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Checking In On Justin Schultz


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#61 FullMetalOilDrum

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 07:20 PM

where did i say that , he will do something

probably in the khl

If there's a 2 year lockout then yes.
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#62 oldnews

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 12:00 AM

That's exactly what MIke Gillis didn't want to do, a long with at least 20 other teams. Gaurantee a unproven player ice time.

Personally that's fine with me. Too bad we didn't land him. I have no hate against Justin Shultz, it is a very nice quick start to his pro career.


Yes, I agree - that's what Gillis wasn't willing to guarantee him - and I agree entirely with that decision.
King has suggested that that was only a "line" that Gillis used, to make excuses for the fact that he didn't sign here.
King is goint to whine about the fact that Schultz signed in Edmonton ad infinitum.
That's the impetus behind creating this thread.
That reference I quoted above was to illustrate that it was pretty much known throughout the hockey world, and acknowledged in Edmonton, that Schultz was wanting guaranteed ice time - something they could offer but Vancouver could not responsibly commit to - and in addition, the realistic possibility of Schultz achieveing CBA defined bonus conditions are much higher in the Edmonton context. King would like to suggest that Gillis is incompetent instead, and that introducing Schultz to Vigneault somehow caused the whole bid to tank. King is prone to dramatics.
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#63 King of the ES

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 10:33 AM

Yes, I agree - that's what Gillis wasn't willing to guarantee him - and I agree entirely with that decision.
King has suggested that that was only a "line" that Gillis used, to make excuses for the fact that he didn't sign here.
King is goint to whine about the fact that Schultz signed in Edmonton ad infinitum.
That's the impetus behind creating this thread.
That reference I quoted above was to illustrate that it was pretty much known throughout the hockey world, and acknowledged in Edmonton, that Schultz was wanting guaranteed ice time - something they could offer but Vancouver could not responsibly commit to - and in addition, the realistic possibility of Schultz achieveing CBA defined bonus conditions are much higher in the Edmonton context. King would like to suggest that Gillis is incompetent instead, and that introducing Schultz to Vigneault somehow caused the whole bid to tank. King is prone to dramatics.


All you've offered is evidence that it will be EASIER for Schultz to attain his ELC bonuses on the Oilers - not much of a surprise there. And when you're speaking of a guy who might well have a long, long NHL career, the amount of money is immaterial. Do you really think that there's a "guaranteed ice-time" clause in his contract? If he sucks, he WILL NOT PLAY. If you think otherwise, you're dreaming.

In no way is this an excuse for Gillis to not get him - this is the same guy, Mike Gillis, who hinted to season ticket holders at their meeting that Schultz was probably on his way here. What happened after that? Edmonton got Gretzky, Messier, Hall, and RNH into the mix, Vancouver brought Vigneault. And Vancouver finished 3rd. To say that the effort which Edmonton put into it wasn't a factor is not giving them enough credit.

I had said from the start that it would be most logical for him to end up in Edmonton, so I wasn't personally surprised when he signed there. But I can tell you that when I said ON HERE that I felt like he would end up in Edmonton, I was skewered with the same crap that you send to me usually - "you're so negative", "why would anybody want to go to Edmonton?", "he's from Vancouver, he wants to be here", "his parents are season ticket holders", etc. This place had practically started pre-ordering the Schultz Canuck jerseys.

Edited by King of the ES, 22 October 2012 - 10:35 AM.

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#64 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 10:51 AM

All you've offered is evidence that it will be EASIER for Schultz to attain his ELC bonuses on the Oilers - not much of a surprise there. And when you're speaking of a guy who might well have a long, long NHL career, the amount of money is immaterial. Do you really think that there's a "guaranteed ice-time" clause in his contract? If he sucks, he WILL NOT PLAY. If you think otherwise, you're dreaming.

In no way is this an excuse for Gillis to not get him - this is the same guy, Mike Gillis, who hinted to season ticket holders at their meeting that Schultz was probably on his way here. What happened after that? Edmonton got Gretzky, Messier, Hall, and RNH into the mix, Vancouver brought Vigneault. And Vancouver finished 3rd. To say that the effort which Edmonton put into it wasn't a factor is not giving them enough credit.

I had said from the start that it would be most logical for him to end up in Edmonton, so I wasn't personally surprised when he signed there. But I can tell you that when I said ON HERE that I felt like he would end up in Edmonton, I was skewered with the same crap that you send to me usually - "you're so negative", "why would anybody want to go to Edmonton?", "he's from Vancouver, he wants to be here", "his parents are season ticket holders", etc. This place had practically started pre-ordering the Schultz Canuck jerseys.


Nobody has ever said any differently in terms of his "guaranteed ice time"; not even oldnews. He is merely guaranteed a better chance at ice time because Edmonton has got no real D core to speak of. It doesn't matter who was brought in to give him a call but if you think that really matters then you're dreaming; or stretching for an argument. You are absolutely right though...there is no guaranteed ice time if he sucks. Now we just need to figure out who the hell you're arguing with about that. Please bring up an argument about semantics...pretty please.

Seriously though...can we put this silly argument to bed. You win...there's no such thing as actual guaranteed ice time for Schultzy but there is such thing as a higher chance; drastically higher actually. In Edmonton Schultz plays in the NHL short of a massive crapping the bed. Here he'd have to play his arse off to stay out of the press box/AHL.

Edited by EmployeeoftheMonth, 22 October 2012 - 10:55 AM.

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#65 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 02:07 PM

Schultz AHL player of the week. Good pickup by the Oilers there.
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#66 gmen81

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 02:12 PM

I would have loved it if the Canucks signed this guy.
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#67 oldnews

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 06:33 PM

In no way is this an excuse for Gillis to not get him - this is the same guy, Mike Gillis, who hinted to season ticket holders at their meeting that Schultz was probably on his way here. What happened after that? Edmonton got Gretzky, Messier, Hall, and RNH into the mix, Vancouver brought Vigneault. And Vancouver finished 3rd. To say that the effort which Edmonton put into it wasn't a factor is not giving them enough credit.

I had said from the start that it would be most logical for him to end up in Edmonton, so I wasn't personally surprised when he signed there. But I can tell you that when I said ON HERE that I felt like he would end up in Edmonton, I was skewered with the same crap that you send to me usually - "you're so negative", "why would anybody want to go to Edmonton?", "he's from Vancouver, he wants to be here", "his parents are season ticket holders", etc. This place had practically started pre-ordering the Schultz Canuck jerseys.


Feel free to reference where Gillis said that - if you've proven anything in your posts, it is that you very loosely paraphrase people, to the point where you entirely mangle the original statement into what in the end, are your own words/spin.

I can imagine the original statement was something along the lines - "we are making a bid to sign Schultz - feel we have a good opportunity to" - which King turns into "hinted that he was probably on his way here."
That kind of thing has become your typical m.o King - manipulative.

I'm not that concerned, to be honest, that Schultz didn't wind up here - and I thought the depth of the Canucks blueline would be a barrier to him coming here. His camp was indicating that playing time was more important than playing for a contender. I thought the Canucks had a better chance at Garrison, and at this point he fits our needs better than a college prospect who is going to take a few years minimum to be a solid NHL blueliner.

Garrison was the best option on the UFA market and Gillis got er done.

If as you claim, you knew Schultz was going to Edmonton, you can feel free to stop whining at any time, spreading your crocodile tears all over CDC.

Edited by oldnews, 22 October 2012 - 06:57 PM.

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#68 MoneypuckOverlord

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 06:37 PM

Nobody has ever said any differently in terms of his "guaranteed ice time"; not even oldnews. He is merely guaranteed a better chance at ice time because Edmonton has got no real D core to speak of. It doesn't matter who was brought in to give him a call but if you think that really matters then you're dreaming; or stretching for an argument. You are absolutely right though...there is no guaranteed ice time if he sucks. Now we just need to figure out who the hell you're arguing with about that. Please bring up an argument about semantics...pretty please.

Seriously though...can we put this silly argument to bed. You win...there's no such thing as actual guaranteed ice time for Schultzy but there is such thing as a higher chance; drastically higher actually. In Edmonton Schultz plays in the NHL short of a massive crapping the bed. Here he'd have to play his arse off to stay out of the press box/AHL.


Edmonton Gauranteed him ice time. WE know they it, they know it, we all know it. MIke Gillis knows it, Justin Shultz only wanted a 1 way contract. Canucks were leading the race, and was going to sign with Vancouver, but Mike Gillis refused to gaurantee him a one way contract. Then a few days before July 1, news started circulating Kamloops that he was leaing towards Edmonton, because they are willing to offer him a 1way contract, and bam, he signs with Edmonton, refusing to take any hard work to the NHL.

In the end it's

"I'm not sure how some teams work, but we this is not how our team ran"
or something in that line referrencing that MIke Gillis does not gaurantee ice time to players that have 0 nhl games, (Fabbian Brunnstrom)



end thread. I don't give a 2 craps about Justin Shultz, I actually forgot about this guy, I really did, I forgot he existed. I see his name, "oh yea, that guy, signed with Edmonton because he was gauranteed the ice time" If your an oiler fan, save your time.

But again, I have nothing against him, I'm sad he didn't sign with us, but hey, he wanted the best route for himself, If he is able to skip any developement leauge, and a team is willing to do that, good for him. But the truth is Edmonton offered him the gauranteed ice time.
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Players Nikolaj Ehlers have been compared too by the fan base of the Vancouver Canucks.

 

1 Pavel Bure

2 Markus Naslund

3 Nathan Mackkinon

4 Jonathan Drouin.

5 Jonathan Tavares

 

http://bleacherrepor...d-top-prospects

combine results.  Ehlers 5'11 162 lbs of solid rock.  


#69 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 03:28 AM

Him and Gretzky both...

But Messier was just a hole.

he doesnt play on the canucks , so that means he is a bust .right??


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#70 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 03:42 AM

I hate asking; but you need a source to make a statement like that.

Schultz was one of the single most in demand free agents in years. One key reason, beyond his talent, is that he could be only be signed to a max ELC contract according to the old CBA. One point something mill, with any possible bonuses available automatically counting against your cap hit at a total cap hit value of something like $3.8 mill. Schultz had enough leverage, any suitor had no choice but to offer the max contract. I think your talking out of your tail suggesting Gillis offered only a two way contract.



Edmonton Gauranteed him ice time. WE know they it, they know it, we all know it. MIke Gillis knows it, Justin Shultz only wanted a 1 way contract. Canucks were leading the race, and was going to sign with Vancouver, but Mike Gillis refused to gaurantee him a one way contract. Then a few days before July 1, news started circulating Kamloops that he was leaing towards Edmonton, because they are willing to offer him a 1way contract, and bam, he signs with Edmonton, refusing to take any hard work to the NHL.

In the end it's

"I'm not sure how some teams work, but we this is not how our team ran"
or something in that line referrencing that MIke Gillis does not gaurantee ice time to players that have 0 nhl games, (Fabbian Brunnstrom)



end thread. I don't give a 2 craps about Justin Shultz, I actually forgot about this guy, I really did, I forgot he existed. I see his name, "oh yea, that guy, signed with Edmonton because he was gauranteed the ice time" If your an oiler fan, save your time.

But again, I have nothing against him, I'm sad he didn't sign with us, but hey, he wanted the best route for himself, If he is able to skip any developement leauge, and a team is willing to do that, good for him. But the truth is Edmonton offered him the gauranteed ice time.


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#71 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 03:58 AM

This is a fair post.

No I also do not believe Gillis would, or should guarantee ice time. However, I also believe Gillis would have no problem signing the cheque if he earned it!

The cap hit was going to count regardless of whether he hit the bonuses, but if he did it would have pointed to all kinds of good things!

Yes, I agree - that's what Gillis wasn't willing to guarantee him - and I agree entirely with that decision.
King has suggested that that was only a "line" that Gillis used, to make excuses for the fact that he didn't sign here.
King is goint to whine about the fact that Schultz signed in Edmonton ad infinitum.
That's the impetus behind creating this thread.
That reference I quoted above was to illustrate that it was pretty much known throughout the hockey world, and acknowledged in Edmonton, that Schultz was wanting guaranteed ice time - something they could offer but Vancouver could not responsibly commit to - and in addition, the realistic possibility of Schultz achieveing CBA defined bonus conditions are much higher in the Edmonton context. King would like to suggest that Gillis is incompetent instead, and that introducing Schultz to Vigneault somehow caused the whole bid to tank. King is prone to dramatics.


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#72 DownUndaCanuck

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 04:48 AM

I'm sorry, I don't care if he wins the scoring title in the AHL and the Barons win it all, this all means nothing until he plays an NHL game.

Far too many successful AHLers have struggled at the NHL level. It is a completely different game up there playing with the big boys. Schultz loves to play deep and pinch all the time which may work at the AHL level, but the speed of the NHL would leave him caught out of position much more than he is right now. He's still playing with boys as far as I'm concerned.
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#73 Caboose

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 07:56 AM

The general hockey discussion is really the Oilers discussion cause there alway seems to be some story relating to them in here

i understand some of you are like 14 and see young players as the way to go cause you can relate to them i guess

but there a long way away from a cup i mean they finished 2nd last rnh weighs like 60 pounds , hall is going to have an injury plauged career , yakupov is russian so if he doesnt book it to the khl now he will eventually

which leaves eberle , the only true player that will consistently make an impact

shultz is nothing right now ,hes never even played an nhl game so i dont understand the hype

yeah , good luck on that all star team 2 years from now


They're playing in the NHL, you're here talking about it.
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#74 DeNiro

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 07:58 AM

I'm sorry, I don't care if he wins the scoring title in the AHL and the Barons win it all, this all means nothing until he plays an NHL game.

Far too many successful AHLers have struggled at the NHL level. It is a completely different game up there playing with the big boys. Schultz loves to play deep and pinch all the time which may work at the AHL level, but the speed of the NHL would leave him caught out of position much more than he is right now. He's still playing with boys as far as I'm concerned.


He's likely gonna be a solid NHL defensemen, but so are alot of players. He may very very well even be another Mike Green type player, which is great for the Oilers, but the Canucks have enough of those type of defenseman.

And people sometimes forget, this guy is 22 years old and a former 2nd round pick. He should be this good. This is what he was drafted for, and now he's living up to expectations.

We've got a great prospect of our own though in Kevin Connauton. I mean if you wanna compare, Schultz is playing in Oklahoma with all of the Oilers top players (or at least two of their three top guys). Just think about if Connauton played on the number powerplay on the wolves with our top players (the Sedins), don't you think he would put up over a point a game?

Edited by DeNiro, 23 October 2012 - 08:01 AM.

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#75 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 10:06 AM

Gillis should have just gave him a 1 way deal and took the risk.... He could of greatly improved our team with his offense from the back end, I've seen him play and a couple of my buddies have played against him and he really seems like the real deal.

He's fast, NHL speed would not be a problem for him.

You can make the case he's doing so good because he's playing with Eberle and Hopkins but from most Edmonton fans I've heard he's playing a lot better then them, not an easy feat.

Even if he was a bust, couldn't we have waived him or sent him down or traded him?

I don't think Garrison will be anything great, could be another Ballard...
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#76 Justin6Schultz

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 10:32 AM

whys everyone underthings in a scrunch?

pretty simple if you ask me...
  • half the taxes in alta.
  • same ELC annual salary, but refer to point 1
  • young team (just like @ university, a crop of more experienced team-mates awaits yet are similar in age too)
  • max bonus clauses = 2.85 mil, (refer to point 1)
  • all of this close to home (~1hr flight)

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#77 D-Money

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 11:16 AM

Gillis should have just gave him a 1 way deal and took the risk....


Entry-level contract - had to be three years.

Seriously though, why is everybody bashing on Schultzy? He's a great defensive prospect. We'd be absolutely GUSHING if he were doing this for the Wolves.

Don't hate because he took the opportunity to join an up-and-coming offensive juggernaut that desperately needed him. That is a far better opportunity for him than trying to crack our virtually set-in-stone top-4.
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#78 jmfaminoff

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 11:19 AM

I'm glad he chose the Oilers too because Vigneault would eventually bury his career here, for personal reasons of course.

Well said. Have one bad game, and you are relegated to the bottom pairing, unless you are French Canadian.
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#79 oldnews

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 12:03 PM

This is a fair post.

No I also do not believe Gillis would, or should guarantee ice time. However, I also believe Gillis would have no problem signing the cheque if he earned it!

The cap hit was going to count regardless of whether he hit the bonuses, but if he did it would have pointed to all kinds of good things!


The cap hit of 3.75 for a college player who hadn't even hit the AHL yet - on a contender in what most people consider window years - would have been irresponsible of Gillis. If Schultz wasn't willing to sign a two-way deal here - and wasn't confident enough that he could make the team and earn minutes here - it was best to let him go to Edmonton. No one way deals for a young blueliner in this context. Edmonton can risk wasting 3.75 in cap space for a year or two - with the payoff coming when Schultz and their young core develop.
The fact is that things simply didn't line up for Vancouver. Has nothing to do with Gillis not being able to 'get-er-done'.
People can stop whining at anytime.
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#80 avelanch

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 12:09 PM

Gillis should have just gave him a 1 way deal and took the risk.... He could of greatly improved our team with his offense from the back end, I've seen him play and a couple of my buddies have played against him and he really seems like the real deal.

He's fast, NHL speed would not be a problem for him.

You can make the case he's doing so good because he's playing with Eberle and Hopkins but from most Edmonton fans I've heard he's playing a lot better then them, not an easy feat.

Even if he was a bust, couldn't we have waived him or sent him down or traded him?

I don't think Garrison will be anything great, could be another Ballard...

he was forced to have a an ELC, meaning 3 years, 2 way. everyone gave him the exact same contract offer, what edmonton did was guarantee ice time to him, outside of the contract. not enforceable, but would reflect bad on the club if they didn't hold up their end.

Edited by avelanch, 23 October 2012 - 12:11 PM.

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#81 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 04:02 PM

he was forced to have a an ELC, meaning 3 years, 2 way. everyone gave him the exact same contract offer, what edmonton did was guarantee ice time to him, outside of the contract. not enforceable, but would reflect bad on the club if they didn't hold up their end.


Oh okay didn't know that.
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#82 cIutch

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 04:07 PM

They're playing in the NHL, you're here talking about it.

wat
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#83 TheEhrhoffEffect

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 08:51 PM

3 assists tonight. The kid is simply a beast.

Tied for 1st in AHL scoring as well.

Edited by TheEhrhoffEffect, 23 October 2012 - 08:51 PM.

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#84 DeNiro

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 08:57 PM

3 assists tonight. The kid is simply a beast.

Tied for 1st in AHL scoring as well.


I don't wanna act like one of those fans that are trying to downplay this guy.

But he's playing with Eberle and Nugent-Hopkins. These guys are WAY too good to be in the AHL. He's just along for the ride with them, picking up 3 secondary assists (2 off Nugent-Hopkins) on the powerplay.

Edited by DeNiro, 23 October 2012 - 08:58 PM.

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#85 FullMetalOilDrum

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 10:04 PM

9 points in his first 5 AHL games. Still sounds like a bust eh guys?
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#86 DeNiro

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 10:13 PM

9 points in his first 5 AHL games. Still sounds like a bust eh guys?


4 games against Colorado's farm team which sucks.

He got 3 secondary assists on the powerplay tonight literally standing at the blueline doing nothing. Not to mention he's playing with PPG NHL players. It's like us putting one of our prospects with the Sedins in the AHL.

Look, he's gonna be a good offensive defenseman. But I wouldn't brag so soon if I were you. There have been lots of young players that have lit it up in the AHL, only to fall flat on their face in the big leagues. He's not a bust, but he's definietly far from being a star at this point.

Edited by DeNiro, 23 October 2012 - 10:14 PM.

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#87 playboi19

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 10:42 PM

Alex Bolduc has 8 points already.

He's going to be a Superstar guys.

MG missed out.
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#88 Pears

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 10:44 PM

3 assists tonight. The kid is simply a beast.

Tied for 1st in AHL scoring as well.

:(
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#89 Fozzy

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 04:27 AM

4 games against Colorado's farm team which sucks.

He got 3 secondary assists on the powerplay tonight literally standing at the blueline doing nothing. Not to mention he's playing with PPG NHL players. It's like us putting one of our prospects with the Sedins in the AHL.

Look, he's gonna be a good offensive defenseman. But I wouldn't brag so soon if I were you. There have been lots of young players that have lit it up in the AHL, only to fall flat on their face in the big leagues. He's not a bust, but he's definietly far from being a star at this point.


Totally agree with this.
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#90 King of the ES

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 04:44 AM

He's likely gonna be a solid NHL defensemen, but so are alot of players. He may very very well even be another Mike Green type player, which is great for the Oilers, but the Canucks have enough of those type of defenseman.


Um, who?

And people sometimes forget, this guy is 22 years old and a former 2nd round pick. He should be this good. This is what he was drafted for, and now he's living up to expectations.


I guess nobody told Anton Rodin or Yann Sauve of this expectation.
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