Sharpshooter Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Of course there was bullying, I experienced it. The levels it extends to is worsening though. A slap on your ass when you were young did no damage but it seemed horrible in your mind, and you sure as hell didn't want to do anything that would get you spanked again... Sitting in a corner? big deal. deter someone from anything? no. Take away things they like? maybe they just sneak out of the house and rebel further then... A friend was beaten to death by people who grew up with not caring about anything they did to another person, no consequences so nothing mattered. Hell, they even barely got punished by the law after beating a guy to death brutally. The number of suicides happening is because of how this generation is growing up, not caring about what they do to other people. I saw bullying as a kid, but didn't even see one person kill themselves because of that back then. Now, it's happening more and more... You can yap about my view of the good old days all you want, but the truth is, if you talk to people from the era of getting spanked they'll almost universally say "Wow, I'd NEVER have done that when I was that kids age, my dad would have tanned my hide". We wouldn't have done half the crap kids do these days, because we faced consequences for it if we did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Are you suggesting that 10-16 year old didn't bully each other 10, 25, 50, 100 or more years ago? It's a fallacious kind of logic to suggest that because you hear about more cases because of our increased inter-connectivity that bullying is the result of a new found epidemic and that it wasn't the case when you were growing up or at other times in the past. That's called 'The Good Ol' Days' fallacy. It's something that people use when talking about crime. Because we get more reports of violent crimes nowadays one could conclude that people are more violent nowadays....but the truth is that violent crime rates are down across the board since the 70's. You have to start addressing the way in which you may be formulating fallacious ideas and thoughts. Again, violence begets violence....and sometimes it starts in the home and finds its way into society. Don't discount that, for the easier conclusion that people are just more violent nowadays, and the answer is violence. All that does is feed the beast of violence further, and then we all suffer from those consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester@wraiths.ca Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Great, so you acknowledge there was bullying back then too. Now, why do you think there was bullying back in the good old days of 'hide tanning'? Is is because the hides weren't properly tanned? Or because they weren't tanned often enough? Why exactly did kids in the good old days continue to bully even when they knew they'd get a tanned hide?? He who smacked hardest had the best kids, perhaps? You also seem to acknowledge that slapping a kid in the ass didn't do physical damage, but it was "horrible" in the minds of the children. Are you saying that you're ok with the emotional or psychological harm that comes to kids, as long as it isn't physical? That's a bit of a slippery slope wouldn't you say?....let alone an archaic understanding of child development. And if they were old enough to sneak out of the house, do you really think that smacking them on the bottom would deter them? I mean, i assume 5 year olds weren't sneaking out of the house back in the good old days right? And if they were older, you don't believe that treating older kids with a bit of respect and understanding would work better than to give them a tanned hide? I'll tell you from my personal experience, that by the time I was about 15 years old, my father nor mother would have dared raise a hand to me, or they'd have found more than their own hides tanned. Fortunately my father was smarter than that, and never raised a hand to me, except once, for which he's shameful about till this day. I still remember it, and it still sticks between us as a sore point (excuse the pun once again) In all our time, violence was not how we solved things and we're much better off today as father and son because of it. Fear and intimidation of children in not an investment that will pay relationship dividends down the road, most of the time. Humans simply don't react well to either. Why do you assume that 'go sit in the corner' is the be all and end all of consequences for poor behaviour? Is that really what you think the only non-violent alternatives are?? Suicide rates for the ages between 15-19 have been pretty constant in Canada. http://www.statcan.g...-chart6-eng.htm Kinda blows away that whole 'suicide nowadays is happening more and more' fallacy, eh? Again, you may think i'm just 'yapping' but the data and studies speak for themselves. Maybe you need to have a bit of a rethink about your own views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 And go back farther. Your chart is nice in that it doesn't demonstrate how much lower is was decades before that at the height of the tanned hides eras... nor does it show that in the last few years, suicides among teen girls in some countries had risen by 76%... It's fine, you don't think consequences are beneficial, that's your right to think that. I think you couldn't be more wrong, and it's my right to think that. Maybe when someone close to you dies because of the actions of people who just never learned to care about anyone but themselves, or that tormenting others is wrong, you'll look at things differently. If the busdriver had run someone over because of the chick hitting him, people would be saying "why didn't someone punch that bitch..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester@wraiths.ca Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Did anybody else hear that giant *WOOOOOSH*. What part of anything anybody has said makes you think we don't believe children should learn and have consequences for their actions? Why is it that you insist on thinking "consequences" MUST be physical punishment? Can you honestly not think of other and better ways to teach children consequences for their actions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 And go back farther. Your chart is nice in that it doesn't demonstrate how much lower is was decades before that at the height of the tanned hides eras... nor does it show that in the last few years, suicides among teen girls in some countries had risen by 76%... It's fine, you don't think consequences are beneficial, that's your right to think that. I think you couldn't be more wrong, and it's my right to think that. Maybe when someone close to you dies because of the actions of people who just never learned to care about anyone but themselves, or that tormenting others is wrong, you'll look at things differently. If the busdriver had run someone over because of the chick hitting him, people would be saying "why didn't someone punch that bitch..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester@wraiths.ca Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Basically, what you're saying is that you don't care what facts or arguments are presented to you, you're going to stick with the way you think, because that's the way you think, right? Yeah, i suppose you have the right to be stubborn if you want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 What I'm saying is I don't think anything you've said is even close to convincing me that the no-real-consequences-to-fear parenting style has helped. I am saying I feel it is part of the problem that has us seeing the most uncaring generation treating people with zero respect and feeling that it's totally fine for them to be like that. A generation of sadistic pricks is being raised without a spanking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeyfan87 Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 And so you're remedy is to rear children using fear, violence and intimidation in order to prompt the behaviour you want. Gotcha....that's certainly worked well over the years. When the homicide rate was the highest it ever was in B.C....in the mid to late 70's fyi....what era do you think those people who committed those homicides grew up in? Oh that's right, those model citizens grew up in the tan hidin era of the 50's, and 60's. Sure did a lot of good back in the good ol' days eh? Look, you can 'feel' whatever you want to 'feel'. What i'm trying to display for you is that your feelings run counter to the data and to numerous academic and field studies. What do you think has more weight in reality. The feelings you have that come your biased musings, or the research? Corporal punishment does not work.....and this is why there are now 32 countries that have outright banned it....and more are considering it every year. 32 different countries and the ones now moving to banning it outright, can't all be wrong, as more and more data and research presents itself to them, that it doesn't work and that it's harmful. You can accept that, or reject it, if you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VICanucksfan5551 Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 I'm on your side of the debate but to suggest that homicide peaked during the 70s because of corporal punishment is a bit of a reach. It's much more likely because of the baby boomers and the age prime cohort for homicide (young males) being at their largest proportion of the total population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManUtd Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 And go back farther. Your chart is nice in that it doesn't demonstrate how much lower is was decades before that at the height of the tanned hides eras... nor does it show that in the last few years, suicides among teen girls in some countries had risen by 76%... It's fine, you don't think consequences are beneficial, that's your right to think that. I think you couldn't be more wrong, and it's my right to think that. Maybe when someone close to you dies because of the actions of people who just never learned to care about anyone but themselves, or that tormenting others is wrong, you'll look at things differently. If the busdriver had run someone over because of the chick hitting him, people would be saying "why didn't someone punch that bitch..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 I'm on your side of the debate but to suggest that homicide peaked during the 70s because of corporal punishment is a bit of a reach. It's much more likely because of the baby boomers and the age prime cohort for homicide (young males) being at their largest proportion of the total population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester@wraiths.ca Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 In this you have a black and white view, as if there is no grey. Because I say a kid may learn from a slap on the ass that does no damage but makes them feel a consequence for their action, you make it sound like i advocate beating the tar out of them. You say it's a fallacy that our society is producing a generation of uncaring individuals, but all we have to do is look around and you're bombarded by stories that illustrate it. The volume of people continuing to torment a dead girl online, tormenting her family and friends in the process paints a much different picture of society than you have. We have a riot in this town and it's the minority that showed any morals, and the rest beat them for it. Things aren't worse now? All through school, I never once heard of someone killing themselves in the schools I was in, now it's regular news. Getting in a fight meant you were in a fight with another person, now it means you're probably getting swarmed by a dozen guys. There actually was more respect for other people in the past, maybe you never saw it, who knows, but respecting another isn't the norm these days. I am sick to F'ing death with the way society as a whole is. Disrespect of anyone that isn't you is the standard now. Who cares about anyone else, it's all about you and that's it. It's a sport to torment, belittle, and piss off people. Kids growing up with no consequences, which is only magnified by "online" lives where they're anonymous and can say and do anything they want (with no consequences) perpetuates the problem. A day ago 3 guys beat a security guard with pipes, in Poco for no reason at all, then just left him there. You're right, society is really getting better, you can just feel it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortorella's Rant Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 In this you have a black and white view, as if there is no grey. Because I say a kid may learn from a slap on the ass that does no damage but makes them feel a consequence for their action, you make it sound like i advocate beating the tar out of them. You say it's a fallacy that our society is producing a generation of uncaring individuals, but all we have to do is look around and you're bombarded by stories that illustrate it. The volume of people continuing to torment a dead girl online, tormenting her family and friends in the process paints a much different picture of society than you have. We have a riot in this town and it's the minority that showed any morals, and the rest beat them for it. Things aren't worse now? All through school, I never once heard of someone killing themselves in the schools I was in, now it's regular news. Getting in a fight meant you were in a fight with another person, now it means you're probably getting swarmed by a dozen guys. There actually was more respect for other people in the past, maybe you never saw it, who knows, but respecting another isn't the norm these days. I am sick to F'ing death with the way society as a whole is. Disrespect of anyone that isn't you is the standard now. Who cares about anyone else, it's all about you and that's it. It's a sport to torment, belittle, and piss off people. Kids growing up with no consequences, which is only magnified by "online" lives where they're anonymous and can say and do anything they want (with no consequences) perpetuates the problem. A day ago 3 guys beat a security guard with pipes, in Poco for no reason at all, then just left him there. You're right, society is really getting better, you can just feel it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pianoman13 Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 I don't know where ppl are getting their information, but it is legal for a parent to spank their child in Canada and all 50 states. Just google it, found tons of information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Ambien Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 As the bus driver said, she wanted to be a man and physically confront the driver sitting in his seat where he's supposed to be.. she gets what's coming to her. Can't use the "but she's a wommmannnnnn!" excuse at that point. Oops, sorry, I steered this discussion off-topic to the (adult) bus driver incident, resume on topic discussion of spanking children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Your side of the fence keeps saying other consequences... what is effective? We're in the era of a generation growing up with minimal physical consequence for their actions, and it's more like we're raising a society of completely uncaring psychopaths. Is no physical consequence working really well? really? You've got timeouts, grounding, scolding, taking away privileged, and opposite, rewarding for good behavior etc. I don't see any of that as particularly effective. I got grounded as a kid, i got scolded. I had TV privileges taken away. But the one thing that made me far less likely to do something was thinking I might get spanked for it. And honestly I think I got spanked once ever, yet it made more of a difference than anything else... But it's fine, I guess I just view our society different. It's all good. random attacks on people for fun are good. Tormenting people is A-OK. I wonder how the next generation that gets raised by these wonderful people will be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 As the bus driver said, she wanted to be a man and physically confront the driver sitting in his seat where he's supposed to be.. she gets what's coming to her. Can't use the "but she's a wommmannnnnn!" excuse at that point. Oops, sorry, I steered this discussion off-topic to the (adult) bus driver incident, resume on topic discussion of spanking children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 In this you have a black and white view, as if there is no grey. Because I say a kid may learn from a slap on the ass that does no damage but makes them feel a consequence for their action, you make it sound like i advocate beating the tar out of them. You say it's a fallacy that our society is producing a generation of uncaring individuals, but all we have to do is look around and you're bombarded by stories that illustrate it. The volume of people continuing to torment a dead girl online, tormenting her family and friends in the process paints a much different picture of society than you have. We have a riot in this town and it's the minority that showed any morals, and the rest beat them for it. Things aren't worse now? All through school, I never once heard of someone killing themselves in the schools I was in, now it's regular news. Getting in a fight meant you were in a fight with another person, now it means you're probably getting swarmed by a dozen guys. There actually was more respect for other people in the past, maybe you never saw it, who knows, but respecting another isn't the norm these days. I am sick to F'ing death with the way society as a whole is. Disrespect of anyone that isn't you is the standard now. Who cares about anyone else, it's all about you and that's it. It's a sport to torment, belittle, and piss off people. Kids growing up with no consequences, which is only magnified by "online" lives where they're anonymous and can say and do anything they want (with no consequences) perpetuates the problem. A day ago 3 guys beat a security guard with pipes, in Poco for no reason at all, then just left him there. You're right, society is really getting better, you can just feel it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Ambien Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 You'd be better off talking about spanking, since you clearly can't comprehend that the onus was on the bus driver to handle the situation differently as a professional, and that striking her as he did was not giving her what she deserved. Might does not always make right in the civilized world the rest of us live in. You're as bad as some of the kids in this thread with that "she get's what's coming to her" garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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