Jump to content

Welcome to canucks.com Vancouver Canucks homepage

Photo

[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 3.0


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
3002 replies to this topic

#2611 Trelane42

Trelane42

    Comets Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 435 posts
  • Joined: 08-July 10

Posted 16 December 2012 - 03:25 PM

On a tangentially related note the Blue Jays have traded for a veteran all star pitcher for what is being reported as possibly two of their best prospects to the Mets. Particulars are still unknown as the deal is contingent on Jays being able to extend Dickey (the pitcher with 1 more year on his current deal) by two or more years. Suffice to say Jay fans are having quite the fit and much of the baseball world agrees, viewing the return as somewhat heavy, but their GM is going for all the marbles this year.

The pitcher is 38 but in baseball years he’s viewed as 33-34 on account of being a knuckleballer. The prospect(s) rumored to be going to NY are, in hockey terms, of the Rilley, Bjugstead or Gardiner type. One is a rated as top 10 in all of MLB.

The parallels with Luango are intriguing. Assuming the CBA gets settled and Lou type contracts are either grandfathered or a buyout is allowed as an option at some point; really, any outcome other than the new team being stuck with the cap irrespective of the player’s active/retirement status, the 5.3 cap makes the contract golden for whoever acquires him.

Note to Gillis: keep reaching for those stars. Don’t be like GM Sutter and trade away a star player for scraps or 2nd rate prospects. Burkie is no Anthopolous but he too, in his own way, is going for it in trying for a playoff spot.

Also first round picks outside the lottery are overrated. Nothing should be off the table.
  • 0

#2612 sampy

sampy

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,069 posts
  • Joined: 05-May 07

Posted 16 December 2012 - 03:29 PM

I don't think your Detroit proposal was far off in value exchanged.
I also don't think they'd want to move their top two centers - and I'm also fairly certain they would gun hard for Edler.
I'm also don't see Filpulla as a third line center.
I'm not keen on trading Kesler for a guy 6 years older, even if Datsyuk is currently the player he is - I think you balanced values well there, but I think the Canucks aim is to remain younger.
I think the second proposal is a large overpayment for Gardiner - he (and Franson's rights) are not worth a top 15 starting goaltender and 4 other pieces imo - Luo alone is worth Gardiner and UFA Bozak (would not be interested in Connolly).
The Canucks do have an offensive defenseman in the prospect pool - Connauton is a 22 yr old who moves the puck very well, is a powerplay qb with a big shot, and a bit of mean streak mixed in - played in the AHL all-star game last year and won the hardest shot competition.
I also think both Edler and Garrison have too much offensive upside to say the Canucks have no offensive defensemen on the roster (and 81 points from the shutdown pairing isn't bad either).

Connaughton, Edler and Garrison are offensive but they are not true offensive dmen. I am talking about players who can carry the puck, controls the play, runs a PP. Players like Karlsson, Green, Letang, etc..
  • 0

#2613 sampy

sampy

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,069 posts
  • Joined: 05-May 07

Posted 16 December 2012 - 03:32 PM

On a tangentially related note the Blue Jays have traded for a veteran all star pitcher for what is being reported as possibly two of their best prospects to the Mets. Particulars are still unknown as the deal is contingent on Jays being able to extend Dickey (the pitcher with 1 more year on his current deal) by two or more years. Suffice to say Jay fans are having quite the fit and much of the baseball world agrees, viewing the return as somewhat heavy, but their GM is going for all the marbles this year.

The pitcher is 38 but in baseball years heís viewed as 33-34 on account of being a knuckleballer. The prospect(s) rumored to be going to NY are, in hockey terms, of the Rilley, Bjugstead or Gardiner type. One is a rated as top 10 in all of MLB.

The parallels with Luango are intriguing. Assuming the CBA gets settled and Lou type contracts are either grandfathered or a buyout is allowed as an option at some point; really, any outcome other than the new team being stuck with the cap irrespective of the playerís active/retirement status, the 5.3 cap makes the contract golden for whoever acquires him.

Note to Gillis: keep reaching for those stars. Donít be like GM Sutter and trade away a star player for scraps or 2nd rate prospects. Burkie is no Anthopolous but he too, in his own way, is going for it in trying for a playoff spot.

Also first round picks outside the lottery are overrated. Nothing should be off the table.

Good post, comparaison and insight. Burke is running out of time. Canucks have a lot of 2nd rate players and prospects. If Burke wants an All Star goalie, MG needs to make him pay. Rielly or Gardiner needs to be apart of a trade.

Edited by sampy, 16 December 2012 - 03:33 PM.

  • 0

#2614 oldnews

oldnews

    Declining Grinder

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,000 posts
  • Joined: 30-March 11

Posted 16 December 2012 - 03:38 PM

Connaughton, Edler and Garrison are offensive but they are not true offensive dmen. I am talking about players who can carry the puck, controls the play, runs a PP. Players like Karlsson, Green, Letang, etc..


I hear what you are saying, but Edler was sixth among NHL defensemen last year with 49 points i- if that is not "offensive" enough, then my bad. I realize people here want Weber and Karlsson, but hey, we may just have to 'settle' for Edler, Hamhius, Bieksa, Garrison...
  • 0

#2615 oldnews

oldnews

    Declining Grinder

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,000 posts
  • Joined: 30-March 11

Posted 16 December 2012 - 03:44 PM

On a tangentially related note the Blue Jays have traded for a veteran all star pitcher for what is being reported as possibly two of their best prospects to the Mets. Particulars are still unknown as the deal is contingent on Jays being able to extend Dickey (the pitcher with 1 more year on his current deal) by two or more years. Suffice to say Jay fans are having quite the fit and much of the baseball world agrees, viewing the return as somewhat heavy, but their GM is going for all the marbles this year.

The pitcher is 38 but in baseball years he’s viewed as 33-34 on account of being a knuckleballer. The prospect(s) rumored to be going to NY are, in hockey terms, of the Rilley, Bjugstead or Gardiner type. One is a rated as top 10 in all of MLB.

The parallels with Luango are intriguing. Assuming the CBA gets settled and Lou type contracts are either grandfathered or a buyout is allowed as an option at some point; really, any outcome other than the new team being stuck with the cap irrespective of the player’s active/retirement status, the 5.3 cap makes the contract golden for whoever acquires him.

Note to Gillis: keep reaching for those stars. Don’t be like GM Sutter and trade away a star player for scraps or 2nd rate prospects. Burkie is no Anthopolous but he too, in his own way, is going for it in trying for a playoff spot.

Also first round picks outside the lottery are overrated. Nothing should be off the table.


I agree with you. Veterans cost a premium for a reason - they are proven, known quantities.
Burke has always been reluctant to pay for goaltending. He's always looking to find a Cloutier on the cheap... How has that worked out? The one time he had goaltending, he inherited it - in Anaheim - and no one, including Selanne, Niedermeyer, Pronger, Getzlaf, etc had a bigger hand in that Cup than Giguere.
  • 0

#2616 Smashian Kassian

Smashian Kassian

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,364 posts
  • Joined: 10-June 10

Posted 16 December 2012 - 03:58 PM

I think I've heard this song before however... the one that goes like this - Burke would never trade Schenn, not for 10 1st round picks...
They can keep their Gardiner if they are so obstinate - the problem being that he'll be playing in front of the young goaltenders the Leafs have conceded they do not want to move forward with - they showed their cards - they want a veteran.


This is different though, (And he said he would trade him for 10 first round pick btw)

If Gardiner struggles for 4 years like Schenn did then they will be open to trading him too but right now, like Schenn, he's going nowhere.
  • 0

zackass.png


#2617 TmanVan

TmanVan

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 614 posts
  • Joined: 15-February 11

Posted 16 December 2012 - 04:11 PM

Detroit may get Lu and Gardiner, but they have given up Smith - who is not a B prospect by any stretch of the imagination, Helm who is an excellent third line center, and Howard, a young, experienced, legitiimate starter with some very good numbers to show for it. They are giving up their share of value.

I think there has been a tendency in these past few pages to significantly undervalue Howard. I am going against the grain here - Gardiner is a quality young player/prospect, but he is not as valuable as hyped. They retain Reilly, who as far as I'm concerned will make them forget about Gardiner.

Toronto may not want to give up a decent young player but they are pipe-dreaming if they think they are going to land a goaltender in the top half of the starting field by only giving up B assets and throwing cap dumps in to boot. They'll get what they pay for - and if they want to land a goaltender for Komisarek and a spare part, Byrzgalov might be on the market.

I like the deal and think it's reasonable - the Canucks get a prospect blueliner, a young RW, and a third line center.
Detroit doesn't win as significantly as suggested. Aside from Smith and Howard, Helm is a very speedy, aggressive, hard working third line center who, while he may not light up the scoresheet, makes a lot of good things happen - I would love to see this guy between Higgins and Hansen.


By "B level" prospects I just meant that thhey are not at the top of the list on Toronto's depth chart, but it doesn't necessarily mean their skill is considered B level. They still have the likes of Nazem Kadri, Carter Ashton, Joe Colborne, Matt Finn, Tyler Biggs, Stuart Percy, and of course draft picks. More than enough to get a deal done without moving Reilly or Gardiner.
  • 0

#2618 oldnews

oldnews

    Declining Grinder

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,000 posts
  • Joined: 30-March 11

Posted 16 December 2012 - 04:19 PM

By "B level" prospects I just meant that thhey are not at the top of the list on Toronto's depth chart, but it doesn't necessarily mean their skill is considered B level. They still have the likes of Nazem Kadri, Carter Ashton, Joe Colborne, Matt Finn, Tyler Biggs, Stuart Percy, and of course draft picks. More than enough to get a deal done without moving Reilly or Gardiner.


That's fine if they want to substitute other players for value - the point I was making was more along the lines that Gardiner alone does not have the value of a player like Howard - he's a 17th pick with a good season and 30 points under his belt - he is not Bryan Leetch. It's kind of akin to the idea the Hodgson with a few months in the NHL and 30 points was ready to take minutes from Hank and Kesler - ie slow down. I personally would take a combination of players like Frattin, Biggs, and a pick over Gardiner. But I have heard a lot of nonsense to the effect that Luongo is worth a b roster player and a cap dump like Connolly or Komisarek - nonsense.

Edited by oldnews, 16 December 2012 - 04:26 PM.

  • 0

#2619 Joel Heyman

Joel Heyman

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,674 posts
  • Joined: 07-June 11

Posted 16 December 2012 - 04:32 PM

Lp
  • 0

i44w87.jpgryanroyazzopardi+rolled+a+random+image+p
Blue Team


#2620 Smashian Kassian

Smashian Kassian

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,364 posts
  • Joined: 10-June 10

Posted 16 December 2012 - 04:39 PM

Kadri
Bozak
Biggs or Finn

for

Luongo
(Additional piece possibly)

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 16 December 2012 - 04:40 PM.

  • 0

zackass.png


#2621 TmanVan

TmanVan

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 614 posts
  • Joined: 15-February 11

Posted 16 December 2012 - 04:41 PM

That's fine if they want to substitute other players for value - the point I was making was more along the lines that Gardiner alone does not have the value of a player like Howard - he's a 17th pick with a good season and 30 points under his belt - he is not Bryan Leetch. It's kind of akin to the idea the Hodgson with a few months in the NHL and 30 points was ready to take minutes from Hank and Kesler - ie slow down. I personally would take a combination of players like Frattin, Biggs, and a pick over Gardiner. But I have heard a lot of nonsense to the effect that Luongo is worth a b roster player and a cap dump like Connolly or Komisarek - nonsense.


Yeah .. we"re on the same page. I agree Gardiner alone theoretically shouldn't be able to land Howard, and also that Howard is very underrated, but even so I still think think that Burke wouldn't want to move him regardless ( even if he knows he isn't Paul Coffey or Brian Leetch)

The original 3 way trade you proposed would be awesome just in the fact that it rarely happens, and it would be a good way to end a lockout and build excitement for the season. ( If Burke could get on board of course) B)
  • 0

#2622 sampy

sampy

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,069 posts
  • Joined: 05-May 07

Posted 16 December 2012 - 04:45 PM

I hear what you are saying, but Edler was sixth among NHL defensemen last year with 49 points i- if that is not "offensive" enough, then my bad. I realize people here want Weber and Karlsson, but hey, we may just have to 'settle' for Edler, Hamhius, Bieksa, Garrison...

Edler also plays the PP with the two best passers in the game. Canucks need a fast, smooth, agile dman who can break through the neutral zone with control. Edler and Weber are very good All Star dmen, IMO Canucks need an elite mobile offensive dman. Ehrhoff flourished with the Canucks, an elite dman would push the team over. Bring back Lumme, haha.
  • 0

#2623 oldnews

oldnews

    Declining Grinder

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,000 posts
  • Joined: 30-March 11

Posted 16 December 2012 - 06:03 PM

Edler also plays the PP with the two best passers in the game. Canucks need a fast, smooth, agile dman who can break through the neutral zone with control. Edler and Weber are very good All Star dmen, IMO Canucks need an elite mobile offensive dman. Ehrhoff flourished with the Canucks, an elite dman would push the team over. Bring back Lumme, haha.


Oh man would that be nice! Jyrki on this version of the Canucks - deadly dangerous! Best D dangler ever!
  • 0

#2624 D-Money

D-Money

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,156 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06

Posted 16 December 2012 - 07:29 PM

I would love him but I doubt it would ever happen, like you I would put him on 2nd sometimes then use him on the PP. (Imagine Sedin's cycle game plus his clapper at the point, they could pass it around, get him wide open then feed it to him.)

I don't think they would move him, but since you think it might be possible what do you think it will take?


Like I said, the reason why Kovalchuk could be conceivably available is money, and money only. The Devils made it to the finals last season, and still reported a loss. They are bleeding money with a new rink to pay for.

With that in mind, here's Kovalchuk's salary structure:

2010-11 $6,000,000
2011-12 $6,000,000
2012-13 $11,000,000
2013-14 $11,300,000
2014-15 $11,300,000
2015-16 $11,600,000
2016-17 $11,800,000
2017-18 $10,000,000
2018-19 $7,000,000
2019-20 $4,000,000
2020-21 $1,000,000...

Kovalchuk's salary is set to jump to 11 million per. Can the Devils afford him? Perhaps, if the owners get enough of a scale back in the next CBA. But perhaps not...

Prior to the Devils letting Parise walk and re-signing Brodeur, I suggested a Luongo + high pick/prospect for Kovalchuk deal. However, now that Parise is gone and Brodeur is there until 2014, it's a lot less likely.

Edited by D-Money, 16 December 2012 - 07:33 PM.

  • 0
Posted Image

#2625 Smashian Kassian

Smashian Kassian

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,364 posts
  • Joined: 10-June 10

Posted 16 December 2012 - 07:31 PM

Like I said, the reason why Kovalchuk could be conceivably available is money, and money only. The Devils made it to the finals last season, and still reported a loss. They are bleeding money with a new rink to pay for.

With that in mind, here's Kovalchuk's salary structure:

2010-11 $6,000,000 $6,000,000 $0 $0 $6,666,667 2011-12 $6,000,000 $6,000,000 $0 $0 $6,666,667 2012-13 $11,000,000 $11,000,000 $0 $0 $6,666,667 2013-14 $11,300,000 $11,300,000 $0 $0 $6,666,667 2014-15 $11,300,000 $11,300,000 $0 $0 $6,666,667 2015-16 $11,600,000 $11,600,000 $0 $0 $6,666,667 2016-17 $11,800,000 $11,800,000 $0 $0 $6,666,667 2017-18 $10,000,000 $10,000,000 $0 $0 $6,666,667 2018-19 $7,000,000 $7,000,000 $0 $0 $6,666,667 2019-20 $4,000,000 $4,000,000 $0 $0 $6,666,667 2020-21 $1,000,000 $1,000,000 $0 $0 $6,666,667 2021-22 $1,000,000 $1,000,000 $0 $0 $6,666,667 2022-23 $1,000,000 $1,000,000 $0 $0 $6,666,667 2023-24 $3,000,000 $3,000,000 $0 $0 $6,666,667 2024-25 $4,000,000 $4,000,000 $0 $0 $6,666,667

Kovalchuk's salary is set to jump to 11 million per. Can they afford him? Perhaps, if the owners get enough of a scale back. But perhaps not...

Prior to the Devils letting Parise walk and re-signing Brodeur, I suggested a Luongo + high pick/prospect for Kovalchuk deal. However, now that Parise is gone and Brodeur is there until 2014, it's a lot less likely.


I see your point, I would love to get him. Huge fan, but I don't see anyways it could happen.
  • 0

zackass.png


#2626 Canucks_Hockey_101

Canucks_Hockey_101

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,195 posts
  • Joined: 05-November 12

Posted 16 December 2012 - 07:43 PM

Dear Santa, Please give the King of the ES a life...because he spends way too much time here !!


The technicality of goaltending.
  • 0

#2627 smurf47

smurf47

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,948 posts
  • Joined: 01-April 10

Posted 16 December 2012 - 08:57 PM

Like I said, the reason why Kovalchuk could be conceivably available is money, and money only. The Devils made it to the finals last season, and still reported a loss. They are bleeding money with a new rink to pay for.

With that in mind, here's Kovalchuk's salary structure:

2010-11 $6,000,000
2011-12 $6,000,000
2012-13 $11,000,000
2013-14 $11,300,000
2014-15 $11,300,000
2015-16 $11,600,000
2016-17 $11,800,000
2017-18 $10,000,000
2018-19 $7,000,000
2019-20 $4,000,000
2020-21 $1,000,000...

Kovalchuk's salary is set to jump to 11 million per. Can the Devils afford him? Perhaps, if the owners get enough of a scale back in the next CBA. But perhaps not...

Prior to the Devils letting Parise walk and re-signing Brodeur, I suggested a Luongo + high pick/prospect for Kovalchuk deal. However, now that Parise is gone and Brodeur is there until 2014, it's a lot less likely.

I doubt MG would pay that kind of money for anyone !
  • 0

#2628 King of the ES

King of the ES

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,272 posts
  • Joined: 27-May 12

Posted 16 December 2012 - 09:27 PM

Good post, comparaison and insight. Burke is running out of time. Canucks have a lot of 2nd rate players and prospects. If Burke wants an All Star goalie, MG needs to make him pay. Rielly or Gardiner needs to be apart of a trade.


Unfortunately, Brian Burke isn't stupid. He's aware - like the rest of the world is - that the Canucks need to get rid of Luongo. That is obvious. He also is aware that there are very few realistic buyers.

Gillis really can't afford to "hold out", because of the above two fundamental market principles.
  • 0

#2629 smurf47

smurf47

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,948 posts
  • Joined: 01-April 10

Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:09 PM

Unfortunately, Brian Burke isn't stupid. He's aware - like the rest of the world is - that the Canucks need to get rid of Luongo. That is obvious. He also is aware that there are very few realistic buyers.

Gillis really can't afford to "hold out", because of the above two fundamental market principles.

...and you know that there are few buyers how? Did Brian Burke tell you, or Mike Gillis?
  • 1

#2630 oldnews

oldnews

    Declining Grinder

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,000 posts
  • Joined: 30-March 11

Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:47 PM

...and you know that there are few buyers how? Did Brian Burke tell you, or Mike Gillis?


He knows this because The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water signifying by divine Providence, that He, King, is to know these things.
  • 2

#2631 sampy

sampy

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,069 posts
  • Joined: 05-May 07

Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:53 PM

Unfortunately, Brian Burke isn't stupid. He's aware - like the rest of the world is - that the Canucks need to get rid of Luongo. That is obvious. He also is aware that there are very few realistic buyers.

Gillis really can't afford to "hold out", because of the above two fundamental market principles.

A lot of it depend on the new CBA. If the deal lowers player cap hits and doesn't punish existing long term contracts, then MG has an All Star starting goaltender in his pocket. IMO there will be more than 1 team in need of a starting goalie. COL, TB and CLB paid through the roof for unproven goaltenders. A proven and experienced All Star would be worth a lot. There are teams interested that us fans wouldn't even think of.
  • 0

#2632 Canucks_Hockey_101

Canucks_Hockey_101

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,195 posts
  • Joined: 05-November 12

Posted 16 December 2012 - 11:45 PM

A lot of it depend on the new CBA. If the deal lowers player cap hits and doesn't punish existing long term contracts, then MG has an All Star starting goaltender in his pocket. IMO there will be more than 1 team in need of a starting goalie. COL, TB and CLB paid through the roof for unproven goaltenders. A proven and experienced All Star would be worth a lot. There are teams interested that us fans wouldn't even think of.


I can think of thirty, including Vancouver. Fact: Vancouver now has two highly seeked after commodities in net.

They are professionals and will abide by the rule of time. They will seal their fate by their own skills. One will eventually be traded. Many will pursue that which is then offered.

Hockey shall resume.

Edited by Canucks_Hockey_101, 17 December 2012 - 08:32 AM.

  • 0

#2633 King of the ES

King of the ES

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,272 posts
  • Joined: 27-May 12

Posted 17 December 2012 - 04:32 AM

...and you know that there are few buyers how? Did Brian Burke tell you, or Mike Gillis?


Look around the league. Teams are already heavily invested in other goalies. Acquiring Luongo would mean that they'd have to dump their existing goaltender somewhere else. Moves like these don't happen very often - like, never. It's not very productive to have a multi-page conversation on acquiring Jimmy Howard from the Wings, and then immediately flipping him to the Leafs, because it's just so unlikely an event to happen.

So there's the pre-existing investment fact, and there's now the obvious fact that owners want NOTHING to do with the lifetime comment. Bill Daly's "the hill we will die on" comment should offer good support for that.

No point hanging onto Luongo as his value will not be increasing.
  • 0

#2634 King of the ES

King of the ES

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,272 posts
  • Joined: 27-May 12

Posted 17 December 2012 - 04:43 AM

A lot of it depend on the new CBA. If the deal lowers player cap hits and doesn't punish existing long term contracts, then MG has an All Star starting goaltender in his pocket. IMO there will be more than 1 team in need of a starting goalie. COL, TB and CLB paid through the roof for unproven goaltenders. A proven and experienced All Star would be worth a lot. There are teams interested that us fans wouldn't even think of.


Colorado's an interesting example. They got Varlamov for their 1st and a 2nd in either 2012 or 2013. I wonder if they would've preferred him to Schneider? Would you rather have Schneider, or Luongo + Filip Forsberg + a 2nd?

And you can take all 3 of those teams off the market. Colorado and TB, for the very reason that you've mentioned - cost of acquiring different goaltenders - Columbus, for the simple fact that Luongo almost definitely would not waive his NTC to go there.

A "proven and experienced All Star" is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for him. And when there aren't a lot of buyers, that price simply will not be very high. Gillis backed himself into a low-leverage negotiating position, and he's going to pay for it.

Edited by King of the ES, 17 December 2012 - 04:43 AM.

  • 0

#2635 WiDeN

WiDeN

    Canucks Second-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,754 posts
  • Joined: 08-December 06

Posted 17 December 2012 - 09:24 AM

He knows this because The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water signifying by divine Providence, that He, King, is to know these things.

OMG, this is like dejavu! Hahaha, this applies better here though. Hahahahaha. That was hilarious.

Edit: 10 points to anyone who knows what this is from.

Edited by WiDeN, 17 December 2012 - 09:27 AM.

  • 0

V a n c o u v e r C a n u c k s

MirandaKerr.jpg
2 0 1 5 S t a n l e y C u p C h a m p i o n s


#2636 Pears

Pears

    Canucks All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,539 posts
  • Joined: 14-November 11

Posted 17 December 2012 - 09:35 AM

Look around the league. Teams are already heavily invested in other goalies.

Can you provide hard evidence that states other teams are doing this? Other wise I'm gonna assume you're just saying this to help support your claims.
  • 0

In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#2637 smurf47

smurf47

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,948 posts
  • Joined: 01-April 10

Posted 17 December 2012 - 10:07 AM

Look around the league. Teams are already heavily invested in other goalies. Acquiring Luongo would mean that they'd have to dump their existing goaltender somewhere else. Moves like these don't happen very often - like, never. It's not very productive to have a multi-page conversation on acquiring Jimmy Howard from the Wings, and then immediately flipping him to the Leafs, because it's just so unlikely an event to happen.

So there's the pre-existing investment fact, and there's now the obvious fact that owners want NOTHING to do with the lifetime comment. Bill Daly's "the hill we will die on" comment should offer good support for that.

No point hanging onto Luongo as his value will not be increasing.

Only a supposition on your part, not factual. You could be right on the fact that there may not be many teams interested but its only an opinion that you present, although you state it as gospel. Try ususing IMO more and stop pretending and posturing that you know !
  • 0

#2638 King of the ES

King of the ES

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,272 posts
  • Joined: 27-May 12

Posted 17 December 2012 - 10:26 AM

Can you provide hard evidence that states other teams are doing this? Other wise I'm gonna assume you're just saying this to help support your claims.


Not sure you understood my point. "Heavily invested" is past tense. My point is that teams most teams already have an established starting goalie with multiple years and fair-sized money allocated to them. So to be interested in Luongo, they'd need to pretty much already have a plan in place for what to do with their existing starter. Otherwise, they'd need to be selling low, and they'd be in the weak bargaining position that we're in.
  • 0

#2639 WiDeN

WiDeN

    Canucks Second-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,754 posts
  • Joined: 08-December 06

Posted 17 December 2012 - 10:36 AM

If the cap drops to what they are projecting, then it would be nearly impossible to institute without giving teams some sort of buy out option, which would completely change which teams could go after Lu. The Flyers for example could buy out Bryz, and trade for Lu.
  • 0

V a n c o u v e r C a n u c k s

MirandaKerr.jpg
2 0 1 5 S t a n l e y C u p C h a m p i o n s


#2640 D-Money

D-Money

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,156 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06

Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:52 AM

Look around the league. Teams are already heavily invested in other goalies. Acquiring Luongo would mean that they'd have to dump their existing goaltender somewhere else. Moves like these don't happen very often - like, never. It's not very productive to have a multi-page conversation on acquiring Jimmy Howard from the Wings, and then immediately flipping him to the Leafs, because it's just so unlikely an event to happen.


Although I agree with many of your points, this isn't entirely true. There are a lot of teams with huge question marks in their current and/or future goaltending. As far as I can see, depending on Lu's willingness to waive his NTC, there are as many as 10 teams who would be interested in Luongo.

Anaheim Ducks - Jonas Hiller has been excellent when healthy...but that's just it. Has he beaten vertigo for good? Or will he be a threat to miss half a season the next time he gets a puck off the mask? His contract is up after next season. Do the Ducks go forward with him, or try to land someone more dependable to rebuild around?

Chicago Blackhawks - Corey Crawford was impressive in 2010-11, but was not at all last year. Which is the real Crawford? His AHL history seems to indicate that he will likely remain pedestrian. Having an below-average starter worked when they had Campbell on a 2nd pairing, and Ladd and Versteeg on the 3rd line. But now that they have had to remove a lot of their depth, goaltending will need to improve if they hope to have a decent shot at another cup.

Columbus Blue Jackets - I don't see Lu waiving his NTC for the BJ's, but if he would, they'd be a heavy bidder.

Edmonton Oilers - Dubnyk has been decent, and Lu probably won't waive his NTC to go here, so I don't see this as likely. However, Luongo would still be an upgrade and a great veteran presence in the defensive zone. And if winning is what Lu is about, there are few teams that looked more poised than Edmonton to win a cup in the next 5 years. So the possibility is still there.

Florida Panthers - Look ready to really compete. Theodore has been decent, but will never be a difference-maker, and is UFA after this season (if it ever happens) anyways. Markstrom has struggled with injuries and sketchy performance. Add in a boost to local interest by bringing back a fan favourite all-star, and Lu to the Panthers makes perfect sense.

Minnesota Wild - This one doesn't seem to get talked about, but Minny may be VERY interested. Backstrom is an impending UFA, and has suffered recent injury troubles. Harding had shown signs of having what it took to be a decent starter/1A, but he was recently diagnosed with MS. They loaded up with Parise and Suter, and have some great prospects coming up, but who is going to be in net for these next few promising years?

New York Islanders - Great crop of up-and-coming young players, home ice in the hippest part of the greatest city in North America, and the team that originally drafted Roberto. And once Nabokov hangs them up, all they really have is DiPietro (so, they really have nothing). If Lu is willing to waive his NTC for the Isles, they'd be all over it.

San Jose Sharks - Niemi has proven to be a capable starter, but has not been a difference maker. If they are going to take another run with Thornton/Marleau/Boyle, Luongo would be a good upgrade. With 2 more years at 3.8 though, this one would be tough to pull off without Canucks taking Niemi back as part of the deal. But Schneider-Niemi would be a great goaltending tandem, and we'd still save 1.5 of cap.

Tampa Bay Lightning - Lindback has skills, but unfortunately for him, he also has Adult On-set Stills Disease. He has to take massive painkillers to play, and even then I'm surprised he can play at an NHL level. Even if he can improve on his fairly average start to his career, and be able to play for a number of years, but I seriously doubt he'd be able to handle a starter's workload. And after him, who is there?

Toronto Maple Leafs - Discussed to death already.
  • 3
Posted Image




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Canucks.com is the official Web site of The Vancouver Canucks. The Vancouver Canucks and Canucks.com are trademarks of The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership.  NHL and the word mark and image of the Stanley Cup are registered trademarks and the NHL Shield and NHL Conference logos are trademarks of the National Hockey League. All NHL logos and marks and NHL team logos and marks as well as all other proprietary materials depicted herein are the property of the NHL and the respective NHL teams and may not be reproduced without the prior written consent of NHL Enterprises, L.P.  Copyright © 2009 The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership and the National Hockey League.  All Rights Reserved.