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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 3.0


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#2821 oldnews

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 08:14 PM

Schenn is dim-witted and dim-witted equals Cup (see Lucic and... Hopefully Kassian)


If dumb meant cup the Leafs would have been hoisting regularly.
And dumb on the blueline is not a good idea - again, the Leafs provide ample evidence.
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#2822 oldnews

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 08:15 PM

Was Kassian acquired to be a goon? Is that what we traded Cody Hodgson for?


I think you know better than that.
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#2823 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 10:31 PM

Was Kassian acquired to be a goon? Is that what we traded Cody Hodgson for?


Well we expect him to be physical and to fight no?
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#2824 smurf47

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 11:31 PM

Was Kassian acquired to be a goon? Is that what we traded Cody Hodgson for?

quit deflecting and answer the question !
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#2825 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 11:48 PM

I expect Kassian to be intense, to eventually score goals on the first line, and to have the odd fight. Burrows will not defend the Twins and if he's as good as people make him up to be, he can score goals on the second line playing with Kesler and Booth, giving an extra jolt of energy to that line. If I'm the opposition and I have to play against a BURROWS - KESLER - BOOTH line, I'm tentative and therefore make mistakes which in turn that line capitalizes on.

Removing Burrows from the top line will not make a dent in the Sedins' play one bit. Kassian could in theory, score as many goals as Burrows, Carter and Klatt playing an intense game beside the Twins while bringing an intangible Burrows cannot compete with; toughness and defending the Twins.

Imagine the opposition know they would have to answer to Kassian if they roughed up the Twins; the Sedins would most likely bring their game to a totally new level knowing they are backed by Kassian if thing get too rough and that in itself is an extremely scary thought for 29 other teams.

Had this structure been played out since Kassian's trade to the Canucks, I would think Keith would have second guessed his blatant elbow to Daniel, which might have meant a Cup for Vancouver instead of an early 1st round exist to the eventual SC winner and the demise of one of the greatest goaltender to play the game in a Canucks uniform.

Edited by Canucks_Hockey_101, 28 December 2012 - 06:38 PM.

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#2826 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 12:48 AM

Hopefully we get Kadri through trade then draft Carrier with out 1st.

Carrier - Kadri - Jensen, could be a great scoring line for us in the future, there is a great combination of size, speed and skill, then style wise Kadri and Carrier are in theory more playmaking type players (Who can still finish) and Jensen seems to be a pure finisher so it could be a great line in the future.
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#2827 Pears

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 12:55 AM

Hopefully we get Kadri through trade then draft Carrier with out 1st.

Carrier - Kadri - Jensen, could be a great scoring line for us in the future, there is a great combination of size, speed and skill, then style wise Kadri and Carrier are in theory more playmaking type players (Who can still finish) and Jensen seems to be a pure finisher so it could be a great line in the future.

I'd go for Biggs as well

Biggs - Gaunce - Kassian
Carrier - Kadri - Jensen
Sweatt - Schroeder - Rodin

:mellow:

Edited by Steven Stamkos' Mullet, 28 December 2012 - 12:57 AM.

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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

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#2828 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 01:05 AM

I'd go for Biggs as well

Biggs - Gaunce - Kassian
Carrier - Kadri - Jensen
Sweatt - Schroeder - Rodin

:mellow:


Yeah that would certaintly be nice. (Although in your project line-up I would switch the Gaunce and Kadri line, Biggs doesn't have 1st line offensive skill, aswell Jensen, Kadri and Carrier all have more offensive upside than either Biggs, Kass or Gaunce)
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#2829 King of the ES

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 04:24 AM

Removing Burrows from the top line will not make a sent in the Sedins' play one bit. Kassian could in theory, score as many goals as Burrows, Carter and Klatt playing an intense game beside the Twins while bringing an intangible Burrows cannot compete with; toughness and defending the Twins.


"In theory", OK.

Practically, though, he hasn't shown nearly enough to be given a 1st line role. 6 goals, 16 points in 25 AHL games? Wasn't he supposed to be "dominant" in the AHL this year, until the NHL started back up again? Hardly encouraging. Removing Burrows from that line in favor of Kassian would not be wise.
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#2830 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:11 AM

"In theory", OK.

Practically, though, he hasn't shown nearly enough to be given a 1st line role. 6 goals, 16 points in 25 AHL games? Wasn't he supposed to be "dominant" in the AHL this year, until the NHL started back up again? Hardly encouraging. Removing Burrows from that line in favor of Kassian would not be wise.


Yeah I think we should give him a good shot on the 2nd, him Booth and Kes played really well against Buffalo then for some reason AV never really gave that line a shot together for some reason.

Kass playmaking ability is better than he is given credit for too, he controls the puck well and makes good plays, recently he has been doing it, hasn't always resulted in goals but from watching the games you can tell his playmaking and puck protecting ability is good.

But don't put him with the twins right away, no reason to ruin a good thing.
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#2831 eretz canucks

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:14 AM

To CBJ
Luongo
Raymond
VAN 2st 2013

To VAN

CBJ 1st
Jenner
Mason
Dorsett or McKenzie


boom
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#2832 sampy

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:22 AM

To CBJ
Luongo
Raymond
VAN 2st 2013

To VAN

CBJ 1st
Jenner
Mason
Dorsett or McKenzie


boom


If Lu is willing to go to CLB, Johansen has to be targeted.

Blockbuster:

Lu, Shroeder, 2nd
For
Johansen, Dorsett
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#2833 WiDeN

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 11:23 AM

I've decided that I don't care what we have to give up to trade up in the draft to get Drouin. I love how this kid plays. I want MG to make a powerplay to get him.
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#2834 WiDeN

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 11:29 AM

Yeah I think we should give him a good shot on the 2nd, him Booth and Kes played really well against Buffalo then for some reason AV never really gave that line a shot together for some reason.

Kass playmaking ability is better than he is given credit for too, he controls the puck well and makes good plays, recently he has been doing it, hasn't always resulted in goals but from watching the games you can tell his playmaking and puck protecting ability is good.

But don't put him with the twins right away, no reason to ruin a good thing.

I really think that Jensen could complete that line too. If Kassian just aint doin it, then put him on the 3rd, and give Jensen a shot.

Sedin Sedin Burrows
Booth Kesler Jensen
Hansen Malholtra Kassian
Raymond Lapierre Higgins

I actually have high hopes for Malholtra to bounce back from his injury after an offseason without surgery. He might be the answer for our 3rd line after all.

Edited by WiDeN, 28 December 2012 - 11:37 AM.

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#2835 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 11:37 AM

Kadri is there to generate offense. He's gotten 25 points in 25 games; he's doing his job. You're just looking for excuses as to why his offensive production should be discounted, not unlike what Mike Gillis said about "manipulating" Cody Hodgson's situational play (bollocks) and not unlike what so many of those in denial are saying about Justin Schultz, that his ridiculous numbers in the AHL thus far are solely attributable to the people that he's playing with (even though he leads them all).

If Kadri were not generating offense, I would also be concerned. Kinda like I am with Zack Kassian and Jordan Schroeder, two guys who are underperforming. In 30 AHL games last year, Kassian had 15 goals and 26 points; this season, 24 games in, he's gotten 6 goals and 14 points. He's also gotten 55 PIMs (roughly double what he had last year at this point), which suggests that he's either slow, lazy, or stupid. I really hope that we didn't trade Cody Hodgson for a 4th line "enforcer".

Are you concerned about either Kassian or Schroeder? Schroeder's even smaller than Kadri, as I assume you know. 15 points in 25 games.


nope not concerned about kassian whatsoever. and schroeder will depend on how he can compete vs. bigger guys.

your view is overly simplistic and like many others on here actually very incorrect in your analysis of what it takes to make the jump from ahl to nhl.

I have stated it numerous times and you can choose to disagree/discount what I am saying about what it takes and simply focus on points and that's your choice but i view it as very wrong, and also much of the reason why Kadri has not been able to make the jump despite a black hole in the position he was drafted to fill in Toronto with the big club.

Players have roles and within those roles, have to excel and have certain additional assets to make the jump or else they turn into AHL superstars who never quite crack the next level - and there is a whole boatload of great AHL point producers who never make it...so clearly points aren't the only thing that matter.

As I mentioned with Kadri, he is a tweener. He is great at the AHL level bc his weaknesses aren't exposed but they are in the NHL.

1. His skating is at best average. He does not have NHL speed and is not strong on his skates
2. He has no size and as a result number one impacts him even more so at the NHL level
3. He plays on the outside - if you want a comparable to what happens when you can't or won't go to dirty areas look at Raymond (Mayray is challenged by number 2 as well..however Raymond has number 1, great speed but look at his production?)
4. Won't even talk about committment again (weight)
5. Defensive positioning - which is effectively effort/determination/drive, is poor, and add in 1 and 2 and you have alot of issues here as well.

So when you add it up...he won't transition well, he hasn't transitioned well, he is a throw in that Burke will try to Pawn off as a potential 2nd line center when in actual fact he is now Leaf baggage.

Simple way to prove it. If he was a potential 2nd line center, a team void of offensive centers would have played him.

I pray the Nucks aren't stupid enough to take this bag of pucks back and you'll see in time. Just like I called Schnieds, I am calling the fact that this kid will never stick as a 2nd line center in the NHL.

Edited by BuretoMogilny, 28 December 2012 - 11:45 AM.

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#2836 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 04:32 PM

nope not concerned about kassian whatsoever. and schroeder will depend on how he can compete vs. bigger guys.

your view is overly simplistic and like many others on here actually very incorrect in your analysis of what it takes to make the jump from ahl to nhl.

I have stated it numerous times and you can choose to disagree/discount what I am saying about what it takes and simply focus on points and that's your choice but i view it as very wrong, and also much of the reason why Kadri has not been able to make the jump despite a black hole in the position he was drafted to fill in Toronto with the big club.

Players have roles and within those roles, have to excel and have certain additional assets to make the jump or else they turn into AHL superstars who never quite crack the next level - and there is a whole boatload of great AHL point producers who never make it...so clearly points aren't the only thing that matter.

As I mentioned with Kadri, he is a tweener. He is great at the AHL level bc his weaknesses aren't exposed but they are in the NHL.

1. His skating is at best average. He does not have NHL speed and is not strong on his skates
2. He has no size and as a result number one impacts him even more so at the NHL level
3. He plays on the outside - if you want a comparable to what happens when you can't or won't go to dirty areas look at Raymond (Mayray is challenged by number 2 as well..however Raymond has number 1, great speed but look at his production?)
4. Won't even talk about committment again (weight)
5. Defensive positioning - which is effectively effort/determination/drive, is poor, and add in 1 and 2 and you have alot of issues here as well.

So when you add it up...he won't transition well, he hasn't transitioned well, he is a throw in that Burke will try to Pawn off as a potential 2nd line center when in actual fact he is now Leaf baggage.

Simple way to prove it. If he was a potential 2nd line center, a team void of offensive centers would have played him.

I pray the Nucks aren't stupid enough to take this bag of pucks back and you'll see in time. Just like I called Schnieds, I am calling the fact that this kid will never stick as a 2nd line center in the NHL.


Actually he isn't a perimeter player, he goes to the net and the dirty areas.
His size isn't an issue and I think he is fine on his skates.

I'm not going to go through the entire list I think you are off in your anaylsis simply because you don't like him, because if he wasn't good in all these areas there is no way he would be doing this well in the AHL.

Plus he is still 22, he is still developing and has time to continue to get better and learn, your probably expecting to much.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 28 December 2012 - 04:33 PM.

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#2837 King of the ES

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 04:50 PM

Blockbuster:

Lu, Shroeder, 2nd
For
Johansen, Dorsett


As usual, the Canucks somehow end up with the most valuable player, by a mile.

Keep dreaming.
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#2838 King of the ES

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 04:52 PM

I actually have high hopes for Malholtra to bounce back from his injury after an offseason without surgery. He might be the answer for our 3rd line after all.


Yuck, not a chance. Hated the signing from the day it happened. If Lapierre can stay out of the penalty box, he is a far more useful player.

The Canucks should never have let Kyle Wellwood go.
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#2839 Pears

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 04:53 PM

As usual, the Canucks somehow end up with the most valuable player, by a mile.

Keep dreaming.

King, until you stop grossly under-valuing Luongo, please refrain from posting.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#2840 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 04:55 PM

Yuck, not a chance. Hated the signing from the day it happened. If Lapierre can stay out of the penalty box, he is a far more useful player.

The Canucks should never have let Kyle Wellwood go.


Lol it was a great signing, I agree with WiDeN 100% Manny was an excellent signing, it's unfortunante what happened because he was a great 3rd liner but he has worked hard and if he can't be a good 3rd liner again he will still be a great 4th liner and bring leadership.

Manny >>> Wellwood

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 28 December 2012 - 04:56 PM.

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#2841 smurf47

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 04:55 PM

Yuck, not a chance. Hated the signing from the day it happened. If Lapierre can stay out of the penalty box, he is a far more useful player.

The Canucks should never have let Kyle Wellwood go.

A triple header, 3 opinions in one post, wow. You never stop amazing us, but one good thing, it reduces your posts by 2 :)
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#2842 King of the ES

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 04:59 PM

King, until you stop grossly under-valuing Luongo, please refrain from posting.


There's currently a "Luongo Amnesty Buyout" thread on the main board. I don't think that will happen, but the fact that it's even being discussed should be a pretty strong signal that a guy like Ryan Johansen will not be ours by dangling Roberto Luongo.

Believe it or not, demand for a 34 year-old goalie under contract until 2022 in an environment of a declining salary cap is not too attractive. But I guess we'll let it play out. You might want to prepare yourself for disappointment, though, if you think that a guy like Ryan Johansen is a serious possibility.
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#2843 King of the ES

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:03 PM

Lol it was a great signing, I agree with WiDeN 100% Manny was an excellent signing, it's unfortunante what happened because he was a great 3rd liner but he has worked hard and if he can't be a good 3rd liner again he will still be a great 4th liner and bring leadership.

Manny >>> Wellwood


Typically, I don't buy the "misused by AV" crap that people spout off about all the time, but Kyle Wellwood was badly misused by AV. Far higher hockey IQ than anyone not named Sedin, better passer than anyone not named Sedin, did not/does not take penalties, very good teammate (Kesler was quoted as saying that he was the funniest guy on the team), could've been signed for practically nothing, etc.

Having him on the 3rd line made absolutely zero sense. Horrible use of obvious talent.
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#2844 King of the ES

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:04 PM

A triple header, 3 opinions in one post, wow. You never stop amazing us, but one good thing, it reduces your posts by 2 :)


Have you ordered your Ryan Johansen Canuck jersey yet, smurf?
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#2845 WiDeN

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:26 PM

There's currently a "Luongo Amnesty Buyout" thread on the main board. I don't think that will happen, but the fact that it's even being discussed should be a pretty strong signal that a guy like Ryan Johansen will not be ours by dangling Roberto Luongo.

Believe it or not, demand for a 34 year-old goalie under contract until 2022 in an environment of a declining salary cap is not too attractive. But I guess we'll let it play out. You might want to prepare yourself for disappointment, though, if you think that a guy like Ryan Johansen is a serious possibility.

At no time should what is being discussed on CDC lead you to believe ANYTHING. Why not look at what type of return MG has been able to generate in his transactions so far. He hasn't accepted a bag of pucks for anyone. Some of his acquisitions haven't panned out as we had hoped (Ballard/Booth), but he has made pretty decent trades and signings since he took over. I can't see MG getting shafted in the Lu trade. We wouldn't get 2006 Luongo value, but we'll still get a half decent return.
I think his low cap hit will be much more attractive if the cap goes down, and the length becomes easier to deal with, because you're getting a top notch goalie at a reasonable hit. It also looks like there will be an amnesty buyout option in the new CBA, so it could make the trade market a lot more interesting.
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#2846 oldnews

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 06:17 PM

Typically, I don't buy the "misused by AV" crap that people spout off about all the time, but Kyle Wellwood was badly misused by AV. Far higher hockey IQ than anyone not named Sedin, better passer than anyone not named Sedin, did not/does not take penalties, very good teammate (Kesler was quoted as saying that he was the funniest guy on the team), could've been signed for practically nothing, etc.

Having him on the 3rd line made absolutely zero sense. Horrible use of obvious talent.


:lol:

Hank and Kesler. It's as simple as that.
Wellwood on the third line was exactly where he belonged.
The whole misused by AV line is that is spouted everywhere is as dumb here as anywhere.
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#2847 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 06:51 PM

King, until you stop grossly under-valuing Luongo, please refrain from posting.


Indeed. Most of the 29 other teams in the league will come knocking for Luongo's services.

Truly, I would continue to increase Schneider's value by playing half the games and keep Lu and try to land a young top D.

CBJ
Schneider
Ballard
Raymond
2nd

VAN
R. Murray
Umberger
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#2848 Get real canuck fans

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 07:00 PM

It is all going to depend on how the new CBA deals with back diving contracts. If there is no way to get rid of a contract by sending them to the minors, or even if a player retires they still account against the cap, then it is almost 100% guaranteed they will buy out Luongo because after this season contracts like Ballard and Booth will have a couple years left, where if Lu is going to cost us 5.3 mill for another 9 seasons, it will be used on Lu
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#2849 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 07:13 PM

It is all going to depend on how the new CBA deals with back diving contracts. If there is no way to get rid of a contract by sending them to the minors, or even if a player retires they still account against the cap, then it is almost 100% guaranteed they will buy out Luongo because after this season contracts like Ballard and Booth will have a couple years left, where if Lu is going to cost us 5.3 mill for another 9 seasons, it will be used on Lu


I would assume a buyout means you 'buy out' the entire contract not a year.

The amount the nucks have to pay to Lou is far greater than Ballard or Booth thus you trade him
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#2850 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 07:17 PM

Typically, I don't buy the "misused by AV" crap that people spout off about all the time, but Kyle Wellwood was badly misused by AV. Far higher hockey IQ than anyone not named Sedin, better passer than anyone not named Sedin, did not/does not take penalties, very good teammate (Kesler was quoted as saying that he was the funniest guy on the team), could've been signed for practically nothing, etc.

Having him on the 3rd line made absolutely zero sense. Horrible use of obvious talent.


Manny >> Wellwood, I like Wellwood but there was no place for him in the top 6, and we wanted to get more gritty on the third.

Adding the defensive play, leadership, faceoff ability and reliability that Manny brings trumps Wellwood, that was a great upgrade by MG.
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