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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 3.0


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#2581 oldnews

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 09:50 PM

Please, you are reaching. Somehow I don't think that a single NHL player will have any hesitation about going into a corner with Steven Stamkos hot on his tail.

Stamkos is a better player. Yes. But he's clearly not doing much besides providing offense, given Tampa's inability to make the playoffs. And again, I'll ask if John Tavares is part of the problem in Long Island, like you claim that Phil Kessel is in Toronto. Waiting for your answer on that one.


You need to let go of your Stamkos claims - you are simply wrong.

And what are you talking about regarding John Tavares? You are clearly missing the point. Tavares was -6 last year - there were only 4 regulars on the Islanders with a better +/-. Jurcina was -34, Steit -27, Reasoner -25, Neiderreiter -29, ten other players were between -19 and -10. You seem to be stuck on some point that a player's performance is judged by whether they get their team in the playoffs or not - which is ridiculous and off topic. Are we going to start questioning Jordan Eberle because the OIl have yet to make the playoffs in his career? Nonsense, and nowhere near the issue. Stamkos and Tavares were 2nd and 5th on their teams in +/-, the relative to their team-mates part being the element that eliminates your sidestep that this is a "team stat". Again, Kessel 20th, 29th, 20th - on the Leafs. Only a noob would expect a player to single-handedly deliver a playoff birth - it can't be expected of Tavares, Stamkos, and it sure as hell can't be expected of Kessel.

Edited by oldnews, 15 December 2012 - 11:06 PM.

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#2582 smurf47

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 11:11 PM

Please, you are reaching. Somehow I don't think that a single NHL player will have any hesitation about going into a corner with Steven Stamkos hot on his tail.

Stamkos is a better player. Yes. But he's clearly not doing much besides providing offense, given Tampa's inability to make the playoffs. And again, I'll ask if John Tavares is part of the problem in Long Island, like you claim that Phil Kessel is in Toronto. Waiting for your answer on that one.

Please, you are reaching. Somehow I don't think that a single NHL player will have any hesitation about going into a corner with Steven Stamkos hot on his tail.

Stamkos is a better player. Yes. But he's clearly not doing much besides providing offense, given Tampa's inability to make the playoffs. And again, I'll ask if John Tavares is part of the problem in Long Island, like you claim that Phil Kessel is in Toronto. Waiting for your answer on that one.

Dear Santa, Please give the King of the ES a life...because he spends way too much time here !!
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#2583 sampy

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 11:53 PM

Thoughts on this trade:

To Det:
Kesler, Lu, Ballard, 3rd

To Van:
Howard, Datsyuk and Filppulla

Kesler => Datsyuk. Datsyuk is a better player now but not by my much. Kesler is also 6 years younger and a Michigan boy.
Lu, Ballard, 3rd =< Howard, Filppulla.

To TO:
Howard, Sauve, Archibald, Alberts, 2nd

To Van:
Rielly or Gardiner and rights to Franson

TO gets a young starting goalie, 2 mid prospects, dman depth, a high pick.

Sign Vandermeer, Ellis and Brule

Sedins Burr
Booth Datsyuk Ray/Kass
Higgins Filpp Hansen
Lap Manny Ray/Kass
Brule
Ebbett
Pinz

Ham Bieksa
Edler Franson
Garrison Tanev
Vandermeer
Connaughton

Schneider
Ellis
Lack

Edited by sampy, 15 December 2012 - 11:55 PM.

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#2584 Pears

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 11:56 PM

Thoughts on this trade:

To Det:
Kesler, Lu, Ballard, 3rd

To Van:
Howard, Datsyuk and Filppulla

Kesler => Datsyuk. Datsyuk is a better player now but not by my much. Kesler is also 6 years younger and a Michigan boy.
Lu, Ballard, 3rd =< Howard, Filppulla.

To TO:
Howard, Sauve, Archibald, Alberts, 2nd

To Van:
Rielly or Gardiner and rights to Franson

TO gets a young starting goalie, 2 mid prospects, a high pick.

Sign Vandermeer, Ellis and Brule

Sedins Burr
Booth Datsyuk Ray/Kass
Higgins Filpp Hansen
Lap Manny Ray/Kass
Brule
Ebbett
Pinz

Ham Bieksa
Edler Fransin
Garrison Tanev
Vandermeer
Connaughton

Schneider
Ellis
Lack

As big of a Kesler fan as I am turning down an offer for Datsyuk would be pretty hard to do.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#2585 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 12:02 AM

Thoughts on this trade:

To Det:
Kesler, Lu, Ballard, 3rd

To Van:
Howard, Datsyuk and Filppulla

Kesler => Datsyuk. Datsyuk is a better player now but not by my much. Kesler is also 6 years younger and a Michigan boy.
Lu, Ballard, 3rd =< Howard, Filppulla.

To TO:
Howard, Sauve, Archibald, Alberts, 2nd

To Van:
Rielly or Gardiner and rights to Franson

TO gets a young starting goalie, 2 mid prospects, dman depth, a high pick.

Sign Vandermeer, Ellis and Brule

Sedins Burr
Booth Datsyuk Ray/Kass
Higgins Filpp Hansen
Lap Manny Ray/Kass
Brule
Ebbett
Pinz

Ham Bieksa
Edler Franson
Garrison Tanev
Vandermeer
Connaughton

Schneider
Ellis
Lack


That first one would be declined. Datsyuk is there franchise player and they would probably rather have Howard over Lu anyways, Howard is very very underrated, maybe not that top notch ability Lu has, but he is still really good and consistent.

Then Toronto would probably decline the other one anyways.

I just don't see it.
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#2586 sampy

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 12:10 AM

That first one would be declined. Datsyuk is there franchise player and they would probably rather have Howard over Lu anyways, Howard is very very underrated, maybe not that top notch ability Lu has, but he is still really good and consistent.

Then Toronto would probably decline the other one anyways.

I just don't see it.

Datsyuk is 34 and will be on the decline in the next year or two. Howard has had poor playoffs the last 2 years and still needs to improve.
Thx for not flaming.
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#2587 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 12:23 AM

Datsyuk is 34 and will be on the decline in the next year or two. Howard has had poor playoffs the last 2 years and still needs to improve.
Thx for not flaming.


Lol Np, Flaming isn't my style.

I know Datsyuk is 34, and that's why it makes sense and why I could maybe see them doing it if the deal was modified a bit but I don't think they would do it they way it is, maybe not at all, and personally I think we should hold onto Kesler rather than overpay to get Datsyuk who will age and leave us in a bigger hole in the future than we already will be (Without the Sedins)

As for Howard, the last 2 Playoffs haven't been his fault, 2011 he had a good playoff, Detriot just got beat, this year he wasn't spectacular but not bad either, and I think Nashville was better. Detriot is aging and not as good as they once were, he shouldn't be faulted for that, he is really good.
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#2588 oldnews

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:06 AM

That certainly is a blockbuster!

If you're going that big, I think Detroit is gonna want Edler, in which case it simply becomes a gigantic deal.
I'm not sure there is a lot of need or room to upgrade on Howard, but if he is dealt, I don't think it woud be necessary to add four pieces to land Gardiner or Reilly - Howard is a legit starter in the top half of his class - if anything, he's worth than one of those guys straight up.
It's certainly an ambitious proposal.
Filpulla and Howard are both UFAs and due for significant raises.
My preference would be to simplify it...

To Van:
Brendan Smith, Darren Helm, Matt Frattin

To Detroit
Luo, Gardiner

To Toronto
Howard
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#2589 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 03:05 AM

Detroit has never sold out their veterans; even though scoring a younger home town boy is compelling. The proposal is fun conversation! :) . But Datsyuk, called by some the best pure talent in the league (he can dangle like no other) and is still a defensive force, is one of few who are clearly better than Kesler.

In fact they have done a better job than anyone in memory extending their careers, managing their roles and still finding some sizzle still left in their skills ; see Lidstrom, Yzerman, Chelios, Larry Murphy, Bertuzzi...

Thoughts on this trade:

To Det:
Kesler, Lu, Ballard, 3rd

To Van:
Howard, Datsyuk and Filppulla

Kesler => Datsyuk. Datsyuk is a better player now but not by my much. Kesler is also 6 years younger and a Michigan boy.
Lu, Ballard, 3rd =< Howard, Filppulla.

To TO:
Howard, Sauve, Archibald, Alberts, 2nd

To Van:
Rielly or Gardiner and rights to Franson

TO gets a young starting goalie, 2 mid prospects, dman depth, a high pick.

Sign Vandermeer, Ellis and Brule

Sedins Burr
Booth Datsyuk Ray/Kass
Higgins Filpp Hansen
Lap Manny Ray/Kass
Brule
Ebbett
Pinz

Ham Bieksa
Edler Franson
Garrison Tanev
Vandermeer
Connaughton

Schneider
Ellis
Lack


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#2590 Gollumpus

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 04:41 AM

To Det:
Kesler, Lu, Ballard, 3rd

To Van:
Howard, Datsyuk and Filppulla

Kesler => Datsyuk. Datsyuk is a better player now but not by my much. Kesler is also 6 years younger and a Michigan boy.
Lu, Ballard, 3rd =< Howard, Filppulla.


I think Detroit would take this deal and run before there could be any kind of video review. :P

The Wings get a lot better in goal, and while there may be some concerns in Detroit about the length of Luongo's deal (etc), the Wings get a lot better in goal. And did I mention that there'd be a marked improvement in their goaltending? And yes, I know Howard is a good goalie.

Datsyuk is 5 - 6 years older than Kesler, and he would have only one year remaining on his current deal after this season (assuming there is a season). Maybe he signs a new deal, or maybe he doesn't. If he did want to re-sign here, could the Canucks afford him? And if they did, he would be over 35 years old by that time (assuming 35+ contracts are still an issue in the new CBA).

Filppula will be a UFA at the end of this season. Maybe he signs here, or maybe he goes back to Detroit.

Potentially, this deal would be: one year of Datsyuk for Luongo, Kesler, Ballard and a pick.

I'd say this was an overpayment by the Canucks and Gillis would not do this trade.


To TO:
Howard, Sauve, Archibald, Alberts, 2nd

To Van:
Rielly or Gardiner and rights to Franson

TO gets a young starting goalie, 2 mid prospects, dman depth, a high pick.


I don't see Burke doing this deal. This is a huge underpayment by the Canucks, but as it is screwing the Leafs I'm okay with it. :)

I suspect that if Gillis offered the assets from the first deal for the return from the second deal then Burke might show some interest, but he would also want to pass back some cap, and/or maybe take Ballard out of the deal.

Some might argue that Howard has more value than Franson, and the rest of the assets (other than maybe the pick) aren't worth all that much. Sauve might become a bottom pairing d-man (if there are better assessments of his ceiliing I wouldn't mind seeing them). Archibald might have a ceiling of perhaps being a 4th liner, but the Leafs already have a stock of their own prospects who could fit that role.


regards,
G.

Edited by Gollumpus, 16 December 2012 - 04:46 AM.

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Following the Canucks since before Don Cherry played here.

#2591 higgyfan

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 09:42 AM

Derp.

I must have missed the 2012 Olympic hockey.

Here was Team Canada's blueline in the 2010 Olympics:

  • Scott Niedermayer, 36 (Anaheim Ducks)
  • Chris Pronger, 35 (Philadelphia Flyers)
  • Shea Weber, 24 (Nashville Predators)
  • Drew Doughty, 20 (Los Angeles Kings)
  • Duncan Keith 26 (Chicago Blackhawks)
  • Dan Boyle, 33 (San Jose Sharks)
  • Brent Seabrook, 24 (Chicago Blackhawks)
Which one of those guys is named Dion Phaneuf?
Right.

In other words the Canucks are not getting back two Olympians - and I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that Phaneuf will not be making Canada's Olympic team anytime soon. Our #1 on the other hand is a far better bet.
So we send the Olympic gold goaltender their way - and a defenseman who (another limb) will be playing on Sweden's next Olympic blueline - and a couple roster players, and a couple first round picks... forget it. Noob much? Noobs tend to buy Laffs hype about their "stars".
Spare me the Edler is a UFA line - have a look at what Boston paid for the aging UFA/rental Kaberle and have a rethink of Edler's trade value - assuming he is not signed here after the lockout, in which case this deal looks downright horrible.

Luongo, Edler, Ballard, Raymond, 1st, 1st (ie Jensen and Gaunce) - not much of a price to pay at all LOL.


Do you always use name calling as a tactic? Whatever.

Lets look at trade value...
Kessel > Luongo There are more teams that would want Kessel
Phaneuf < Edler His being a UFA lowers his value significantly
Kadri > low 1st round pick
Reilly >low 1st round pick + Ballard
Raymond>nothing

Ever wonder why every Nuck fan puts Raymond and Ballard in their trade proposals? I still think Van wins this one.

Carry on with your name calling...
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#2592 WiDeN

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 09:55 AM

The issue is that we would not improve in that trade. It's not that the values are more or less equal, it's that what we get back would not put us over the top for next year, or the year after.
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#2593 higgyfan

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:15 AM

The issue is that we would not improve in that trade. It's not that the values are more or less equal, it's that what we get back would not put us over the top for next year, or the year after.


I guess I'm not getting my point across. I don't particularly want those Leaf players (except maybe Reilly). I am speculating that we could in turn trade those players. I think those Leaf players would get a better trade than the listed Nuck players.
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#2594 sampy

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:20 AM

The issue is that we would not improve in that trade. It's not that the values are more or less equal, it's that what we get back would not put us over the top for next year, or the year after.

True. I just really like Datsyuk and I'm not the biggest fan of all the drama Kesler brings.
The Canucks NEED an offensive dman as they don't have any in the lineup or in the prospects pool. The Canucks have plenty of forward prospects trying out for very few positions, Lack and Cannata look to be good goalie prospects and a couple dman prospects that may be good journeyman but no offensive dman. It is obvious to everyone in the hockey world that Burke desperately needs a goalie and Burke is quoted as saying his teams are built from the goalie out. MG should be asking for Gardiner or Rielly and if Burke doesn't want to pony up then make a deal with another team.
My ideal trade would be:
Lu, mid prospect, draft pick
For
Gardiner/Rielly and Connolly/Bozak
If Biggs or Kadri could be had in a bigger trade great, but Gardiner or Rielly is who the Canucks really need.
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#2595 WiDeN

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:30 AM

Reilly shouldn't be a maybe on anyone's list. The kid is amazing.

I was actually responding to Higgyfan, not you sampy.

I am not a huge fan of a trade with Toronto, because unless they decide to trade us some awesome prospects (Reilly/Khadri), then I don't see us improving. We need one or two guys in return for Lu that can make an impact now.
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#2596 King of the ES

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 11:25 AM

My ideal trade would be:
Lu, mid prospect, draft pick
For
Gardiner/Rielly and Connolly/Bozak


And mine would be Sidney Crosby, but "ideal" is not associated in any way with "likely".
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#2597 oldnews

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 12:33 PM

Your hate for the Leafs is shining through buddy. But so is your ignorance.

Fan boy much?
home fanboy.


Do you always use name calling as a tactic? Whatever.

Carry on with your name calling...


Ironing.
You initiated this conversation with "buddy" - "ignorance" -and then followed that up with "fanboy much?". Apparently you expect to talk this kind of shat and hear nothing in kind.
Your 'sensitivity' around my response - "noob much?" - is noted - as is the fact that you are doing an about-face and all of a sudden are taking the 'high road' against name calling. Pardon me if I don't apologize at this point - you're hardly the victim of name-calling here.

Edited by oldnews, 16 December 2012 - 12:56 PM.

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#2598 WiDeN

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 12:44 PM

You initiated this conversation with "buddy" - "ignorance" -and then "fanboy" - and here you are taking a 180 and the 'high road' against name calling.
Carry on - your 'conversation' - with someone else.

Typing with a foot in your mouth is pretty easy.
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#2599 oldnews

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 01:13 PM

True. I just really like Datsyuk and I'm not the biggest fan of all the drama Kesler brings.
The Canucks NEED an offensive dman as they don't have any in the lineup or in the prospects pool. The Canucks have plenty of forward prospects trying out for very few positions, Lack and Cannata look to be good goalie prospects and a couple dman prospects that may be good journeyman but no offensive dman. It is obvious to everyone in the hockey world that Burke desperately needs a goalie and Burke is quoted as saying his teams are built from the goalie out. MG should be asking for Gardiner or Rielly and if Burke doesn't want to pony up then make a deal with another team.
My ideal trade would be:
Lu, mid prospect, draft pick
For
Gardiner/Rielly and Connolly/Bozak
If Biggs or Kadri could be had in a bigger trade great, but Gardiner or Rielly is who the Canucks really need.


I don't think your Detroit proposal was far off in value exchanged.
I also don't think they'd want to move their top two centers - and I'm also fairly certain they would gun hard for Edler.
I'm also don't see Filpulla as a third line center.
I'm not keen on trading Kesler for a guy 6 years older, even if Datsyuk is currently the player he is - I think you balanced values well there, but I think the Canucks aim is to remain younger.
I think the second proposal is a large overpayment for Gardiner - he (and Franson's rights) are not worth a top 15 starting goaltender and 4 other pieces imo - Luo alone is worth Gardiner and UFA Bozak (would not be interested in Connolly).
The Canucks do have an offensive defenseman in the prospect pool - Connauton is a 22 yr old who moves the puck very well, is a powerplay qb with a big shot, and a bit of mean streak mixed in - played in the AHL all-star game last year and won the hardest shot competition.
I also think both Edler and Garrison have too much offensive upside to say the Canucks have no offensive defensemen on the roster (and 81 points from the shutdown pairing isn't bad either).

Edited by oldnews, 16 December 2012 - 01:20 PM.

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#2600 smurf47

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 01:46 PM

This loclout has seriuosly hampered the abilty of the Canucks to trade Lou and to get what they feel hes worth ! Another year older, rusty as all get out ! Not a good scenario.
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#2601 TmanVan

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:09 PM

That certainly is a blockbuster!

If you're going that big, I think Detroit is gonna want Edler, in which case it simply becomes a gigantic deal.
I'm not sure there is a lot of need or room to upgrade on Howard, but if he is dealt, I don't think it woud be necessary to add four pieces to land Gardiner or Reilly - Howard is a legit starter in the top half of his class - if anything, he's worth than one of those guys straight up.
It's certainly an ambitious proposal.
Filpulla and Howard are both UFAs and due for significant raises.
My preference would be to simplify it...

To Van:
Brendan Smith, Darren Helm, Matt Frattin

To Detroit
Luo, Gardiner


To Toronto
Howard


Smith, Helm, and Frattin is a decent return for Luongo
Detroit is absolutely thrilled they get Luongo and Gardiner for only Howard, Smith, and Helm
But Toronto...... They have to give up Gardiner and Frattin for Howard? Burkie not Happy!

Edit- Not that Howard is bad, I just think Burkes whole plan is to get a goalie without giving up Reilly or Gardiner, as they are part of his "fast track" rebuild and are needed now and in the immediate future. I think the whole point is to get a goalie while giving up secondary prospects.... which they have alot of.

Edited by TmanVan, 16 December 2012 - 02:17 PM.

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#2602 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:44 PM

That certainly is a blockbuster!

If you're going that big, I think Detroit is gonna want Edler, in which case it simply becomes a gigantic deal.
I'm not sure there is a lot of need or room to upgrade on Howard, but if he is dealt, I don't think it woud be necessary to add four pieces to land Gardiner or Reilly - Howard is a legit starter in the top half of his class - if anything, he's worth than one of those guys straight up.
It's certainly an ambitious proposal.
Filpulla and Howard are both UFAs and due for significant raises.
My preference would be to simplify it...

To Van:
Brendan Smith, Darren Helm, Matt Frattin

To Detroit
Luo, Gardiner

To Toronto
Howard


Not terrible, but I don't think Detriot and Toronto would be on board, Detriot would rather stick with Howard than get Lu, Toronto doesn't wanna give up Gardiner and for us it's all gravy. Even Smith isn't that much worse than Gardiner skill and upside wise, and they love Helm. I see both Detriot and Toronto saying no.
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#2603 Pears

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:51 PM

Not terrible, but I don't think Detriot and Toronto would be on board, Detriot would rather stick with Howard than get Lu, Toronto doesn't wanna give up Gardiner and for us it's all gravy. Even Smith isn't that much worse than Gardiner skill and upside wise, and they love Helm. I see both Detriot and Toronto saying no.

Why would Detroit and Toronto say no? Detroit wins badly in this trade even though they are giving up Helm and Toronto upgrades big time in net.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

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#2604 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:53 PM

Why would Detroit and Toronto say no? Detroit wins badly in this trade even though they are giving up Helm and Toronto upgrades big time in net.


I don't think Detriot wins badly.

Lu for Howard really doesn't interest them enough to pull the trigger and aside from that Smith is really good, he's possibly just as good as Gardiner people in Detriot have been saying and Helm is one of those players teams highly covet.

As for Toronto it's all about Gardiner, They don't wanna give him up, Burke already said that, And Frattin isn't garbage either he could get them something nice, earlier there were rumour of Frattin 2nd for Bernier which shows he's no choppped liver either.

How do you think Detriot wins badly?
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#2605 Pears

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:57 PM

I don't think Detriot wins badly.

Lu for Howard really doesn't interest them enough to pull the trigger and aside from that Smith is really good, he's possibly just as good as Gardiner people in Detriot have been saying and Helm is one of those players teams highly covet.

As for Toronto it's all about Gardiner, They don't wanna give him up, Burke already said that, And Frattin isn't garbage either he could get them something nice, earlier there were rumour of Frattin 2nd for Bernier which shows he's no choppped liver either.

How do you think Detriot wins badly?

They argubaly upgrade in net long term (Howard's contract is up after this year), and they get a young offensive D man which Im sure they would love to have while giving up a good prospect and a great third line center. Maybe they don't win badly, but they definetly win this deal.

Edited by Steven Stamkos' Mullet, 16 December 2012 - 02:57 PM.

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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#2606 oldnews

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 03:02 PM

Smith, Helm, and Frattin is a decent return for Luongo
Detroit is absolutely thrilled they get Luongo and Gardiner for only Howard, Smith, and Helm
But Toronto...... They have to give up Gardiner and Frattin for Howard? Burkie not Happy!

Edit- Not that Howard is bad, I just think Burkes whole plan is to get a goalie without giving up Reilly or Gardiner, as they are part of his "fast track" rebuild and are needed now and in the immediate future. I think the whole point is to get a goalie while giving up secondary prospects.... which they have alot of.


Detroit may get Lu and Gardiner, but they have given up Smith - who is not a B prospect by any stretch of the imagination, Helm who is an excellent third line center, and Howard, a young, experienced, legitiimate starter with some very good numbers to show for it. They are giving up their share of value.

I think there has been a tendency in these past few pages to significantly undervalue Howard. I am going against the grain here - Gardiner is a quality young player/prospect, but he is not as valuable as hyped. They retain Reilly, who as far as I'm concerned will make them forget about Gardiner.

Toronto may not want to give up a decent young player but they are pipe-dreaming if they think they are going to land a goaltender in the top half of the starting field by only giving up B assets and throwing cap dumps in to boot. They'll get what they pay for - and if they want to land a goaltender for Komisarek and a spare part, Byrzgalov might be on the market.

I like the deal and think it's reasonable - the Canucks get a prospect blueliner, a young RW, and a third line center.
Detroit doesn't win as significantly as suggested. Aside from Smith and Howard, Helm is a very speedy, aggressive, hard working third line center who, while he may not light up the scoresheet, makes a lot of good things happen - I would love to see this guy between Higgins and Hansen.

Edited by oldnews, 16 December 2012 - 03:08 PM.

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#2607 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 03:03 PM

They argubaly upgrade in net long term (Howard's contract is up after this year), and they get a young offensive D man which Im sure they would love to have while giving up a good prospect and a great third line center. Maybe they don't win badly, but they definetly win this deal.


Smith isn't a prospect anymore, and alot of people think he has just as high upside as Gardiner, I don't see anyway Howard doesn't re-sign, and really I don't think they see Lu as an upgrade at all. The Helm is one of those players you don't like to give up unless you get a huge overpayment.
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#2608 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 03:07 PM

Detroit may get Lu and Gardiner, but they have given up Smith - who is not a B prospect by any stretch of the imagination, Helm who is an excellent third line center, and Howard, a young, experienced, legitiimate starter with some very good numbers to show for it.


Exactly Smith is up there in Gardiner's class, so really that's not much of an upgrade, Howard is really good and consistent, really carries that team when they struggle, he's probably the main reason they have been able to finish so high with such an aging core.

I think there has been a tendency in these past few pages to significantly undervalue him. I am going against the grain here - Gardiner is a quality young player/prospect, but his is not as valuable as hyped.

Toronto may not want to give up a decent young player but they are pipe-dreaming if they think they are going to land a goaltender in the top half of the starting field by only giving up B assets and throwing cap dumps in to boot. They'll get what they pay for - and if they want to land a goaltender for Komisarek, Byrzgalov might be on the market.

I like the deal and think it's reasonable - the Canucks get a prospect blueliner, a young RW, and a third line center.
Detroit doesn't win as significantly as suggested. Aside from Smith and Howard, Helm is a very speedy, aggressive, hard working third line center who, while he may not light up the scoresheet, makes a lot of good things happen - I would love to see this guy between Higgins and Hansen.


I don't even think Detriot would do it and Burke has his head so far into Leaf-la-la land that he thnk Gardiner is the 2nd coming of Brian Leetch so he would never move him.
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#2609 oldnews

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 03:18 PM

Detroit is not as wary as Toronto is of long term contracts.
They have Zetteburg, Franzen, and Kronwall signed til 2021, 2020, 2019...
In Howard Toronto gets a guy they can sign to a term they are comfortable with - they might be able to agree to terms with Howard as part of the deal.
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#2610 oldnews

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 03:23 PM

Burke has his head so far into Leaf-la-la land that he thnk Gardiner is the 2nd coming of Brian Leetch so he would never move him.


I think I've heard this song before however... the one that goes like this - Burke would never trade Schenn, not for 10 1st round picks...
They can keep their Gardiner if they are so obstinate - the problem being that he'll be playing in front of the young goaltenders the Leafs have conceded they do not want to move forward with - they showed their cards - they want a veteran.
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