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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 3.0


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#211 ice orca

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 06:12 AM

FWIW - John Shannon on Hockey Central today claiming that he thinks there is a deal in place between the Canucks and Leafs - just waiting for the CBA to be announced.

I personally don't find him very believable, but he seems to believe himself haha.

Yeah i saw that Shannon seemed pretty conviced there is a deal in place with the Leafs but Kipper said he will go to Florida. Both these guys have been wrong before..a lot.
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#212 sampy

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 08:03 AM

Lu
Raymond
3rd
For
Rielly
Colbourne

Edited by sampy, 18 October 2012 - 07:18 PM.

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#213 Pears

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 08:54 AM

Lu
Raymond
3rd
For
O'Reilly
Colbourne

Ryan O'Reilly does not play for the Leafs.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#214 Tanev

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 12:39 PM

Most likely Reimer is involved, seeing as he was spotted practicing with the some Canucks at UBC.
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#215 elvis15

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 01:37 PM

Either that or he's just here for the practice. It's not like Burke would have already told him he's traded for Luongo so he could come here ahead of time, no deal would be finalized until they know what the new CBA holds.

Edited by elvis15, 18 October 2012 - 01:38 PM.

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#216 ice orca

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 01:59 PM

Most likely Reimer is involved, seeing as he was spotted practicing with the some Canucks at UBC.

Guys on the Leafs board said the reason he is in Vancouver is because his girlfreind is from there..something about visiting her parents.
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#217 elvis15

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 02:24 PM

Guys on the Leafs board said the reason he is in Vancouver is because his girlfreind is from there..something about visiting her parents.

Yup, he's already said he's here visiting family. I believe he even said in-laws.
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Tanev is going to EDM. I can put my life savings down on it

 


#218 RunningWild

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 05:03 PM

http://www.theprovin..._medium=twitter

Just posted in other thread, very interesting read by Botch:

- Says that on top of the teams already interested, Edm made an offer and another 'mystery team'.
- John Shannon apparently said last night that the Leafs/Nucks have an AiP in place to trade Lu once lockout ends. Gillis basically denies those reports.
- Talks about draft day and how Lu almost went to Tor, but 'allegedly' nixed it cause he wanted Fla. Apparently Gillis wanted Gardiner ++. Botch thinks Fla is now out, and Lu understands he won't be going there.

Edited by RunningWild, 18 October 2012 - 05:03 PM.

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#219 Phil_314

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 07:01 PM

Go MG, play that hardball! Really hope Tyler Bozak comes back as part of the deal as well, he'd be great for the 3rd line and can give the team even more depth up the middle (he can make plays, hit, kill penalties and possesses a pretty quick snap shot from right in front)
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#220 sampy

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 07:18 PM

Ryan O'Reilly does not play for the Leafs.


Sorry meant Rielly, the 5th overall pick in 2012. Local boy with lots of offensive upside from the D

Edited by sampy, 18 October 2012 - 07:20 PM.

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#221 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 08:02 PM

Sorry meant Rielly, the 5th overall pick in 2012. Local boy with lots of offensive upside from the D

Canucks aren't going to get any A level prospects for Luongo.
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#222 eretz canucks

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 08:24 PM

In botchfords article, he mentions that gillis wanted Gardiner + and Burke offered ?Schenn and a second? (rumour)
The article goes onto say they may have had a deal almost done - where do u think they met I. The middle? What do u all think was the final package?
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#223 oldnews

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 09:53 PM

Out of curiosity, and if Schenn is such an appalling offer by the Leafs, what are you realistically expecting to get if there is, in fact, a deal in place?


It looks like your Luo vetoed a deal for Schenn theory has pretty clearly been proven wrong - even your source, Botchford, clearly backtracks on that claim/speculation - Burke offered Schenn - Gillis rejected and countered.
I guess you missed the rest of the post you quoted where I clearly said I don't believe Shannon.
First - teams can't cut deals and are prohibited from speaking about players during the lockout. There is no way anyone will get either side to confirm something like Shannon is speculating, and regardless, and AIP would have to wait.
I don't see why Gillis would bother to commit to a deal, when there is still time to accept better offers after the CBA ends and before the season starts.
To repeat - I'm not terribly thrilled by what Toronto has to offer. I also think it is getting clearer that Luongo is not a cap dump, not going to wind up on waivers, and not going for table scraps or Komisarek.
The Cancucks drafted two centers and picked up a top 4 guy since before the draft, so the landscape has changed.
People talk Gardiner. I'm not sold on him as a great fit in the current roster - Hamhuis and Edler on the left side don't leave a great deal of space for Gardiner - and I'm not too impressed with Gardiner's play without the puck. He's also been prematurely overvalued given Leafs nation desperation.
People talk Bozak, their only roster center of any interest - meh, he's a UFA next year.
Colborne might still be an option - I proposed a deal that included him before the draft - but not as a centerpiece.
Frattin could be a wildcard secondary piece- aside from him, the Leafs have nothing else of interest at RW on their roster - he's less than a million cap hit, a couple years left before RFA - not a top 6, but more depth at RW.
Franson as a big right handed depth blueliner to compete for the 6th, 7th spot.
But really, not that compelling.
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#224 oldnews

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 09:59 PM

Canucks aren't going to get any A level prospects for Luongo.


The irony in that comment is that the Leafs offered their former 5th overall - the guy that Burke said he wouldn't move for 10 first round picks...
Anyway, we'll mark your words Future GM.
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#225 Pears

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 10:07 PM

Sorry meant Rielly, the 5th overall pick in 2012. Local boy with lots of offensive upside from the D

I know I'm just playin :P
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#226 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 12:32 AM

The irony in that comment is that the Leafs offered their former 5th overall - the guy that Burke said he wouldn't move for 10 first round picks...
Anyway, we'll mark your words Future GM.

I bet you they won't. Sig bet for a month?

IMO if going to the Leafs it will be something like Franson and another 2 to 4 million dollar player.
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#227 Pears

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 12:36 AM

I bet you they won't. Sig bet for a month?

IMO if going to the Leafs it will be something like Franson and another 2 to 4 million dollar player.

As a few people have said there really isn't a spot for Franson on the Canucks unless Edler, Ballard, or Tanev get traded.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#228 WHL rocks

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 01:26 AM

I bet you they won't. Sig bet for a month?

IMO if going to the Leafs it will be something like Franson and another 2 to 4 million dollar player.


Franson? He signed a full year contract in Europe. He was RFA. I don't see MG trading for a guy's rights just so he can watch him play in Europe.
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#229 King of the ES

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 04:11 AM

To repeat - I'm not terribly thrilled by what Toronto has to offer. I also think it is getting clearer that Luongo is not a cap dump, not going to wind up on waivers, and not going for table scraps or Komisarek.
The Cancucks drafted two centers and picked up a top 4 guy since before the draft, so the landscape has changed.
People talk Gardiner. I'm not sold on him as a great fit in the current roster - Hamhuis and Edler on the left side don't leave a great deal of space for Gardiner - and I'm not too impressed with Gardiner's play without the puck. He's also been prematurely overvalued given Leafs nation desperation.
People talk Bozak, their only roster center of any interest - meh, he's a UFA next year.
Colborne might still be an option - I proposed a deal that included him before the draft - but not as a centerpiece.
Frattin could be a wildcard secondary piece- aside from him, the Leafs have nothing else of interest at RW on their roster - he's less than a million cap hit, a couple years left before RFA - not a top 6, but more depth at RW.
Franson as a big right handed depth blueliner to compete for the 6th, 7th spot.
But really, not that compelling.


What do you know, we now have a few points of agreement.

Like you, I am NOT sold on Gardiner, either. Overvalued is correct. I'd probably have taken Schenn, instead, so I hope Gillis was/is asking for a lot more than Gardiner, if he actually rejected Schenn.

Joe Colbourne is a 6'5" C, so people automatically assume that he's got "Lindros" potential. Not buying it. No way should he be anything more than an ancillary part of the deal.

Cody Franson is done with the Toronto Maple Leafs. I believe he is staying in Europe this year, no matter what happens with the NHL - he's signed a 1-year deal over there. So I believe he's actually a UFA already in 2013.

The only guy on Toronto that I might be interested in (besides the obvious one of Dion) is Bozak. I like the way Bozak plays, and he could be a long-term solution on the 3rd line. I also do sort of like the idea/thought of Kadri, except that we also already have Schroeder, who I think has a chance to be very good. One guy that I specifically do not want, who has been discussed, is Carl Gunnarsson. Yuck.
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#230 TmanVan

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 06:36 AM

Reimer, Ashton, and a first for Luongo, Raymond, and a second.

If they reject, just offer to swap first round picks instead of giving them the second knowing their pick will likely be 8-12 spots higher, and just get this thing over with
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#231 Jake's_Dad

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 06:58 AM

Last
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-formerly known as macvic24

#232 Lonny_Bohonos_14

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 09:01 AM

Darren Dreger@DarrenDreger
Unsurprisingly, based on my earlier tweet, Canucks gm Mike Gillis says all rumors of Luongo to the Leafs are "untrue".
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#233 King of the ES

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 10:04 AM

Darren Dreger@DarrenDreger
Unsurprisingly, based on my earlier tweet, Canucks gm Mike Gillis says all rumors of Luongo to the Leafs are "untrue".


But Gillis isn't "lieing" here, he's stating a fact that he hasn't yet been formally traded.

Where there's smoke, though, there's usually fire, and it's looking like Toronto will be Louie's next home. Someone earlier referenced Reimer coming back - no. That'd be stupid. We need a veteran, clear, obvious backup.
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#234 Provost

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 10:36 AM

It is almost certain that nothing is decided yet, as Gillis said on 1040 recently... he needs to see what the CBA landscape looks like before weighing his options.

If the NHL (Burke) suggested clause about punishing teams for long term contracts actually takes hold, then Luongo will remain a Canuck. There is virtually no circumstance that would make NOT having him on the team but still paying his cap hit better than having him playing for us.

On the other side, if the above clause isn't include BUT the clause where a team can choose to either keep 50% of the cap hit or 50% of salary in a trade... it would make Gillis look like a genius for waiting. All sorts of options open up all of a sudden:

Eg.

To Tampa Bay:
Luongo (we continue pay half his salary, but TB gets his whole cap hit)

To Vancouver:
Lecavalier (we pay his whole salary but only take on half the cap hit)

Who doesn't want Lecavalier if he is only costing you a $3.85 million cap hit?

Or:

To Florida:
Luongo (we pay half the salary, but Florida gets his whole cap hit
Hansen

To Vancouver:
Upshall (we pay his whole salary but only half his cap hit)
Bjugstad
Theodore

All of a sudden Upshall is a pretty good player for us at a $1.75 million cap hit. Florida upgrades their goaltending and only pays chump change in terms of real dollars.

This is just an example of how much the trade landscape can change depending on the CBA deal.

Edited by Provost, 19 October 2012 - 11:17 AM.

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#235 elvis15

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 10:51 AM

If (and that's a big if) we traded with the Leafs, Scrivens would go back to the AHL, and Reimer would be the backup. We wouldn't be looking for either particularly in a trade as our young goaltending prospects are the main strength of the organization. We'd look for picks, prospects, roster forwards/defencemen, those sorts of things in return if a solid, cheap, veteran goalie isn't an option.

Gillis is saying the Leafs rumours are untrue, in part because he has to and in part because they probably are. I've never heard a GM say anything while a trade negotiation is ongoing (or more particularly when they aren't due to a lockout preventing such discussions) apart from the usual platitudes: "We've had discussions, we're exploring our options, we'd approached a few teams, a few teams have approached us, etc."

I'm not saying they don't have the possibility of a deal, but to have something just sitting there awaiting the signing of a new CBA is far-fetched. The new CBA might have a clause that would change the value of a deal, or ruin it altogether.

Luongo has been rumoured to the Leafs before, but that was when they still had Francois Allaire as their goalie coach, who has worked with Luongo extensively in the past. Allaire's no longer there, so less incentive for Luongo to want to be a Leaf. He may still want to go there to be closer to Montreal, and it gives him a good chance to be a starter without a superstar prospect coming to supplant him (like in Florida), but it's still a losing team in a high-profile market.
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Tanev is going to EDM. I can put my life savings down on it

 


#236 King of the ES

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 01:36 PM

Luongo has been rumoured to the Leafs before, but that was when they still had Francois Allaire as their goalie coach, who has worked with Luongo extensively in the past. Allaire's no longer there, so less incentive for Luongo to want to be a Leaf. He may still want to go there to be closer to Montreal, and it gives him a good chance to be a starter without a superstar prospect coming to supplant him (like in Florida), but it's still a losing team in a high-profile market.


Even though I used to think that Luongo holds all the power in this, he actually doesn't.

The one trump card that Gillis has in all this is WAIVERS; and if Lu goes to waivers, guess where he'll end up; Columbus. That's why he would waive to go to Toronto, probably, unless he'd actually rather end up a Blue Jacket (maybe just to spite Gillis, if trade talks ever got ugly - unlikely, IMO).

So while Toronto's obviously not his first choice, it's probably not his last, either, which is why he wouldn't have much of a choice but to accept it.
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#237 elvis15

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 02:23 PM

Why on earth would Gillis put him on waivers and lose him for nothing? That's one of the stupidest ideas I've heard.

Gillis: "If you don't accept this trade to Toronto, I'll put you on waivers. Maybe Columbus would like to pick you up?"

Luongo: "I call your bluff. You'd never put me on waivers and lose me for nothing."
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Tanev is going to EDM. I can put my life savings down on it

 


#238 playboi19

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 02:26 PM

Luongo and Tanev

for

Horcoff and Justin Schultz :bigblush:
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#239 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 03:05 PM

Not that I necessarily buy into what John Shannon claims, but there are a few leaf prospects that I wouldn't mind seeing come here, provided the overall package is what luongo is worth.

Ashton, Colborne and Rielly (although, I doubt he's on the table) have all been mentioned, but also worth a look would be Tyler Biggs, Marcel Mueller and Andrew Crescenzi. There's also a couple of 4th round defenders with size, that are right-handed shots in Petter Granberg (Swe) and Korbinian Holzer (Ger).
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#240 Provost

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 03:17 PM

Why on earth would Gillis put him on waivers and lose him for nothing? That's one of the stupidest ideas I've heard.

Gillis: "If you don't accept this trade to Toronto, I'll put you on waivers. Maybe Columbus would like to pick you up?"

Luongo: "I call your bluff. You'd never put me on waivers and lose me for nothing."


If the offers are as being reported... with Burke willing to give even less now than in July, we would be better off waiving him. There are thoughts coming out of Toronto that Luongo has negative value and not only do we not get a decent piece back... we have to take on some of their overpaid crap in return for the Leafs doing us the favour of taking one of the top 10 goalies on the planet off our hands.
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