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VoiceOfReason_

Bus Driver Uppercuts Young Woman.

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That's a slippery slope, and you know it SC.

There's no hard and fast rule that says you will hit your kids....but the chances are greater since you were exposed to corporal punishment yourself. Just as the likelihood that a child will become an alcoholic if a parent or parents are, or that a child will abuse his spouse after being exposed to that behaviour as well.

I've raised my nieces and a nephew before losing him to cancer a few years back. Our family shares child rearing between siblings and even cousins. All adults, including myself, raise all the kids like a small community. No one hits their kids. We spend hours teaching and providing outlets for their energy and their curiosities. They in turn don't have frustrated temper tantrums, nor do they act out, nor do they cause us the type of frustrations that would lead us to ever want to strike them. We all grew up with being hit as kids, and it's something that we've talked about not perpetuating ourselves as a reaction to our experiences.

When/If I ever have kids of my own, the pattern of child rearing will continue as it's being done so now. Because hitting, threatening, and intimidating children is not in our playbook and not what we consider moral behaviour or 'good' parenting.

You may differ.

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Yeah, I could've worded that a lot better. I'm not saying that I condone parents disciplining their kids in any way that they so choose. Excessive force isn't acceptable, but I don't believe the methods used on me were excessive or did me (or my siblings) any harm. That's not to say that I'll smack my own kids.

Thanks for the response. And I'm sorry to hear about your nephew.

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I was wondering when you were going to chime in. Yes, you make a safe assumption as having pets is so similair to raising children. :rolleyes: If you believe that spanking a child is a physical assault, than that's your opinion. From what I've read, physical assault has taken place when someone has been physically harmed or threatened to be harmed. At no point, in my experiences being spanked as a child, was I ever physically harmed. More embarassing than anything....and a dam good deterent to bad behavior.

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Maybe it will teach her a little respect. Sometimes the only way to teach someone respect is to do so physically. You're not the god damn alpha male, or female in this instance, so stop acting like it. Show a little decency and respect, something your parents obviously failed to do.

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Maybe it will teach her a little respect. Sometimes the only way to teach someone respect is to do so physically. You're not the god damn alpha male, or female in this instance, so stop acting like it. Show a little decency and respect, something your parents obviously failed to do.

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I'm surprised that there are some really intelligent folks in this thread advocating for physically assaulting their children as a means for discipline. The obliviousness to perpetuating the notion that you should use physical violence to solve your problems, especially with young children is remarkable. Is it safe to assume you people hit your pets as well?

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Yeah, I could've worded that a lot better. I'm not saying that I condone parents disciplining their kids in any way that they so choose. Excessive force isn't acceptable, but I don't believe the methods used on me were excessive or did me (or my siblings) any harm. That's not to say that I'll smack my own kids.

Thanks for the response. And I'm sorry to hear about your nephew.

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I hope the bus driver doesn't lose his job but you're delusional if you think she's going to learn any "respect" from being assaulted. She's already appeared on several television outlets playing the victim card. Furthermore if you watch the video again after the uppercut occurs she says something along the lines of "My Ni**ger going to bash your brains out". I'm ashamed that she is even a member of the human species.

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Thanks boys, but don't let that stop you from getting your licks in. You know it won't stop me. :P

This is a big issue, and I don't want my personal anecdote to sway you from arguing your point, which I vehemently disagree with.

So go on with yo bad selves. .....and I mean bad parenting selves. ::D

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Thanks boys, but don't let that stop you from getting your licks in. You know it won't stop me. :P

This is a big issue, and I don't want my personal anecdote to sway you from arguing your point, which I vehemently disagree with.

So go on with yo bad selves. .....and I mean bad parenting selves. ::D

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I don't feel there is much point arguing with you. I really don't have any stats or numbers to back up my claim that kids are worse now. I can only go off what I see, and hearing what some of these 10 years old talk about this day and age, angers even a foul mouthed person such as myself. I had no idea what half the stuff they are talking about was when I was their age...let alone use such profanity carelessly in the presence of adults. And I certainly don't remember teenagers commiting suicide with such regularity the 15 years or so ago I was in high school. Doesn't mean it didn't happen though...I guess.

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Coming from a household where I grew up with 2 younger brothers, I can tell you that in some cases that simply doesn't work. The kid just goes on to resent their parent even more if their privilege is taken away. You say "beaten into line" as if parents beat their kids to a pulp to get their message across. It should be rare, and a last resort if they won't listen to anything else. And there's a huge difference between a single slap to the bottom and physical abuse.

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Spanking to me isn't hitting. You're acting like a little spank on the butt is going Pronger on a kid. I got spanked a few times, learned the consequences. I wasn't a tiny baby, I was a kid. I don't condone severe violence, but there's got to be a medium. Kids don't turn out right from being abused, that's for sure. But you look at kids now not being punished at all and the results aren't kosher.

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Study: Young Children Who Are Spanked Are Happier and More Successful as Teenagers

By Thaddeus M. Baklinski

GRAND RAPIDS, Michigan, January 5, 2010 (LifeSiteNews.com) - A US-based study suggests that spanking isn't harmful for children and, in fact, states that children who had been physically disciplined when they were young, between the ages of 2 and 6, grew up to be happier and more successful, performed better at school as teenagers and were more likely to do volunteer work and to want to go to university, than those who had never been spanked.

The study, conducted under the auspices of the Portraits of American Life Study (PALS) {http://pals.nd.edu/} by Dr. Marjorie Gunnoe, professor of Psychology at Calvin College in Grand Rapids, Michigan, found there was a lack of evidence to prove that spanking harmed children, and that spanking used judiciously as the normal consequence for bad behavior is beneficial to children.

"The claims that are made for not spanking children fail to hold up. They are not consistent with the data," Gunnoe said.

"I think of spanking as a dangerous tool, but there are times when there is a job big enough for a dangerous tool - you just don't use it for all your jobs," she added.

Professor Gunnoe interviewed 2,600 teenagers about being spanked. She found that when participants' answers were compared with their behavior, such as academic success, optimism about the future, antisocial behavior, violence and bouts of depression, those who had been physically disciplined only between the ages of two and six performed best on all the positive measures.

Those who had been spanked between seven and eleven exhibited more negative behavior but were still more likely to be academically successful.

In cases where physical discipline continued beyond the age of 12, or in those who had never received corporal punishment, the children were found to perform more poorly in the indicators that were taken into consideration. Dr. Gunnoe found that almost a quarter of the teens in the study reported they were never spanked.

The American College of Pediatricians (ACP) states that disciplinary spanking by parents can be effective when properly used. "It is clear that parents should not solely rely upon disciplinary spanking to accomplish control of their child's behavior," says the organization's position statement. "Evidence suggests that it can be a useful and necessary part of a successful disciplinary plan."

According to the ACP, effective discipline has three key components: a loving, supportive relationship between parent and child; use of positive reinforcement when children behave well; and, use of punishment when children misbehave.

Many parents who are fearful of using spanking as punishment claim that spanking teaches physically aggressive behavior which the child will imitate.

Aric Sigman, a psychologist and author of "The Spoilt Generation: Why Restoring Authority will Make our Children and Society Happier," commented on the results of Professor Gunnoe's research.

"The idea that smacking and violence are on a continuum is a bizarre and fetishised view of what punishment is for most parents," he told the UK Daily Mail.

"If it's done judiciously by a parent who is normally affectionate and sensitive to their child, our society should not be up in arms about that. Parents should be taught to distinguish this from a punch in the face."

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive//ldn/2010/jan/10010507

American College of Pediatricians: “It’s Okay for Parents to Spank”; Suggests Guidelines

By John-Henry Westen

WASHINGTON, DC, December 3, 2007 (LifeSiteNews.com) - The American College of Pediatricians (ACP), a national medical association of licensed physicians and healthcare professionals who specialize in the care of infants, children, and adolescents, has issued a position statement on the use of spanking by parents, just as the Massachusetts legislature takes up a bill to ban that form of parental discipline.

Despite scientific evidence suggesting that reasonable corporal punishment by parents is beneficial to children, the United Nations has pushed nations to ban parents from using spanking as a form of discipline. That interference with parental rights is one of the issues that has caused much consternation over the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child.

ACP carefully reviewed the available research on corporal punishment and concludes, in its position statement on the subject, that disciplinary spanking by parents can be effective when properly used. "It is clear that parents should not solely rely upon disciplinary spanking to accomplish control of their child’s behavior," says the just-released position statement. "Evidence suggests that it can be a useful and necessary part of a successful disciplinary plan."

Den Trumbull, MD, FCP, principal author of the statement explained, "When a child defies a parent’s instruction, spanking is one of a few options parents can consider to correct the misbehavior." Trumbull added: "Spanking is most appropriate with children 2 to 6 years old, and when milder types of correction have failed."

ACP has created a one page handout for parents titled "Guidelines for Parental Use of Disciplinary Spanking". The guidelines advise that spanking "should be used only when the child receives at least as much encouragement and praise for good behavior as correction for problem behavior." It also says that "milder forms of discipline, such as verbal correction, extinction, logical and natural consequences, and time-out should be used initially, followed by spanking when noncompliance persists."

"Spanking should not be administered on impulse or when a parent is out of control," warns the document noting that "a spanking should always be motivated by love, for the purpose of teaching and correcting, and not for revenge or retaliation."

The guidelines also detail ages when spanking is appropriate. "Spanking is inappropriate before 15 months of age and is usually not necessary until after 18 months. It should be less necessary after 6 years and rarely, if ever, used after 10 years of age," it says. See the guidelines here: http://www.acpeds.org/fastmedia/pdf/CPGuidelines/media/Guidelines_for_Parental_U…

In addition to its policy statement, ACP has published an extensive review of the scientific literature on the subject of corporal punishment and its use in discipline which is available online here:

http://www.acpeds.org/fastmedia/pdf/CPPolicy/media/CPPolicy_final.pdf?id=90&...

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Study: Young Children Who Are Spanked Are Happier and More Successful as Teenagers

By Thaddeus M. Baklinski

GRAND RAPIDS, Michigan, January 5, 2010 (LifeSiteNews.com) - A US-based study suggests that spanking isn't harmful for children and, in fact, states that children who had been physically disciplined when they were young, between the ages of 2 and 6, grew up to be happier and more successful, performed better at school as teenagers and were more likely to do volunteer work and to want to go to university, than those who had never been spanked.

The study, conducted under the auspices of the Portraits of American Life Study (PALS) {http://pals.nd.edu/} by Dr. Marjorie Gunnoe, professor of Psychology at Calvin College in Grand Rapids, Michigan, found there was a lack of evidence to prove that spanking harmed children, and that spanking used judiciously as the normal consequence for bad behavior is beneficial to children.

"The claims that are made for not spanking children fail to hold up. They are not consistent with the data," Gunnoe said.

"I think of spanking as a dangerous tool, but there are times when there is a job big enough for a dangerous tool - you just don't use it for all your jobs," she added.

Professor Gunnoe interviewed 2,600 teenagers about being spanked. She found that when participants' answers were compared with their behavior, such as academic success, optimism about the future, antisocial behavior, violence and bouts of depression, those who had been physically disciplined only between the ages of two and six performed best on all the positive measures.

Those who had been spanked between seven and eleven exhibited more negative behavior but were still more likely to be academically successful.

In cases where physical discipline continued beyond the age of 12, or in those who had never received corporal punishment, the children were found to perform more poorly in the indicators that were taken into consideration. Dr. Gunnoe found that almost a quarter of the teens in the study reported they were never spanked.

The American College of Pediatricians (ACP) states that disciplinary spanking by parents can be effective when properly used. "It is clear that parents should not solely rely upon disciplinary spanking to accomplish control of their child's behavior," says the organization's position statement. "Evidence suggests that it can be a useful and necessary part of a successful disciplinary plan."

According to the ACP, effective discipline has three key components: a loving, supportive relationship between parent and child; use of positive reinforcement when children behave well; and, use of punishment when children misbehave.

Many parents who are fearful of using spanking as punishment claim that spanking teaches physically aggressive behavior which the child will imitate.

Aric Sigman, a psychologist and author of "The Spoilt Generation: Why Restoring Authority will Make our Children and Society Happier," commented on the results of Professor Gunnoe's research.

"The idea that smacking and violence are on a continuum is a bizarre and fetishised view of what punishment is for most parents," he told the UK Daily Mail.

"If it's done judiciously by a parent who is normally affectionate and sensitive to their child, our society should not be up in arms about that. Parents should be taught to distinguish this from a punch in the face."

http://www.lifesiten...10/jan/10010507

American College of Pediatricians: “It’s Okay for Parents to Spank”; Suggests Guidelines

By John-Henry Westen

WASHINGTON, DC, December 3, 2007 (LifeSiteNews.com) - The American College of Pediatricians (ACP), a national medical association of licensed physicians and healthcare professionals who specialize in the care of infants, children, and adolescents, has issued a position statement on the use of spanking by parents, just as the Massachusetts legislature takes up a bill to ban that form of parental discipline.

Despite scientific evidence suggesting that reasonable corporal punishment by parents is beneficial to children, the United Nations has pushed nations to ban parents from using spanking as a form of discipline. That interference with parental rights is one of the issues that has caused much consternation over the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child.

ACP carefully reviewed the available research on corporal punishment and concludes, in its position statement on the subject, that disciplinary spanking by parents can be effective when properly used. "It is clear that parents should not solely rely upon disciplinary spanking to accomplish control of their child’s behavior," says the just-released position statement. "Evidence suggests that it can be a useful and necessary part of a successful disciplinary plan."

Den Trumbull, MD, FCP, principal author of the statement explained, "When a child defies a parent’s instruction, spanking is one of a few options parents can consider to correct the misbehavior." Trumbull added: "Spanking is most appropriate with children 2 to 6 years old, and when milder types of correction have failed."

ACP has created a one page handout for parents titled "Guidelines for Parental Use of Disciplinary Spanking". The guidelines advise that spanking "should be used only when the child receives at least as much encouragement and praise for good behavior as correction for problem behavior." It also says that "milder forms of discipline, such as verbal correction, extinction, logical and natural consequences, and time-out should be used initially, followed by spanking when noncompliance persists."

"Spanking should not be administered on impulse or when a parent is out of control," warns the document noting that "a spanking should always be motivated by love, for the purpose of teaching and correcting, and not for revenge or retaliation."

The guidelines also detail ages when spanking is appropriate. "Spanking is inappropriate before 15 months of age and is usually not necessary until after 18 months. It should be less necessary after 6 years and rarely, if ever, used after 10 years of age," it says. See the guidelines here: http://www.acpeds.or...ental_U…

In addition to its policy statement, ACP has published an extensive review of the scientific literature on the subject of corporal punishment and its use in discipline which is available online here:

http://www.acpeds.or...l.pdf?id=90&...

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^ I don't care anymore. We are obviously not going to see eye to eye and none of us is going to change one another's mind.

So can we just drop this argument already?

No one is going to "win" in the end.

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