Pears Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 And his value will just magically increase while getting a year older and establishing himself as an NHL backup? Seriously, remove Canuck-blinders before posting, please. This is not a good situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Actually, I specified two "top" prospects, a decent 2/3 forward and either the rights to a d-man (with maybe a pick if he doesn't sign here) or a third top prospect. Geez, get it right. I wasn't sure what you were getting at the first time. You're saying: top 9 forward, top 6 defenceman, two "top" prospects. This is possible if one of both of the forward and defencemen are cap dumps. If these were valued players then you're expecting an unrealitic return on Luongo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 3.) Once again, while having Luongo here for an extended period of time might not be the best scenario possible, it is not going to be the huge problem which you anticipate. How do I know this? By the very same means that you know that it will be a problem. I don't know how the impact of the scenario will play out but I know that one or both goalies will be not pleased with the current situation. I also know that every player in the locker room will know that Luongo isn't there for the long term. What these occurences would manifest into I do not know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted October 31, 2012 Author Share Posted October 31, 2012 Yup. This being said, I believe Luongo is a professional and very classy guy, and he will help to diffuse any rancor from this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted October 31, 2012 Author Share Posted October 31, 2012 Well, Franson is worthless to Toronto as a player since he has made it very clear he has no intentions of staying a Leaf. The only value he does have is as trade bait, and since anyone who is interested in him can go-a-courtin' when he becomes a UFA at the end of the season, or maybe they will trade for his rights with a very low-end prospect (ie. a contract dump) or a fairly low draft pick. As I pointed out earlier, it's merely a crapshoot with the Canucks getting Franson as a throw-in. He will likely view the Canucks situation as being similar to that in which he found himself in Toronto. While he is playing behind a more talented bunch of guys here than in Toronto, he would still be playing in a (at best) bottom-6 pairing for the next 4 - 5 years. I would anticipate he would go UFA and find his fortune elsewhere. So, the deal would actually be MacArthur/Kulemin, two top prospects, and what-ever the Canucks can get for Franson's rights before he goes UFA (assuming he doesn't sign). Better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 You should be the one removing the blinders if you think keeping both goalies, if we can't find a good deal for Luongo, is a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lui's Knob Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I'm starting to wonder if and when NHL ever returns if Gillis will have no choice but to keep Luongo and his contract (due to CBA) and perhaps is looking to deal Corey Schneider instead...understanding that he signed a new deal, he would fetch way more than Luongo (rumored to be an impact player, depth player and a pick). If Varlamov got 2 first rounders - the Canucks could quickly stock up the pool of prospects with Schneider, who I could see easily get an impact player along with multiple high picks...and in doing so, you still keep a "decent goalie" plus you have Lack waiting in the wings who has star potential anyways? I know Luongo has had his troubles but I wonder if by means of driving up Luongo's offer a team might blow Gillis' mind with an offer for Schneider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted October 31, 2012 Author Share Posted October 31, 2012 I'm starting to wonder if and when NHL ever returns if Gillis will have no choice but to keep Luongo and his contract (due to CBA) and perhaps is looking to deal Corey Schneider instead...understanding that he signed a new deal, he would fetch way more than Luongo (rumored to be an impact player, depth player and a pick). If Varlamov got 2 first rounders - the Canucks could quickly stock up the pool of prospects with Schneider, who I could see easily get an impact player along with multiple high picks...and in doing so, you still keep a "decent goalie" plus you have Lack waiting in the wings who has star potential anyways? I know Luongo has had his troubles but I wonder if by means of driving up Luongo's offer a team might blow Gillis' mind with an offer for Schneider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Schnieder's value would be more but it's not because he's the better goalie, it's because of his age and contract. He could also go to any team in the leauge so there would be bigger market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 But will he stay classy indefinitely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Franson is still going to be an RFA. He'd be an RFA for years even if he didn't sign a contract. He has more value than a late pick. At the very least it's a 2nd rounder. Nice try but I think we're still far off on what we think Luongo's value is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 So you're saying that he'd get us a better return in the summer of 2013, as a 34 year-old NHL backup with 8 years and $5.3M PY as his contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 So you're saying that he'd get us a better return in the summer of 2013, as a 34 year-old NHL backup with 8 years and $5.3M PY as his contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted November 1, 2012 Author Share Posted November 1, 2012 So you're saying that Schneider's value is better only because of his age and contract? Awesome logic there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 So you're saying that Gillis should trade Luongo for the first offer of a 5th round pick or an outrageous cap dump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 I never said that. I was asking for an explanation as to how a 34 year-old NHL backup in 2013 would be more valuable than a 33 year-old NHL starter in 2012. The answer is that he's not. The Canucks will just be even more desperate in 2013, which should be plainly obvious to anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 1. Disagree. Luongo would not be comfortable the entire season as Scheider's backup. He may tolerate for a bit if he feels Gillis is close but I imagine Luongo wanting to play rather than sit and watch someone else in his net. 2. Please read what you just wrote any aply it to thy self. 3. It's 10 years for a goalie who has looked shaky. If he was a lock as a great goalie the Canucks wouldn't be trading him. 4. You're forgetting the new rules the NHL wants to put in the new CBA ie teams on waivers count against the cap. 5. You're right, I don't know if Luongo gave a list or not but there seems to be less teams in the mix than there was for Nash. 6. We need to establish Luongo's value. You agree that the market dictates Luongo's value but then you pull this value you have for Luongo out of the air. 7. I don't think Franson would be in RFA status if he signed a one year deal this year. It's 7 years of service or 27 right? He'd be 26 and only played in the NHL for 4 seasons. 8. You were right on how I think the trades would go high and low end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted November 2, 2012 Author Share Posted November 2, 2012 Ok, Gollumpus Lets try to find his value. Gillis has said he wants a top 6 forward, a prospect and a 1st. IMO that is the absolute high point. He's not going to ask for less than what he really wants and the market isn't hot enough for Luongo to start an all out bidding war. What teams are legitimately in play for Luongo? To me it's Toronto and Florida with maybe Chicago and Edmonton. Now each team is going to want to pay the least amount possible. Florida does not need Luongo. They know he wants to go there but they have the best goalie prospect in the league in Markstrom and they got good, cheap goaltending from Theodore and Clemmensen. Florida is also a budget team so anything coming in has to have equal dollars going out. What value would they get from acquring Luongo? Not much since they already have decent goaltending and a potential franchise goalie in the making. What it gives them is a "big" trade to gain fan interest, that's about it. Florida offers a cap dump and a B level prospect. Anything more would not be worth it to them. Toronto headed by Burke has been a disaster. They have been unable to find players to fill key positions like #1 centre, #1 goaltender and #1 defenceman. The Leafs need a goaltender and Luongo would fit that bill but Burke has also been quite outspoken against long term contracts. i see Burke having interest in Luongo if he feels he's getting him at a bargain price. With that being said, Burke's need to get the Leafs into the playoffs will likely make him the highest bidder. Toronto offers Franson, Bozak, Kadri/Colborne, 2nd, Lomardi. Burke will need to send a bad contract back to receive what he deems a bad contract. You can take out Lombardi but then also take out Kadri/Colborne or the 2nd. Chicago's goaltending was shkay last season after having solid goaltending from Crawford the year before. Crawford still has two more seasons before he becomes a UFA. Chicago is a team with a model that doesn't spend a lot on goaltending and they won a cup with that model. Their defence is relatively deep along with their forwards. With the rivalry both teams will not want to lose this deal. Chicago offers Frolik, Beach, 1st. Might be a conditional 1st on this year or the next. Edmonton has been in the basement for a few seasons but are looking to get back into the playoff mix. They have loads of talent but aren't going to be selling the future at the for the present. They have Dubnyk who has been improving every season and whose numbers weren't fall off Luongo's last season. They would like to add more stability in net but not at a major cost of the future. Horcoff, Omark, 2014 1st FOR Luongo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Ok, Gollumpus Lets try to find his value. Gillis has said he wants a top 6 forward, a prospect and a 1st. IMO that is the absolute high point. He's not going to ask for less than what he really wants and the market isn't hot enough for Luongo to start an all out bidding war. What teams are legitimately in play for Luongo? To me it's Toronto and Florida with maybe Chicago and Edmonton. Now each team is going to want to pay the least amount possible. Florida does not need Luongo. They know he wants to go there but they have the best goalie prospect in the league in Markstrom and they got good, cheap goaltending from Theodore and Clemmensen. Florida is also a budget team so anything coming in has to have equal dollars going out. What value would they get from acquring Luongo? Not much since they already have decent goaltending and a potential franchise goalie in the making. What it gives them is a "big" trade to gain fan interest, that's about it. Florida offers a cap dump and a B level prospect. Anything more would not be worth it to them. Toronto headed by Burke has been a disaster. They have been unable to find players to fill key positions like #1 centre, #1 goaltender and #1 defenceman. The Leafs need a goaltender and Luongo would fit that bill but Burke has also been quite outspoken against long term contracts. i see Burke having interest in Luongo if he feels he's getting him at a bargain price. With that being said, Burke's need to get the Leafs into the playoffs will likely make him the highest bidder. Toronto offers Franson, Bozak, Kadri/Colborne, 2nd, Lomardi. Burke will need to send a bad contract back to receive what he deems a bad contract. You can take out Lombardi but then also take out Kadri/Colborne or the 2nd. Chicago's goaltending was shkay last season after having solid goaltending from Crawford the year before. Crawford still has two more seasons before he becomes a UFA. Chicago is a team with a model that doesn't spend a lot on goaltending and they won a cup with that model. Their defence is relatively deep along with their forwards. With the rivalry both teams will not want to lose this deal. Chicago offers Frolik, Beach, 1st. Might be a conditional 1st on this year or the next. Edmonton has been in the basement for a few seasons but are looking to get back into the playoff mix. They have loads of talent but aren't going to be selling the future at the for the present. They have Dubnyk who has been improving every season and whose numbers weren't fall off Luongo's last season. They would like to add more stability in net but not at a major cost of the future. Horcoff, Omark, 2014 1st FOR Luongo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted November 2, 2012 Author Share Posted November 2, 2012 Absolutely horrible deal. Horcoff is overpayed, Omark isn't even Oiler property anymore, and the 1st in 2014 is useless. Gagner/Hemsky, Curtis Hamilton and 2013 1st for Luongo matches his value much better than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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