bure's triple deke Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 With Bieksa's charity game one night away, I thought I'd play devil's advocate to his comments regarding scalpers in the Province's front page last Thursday. This still...kind of...qualifies as Canucks talk, yah? http://burestriplede...as-buddies.html The moral dilemma with Bieksa's Buddies In lieu of the past month's lockout, Kevin Bieksa has rapidly assumed the position of Vancouver's off-season darling. He skates alongside the city's young and aspiring hockey players. He gives us near-NHL-calibre hockey in the name of charity. He even admonishes the local scalper community for driving up the ticket prices. It's as if Captain Planet died and was born again as an NHL defenceman. That said, I hope you'll forgive my reservations about that third act of valour. For those out of the loop or who need refreshing, Bieksa was featured on the front page of last Thursday's Province for lashing out at scalpers reselling his game's tickets for as much as five times the original value – a healthy $100 per seat! My first reaction when reading the article was, alongside all similarly honest and hard-working folk (of course), "Good on ya, Juice!" About time someone publicly called out the black-hearted among us, no? But somehow I found myself magnetically drawn back to that inflated figure: $100 per seat. I have four tickets. (Open my calculator app...) Well that takes care of half the month's rent for a lot of people. Do I dare incur Don't get me wrong. I don't find it a morally thrilling endeavor to scalp, but is it really the evil he makes it out to be? First things first, is Bieksa or anyone else particularly surprised that this is happening? Surely he knows how much actual Canucks tickets can go for on Craigslist. And I'm pretty sure anyone within a square mile can hear the scalpers outside Rogers Arena on a game night. Obviously Bieksa takes special offense here as this is his event, but if it's on moral grounds that he disagrees with scalping, where has his outrage been all these years? Most importantly, however, what exactly is the moral dilemma presented by scalping? I ask the question out of genuine curiosity, because the situation at hand puts me between an easy paycheck and a code of conduct that Bieksa likely shares with many others. His objections stem mostly from the fact that the tickets are for charity. I understand the stigma associated with making a profit in that context and I do question the morality of it myself, but objectively speaking, there are zero proceeds being lost here due to scalping. The maximum amount of money has already been made for the organizations in question. For that reason, I struggle to see how the charities are relevant in this situation. What we have, I believe, is a discussion in the morality of business. Never in my life as a liberal arts student did I think I would be an advocate for capitalism, but let's consider other comparable scenarios here. In the business of real estate, you might buy a house and sell it for profit as the market turns in your favour. In the business of living out of your parents' basement, you might do the same with a well-packaged action figure or hockey card. No ethical dilemmas there, I would imagine. Or say, for example, in another completely random scenario, that you're a professional hockey player and the commodity you possess is your athletic ability. Take the value of your ability on any given year. Due to a wealth of factors, including market demand, free agency, salary inflation and the terms of the era's (yikes) collective bargaining agreement, can you possibly imagine a situation in which you might be paid more than what your same athletic ability was worth at an earlier time? If you can't, then you clearly do not follow NHL hockey or any professional sport, for that matter. Here's the thing: In this current lockout and all the frustration surrounding it, does anyone ever blame the players for accepting the money thrown at them all these years? No. And nor should they. Surely, when the opportunity arises, you sell to the highest possible bidder. At the very least, you sell according to the given market value. For that reason, I fail to see why I should be morally prevented from re-selling my tickets. I speak mostly as the devil's advocate, because you won't actually see my tickets on Craigslist. I willbe happily going to the game in place of a student's fortune. And for the record, Bieksa deserves a tremendous amount of respect for what he's been doing in the community. I simply think his comments regarding scalping could be understood differently with an alternate perspective. So here's to watching one-half of an NHL scrimmage tomorrow. And here's to those making an exorbitant profit on them, too. -HC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drive-By Body Pierce Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Anyone know if said event is to be televised? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flapjacks Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 You gotta be a jerk to scalp tickets for a charity game. I don't see why anybody would bother justifying their actions if they do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksSayEh Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Interesting, it's definitely easy to call out certain shady, yet legal, ways of income when you make a legit NHL salary. Most people aren't going because it's a charity game, they're going because the players are fighting to make 5 mill a year vs 4.7 and this is the closest we're gonna get to a canucks game until the lockout ends. Not something I would do to begin with, but maybe if scalpers donated a portion of their profit that would be suitable. Ps: nucks' ticket prices suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forsy Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I believe the reason for the outrage is that the game was: 1) it was a non-profit/charity event, and 2) to provide "fans a cheap opportunity to see players play during a lockout”. Capitalism, and freedom in our country, of course, gives the person a right to purchase property early, and sell to others for profit at a later time. But Bieksa is not arguing against all scalping at this moment in time, he is talking about Scalping in a charity event. On a separate note, scalping is different from standard forms of middle-man/distribution practices of capitalism. Middle men are there to facilitate the transfer, purchase, export/import or delivery of goods, from sources (ie. overseas) that would otherwise not provide the goods at the expected price (among other reasons). Usually middle men are able to provide lower prices than an individual, because they are able to purchase in bulk from a manufacturer or supplier. The effort and risks they take on justify compensation via mark-ups and profits. Scalping, on the other hand, is the purchase of goods that are easily obtainable by anyone who wishes to purchase those goods. Therefore, scalpers are not providing any valuable service, and thus are only parasitic to the event industry. This is where a moral argument can be made against them. Similarly, even if somehow, scalpers only sold tickets that people would otherwise have thrown away, their compensation is grossly disproportional when compared to the minute service they provide (last minute tickets available for those who are desperate for tickets). A common example of grossly disproportionate compensation for services rendered are banking services/credit facilitation/bank loans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffdeezy Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Free market capitalism is the answer The charity gets it's money either way People willing to pay more for the ticket help the scalper who is trying to make a living This is economics In terms of morals, it's not the best of ideas, but it doesn't hurt the charity one bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSS Corp. Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Free market capitalism is the answer The charity gets it's money either way People willing to pay more for the ticket help the scalper who is trying to make a living This is economics In terms of morals, it's not the best of ideas, but it doesn't hurt the charity one bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bossram Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Is it a little disturbing that people are profiting off of a charity game? Probably. It is morally wrong to resell something for market value?Probably not. It's how our capitalist system works. The article gives great examples of this. The only problem in this situation is that the tickets are for a charity game.However the charity does not lose any potential money from the proceeds, so I don't really see a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bd71 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I'm impressed anyone would pay $100 to see a scrimmage against a University team! That's desperation for quality hockey right there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jovocop55 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 i think people are just over reacting too much.. i mean maybe it's not a good idea to make money but it's been like this for years.. it's just the brokers i hate, like those ppl they interview on the news, they had like 300-400 tickets up on their site.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taelin Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I think it's morally wrong to profit off of a charity event. It's basically making money off donations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Bang Boogie Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Don't buy it from the scalpers. NHL hockey is coming back soon anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forsy Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Free market capitalism is the answer The charity gets it's money either way People willing to pay more for the ticket help the scalper who is trying to make a living This is economics In terms of morals, it's not the best of ideas, but it doesn't hurt the charity one bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derp... Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 If they scalped the tickets and gave the money to the charity good on them... Chance of that happening almost 0%... But hey thats how life is right. Take what you can get and sell it to the highest bidder and who gives a crap as long as you make money. That's how many wealthy people opperate! Why are we in a lockout? Because the people with the goods in demand want to make more money at almost any cost... Smart people scalp tickets, good people start charities, and dumb people buy $100 hockey tickets, guess I'm a dumb person during the regular season. Any one else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n00bxQb Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 You gotta be an asshole to scalp tickets for a charity game. I don't see why anybody would bother justifying their actions if they do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jovocop55 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 If they scalped the tickets and gave the money to the charity good on them... Chance of that happening almost 0%... But hey thats how life is right. Take what you can get and sell it to the highest bidder and who gives a crap as long as you make money. That's how many wealthy people opperate! Why are we in a lockout? Because the people with the goods in demand want to make more money at almost any cost... Smart people scalp tickets, good people start charities, and dumb people buy $100 hockey tickets, guess I'm a dumb person during the regular season. Any one else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodee Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 There is no grey area here. It is wrong to scalp charity tickets. When you claim "that's how life is" you are already on the way down. Why is everyone quoting capitalism?............There can be no capitalism without regulation and morality. That has been proven now beyond doubt, so why quote a discredited economic system as justification for taking greedy advantage of a charity event. We have all been duped by capitalism and yet we continue to give it credence. It has been a system fed to us by the mega rich as a way of their becoming even richer through the greed of the ordinary man. The Western World is going down the drain and soon even the most avid disciples of this evil system will finally come to realise that we have spent the last 50 years digging our own graves. http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-great-american-bubble-machine-20100405 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RainCityFC Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 We aren't Americans... we're not capitalists. Just because you hear the word on TV doesn't make it true. Canadians are socialists. Our country morals are baed on the nationalism introduced in the last century including healthcare, social programs and subsidies of many varieties. In general, our entire system is based on regulating profits and providing handouts to whomever b!tches loudest. For me the reason that this Scalping issue is annoying is that we all work so hard to pay into a system that mostly screws us while we aren't using it and when we need it is barely enough to be considered help. So when some bunch of d-bags decides to take a morally good event that supports people in need and tarnish its integrity with one more way for people to screw the system... it stikes a chord. We all know the Canucks organization is a business out to make a proffit and paying markup is already part of the deal... we make a decision about how much we are willing to pay and go forward from there. If I want to go to a charitable event and support the charity the VALUE matters... for example if I knew only $15ish of my $100 dollar ticket price was going to charity while the remainder was going to costs not associated with the charity whatsoever, there is no way I would support that. From KB's perspective he is trying to support a charitable cause and people are taking advantage of that. If people were willing to pay $100 for a seat he could have sold for that price to start with and donated to several organizations in need. The whole thing stinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stexx Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 well ubc is a public university making a buck off this charity game, they raised parking prices from $6 to $10 for the game. Guess the scalpers arent the only scum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taelin Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 well ubc is a public university making a buck off this charity game, they raised parking prices from $6 to $10 for the game. Guess the scalpers arent the only scum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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