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Teen brothers charged for luring then murdering 12 year old girl


Jester@wraiths.ca

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This kind of thing was actually most prevalent during the fur trade. During colonization in Canada, there was a movement away from the seigniorial system. Parents had less supervision of their kids, there was more freedom (and even expectation) for youth to go out for days, unmonitored by their parents. Access to weapons, alcohol, and the corruption associated with the fur trade lead to a change in the public's perceptions of youth and youth crime.

Corporal punishment has actually shown to have a positive relationship with criminal behaviour. Abuse and trauma is associated with, among other things, changes to the brain's phenotypic structure, reducing the ability to feel empathy for others.

The Lord's prayer means nothing in Canada, when you consider that (a) around 30% of the incarcerated population is Aboriginal, and (b )most youth in general do not affiliate with religion. Religion was often a focus during the fur trade, yet crime was still very prevalent. Can you please provide evidence that religion has had efficacy as a treatment option for youth? There is plenty of literature on treatment of adult and youth offenders. If you find any suggesting that religion has a direct effect on reductions in recidivism, I will certainly offer an apology and edit this post.

While you may have a personal opinion on what should be done in response to serious and violent youth, everything in your post is contrary to empirical research. If you want to provide an opinion that isn't going to be ripped apart every time you express it, I suggest you actually read.

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Don't count on either of them spending their lives in jail. Let alone the 15 year old.

Simply follow the example of the fellow that just got let out and don't even bother trying to mend your ways. It's the system to blame and the system will let you out soon enough.

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Don't count on either of them spending their lives in jail. Let alone the 15 year old.

Simply follow the example of the fellow that just got let out and don't even bother trying to mend your ways. It's the system to blame and the system will let you out soon enough.

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I do read.

No, I can not provide off the top of my head "evidence that religion has had efficacy as a treatment option for youth".

The real question is - can it help? Maybe. Maybe not.

They say the Lords prayer at an Aboriginal school that my wife used to teach at.

That school had the lowest "incidents" of any other Aboriginal school in Alberta.

Was it because of the Lord's prayer? I doubt it - but it may have helped.

As far as corporal punishment - I lived through it so yes, I know that it wasn't perfect.

Sometimes it worked - sometimes not.

My reason for bringing it up is that we haven't had it for a long time in Canada nor the US - yet we still have these "incidents".

So it's obvious it wasn't the reason for them - and yes, incidents still happened when it existed - so we are back at square one.

Do I have the answer. Nope.

Here...read this:

http://articles.lati...ro-con-20111226

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http://www.reuters.c...E89N03R20121024

We're really turning out a great generation... The brothers, aged 15 and 17, lured the 12 year old girl to their house, then strangled her...

It's sickening - the crimes that kids are perpetrating... I have a very very low regard for our society, and yet society always seems to be able to be worse than I think. Teenagers strangling a 12 year old girl? And deliberately luring her to do so - that's planned and thought out.

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People...media doesn't really drive anyone to kill anyone. Its more like they had those tendencies already instilled in them and the media just adds in another factor that may aid in criminal offending. For adolesences to engage in criminal behaviour, there's more or less 4 factors that have highest rates of predicting crimes: 1) antisocial attitudes and colleagues (gangs etc), 2) Antisocial cognition/personality, 3) parental/family factors and 4) education/personal achievement.

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Really? The teen brothers decided on their own to go out and kill a little girl.

And while I shed no tears for Omar Khadr and his family it's clear he didn't just happen into that camp on this own and while he very well may have killed a soldier for the soldier that's an occupational hazard.

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I appreciate that you did do work to look up what relevant literature has said (I'm being sincere, no internet sarcasm). However, in virtually all of the following empirical articles and book chapters, abuse is identified as having a strong and positive relationship with future offending:

Cale, J. (2006). Criminology 313- Specific Types of Crime: Serious & Violent Youth. Custom Violence and serious theft: Development and prediction from childhood to adulthood[e2] (pp. 169-229). New York, NY: Routledge.

Howell, J.C., Krisberg, B., & Jones, M. (1995). Trends in juvenile crime and youth violence. In J.C. Howell, B. Krisberg, J.D. Hawkins, & J.J. Wilson (Eds.),
A sourcebook: Serious, violent, & chronic juvenile offending
(pp. 1-35). Thousand Oaks, CA: Sage Publications, Inc.

Treatment of antisocial behavior in children: Current status and future directions. Kazdin, Alan E. Psychological Bulletin, Vol 102(2), Sep 1987, 187-203.

Loeber, R., & Farrington, D. P. (1998). Serious and violent juvenile offenders. In R. Loeber & D. P. Farrington (Eds.), Serious and violent juvenile offenders: Risk factors and successful interventions (pp. 13–29). Thousand Oaks, CA: Sage Publications, [e3] .

Loeber, R., Farrington, D.P., Stouthamer-Loeber, M., Moffitt, T.E., & Caspi, A. (2001). The development of male offending: Key findings from the first decade of the Pittsburgh Youth Study. In R. Bull (Ed.), Children and the law: Essential readings in developmental psychology (pp. 336-380). Oxford, UK: Blackwell Publishers Ltd.

Loeber, R., & Hay, D.F. (1994). Developmental approaches to aggression and conduct problems. In M. Rutter & D.F. Hay (Eds.), Development through life: A handbook for clinicians (pp. 448-516). London, UK: Blackwell Scientific Publications.

Loeber, R., & Stouthamer-Loeber, M. (1996). The development of offending. Criminal Justice and Behavior 23(1), 12-24.

Loeber, R., & Stouthamer-Loeber, M. (1998). Development of juvenile aggression and violence: Some common misconceptions and controversies. American Psychologist 52(2), 242-259.

Moffitt, T.E. (1993). "Life-course-persistent" and "adolescent-limited" antisocial behavior: A developmental taxonomy. Psychological Review 100, 974-701.

Moffitt, T.E., Caspi, A., Harrington, H., & Milne, B.J. (2002). Males on the life-course-persistent and adolescence-limited antisocial pathways: Follow-up at age 26 years. Development and Psychopathology 14, 179-207.

Patterson, G.R., Forgatch, M.S., Yoerger, K.L., & Stoolmiller, M. (1998). Variables that initiate and maintain an early-onset trajectory of juvenile offending. Development and Psychopathology 10, 531-547.

Piquero, A.R., & Brezina, T. (2006). Testing Moffitt’s account of Adolescence-Limited delinquency. Criminology 39(2), 353-370.

Piquero, A.R., Farrington, D.P., & Blumstein, A. (2007). Key issues in criminal career research: New analyses of the Cambridge Study in delinquent development. Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press.

Piquero, A.R., & Moffitt, T.E. (2008). Explaining the facts of crime: How the developmental taxonomy replies to Farrington’s invitation. In D.P. Farrington (Ed.), Integrated development & life-course theories of offending (Vol. 14, pp. 51-72). New Brunswick, NJ: Transaction Publishers.

Robins, L. (1966). Deviant children grown up: A sociological and psychiatric study of sociopathic personality. Baltimore, MD: Williams and Wilkins.

Sampson, R.J., & Laub, J.H. (1992). Crime and deviance in the life course. Annual Review of Sociology 18, 63-84.

Sampson, R.J., & Laub, J.H. (2003). Life-course desisters? Trajectories of crime among delinquent boys followed to age 70. Criminology 41, 555-592.

Savage, J. (2009). Understanding persistent offending: Linking developmental psychology with research on the criminal career. In J. Savage (Ed.), The development of persistent criminality (pp. 3-33). Oxford, UK: Oxford University Press.

Schubert, C.A., Mulvey, E.P., Loughran, T.A., & Losoya, S.H. (2012) Perceptions of institutional experience and community outcomes for serious adolescent offenders. Criminal Justice and Behavior 39(1), 71-93.

Thornberry, T.P., Huizinga, D., & Loeber, R. (1995). The prevention of serious delinquency and violence: Implications from the program of research on the causes and correlates of delinquency. In J.C. Howell, B. Krisberg, J.D. Hawkins, & J.J. Wilson (Eds.), A sourcebook: Serious, violent, & chronic juvenile offending (pp. 213-237). Thousand Oaks, CA: SAGE Publications, Inc.

Tracy, P.E., Wolfgang, M.E., Figlio, R.M. (1990). Delinquency careers in two birth cohorts. New York, NY: Plenum Press.

Tremblay, R.E., & Nagin, D.S. (2005). The developmental origins of physical aggression in humans. In R.E. Tremblay, W.W.

Hartup, & J. Archer (Eds.), Developmental origins of aggression (pp. 83-106). New York, NY: The Guilford Press.

White, H.R., Bates, M.E., & Buyske, S. (2001). Adolescence-limited versus persistent delinquency: Examining Moffitt’s hypothesis into adulthood. Journal of Abnormal Psychology 110(4), 600-609

While corporal punishment may have worked in some cases, in other cases it would have lead to direct aggravation of future risk for antisocial and/or criminal behaviour. There are methods other than corporal punishment that are equally (if not moreso effective) that do not carry the same risks that corporal punishment does.

EDIT:

In regard to the article that you listed, the type of corporal punishment that had positive outcomes involved two light slaps to the buttocks of children aged 2-6 which was followed by the parent(s) re-affirming their love for the child afterward.

So these findings (a) don't support the use of corporal punishment in schools, (b ) suggest that corporal punishment be very minimal (i.e. no use of the strap), and © suggest that children be handled tenderly following spanking.

So, corporal punishment will not be effective when used by teachers, when used excessively, when used with a degree of force, and when not followed with positive parenting.

I think this quote from the article you cited is most telling (found on the second page):

So, kids whose parents use a balance of love and limits, that includes backup spanking, were found to have better outcomes than overly permissive parents and parents who used punitive/authoritarian parenting styles. The key in this research is that authoritative (not authoritarian) parents who didn't spank children were included in the same group that used backup spanking. In this research, there was no way to tease apart the differences between authoritarian parents who didn't spank, and authoritarian parents who did spank. So, the research doesn't even suggest that light spanking as a backup plan works better when compared to authoritative parents who do not spank. It may still be that the differences between the balanced parenting group and the permissive and punitive parenting groups were due to the better outcomes of children who were parented using an authoritative style that did not include spanking.

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http://www.reuters.c...E89N03R20121024

We're really turning out a great generation... The brothers, aged 15 and 17, lured the 12 year old girl to their house, then strangled her...

It's sickening - the crimes that kids are perpetrating... I have a very very low regard for our society, and yet society always seems to be able to be worse than I think. Teenagers strangling a 12 year old girl? And deliberately luring her to do so - that's planned and thought out.

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Every generation thinks the next generation is the end of civilization. And no, this time its not different. Its been happening since before civilization was civilized. Theres a note written by a teacher lamenting how "children today" no longer respect their elders or authority and act like animals and how she fears for the next generation. That note was on a stone tablet in a Greek ruin. carved 2700 years ago. Think psychopathic tendencies are new to the last 100 years?

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http://www.reuters.c...E89N03R20121024

We're really turning out a great generation... The brothers, aged 15 and 17, lured the 12 year old girl to their house, then strangled her...

It's sickening - the crimes that kids are perpetrating... I have a very very low regard for our society, and yet society always seems to be able to be worse than I think. Teenagers strangling a 12 year old girl? And deliberately luring her to do so - that's planned and thought out.

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I won't ignore your question nor tell you to search the internet and find out for yourself as at least one individual here would do.

Who says God neglected them?

Why would I pray to God even though there's so much hate in this world?

Because there is so much hate in this world.

Man fell, we live in a world of sin - it's our own fault.

Sure, you can blame God or other things like Religion, parents, etc...in the end it comes down to each and everyone of us.

Let me put it in a hockey way.

Think of God as a coach - except there are rules - rule that He doesn't want to break.

The coach can't make a player play he wants him to - he can only guide and teach him the way to play.

The player is going to make mistakes - the coach is there to help the player get through those mistakes - not to stop him from making them and/or go back in time and prevent him from making those mistakes.

The coach gives the player choices.

The player chooses on his own free will - for he is not a robot.

Why do I pray?

If you want a scientific type of an answer then I would say because it makes me feel better.

If you want a spiritual answer, then I would say because it's the right thing to do. That it is a way to communicate to God. It gives me hope. Peace.

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