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#91 Jai604

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:40 PM

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And again, this thread, like the Amanda Todd thread, is mostly focused on the discussion whether or not "she deserved" her fate.

Is that really the point, here? What is wrong with you guys?


Clearly this girl made poor decisions regarding her sex life. I don't think ANYONE is disputing that, so I don't even know why we're talking about that.

The point is, yes, I suppose you could say some fallout would occur after doing something like that, but to say this girl deserved the bullying she received is just stupid. Should some ridicule be expected? Most likely, yes. That doesn't mean that bullying isn't a real problem and a real issue that we need to give attention to.


Bullying is unacceptable. That's the point.
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#92 Captain Aerosex

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:47 PM

Re: The underlined part - Too late, pilgrim.


Re: The bolded part - classic bullying attitude.


I've bullied a person in my life in Grade 6 along with a bunch of people the whole year pretty badly. Credit to her, she was a toughie. I saw her 2 years ago and apologized for how I had contributed to making her life horrible. I know an apology doesn't make up for it, but there you go.

For the record, I was bullied for 3 years thereafter. So I know the feeling of making up excuses to not go to every soccer practice/game because you just can't stand being ridiculed for who you are by everybody else with nobody else supporting you. You get home and you punch trees outside until your fists are bleeding because you don't understand why everybody else around you decides to pick on you. Don't know whether you call that depression or just being really sad and almost entirely friendless for 3 years (certainly never told any of my friends). Or maybe it's just being a teenager (I know that's going to piss a bunch of you off :lol:).

Anyways, call it karma, I'd agree with you. I'll never bully again, but that doesn't mean I won't pass judgement. The girl did something really really slutty. Shouldn't have paid for her mistake the way she did, but I just can't understand not expecting to be harassed for a mistake to the point of committing suicide. Unless it was really severe emotional torture. But until more news comes out, I reserve my doubts. And if I'm wrong, you can nail me to the cross.

A liar? Ok, then. You can't believe that there are people out there who don't and have never harassed people? I feel pity for your personal experience in life.

Everyone else has failed to do so thus far so now it's your turn....why would someone deserve to be ridiculed for that behaviour? What good, what purpose, does that serve to anyone?


Either you are one fortunately naive guy, or you're a liar. I'm going with a liar. You have ridiculed someone to some degree about something. That is a fact. No, it doesn't serve a purpose. But it happens anyways. It's human nature. One weight on the balance of life, and sometimes that weight's too heavy.


If I said she deserved ridicule in my original post, I'll rephrase that. She should EXPECT to deserve ridicule. That's reality. I'm not somebody who's pessimistic about human nature, but that's just crazy to expect nothing in return for having sex with 4 guys at once at the age of 15.
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#93 Imuzi

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:57 PM

Did you read the article? She was being bullied by the football team, which, for the record, is something the players are outright denying.

I'll admit I didn't read the article but what is this, the new 'thing' to do?
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#94 GLASSJAW

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:58 PM

You're just being purposely facetious, now.

Clearly when I said "never been there" I meant "never experienced depression".


You're entitled to your ignorant opinions, but just know that you're being a real dick expressing them.


The problem with what you're saying in the "been there" part, is that you have no idea about this girl's mental health, despite the buzzword "depression" usage in the article. And "depression," as a word, is more or less an ambiguous term at this point, unless thoroughly explained or analyzed by professionals. Even the people in this thread realized that, so they tacked on "clinical" as a prefix, like it's the impenetrable fortress, making the assumption that this girl was clinically depressed. They didn't know that. The "there" you used implies that YOU, in your empathy, DO KNOW what "there" is, and others (who disagree) don't. When in reality, YOU don't know what "there" is either, because we (you included) have no idea about how this kid felt.

Your comment also suggests that it was depression guiding her actions, when--again--we have no real indication that this is the truth. Maybe she was pressured? Maybe she was raped? Maybe she was having the best day of her life up until that point? All we have is the conflicting reaction from other students.

To suggest someone is "ignorant" just because they disagree with you seems a bit crass, IMO. Especially when the point of reference is so small.

Edited by GLASSJAW, 25 October 2012 - 09:59 PM.

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#95 Navyblue

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:00 PM

None of us can really judge her because we didn't live the life she did. Of course it's a discussion board, and people will discuss, but thats how I feel about this topic.

Rest in Peace.
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#96 theminister

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:03 PM

Either you are one fortunately naive guy, or you're a liar. I'm going with a liar. You have ridiculed someone to some degree about something. That is a fact. No, it doesn't serve a purpose. But it happens anyways. It's human nature. One weight on the balance of life, and sometimes that weight's too heavy.


If I said she deserved ridicule in my original post, I'll rephrase that. She should EXPECT to deserve ridicule. That's reality. I'm not somebody who's pessimistic about human nature, but that's just crazy to expect nothing in return for having sex with 4 guys at once at the age of 15.


Believe what you want but to me you sound as someone who can only paint others with their own brush.

Even your rephrase states she should expect to deserve ridicule, not even she should expect to receive it. My guess would be you still really haven't come to terms with your bullying, your being bullied, or societies need to call it when we see it and stamp it out.
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#97 Kamero89

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:07 PM

What happened to whuppin' the bully's ass? That usually solves the problem

One case was a 14 year old girl being bullied by a grown man. How could she really react?

BTW disgusting they have not arrested said individual. They say because there is no evidence yet Anonymous released a boat load of evidence
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#98 Jai604

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:08 PM

The problem with what you're saying in the "been there" part, is that you have no idea about this girl's mental health, despite the buzzword "depression" usage in the article. And "depression," as a word, is more or less an ambiguous term at this point, unless thoroughly explained or analyzed by professionals. Even the people in this thread realized that, so they tacked on "clinical" as a prefix, like it's the impenetrable fortress, making the assumption that this girl was clinically depressed. They didn't know that. The "there" you used implies that YOU, in your empathy, DO KNOW what "there" is, and others (who disagree) don't. When in reality, YOU don't know what "there" is either, because we (you included) have no idea about how this kid felt.

Your comment also suggests that it was depression guiding her actions, when--again--we have no real indication that this is the truth. Maybe she was pressured? Maybe she was raped? Maybe she was having the best day of her life up until that point? All we have is the conflicting reaction from other students.

To suggest someone is "ignorant" just because they disagree with you seems a bit crass, IMO. Especially when the point of reference is so small.


Alright, so maybe her actions weren't "guided by depression" as you say. I can concede that may be true. It's not stated in the article. To understand why she committed suicide, however, you have to think that she was not in a good frame of mind. Depression is usually a good cause for that.

The absurdity about depression and "feeling like nobody understands" is that literally every single person on the planet experiences it to some degree at some point, and millions upon millions upon millions DO understand. The difficulty of depression, if not adolescence (the two are interchangable, as far as I'm concerned) is accepting the fact that you ain't no different at all, and that your sadness comes wholesale. Some of us make it through that realization, others don't.


What I can say for sure, is that from your posts it's quite evident that you have no idea what depression is all about, and likely bullying either. And yes, for the record, I do know what depression is all about, because I've "been there".

I don't really think I need to do much to show that you're just a dick. You do quite a good job of it yourself.

Curious to see how this plays out. She doesn't even attempt to make herself the victim like Todd, and there's no slow soundtrack or sad eyes to help with a mood. Instead, we've got a handful (no pun intended) of cleavage and ass photos, and a slew of tweets that would gather nothing more than ire from anyone with half a brain

Quick, someone tell me why I should care


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#99 7thMan

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:19 PM

This has to be one of the most ignorant posts I've ever read. You're trying to tell me that she did this for fame when she's not even gonna be alive to witness it? REALLY? Those bullies deserve to feel pain and guilt for what they did and there isn't ANY excuse for it. They should be tried for murder in my honest opinion.

For you though you probably haven't gone through anything like these 2 girls did, and it's something no one deserves... and especially doesn't need to end in someone taking their life.


Bullying is, quite literally, just being mean. Nobody in their right mind kills themself because of bullying. There is almost always something else wrong and more often than not that something is mental illness. There's a reason that it tends to beyoung people who kill themselves due to bullying: they lack the maturity and life experience to cope with things that are difficult.

Life is mean no matter what age you are. You need to learn to take criticism and abuse and stick up for yourself. It isn't just at school that people will be insensitive, it can be family and friends and co-workers. These kids shouldn't be looked at as martyrs; they're sad statistics.

So no, bullies shouldn't be charged with murder. Being mean isn't a crime and it shouldn't be a crime. Assaulting someone is a crime, threatening someone is a crime, telling someone to kill themselves is a crime, but making fun of someone isn't.
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#100 Mr. Ambien

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:19 PM

Oh no.. is the train okay?
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#101 Jgermeister

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:26 PM

It's really sad how little some people seem to know about depression, yet still think they know what they are talking about.

Edited by Jagermeister, 25 October 2012 - 10:26 PM.

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#102 Bob.Loblaw

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:27 PM

I'll admit I didn't read the article but what is this, the new 'thing' to do?


Yeah. Suicide. It's a new phenomenon. From the 23rd century.
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#103 theminister

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:28 PM

It's really sad how little people seem to know about depression.


Or in many cases, care.

Generally, and this equates very well with bullying overall, we as a society don't cultivate empathy like we should.
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#104 Peaches

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:29 PM

:(

This world is to negative.
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#105 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:30 PM

Bullying is, quite literally, just being mean. Nobody in their right mind kills themself because of bullying. There is almost always something else wrong and more often than not that something is mental illness. There's a reason that it tends to beyoung people who kill themselves due to bullying: they lack the maturity and life experience to cope with things that are difficult.

Life is mean no matter what age you are. You need to learn to take criticism and abuse and stick up for yourself. It isn't just at school that people will be insensitive, it can be family and friends and co-workers. These kids shouldn't be looked at as martyrs; they're sad statistics.

So no, bullies shouldn't be charged with murder. Being mean isn't a crime and it shouldn't be a crime. Assaulting someone is a crime, threatening someone is a crime, telling someone to kill themselves is a crime, but making fun of someone isn't.


"Just" being mean???? "JUST " being mean? Oh wow.......I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this......

It's quite obvious that kids ARE killing themselves because of bullying.....are you living under a rock? Do you have even the vaguest clue of what bullying does to a person's psyche? Obviously not. You hint that you might have a glimmer of a clue but then continue on with the ignorance factor.

Shaking my head at the sheer and blatant ignorance contained in this post,

Edited by Bertuzzi Babe, 25 October 2012 - 10:33 PM.

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#106 Grapefruits

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:31 PM

Yeah. Suicide. It's a new phenomenon. From the 23rd century.


No, but it's become a socially acceptable way of dealing with problems. Suicide is the most selfish act a person can ever do, but media has glorified it as an acceptable alternative to dealing with and working through problems.

Edited by zero-ONE-three, 25 October 2012 - 10:31 PM.

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#107 Jai604

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:33 PM

It's really sad how little some people seem to know about depression, yet still think they know what they are talking about.

Or in many cases, care.

Generally, and this equates very well with bullying overall, we as a society don't cultivate empathy like we should.


Couldn't agree more, sadly.
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#108 Captain Aerosex

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:34 PM

Believe what you want but to me you sound as someone who can only paint others with their own brush.

Even your rephrase states she should expect to deserve ridicule, not even she should expect to receive it. My guess would be you still really haven't come to terms with your bullying, your being bullied, or societies need to call it when we see it and stamp it out.


I don't only paint others with my own brush. But I see the world through my eyes. I'd like to think I'm fairly tolerant of other opinions and cultures, but you draw a line somewhere. It's a world of greys after all. Hitler thought it was right to kill all the Jews, some Sikhs living in Canada think it makes sense to commit honour killings. Do you respect their opinions or culture? Come on. You still haven't said outright that you've never harassed, ridiculed, or made fun of somebody. So I'm still going with you're lying. Yeah yeah paintbrush. But I'm just being logical here.

Of course I haven't come to terms with bullying the girl, because I'll never know if it has affected who she is now negatively. I don't think about it very frequently, though when I do I feel bad. Me being bullied? Was much less in comparison, and I really don't care anymore. I'm good friends with one of the guys now who was a giant asshole to me then. We've talked about it once where he acknowledged his assholery and apologized, and that was that. I'd say he's actually a much better person than me in terms of morals, but he was a dick in our early teens. Bullying can get out of control, and there's some sick bullies in this world, but honestly it is a part of growing up. Those are tumultuous years, and it happens. That's why I'm growing out my hair and donating it for one of the guys who also used to be a really cowardly guy and a bully. People aren't themselves yet in their teens, and some can be total jerks. The guy's much worse off than me with his cancer and whatnot, I don't harbour any real animosity to him anymore (though I can't say we're friends).

Thanks for the diagnosis though.
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#109 GLASSJAW

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:39 PM

Alright, so maybe her actions weren't "guided by depression" as you say. I can concede that may be true. It's not stated in the article. To understand why she committed suicide, however, you have to think that she was not in a good frame of mind. Depression is usually a good cause for that.

What I can say for sure, is that from your posts it's quite evident that you have no idea what depression is all about, and likely bullying either. And yes, for the record, I do know what depression is all about, because I've "been there".

I don't really think I need to do much to show that you're just a dick. You do quite a good job of it yourself.


To quote Hitchens: if I'm being facetious, then you're being frivolous. You're right, depression is usually a "good" cause for suicide, that doesn't make "depression" any less of an ambiguous word, or condition, even. And because I don't sympathize doesn't mean I'm incapable of sympathy. The girl's depression could have been the transitory sensation of anxiety that we all feel in our youth, for all we know.

I absolutely stand by my post about depression and it being a wholesale phrase to define one of the more harsh realities of human awareness. I do believe people have the faculties to handle their own problems more often than they'd like to admit, but that doesn't mean I discount the idea of severe mental illness. As a kid, one of my aunts lived with us for well over a decade, because she couldn't cope with her 'depression' and stopped working, and repeatedly attempted suicide. She was recently diagnosed with schizophrenia, to boot. My other aunt, while being considered "mentally sick" enough to avoid the responsibility of having a job, is self-sufficient enough to live alone. Mental health issues have been something I've been made aware of from a very young age, and grew up around. It's in my blood, or as Tony Soprano would say, "my rotten, f_ing putrid genes." I've done better than they have, thank god. If that discounts my views on sickness, that's cool. I don't care.

As for bullying, well, I don't know many people who didn't experience it. I got my ass kicked by 5 or 7 dudes on my first day of junior high, and that started an interesting snowball of events. But all things pass, including the bad ones.

I'm not one to compare scars or something, because that's a game I'd lose 7 times out of 10, but let's not get ahead of ourselves in how we read each other's CDC posts, yeah?

Or in many cases, care.

Generally, and this equates very well with bullying overall, we as a society don't cultivate empathy like we should.


Keyboard empathy is meaningless unless it's converted into action. Christ, it's almost condescending otherwise. I doubt any of those outraged sympathizers in the Todd thread have done a single thing to reach out to the community they so diligently cried for.

Edited by GLASSJAW, 25 October 2012 - 10:52 PM.

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#110 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:40 PM

No, but it's become a socially acceptable way of dealing with problems. Suicide is the most selfish act a person can ever do, but media has glorified it as an acceptable alternative to dealing with and working through problems.


Oh please, do back this up with some media references and links that have 'glorified suicide as an acceptable alternative to dealing with and working through problems. '

Edited by Bertuzzi Babe, 25 October 2012 - 10:42 PM.

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#111 GLASSJAW

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:43 PM

Oh please, do back this up with some media references and links that have 'glorified suicide as an acceptable alternative to dealing with and working through problems. '


When people say the media glorifies something, they usually mean that it's inherently glorified simply by being discussed so thoroughly. Putting the suicide case's name in lights across a screen, or in print in headlines, for days, sometimes weeks on end, is what is viewed as "glorifying"
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#112 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:45 PM

When people say the media glorifies something, they usually mean that it's inherently glorified simply by being discussed so thoroughly. Putting the suicide case's name in lights across a screen, or in print in headlines, for days, sometimes weeks on end, is what is viewed as "glorifying"


I didn't ask you but thanks for pontificating and leaping in to speak for the one the question was asked of.

The question, for zero-ONE-three, is:

Oh please, do back this up with some media references and links that have 'glorified suicide as an acceptable alternative to dealing with and working through problems. '


Edited by Bertuzzi Babe, 25 October 2012 - 10:52 PM.

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#113 GLASSJAW

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:49 PM

uh k
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#114 theminister

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:52 PM

Keyboard empathy is meaningless unless it's converted into action. Christ, it's almost condescending. I doubt any of those outraged sympathizers in the Todd thread have done a single thing to reach out to the community they so diligently cried for.



I posted it once already in this thread. You're wrong.

http://www.nobullyshere.com/

I believe it is you who is condescending here.



I don't only paint others with my own brush. But I see the world through my eyes. I'd like to think I'm fairly tolerant of other opinions and cultures, but you draw a line somewhere. It's a world of greys after all. Hitler thought it was right to kill all the Jews, some Sikhs living in Canada think it makes sense to commit honour killings. Do you respect their opinions or culture? Come on. You still haven't said outright that you've never harassed, ridiculed, or made fun of somebody. So I'm still going with you're lying. Yeah yeah paintbrush. But I'm just being logical here.


Not having respect for actions of other cultures does not compare. How one voices those objections does.

I have never harassed anyone, I don't believe in ridicule and I make fun of my friends and myself. Happy? It's not hard to not harass people, and it is abnormal not normal behavior.

Most people who are bullies started out being bullied themselves, usually at home by family. I did not start in that cycle and have nothing to continue.

Edited by theminister, 25 October 2012 - 10:58 PM.

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#115 Mr.DirtyDangles

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:58 PM

Where were this girls friends ? Why did no one stand up for her ? Why does no one step up for some one being bullied ? I am disgusted with humanity. I never let crap like this happen around me and all my friends know it . I would not and will not tolerate bullying and if i see it in front of me i say something right then and there or I smash the FRAk out of the loser or losers doing it. Yes I have been in a lot of fights and many times people backed me up when they saw what was happening. Mostly though people are weak as hell and have no self respect or the courage to stand up to POS like these guys. Seriously everyone needs to grow a set and stand up for yourself your friends and fellow man woman and child ! Stop this Frakken madness. These wastes of human skin will get what is coming. Karma is a bitch !

Just yesterday I was at friends apartment, his girl stepped out to take the dogs for a stroll around the lake. We heard Rocky barking and took a look out the window. This guy with his golden lab off leash strolled by and clearly said something to her. When she got back in from the walk i asked what the guy had said to her. She told us this guy walked by and said " Nice hat Bitch !" Rocky a small Pomeranian barked again and the guy said "oh no it is going to attack" sarcastically and called her a bitch again ??? As she kept walking another girl passed by walking her dog and asked if that guy had said anything to her ? She replied yes and the other girl said he was very derogatory to her as well. WTF is wrong with people these days ? I can guarantee you if I see this guy again I will not hesitate to pummel him and ask him who the bitch is now ?

Edited by vanfan73, 25 October 2012 - 11:12 PM.

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#116 pimpcurtly

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 11:01 PM

I don't know whats worse...this poor girl killing herself or some of the people in this thread...wow. :blink:
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#117 Grapefruits

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 11:07 PM

Oh please, do back this up with some media references and links that have 'glorified suicide as an acceptable alternative to dealing with and working through problems. '


Who needs media references? How about the fact the media hasn't come out and stated that suicide isn't the answer. Instead they are basically condoning it by making them martyrs. Through social media Amanda Todd has been made a hero of almost star status. For someone who is extremely depressed and feels alone, it makes the attention they may get in death something worth while to them.

I also speak from personal experience. I've been to two funerals now of people who have committed suicide. Both times there were many people in the church including children. The pastor told everyone how the person was in so much pain and felt he had no options. But that person was no at peace and had moved on to a a better place. They were no longer in pain. What kind of message does that send?

Maybe human life should be held at a greater respect than it is. I don't care how bad life is, suicide is not the answer, and the people that kill themselves shouldn't be completely absolved of responsibility.

Edited by zero-ONE-three, 25 October 2012 - 11:08 PM.

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#118 kurtis

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 11:09 PM

WOW.... Sigh.. Poor girl. :( :(
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#119 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 11:16 PM

Who needs media references? How about the fact the media hasn't come out and stated that suicide isn't the answer. Instead they are basically condoning it by making them martyrs. Through social media Amanda Todd has been made a hero of almost star status. For someone who is extremely depressed and feels alone, it makes the attention they may get in death something worth while to them.



I don't see Amanda Todd as a hero.... I see her as the tragic poster child of an insidious problem that needs to be addressed and eradicated. She became the face of what bullying does to young people -it could have been Darren from down the street, Darlene the barista at Starbucks......the girl who teaches my niece ballet.......it just so happened that Amanda Todd was unlucky enough to find herself in a situation from which she felt there was no escape except suicide. She has been front and centre in media and in people's consciousness lately because those who want bullying eliminated or at least dealt with appropriately want to raise awareness that kids are DYING because of bullying. Anyone with a quarter of a lobe in their cranium can see this........or maybe it's only those with a certain level of maturity that seem to get it.

Amanda Todd a martyr in the sense of of taking her life for a cause??? To raise awareness of bullying??? Hardly........she's dead, she's gained nothing but an escape from her tormentors. Her family would much rather have her alive. She's yet another example of what bullying can do to a person. And now this girl who felt her only way out was to jump in front of a train. We should be shocked, disgusted.......but instead, some people seem to think we should all be blaming the victim for their own bullying. What a sad, sad world we live in.

Edited by Bertuzzi Babe, 25 October 2012 - 11:24 PM.

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#120 GLASSJAW

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 11:18 PM

Amanda Todd a martyr??? Hardly........she's dead.


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