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latest proposal-nov 2 reaction?


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#1 Lui's Knob

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 03:39 PM

From a canucks viewpoint, if the latest offer is accepted and things start nov 2, Does it help or hinder Canucks in terms of timing (injuries for example to garrison, Kesler, Edler) and scheduling (more intense travel in shorter time?)? It would help he Canucks since it means the cap stays the same (slight ceiling increase) and maybe helps with moving the luongo deal...
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#2 Samuel Påhlsson

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 03:48 PM

Wasn't aware Garrison and Edler were hurt?
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#3 Jester@wraiths.ca

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 03:52 PM

Edler has back injury and Garrisson has groin injury, both from before the CBA expired, so they are the only 2 Canucks being paid. They continue to be paid until the doctors say they are recovered.

As for the offer, it sounds good, with 50/50 split and no wage rollbacks, but we don't know everything that's in there, the owners could be trying to use those good things to distract from some other jerk move in the contract...

I haven't been real impressed with what the NHLPA is saying so far though, saying it's a "good start" and something to negotiate from... seriously, if they're getting the 50/50 split, you're not likely to get any better than that. Push too much and it is entirely greed and ego.
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#4 Captain Aerosex

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 03:53 PM

Wasn't aware Garrison and Edler were hurt?


Bomber's got a minor groin injury, I think Edler's getting surgery for a bulging disc? Can't remember about Eddie's injury, but it's in the forum somewhere.

I guess it depends what the alternative results to the season starting are. If the season were to start on November 2nd, then it would definitely help us compared to having the whole season locked out. Our time to win is now, losing a season won't help. But compared to it starting in January or something, then starting on November 2nd could be a hindrance because we'll have more big names out for longer (Kesler, Garrison, Edler) and we'll probably have relatively less points.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves, we don't even know if the season starts on the 2nd. If it does, just be grateful that there is a season and NHL hockey is back.

Edited by Witchcraft and Sedinery, 16 October 2012 - 03:53 PM.

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#5 Samuel Påhlsson

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 03:53 PM

Apparently I've been oblivious since the topic is 2 down from this one.
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#6 goalie13

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 03:57 PM

Edler has back injury and Garrisson has groin injury, both from before the CBA expired, so they are the only 2 Canucks being paid.


I believe Kesler is getting paid for being injured right now too.
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#7 elvis15

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 03:59 PM

Both have minor injuries, and are training with Kesler, who is also being paid during the lockout.

I'm not sure there's any real need for this in it's own thread, especially since there's already an official CBA thread, and a new thread on the current proposal.
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#8 Jester@wraiths.ca

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 04:05 PM

I believe Kesler is getting paid for being injured right now too.


Right, totally forgot about him. so at least the Canucks are paying 3 of their highest paid players during the lockout, lol.
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#9 vwnuck

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 04:20 PM

sign the freaken deal and lets get going..

Edited by vwnuck, 16 October 2012 - 04:22 PM.

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#10 White Goodman

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 04:28 PM

Who cares what it does to injuries, hockey is back and we should all be happy. But it was a smart move by the owners and Bettman, making the offer public, because now if its not excepted we will be asking for Fehr's head instead of Bettman's.
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#11 VanCan2013

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 04:37 PM

I really think the NHLPA should agree to this deal. Maybe make a few minor tweaks if there's a few things they don't like. But they should definitely not refuse the offer because we might have to wait for another week or two in order to get another offer. Kesler can come back late Dec or early Jan and Garrison should be able to go by Nov 2. Edler should also be back but might take a little longer but that's nothing to worry about. Hopefully, they can reschedule the games and season so the season ends a little later than planned. I don't want the games to be crowded cause that will just exhaust the players. Full 82 game season, 50/50...!!! This has to appeal to the NHLPA... they just have to agree to this!
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#12 MikeyBoy44

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 05:28 PM

Condensed schedule might be good as it seems Canucks play better the more games in a row played.
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#13 billabong

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 06:22 PM

i think the season will start on nov.2 BUT it wont be on this prosposal. they will tweak it and take a deep breath and sign the deal

the next week and a half will determine where we are heading....either we start on nov.2 or this thing sinks back into the abyss


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#14 Canucks legend

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 06:28 PM

If the season starts on the 2nd then wat happens to the players in europe.
:emot-parrot: :canucks: :huh:
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#15 Rollieo Del Fuego

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 07:29 PM

If the season starts on the 2nd then wat happens to the players in europe.
:emot-parrot: :canucks: :huh:

They all have escape clauses in there contracts so they will be back.
The NHLPA will not sign the deal for 9 more days to draw out the drama and get as much as possible from Bettman.

Edited by Rollieo Del Fuego, 16 October 2012 - 07:31 PM.

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#16 Where's Wellwood

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 10:49 PM

@@TSNBobMcKenzie

Any existing deal in excess of 5 yrs would carry cap hit in every year of contract, even if player were to retire with year(s) left.
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#17 Where's Wellwood

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 10:57 PM

@TSNBobMcKenzie

Any existing deal in excess of 5 yrs would carry cap hit in every year of contract, even if player were to retire with year(s) left.

@TSNBobMcKenzie

Sorry I lied. Important note on back-diving contracts (BDC). If player traded, then later in deal retires, original club on hook for cap hit


If this is true and it is included in the NHL's 50/50 proposal, that would mean Luongo's contract would screw us no matter what we do with him. The PA has got to either get rid of this or alter it so that it only affects new contracts or something.
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#18 canuck25

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 11:16 PM

Ready to start our Championship Run!!!. Although, having a 82 game schedule starting Nov. 2nd would mean re-working ALL 30 team game schedules which is no easy task. Can it be done given concert, circus, shared basketball and other arena committments?. And what about travel days?. Go Canucks Go!
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#19 Burnsey

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 02:18 AM

Edler has back injury and Garrisson has groin injury, both from before the CBA expired, so they are the only 2 Canucks being paid. They continue to be paid until the doctors say they are recovered.

As for the offer, it sounds good, with 50/50 split and no wage rollbacks, but we don't know everything that's in there, the owners could be trying to use those good things to distract from some other jerk move in the contract...

I haven't been real impressed with what the NHLPA is saying so far though, saying it's a "good start" and something to negotiate from... seriously, if they're getting the 50/50 split, you're not likely to get any better than that. Push too much and it is entirely greed and ego.

Agreed. NHLPA keep/kept going on about a fair deal, this sounds like a fair deal and they say it's something to build from? What do they think the word fair means?Lets hope they sign this deal and get the real season going!!!
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#20 MattJVD

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 12:58 PM

Can someone tell me if I am understanding this corectly? The description on the NHL's main page says; under the new CBA the upper limit for a team's salary is 59 million. While teams are permitted to exceed that number for the 12/13 season only, no team will spend more than the predetermined total of 70.2 million.

So next off-season the salary cap is going to drop over 10 million with no rollbacks on current contracts. How do we clear 10 million in cap and resign Edler, Higgins, and Lappy?
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#21 D.Doughty

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 05:49 PM

Is salo being paid from injuries?
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#22 Gollumpus

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 06:29 PM

@TSNBobMcKenzie

Any existing deal in excess of 5 yrs would carry cap hit in every year of contract, even if player were to retire with year(s) left.

@TSNBobMcKenzie

Sorry I lied. Important note on back-diving contracts (BDC). If player traded, then later in deal retires, original club on hook for cap hit


If this is true and it is included in the NHL's 50/50 proposal, that would mean Luongo's contract would screw us no matter what we do with him. The PA has got to either get rid of this or alter it so that it only affects new contracts or something.


There are some issues about this clause which are important to the players. For example: 1.) the reduced cap space for these teams represents cash which the players won't get; 2.) it would pretty much put a stop to contracts like this where the player is already in his 30's. On the other hand, if you had a chance to sign a player like a Weber (27) or a Suter (27) or a Crosby (25), and you needed to spread the cap hit out beyond 5 years, there will be a lot of teams which will take that risk.

I find it surprising that this got past the owners. Sure, some teams like the Canucks are dinged with Luongo's $5+ million cap hit after he retires (assuming he does retire), but what about teams like Philadelphia who have several guys on these type of contracts? They could wind up being down around $20 million should all these guys retire before the contract expires. And what about those teams which are already borderline in attracting free agents because of a self-imposed payroll restriction? If Rinne and Weber were injured and forced to retire this clause could well sink that team.

I also find it ironic that the owners are once again requiring that the players have to pay to save the owners from themselves.

I suspect that these current, cap circumventing contracts will be grandfathered in to the new CBA, otherwise there's around half the teams in the NHL who are going to be hit with this. If the remainder of the teams press to punish the teams which have issued these contracts then (I believe) around 8 teams can get together and squash this clause.

regards,
G.
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