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Teen brothers charged for luring then murdering 12 year old girl


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#31 SkeeterHansen

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 01:25 PM

It still, to this day, hurts to think about the last moments of that boys life. I remember when I first heard about that, I honestly felt sick to my stomach. I can't, for the life of me, understand how people get pleasure out of torturing another being(human or not). That is just so far beyond me.

My thoughts are with the little girls family. Can't imagine what they are going through. :sadno:


It's got to be a very rough time. My prayers are with them as well.
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/=S=/


#32 Jägermeister

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 01:42 PM

Hopefully they both get charged as adults and spend the rest of their lives in prison.
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#33 nowhereman

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 01:48 PM

http://www.reuters.c...E89N03R20121024

We're really turning out a great generation... The brothers, aged 15 and 17, lured the 12 year old girl to their house, then strangled her...

Two murderous teens do not represent the majority of generation. The whole "kids these days..."-mentality has always been a bit hyperbolic. Murderous children are not a new phenomenon:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_bell
http://en.wikipedia....Smith_(murderer)
http://en.wikipedia..../George_Stinney
http://en.wikipedia....ki/Graham_Young
http://en.wikipedia....i/Jesse_Pomeroy
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#34 J.R.

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 01:51 PM

Yeah... corporal punishment teaches kids to be violent...right...something that hasn't existed for what...40 years? is teaching these kids to be violent.

Brilliant...

As far as attacking - yes you did - if you simply said, well..the facts are that violent crime among kids is lower today then in 1966 and here's the source for that - then that would be non threatening/attacking.

Facepalming someone because of their "feeling" is illogical - maybe to make fun of them - then yes - but what's another word for making fun of someone?

If you're going to be all FACTS are FACTS kind of guy when replying to posts then you better back it up with more then a :picard:


:picard: Corporal punishment (and physical abuse) does still exist... Just because something is no longer publicly condoned or promoted (for good reason), does not mean it doesn't exist. It amazes me I need explain this.

As I and many others have told you many times. If you feel someone is attacking you rather than your ideas, you know where the report button is. It's a much better solution than littering the board. Though I doubt you'll get any satisfaction there as no-one's attacking you. If you don't want your ignorant ideas with no basis in reality to be confronted, I suggest you re-examine them and/or your desire to share them on a public forum.

Those facts have already been posted numerous times in numerous threads by numerous other users. If you couldn't bother to read, comprehend or otherwise absorb that data then, why would I waste my time re-posting it now?
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#35 Special Ed

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 01:55 PM

Lock the parents up too.
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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

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#36 Tearloch7

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 02:13 PM

Lock the parents up too.


If parents were actually held accountable for their offspring, the abortion rate would sky-rocket .. true story ..
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#37 Jester@wraiths.ca

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 02:22 PM

Two murderous teens do not represent the majority of generation. The whole "kids these days..."-mentality has always been a bit hyperbolic. Murderous children are not a new phenomenon:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_bell
http://en.wikipedia....Smith_(murderer)
http://en.wikipedia..../George_Stinney
http://en.wikipedia....ki/Graham_Young
http://en.wikipedia....i/Jesse_Pomeroy


There have always been children who killed, but seeing one abhorrent case every couple of decades certainly seems different from the rate we're seeing these things now...

the link below is pretty interesting, very in depth actually, about children who were murderers in the past, and different types of child killers.

http://www.trutv.com...s2/index_1.html
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#38 Heretic

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 02:23 PM

:picard: Corporal punishment (and physical abuse) does still exist... Just because something is no longer publicly condoned or promoted (for good reason), does not mean it doesn't exist. It amazes me I need explain this.

As I and many others have told you many times. If you feel someone is attacking you rather than your ideas, you know where the report button is. It's a much better solution than littering the board. Though I doubt you'll get any satisfaction there as no-one's attacking you. If you don't want your ignorant ideas with no basis in reality to be confronted, I suggest you re-examine them and/or your desire to share them on a public forum.

Those facts have already been posted numerous times in numerous threads by numerous other users. If you couldn't bother to read, comprehend or otherwise absorb that data then, why would I waste my time re-posting it now?


Nice dodge. ZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Why would you waste your time at all then? Wow...I give up - you win. Feel better?
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#39 Stefan

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 02:46 PM

Nice dodge. ZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Why would you waste your time at all then? Wow...I give up - you win. Feel better?

Respond to my messages. I want to know why anyone would want to pray to something that neglected these kids to begin with?
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gallery_9059_470_12899.jpg


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Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse.



 

#40 J.R.

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 02:49 PM

Nice dodge. ZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Why would you waste your time at all then? Wow...I give up - you win. Feel better?


Well do you really need me to regurgitate the multitudes of data about why corporal punishment is wrong and does nothing to curb bad behaviour? Really? It's been posted numerous time and is available with a quick Google search if you feel you need a re-read and might actually absorb it this time.

Never mind that as it relates to this thread, do you really think corporal punishment would have done anything to stop what appears to be sociopathic behaviour? These two boys obviously have much larger problems than whether or not they were spanked or went to church.

But go ahead, keep posting ignorant, irrational ideas based on nothing more than reactionary feelings as opposed to data, logic and common sense. Perhaps we can burn their mother for being a witch too.
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#41 bjh

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 02:53 PM

Why facepalm? Tell me how that helps anything?

There are more kids dying today then 50 years ago - by other kids.

Tell me what evidence are you talking about?



There are also a lot more kids than there were 50 years ago, right?
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#42 Heretic

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 03:05 PM

Respond to my messages. I want to know why anyone would want to pray to something that neglected these kids to begin with?


I won't ignore your question nor tell you to search the internet and find out for yourself as at least one individual here would do.

Who says God neglected them?

Why would I pray to God even though there's so much hate in this world?

Because there is so much hate in this world.

Man fell, we live in a world of sin - it's our own fault.
Sure, you can blame God or other things like Religion, parents, etc...in the end it comes down to each and everyone of us.

Let me put it in a hockey way.
Think of God as a coach - except there are rules - rule that He doesn't want to break.

The coach can't make a player play he wants him to - he can only guide and teach him the way to play.
The player is going to make mistakes - the coach is there to help the player get through those mistakes - not to stop him from making them and/or go back in time and prevent him from making those mistakes.
The coach gives the player choices.
The player chooses on his own free will - for he is not a robot.

Why do I pray?
If you want a scientific type of an answer then I would say because it makes me feel better.
If you want a spiritual answer, then I would say because it's the right thing to do. That it is a way to communicate to God. It gives me hope. Peace.
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#43 Heretic

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 03:07 PM

There are also a lot more kids than there were 50 years ago, right?


Yes - a lot more.
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#44 J.R.

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 03:29 PM

Yes - a lot more.


So it would stand to reason that if there's a say 1% rate of sociopathy in the general population and there is say 1.5 time the population....
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#45 Down by the River

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 03:45 PM

Bring back the strap and maybe the Lords prayer.

Sickening that young people do this...sorry, this kind of thing just didn't happen when I was a kid...

RIP Autumn....RIP....


This kind of thing was actually most prevalent during the fur trade. During colonization in Canada, there was a movement away from the seigniorial system. Parents had less supervision of their kids, there was more freedom (and even expectation) for youth to go out for days, unmonitored by their parents. Access to weapons, alcohol, and the corruption associated with the fur trade lead to a change in the public's perceptions of youth and youth crime.

Corporal punishment has actually shown to have a positive relationship with criminal behaviour. Abuse and trauma is associated with, among other things, changes to the brain's phenotypic structure, reducing the ability to feel empathy for others.

The Lord's prayer means nothing in Canada, when you consider that (a) around 30% of the incarcerated population is Aboriginal, and (b )most youth in general do not affiliate with religion. Religion was often a focus during the fur trade, yet crime was still very prevalent. Can you please provide evidence that religion has had efficacy as a treatment option for youth? There is plenty of literature on treatment of adult and youth offenders. If you find any suggesting that religion has a direct effect on reductions in recidivism, I will certainly offer an apology and edit this post.

While you may have a personal opinion on what should be done in response to serious and violent youth, everything in your post is contrary to empirical research. If you want to provide an opinion that isn't going to be ripped apart every time you express it, I suggest you actually read.

Edited by Down by the River, 24 October 2012 - 03:56 PM.

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OMG we could've had McKeown!

I think Virtanen was a terrible pick given that he's out for 6 months which will hinder his development. You don't pick someone at #6 under that circumstance, along with the fact that he was given a 3/5 IQ (aka he's dumb). 

God dammit Benning. WHY VIRTANEN? Terrible move.

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#46 Peaches

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 03:47 PM

:picard: :sick: :(


That's sickening.
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Feminism will be outlawed. Mostly because it's a backwards idiotic viewpoint that doesn't serve any real progressive purpose.


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#47 Heretic

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 04:24 PM

This kind of thing was actually most prevalent during the fur trade. During colonization in Canada, there was a movement away from the seigniorial system. Parents had less supervision of their kids, there was more freedom (and even expectation) for youth to go out for days, unmonitored by their parents. Access to weapons, alcohol, and the corruption associated with the fur trade lead to a change in the public's perceptions of youth and youth crime.

Corporal punishment has actually shown to have a positive relationship with criminal behaviour. Abuse and trauma is associated with, among other things, changes to the brain's phenotypic structure, reducing the ability to feel empathy for others.

The Lord's prayer means nothing in Canada, when you consider that (a) around 30% of the incarcerated population is Aboriginal, and (b )most youth in general do not affiliate with religion. Religion was often a focus during the fur trade, yet crime was still very prevalent. Can you please provide evidence that religion has had efficacy as a treatment option for youth? There is plenty of literature on treatment of adult and youth offenders. If you find any suggesting that religion has a direct effect on reductions in recidivism, I will certainly offer an apology and edit this post.

While you may have a personal opinion on what should be done in response to serious and violent youth, everything in your post is contrary to empirical research. If you want to provide an opinion that isn't going to be ripped apart every time you express it, I suggest you actually read.


I do read.

No, I can not provide off the top of my head "evidence that religion has had efficacy as a treatment option for youth".

The real question is - can it help? Maybe. Maybe not.
They say the Lords prayer at an Aboriginal school that my wife used to teach at.
That school had the lowest "incidents" of any other Aboriginal school in Alberta.
Was it because of the Lord's prayer? I doubt it - but it may have helped.

As far as corporal punishment - I lived through it so yes, I know that it wasn't perfect.
Sometimes it worked - sometimes not.

My reason for bringing it up is that we haven't had it for a long time in Canada nor the US - yet we still have these "incidents".

So it's obvious it wasn't the reason for them - and yes, incidents still happened when it existed - so we are back at square one.

Do I have the answer. Nope.

Here...read this:

http://articles.lati...ro-con-20111226
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#48 ronthecivil

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 04:29 PM

Don't count on either of them spending their lives in jail. Let alone the 15 year old.

Simply follow the example of the fellow that just got let out and don't even bother trying to mend your ways. It's the system to blame and the system will let you out soon enough.
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#49 taxi

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 04:37 PM

Interesting seeing the repsonses here vs. the Khadr thread. Both 15 year olds. Both killers. One should be let off scot free, and the other given the chair.
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#50 pimpcurtly

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 04:40 PM

Don't count on either of them spending their lives in jail. Let alone the 15 year old.

Simply follow the example of the fellow that just got let out and don't even bother trying to mend your ways. It's the system to blame and the system will let you out soon enough.


Well, I like to think they got the Kimberly Proctor case right, but time will tell if they get paroled or not(they better not :mad: )
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#51 Down by the River

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 04:43 PM

I do read.

No, I can not provide off the top of my head "evidence that religion has had efficacy as a treatment option for youth".

The real question is - can it help? Maybe. Maybe not.
They say the Lords prayer at an Aboriginal school that my wife used to teach at.
That school had the lowest "incidents" of any other Aboriginal school in Alberta.
Was it because of the Lord's prayer? I doubt it - but it may have helped.

As far as corporal punishment - I lived through it so yes, I know that it wasn't perfect.
Sometimes it worked - sometimes not.

My reason for bringing it up is that we haven't had it for a long time in Canada nor the US - yet we still have these "incidents".

So it's obvious it wasn't the reason for them - and yes, incidents still happened when it existed - so we are back at square one.

Do I have the answer. Nope.

Here...read this:

http://articles.lati...ro-con-20111226


I appreciate that you did do work to look up what relevant literature has said (I'm being sincere, no internet sarcasm). However, in virtually all of the following empirical articles and book chapters, abuse is identified as having a strong and positive relationship with future offending:

Cale, J. (2006). Criminology 313- Specific Types of Crime: Serious & Violent Youth. Custom Violence and serious theft: Development and prediction from childhood to adulthood[e2] (pp. 169-229). New York, NY: Routledge.

Howell, J.C., Krisberg, B., & Jones, M. (1995). Trends in juvenile crime and youth violence. In J.C. Howell, B. Krisberg, J.D. Hawkins, & J.J. Wilson (Eds.), A sourcebook: Serious, violent, & chronic juvenile offending (pp. 1-35). Thousand Oaks, CA: Sage Publications, Inc.


Treatment of antisocial behavior in children: Current status and future directions. Kazdin, Alan E. Psychological Bulletin, Vol 102(2), Sep 1987, 187-203.


Loeber, R., & Farrington, D. P. (1998). Serious and violent juvenile offenders. In R. Loeber & D. P. Farrington (Eds.), Serious and violent juvenile offenders: Risk factors and successful interventions (pp. 13–29). Thousand Oaks, CA: Sage Publications, [e3] .

Loeber, R., Farrington, D.P., Stouthamer-Loeber, M., Moffitt, T.E., & Caspi, A. (2001). The development of male offending: Key findings from the first decade of the Pittsburgh Youth Study. In R. Bull (Ed.), Children and the law: Essential readings in developmental psychology (pp. 336-380). Oxford, UK: Blackwell Publishers Ltd.

Loeber, R., & Hay, D.F. (1994). Developmental approaches to aggression and conduct problems. In M. Rutter & D.F. Hay (Eds.), Development through life: A handbook for clinicians (pp. 448-516). London, UK: Blackwell Scientific Publications.

Loeber, R., & Stouthamer-Loeber, M. (1996). The development of offending. Criminal Justice and Behavior 23(1), 12-24.

Loeber, R., & Stouthamer-Loeber, M. (1998). Development of juvenile aggression and violence: Some common misconceptions and controversies. American Psychologist 52(2), 242-259.

Moffitt, T.E. (1993). "Life-course-persistent" and "adolescent-limited" antisocial behavior: A developmental taxonomy. Psychological Review 100, 974-701.

Moffitt, T.E., Caspi, A., Harrington, H., & Milne, B.J. (2002). Males on the life-course-persistent and adolescence-limited antisocial pathways: Follow-up at age 26 years. Development and Psychopathology 14, 179-207.

Patterson, G.R., Forgatch, M.S., Yoerger, K.L., & Stoolmiller, M. (1998). Variables that initiate and maintain an early-onset trajectory of juvenile offending. Development and Psychopathology 10, 531-547.

Piquero, A.R., & Brezina, T. (2006). Testing Moffitt’s account of Adolescence-Limited delinquency. Criminology 39(2), 353-370.

Piquero, A.R., Farrington, D.P., & Blumstein, A. (2007). Key issues in criminal career research: New analyses of the Cambridge Study in delinquent development. Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press.

Piquero, A.R., & Moffitt, T.E. (2008). Explaining the facts of crime: How the developmental taxonomy replies to Farrington’s invitation. In D.P. Farrington (Ed.), Integrated development & life-course theories of offending (Vol. 14, pp. 51-72). New Brunswick, NJ: Transaction Publishers.

Robins, L. (1966). Deviant children grown up: A sociological and psychiatric study of sociopathic personality. Baltimore, MD: Williams and Wilkins.

Sampson, R.J., & Laub, J.H. (1992). Crime and deviance in the life course. Annual Review of Sociology 18, 63-84.

Sampson, R.J., & Laub, J.H. (2003). Life-course desisters? Trajectories of crime among delinquent boys followed to age 70. Criminology 41, 555-592.

Savage, J. (2009). Understanding persistent offending: Linking developmental psychology with research on the criminal career. In J. Savage (Ed.), The development of persistent criminality (pp. 3-33). Oxford, UK: Oxford University Press.

Schubert, C.A., Mulvey, E.P., Loughran, T.A., & Losoya, S.H. (2012) Perceptions of institutional experience and community outcomes for serious adolescent offenders. Criminal Justice and Behavior 39(1), 71-93.

Thornberry, T.P., Huizinga, D., & Loeber, R. (1995). The prevention of serious delinquency and violence: Implications from the program of research on the causes and correlates of delinquency. In J.C. Howell, B. Krisberg, J.D. Hawkins, & J.J. Wilson (Eds.), A sourcebook: Serious, violent, & chronic juvenile offending (pp. 213-237). Thousand Oaks, CA: SAGE Publications, Inc.

Tracy, P.E., Wolfgang, M.E., Figlio, R.M. (1990). Delinquency careers in two birth cohorts. New York, NY: Plenum Press.
Tremblay, R.E., & Nagin, D.S. (2005). The developmental origins of physical aggression in humans. In R.E. Tremblay, W.W.

Hartup, & J. Archer (Eds.), Developmental origins of aggression (pp. 83-106). New York, NY: The Guilford Press.

White, H.R., Bates, M.E., & Buyske, S. (2001). Adolescence-limited versus persistent delinquency: Examining Moffitt’s hypothesis into adulthood. Journal of Abnormal Psychology 110(4), 600-609


While corporal punishment may have worked in some cases, in other cases it would have lead to direct aggravation of future risk for antisocial and/or criminal behaviour. There are methods other than corporal punishment that are equally (if not moreso effective) that do not carry the same risks that corporal punishment does.


EDIT:

In regard to the article that you listed, the type of corporal punishment that had positive outcomes involved two light slaps to the buttocks of children aged 2-6 which was followed by the parent(s) re-affirming their love for the child afterward.

So these findings (a) don't support the use of corporal punishment in schools, (b ) suggest that corporal punishment be very minimal (i.e. no use of the strap), and © suggest that children be handled tenderly following spanking.

So, corporal punishment will not be effective when used by teachers, when used excessively, when used with a degree of force, and when not followed with positive parenting.

I think this quote from the article you cited is most telling (found on the second page):

In several studies, kids whose parents used a balance of love and limits, including backup spanking, were found to be doing much better 10 years later during adolescence than kids whose parents were overly punitive and did not show love in various ways to the child. They were also doing better than kids whose parents were permissive, emphasizing love and reasoning to the near-exclusion of any kind of negative consequences.


So, kids whose parents use a balance of love and limits, that includes backup spanking, were found to have better outcomes than overly permissive parents and parents who used punitive/authoritarian parenting styles. The key in this research is that authoritative (not authoritarian) parents who didn't spank children were included in the same group that used backup spanking. In this research, there was no way to tease apart the differences between authoritarian parents who didn't spank, and authoritarian parents who did spank. So, the research doesn't even suggest that light spanking as a backup plan works better when compared to authoritative parents who do not spank. It may still be that the differences between the balanced parenting group and the permissive and punitive parenting groups were due to the better outcomes of children who were parented using an authoritative style that did not include spanking.

Edited by Down by the River, 24 October 2012 - 04:55 PM.

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OMG we could've had McKeown!

I think Virtanen was a terrible pick given that he's out for 6 months which will hinder his development. You don't pick someone at #6 under that circumstance, along with the fact that he was given a 3/5 IQ (aka he's dumb). 

God dammit Benning. WHY VIRTANEN? Terrible move.

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#52 ronthecivil

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 04:48 PM

Interesting seeing the repsonses here vs. the Khadr thread. Both 15 year olds. Both killers. One should be let off scot free, and the other given the chair.


Really? The teen brothers decided on their own to go out and kill a little girl.

And while I shed no tears for Omar Khadr and his family it's clear he didn't just happen into that camp on this own and while he very well may have killed a soldier for the soldier that's an occupational hazard.
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#53 Offensive Threat

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 04:51 PM

http://www.reuters.c...E89N03R20121024

We're really turning out a great generation... The brothers, aged 15 and 17, lured the 12 year old girl to their house, then strangled her...

It's sickening - the crimes that kids are perpetrating... I have a very very low regard for our society, and yet society always seems to be able to be worse than I think. Teenagers strangling a 12 year old girl? And deliberately luring her to do so - that's planned and thought out.


Every generation thinks the next generation is the end of civilization. And no, this time its not different. Its been happening since before civilization was civilized. Theres a note written by a teacher lamenting how "children today" no longer respect their elders or authority and act like animals and how she fears for the next generation. That note was on a stone tablet in a Greek ruin. carved 2700 years ago. Think psychopathic tendencies are new to the last 100 years?
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#54 Hyzer

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 04:52 PM

People...media doesn't really drive anyone to kill anyone. Its more like they had those tendencies already instilled in them and the media just adds in another factor that may aid in criminal offending. For adolesences to engage in criminal behaviour, there's more or less 4 factors that have highest rates of predicting crimes: 1) antisocial attitudes and colleagues (gangs etc), 2) Antisocial cognition/personality, 3) parental/family factors and 4) education/personal achievement.
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#55 taxi

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 04:52 PM

Really? The teen brothers decided on their own to go out and kill a little girl.

And while I shed no tears for Omar Khadr and his family it's clear he didn't just happen into that camp on this own and while he very well may have killed a soldier for the soldier that's an occupational hazard.


I don't see what makes this 15 year old more culpable than Khadr. Both 15, and their brains have had the same development. If Khadr's society and his father influenced him to build IEDs, how didn't Western society and the brother influence this 15 year old?
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#56 Hyzer

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 04:56 PM

I appreciate that you did do work to look up what relevant literature has said (I'm being sincere, no internet sarcasm). However, in virtually all of the following empirical articles and book chapters, abuse is identified as having a strong and positive relationship with future offending:

Cale, J. (2006). Criminology 313- Specific Types of Crime: Serious & Violent Youth. Custom Violence and serious theft: Development and prediction from childhood to adulthood[e2] (pp. 169-229). New York, NY: Routledge.

Howell, J.C., Krisberg, B., & Jones, M. (1995). Trends in juvenile crime and youth violence. In J.C. Howell, B. Krisberg, J.D. Hawkins, & J.J. Wilson (Eds.), A sourcebook: Serious, violent, & chronic juvenile offending (pp. 1-35). Thousand Oaks, CA: Sage Publications, Inc.


Treatment of antisocial behavior in children: Current status and future directions. Kazdin, Alan E. Psychological Bulletin, Vol 102(2), Sep 1987, 187-203.


Loeber, R., & Farrington, D. P. (1998). Serious and violent juvenile offenders. In R. Loeber & D. P. Farrington (Eds.), Serious and violent juvenile offenders: Risk factors and successful interventions (pp. 13–29). Thousand Oaks, CA: Sage Publications, [e3] .

Loeber, R., Farrington, D.P., Stouthamer-Loeber, M., Moffitt, T.E., & Caspi, A. (2001). The development of male offending: Key findings from the first decade of the Pittsburgh Youth Study. In R. Bull (Ed.), Children and the law: Essential readings in developmental psychology (pp. 336-380). Oxford, UK: Blackwell Publishers Ltd.

Loeber, R., & Hay, D.F. (1994). Developmental approaches to aggression and conduct problems. In M. Rutter & D.F. Hay (Eds.), Development through life: A handbook for clinicians (pp. 448-516). London, UK: Blackwell Scientific Publications.

Loeber, R., & Stouthamer-Loeber, M. (1996). The development of offending. Criminal Justice and Behavior 23(1), 12-24.

Loeber, R., & Stouthamer-Loeber, M. (1998). Development of juvenile aggression and violence: Some common misconceptions and controversies. American Psychologist 52(2), 242-259.

Moffitt, T.E. (1993). "Life-course-persistent" and "adolescent-limited" antisocial behavior: A developmental taxonomy. Psychological Review 100, 974-701.

Moffitt, T.E., Caspi, A., Harrington, H., & Milne, B.J. (2002). Males on the life-course-persistent and adolescence-limited antisocial pathways: Follow-up at age 26 years. Development and Psychopathology 14, 179-207.

Patterson, G.R., Forgatch, M.S., Yoerger, K.L., & Stoolmiller, M. (1998). Variables that initiate and maintain an early-onset trajectory of juvenile offending. Development and Psychopathology 10, 531-547.

Piquero, A.R., & Brezina, T. (2006). Testing Moffitt’s account of Adolescence-Limited delinquency. Criminology 39(2), 353-370.

Piquero, A.R., Farrington, D.P., & Blumstein, A. (2007). Key issues in criminal career research: New analyses of the Cambridge Study in delinquent development. Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press.

Piquero, A.R., & Moffitt, T.E. (2008). Explaining the facts of crime: How the developmental taxonomy replies to Farrington’s invitation. In D.P. Farrington (Ed.), Integrated development & life-course theories of offending (Vol. 14, pp. 51-72). New Brunswick, NJ: Transaction Publishers.

Robins, L. (1966). Deviant children grown up: A sociological and psychiatric study of sociopathic personality. Baltimore, MD: Williams and Wilkins.

Sampson, R.J., & Laub, J.H. (1992). Crime and deviance in the life course. Annual Review of Sociology 18, 63-84.

Sampson, R.J., & Laub, J.H. (2003). Life-course desisters? Trajectories of crime among delinquent boys followed to age 70. Criminology 41, 555-592.

Savage, J. (2009). Understanding persistent offending: Linking developmental psychology with research on the criminal career. In J. Savage (Ed.), The development of persistent criminality (pp. 3-33). Oxford, UK: Oxford University Press.

Schubert, C.A., Mulvey, E.P., Loughran, T.A., & Losoya, S.H. (2012) Perceptions of institutional experience and community outcomes for serious adolescent offenders. Criminal Justice and Behavior 39(1), 71-93.

Thornberry, T.P., Huizinga, D., & Loeber, R. (1995). The prevention of serious delinquency and violence: Implications from the program of research on the causes and correlates of delinquency. In J.C. Howell, B. Krisberg, J.D. Hawkins, & J.J. Wilson (Eds.), A sourcebook: Serious, violent, & chronic juvenile offending (pp. 213-237). Thousand Oaks, CA: SAGE Publications, Inc.

Tracy, P.E., Wolfgang, M.E., Figlio, R.M. (1990). Delinquency careers in two birth cohorts. New York, NY: Plenum Press.
Tremblay, R.E., & Nagin, D.S. (2005). The developmental origins of physical aggression in humans. In R.E. Tremblay, W.W.

Hartup, & J. Archer (Eds.), Developmental origins of aggression (pp. 83-106). New York, NY: The Guilford Press.

White, H.R., Bates, M.E., & Buyske, S. (2001). Adolescence-limited versus persistent delinquency: Examining Moffitt’s hypothesis into adulthood. Journal of Abnormal Psychology 110(4), 600-609


While corporal punishment may have worked in some cases, in other cases it would have lead to direct aggravation of future risk for antisocial and/or criminal behaviour. There are methods other than corporal punishment that are equally (if not moreso effective) that do not carry the same risks that corporal punishment does.


EDIT:

In regard to the article that you listed, the type of corporal punishment that had positive outcomes involved two light slaps to the buttocks of children aged 2-6 which was followed by the parent(s) re-affirming their love for the child afterward.

So these findings (a) don't support the use of corporal punishment in schools, (b ) suggest that corporal punishment be very minimal (i.e. no use of the strap), and © suggest that children be handled tenderly following spanking.

So, corporal punishment will not be effective when used by teachers, when used excessively, when used with a degree of force, and when not followed with positive parenting.

I think this quote from the article you cited is most telling (found on the second page):



So, kids whose parents use a balance of love and limits, that includes backup spanking, were found to have better outcomes than overly permissive parents and parents who used punitive/authoritarian parenting styles. The key in this research is that authoritative (not authoritarian) parents who didn't spank children were included in the same group that used backup spanking. In this research, there was no way to tease apart the differences between authoritarian parents who didn't spank, and authoritarian parents who did spank. So, the research doesn't even suggest that light spanking as a backup plan works better when compared to authoritative parents who do not spank. It may still be that the differences between the balanced parenting group and the permissive and punitive parenting groups were due to the better outcomes of children who were parented using an authoritative style that did not include spanking.


What you said is true. Tramautic events and abuse are highly correlated (0.18, I think) to criminal deviance.
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#57 Down by the River

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 04:59 PM

http://www.reuters.c...E89N03R20121024

We're really turning out a great generation... The brothers, aged 15 and 17, lured the 12 year old girl to their house, then strangled her...

It's sickening - the crimes that kids are perpetrating... I have a very very low regard for our society, and yet society always seems to be able to be worse than I think. Teenagers strangling a 12 year old girl? And deliberately luring her to do so - that's planned and thought out.


Yesterday a 76 year old man attacked his roommate with a chainsaw.

TURBOTVILLE, Pa. — A 76-year-old U.S. man is in jail after police say he went after his housemate with a chain saw.
Guy Allen Black is being held on $100,000 bail after allegedly cutting through a door at the home he shared with Ronald Lee Tanner and swinging the chain saw at him.
Pennsylvania state police say Black became angry after Tanner changed the locks on the home.
Investigators say the chain saw got stuck on Tanner’s shirt and jammed, allowing Tanner to pin Black down with an umbrella.


Read more: http://www.theprovin...l#ixzz2AGRL8J8S



http://www.theprovin...9533/story.html
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OMG we could've had McKeown!

I think Virtanen was a terrible pick given that he's out for 6 months which will hinder his development. You don't pick someone at #6 under that circumstance, along with the fact that he was given a 3/5 IQ (aka he's dumb). 

God dammit Benning. WHY VIRTANEN? Terrible move.

Down by the River - Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young.


#58 Jester@wraiths.ca

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 05:03 PM

Every generation thinks the next generation is the end of civilization. And no, this time its not different. Its been happening since before civilization was civilized. Theres a note written by a teacher lamenting how "children today" no longer respect their elders or authority and act like animals and how she fears for the next generation. That note was on a stone tablet in a Greek ruin. carved 2700 years ago. Think psychopathic tendencies are new to the last 100 years?


When I was young, it was fear of Clifford Olsen killing children, not children killing children...

The difference is we are supposed to be more evolved and more civilized now, each generation should be moreso than the previous one. Yet, we're seeing children accepting of telling people they should kill themselves, children killing other children for no other reason than they felt like it... Everything was not better in the previous generations, but the numbers of callous, uncaring individuals created in our "doesn't matter if it didn't happen to me" society isn't looking better.
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#59 Hyzer

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 05:08 PM

http://www.reuters.c...E89N03R20121024

We're really turning out a great generation... The brothers, aged 15 and 17, lured the 12 year old girl to their house, then strangled her...

It's sickening - the crimes that kids are perpetrating... I have a very very low regard for our society, and yet society always seems to be able to be worse than I think. Teenagers strangling a 12 year old girl? And deliberately luring her to do so - that's planned and thought out.


Really? This generation? You do realize crime has been declining ever since the 80's right? This is including violent and non-violent crimes (by which non-violent have gone up slightly, but violent down ALOT) and you realize the amount of media coverage we have in todays society vs 30-50 years ago? Please.. the world isn't going to sh**.

And actually, to be truthful, its your generation that went to s***. Violent crime rates were highest in the 60's and 70's.

Edited by Hyzer, 24 October 2012 - 05:16 PM.

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#60 Stefan

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 05:29 PM

I won't ignore your question nor tell you to search the internet and find out for yourself as at least one individual here would do.

Who says God neglected them?

Why would I pray to God even though there's so much hate in this world?

Because there is so much hate in this world.

Man fell, we live in a world of sin - it's our own fault.
Sure, you can blame God or other things like Religion, parents, etc...in the end it comes down to each and everyone of us.

Let me put it in a hockey way.
Think of God as a coach - except there are rules - rule that He doesn't want to break.

The coach can't make a player play he wants him to - he can only guide and teach him the way to play.
The player is going to make mistakes - the coach is there to help the player get through those mistakes - not to stop him from making them and/or go back in time and prevent him from making those mistakes.
The coach gives the player choices.
The player chooses on his own free will - for he is not a robot.

Why do I pray?
If you want a scientific type of an answer then I would say because it makes me feel better.
If you want a spiritual answer, then I would say because it's the right thing to do. That it is a way to communicate to God. It gives me hope. Peace.

So you pray to god, even though he won't respond because in doing so he'd be "breaking rules".
God also created everything, (including all that is bad), but isn't willing to change anything, or even help out reaaaaaaaaally good people from reaaaaaaally bad people because he's punishing EVERYONE (even the good!) for those bad people's actions, which the good can't do anything about.
Alright. Got it.
Why's it the right thing to do? Because the bible told you so?
The bible also tells you to enslave people, have sex with your children, and murder those who aren't of the same faith.
2 Chronicles 15:12, 2
All who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman.
Don't forget homosexuals.
Kill them.
Leviticus 20:13 “‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."
Don't just stop at praying, fulfill your god's wishes.

Doesn't this all seem like mind controlling tactics to enslave people into linear thinking?
Join us, or die? Like, wow. You're a grown man and you completely ignore all the bad in the Bible, and are just like dum dee dum, it's all good.
"Old thinking", right? When do you think people started talking about God? They wrote this bible when he was performing his "miracles".
It's all accurate. God's a sick dude.

Edited by Stefan, 24 October 2012 - 05:34 PM.

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(1 Peter 2:18)

Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse.



 




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