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#121 Gerg

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 11:25 PM

And if the situation were reversed, a guy that banged 4 girls at once, he'd be a stud and all would bow low before him and sing his praises...yet a girl does and she's a slut, a pariah.....how much you want a bet that the very guys that 'banged' her in that situation were part of the bully pack. What heroes........


Not necessarily. I have little respect for guys who go around doing that. It's just as gross no matter the gender.
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#122 Tortorella's Rant

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 11:30 PM

What happened to whuppin' the bully's ass? That usually solves the problem


Agreed. Given you're in a scenario to do so
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#123 Beer-League-Goalie

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 12:08 AM

I am gob-smacked at the people in this thread blaming the victim of the bullying for her bullying. Saying she deserved everything she got. It dumbfounds me and makes me a little sad and scared for society today if these posters are an indication of young people today. Unfortunately, it gives a very clear indication of why bullying is still such an issue today and why kids are killing themselves because bullies have made their lives so horrible that death feels like the only escape. Unbelievable, just unbelievable. :sadno:

I am gob-smacked at the people in this thread blaming the victim of the bullying for her bullying. Saying she deserved everything she got. It dumbfounds me and makes me a little sad and scared for society today if these posters are an indication of young people today. Unfortunately, it gives a very clear indication of why bullying is still such an issue today and why kids are killing themselves because bullies have made their lives so horrible that death feels like the only escape. Unbelievable, just unbelievable. :sadno:


I know...
I can't believe some of the crape that is being written here. I have a son that has been severely bullied over the last few years and has talked of one day maybe just not being around anymore just to make it stop. For some of these aholes to say they know what some of these kids are going through but they should suck it up...... clearly don't know what the hell their talking about.

It just makes me sick what our youth has become and the total insensitivity...

Edited by Beer-League-Goalie, 26 October 2012 - 12:12 AM.

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#124 Jai604

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 12:18 AM

Who needs media references? How about the fact the media hasn't come out and stated that suicide isn't the answer. Instead they are basically condoning it by making them martyrs. Through social media Amanda Todd has been made a hero of almost star status. For someone who is extremely depressed and feels alone, it makes the attention they may get in death something worth while to them.

I also speak from personal experience. I've been to two funerals now of people who have committed suicide. Both times there were many people in the church including children. The pastor told everyone how the person was in so much pain and felt he had no options. But that person was no at peace and had moved on to a a better place. They were no longer in pain. What kind of message does that send?

Maybe human life should be held at a greater respect than it is. I don't care how bad life is, suicide is not the answer, and the people that kill themselves shouldn't be completely absolved of responsibility.


So what should be done then? Should we not talk about it? Leave the situation alone, and brush it under the rug?

Amanda Todd is no martyr. She committed suicide to escape. She didn't do it to get attention. The thing is, she people's attention now. Is that a bad thing?


A lot of the posters in this thread seem to have some huge moral outrage at people talking about these teenagers committing suicide. They seem to have moral outrage at the "keyboard sympathy" and all of the people who just sit here at their computers talking and doing nothing?

Hypocrisy much? What does complaining about people talking about suicide accomplish? You guys are sure doing a bang-up job saving lives and helping to end bullying. Congratulations for sitting atop your moral high ground.

Where's your outrage at the people mercilessly bullying people to the point where these individuals don't think life is worth living anymore? Oh no, let's just blame the victims for being weak-willed individuals who can't hang tough and survive this harsh world. Instead of focusing on the bullies, let's instead focus on these girls who made poor decisions and thus deserved such a fate. Let's instead focus on the fact that somehow depression is just "in people's heads" and isn't a real medical condition, and that people just need to "hang tough" and be strong.

For all the complaining and outrage you guys have over this subject, I can't help but ask if your outrage is misguided?
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#125 Kass9

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 12:32 AM

So this girl had "le sexytime" with four dudes at once and wasn't able to take the heat?

If I was a girl, and in her position, what I would've done is moved schools. But, we don't know what her complete situation was. (Moving schools, city, etc.).

Plus, why does it hurt people when you get called names for what you are? You cannot expect the world to be all flowers and rainbows after everybody knowing what you've done. What she did was not socially acceptable and that's why she seemed to be "out there" and easy to pick on.. things happen, but she shouldn't have killed herself. In the end, she let the bullies win.

Yes, nobody ever deserves to be bullied, not even a bully. I understand it would do things to someone's daily life.

Before anybody gets on my a$$, I do not condone suicide nor bullying, but I believe you should expect some sort of judgement from people if you do socially unacceptable things.
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#126 Gerg

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 12:38 AM

It also amazes me how some of you can be so ignorant towards this issue and how severe depression and bullying is, especially in the adolescent mind where hormones are running rampant. A lot of people after years and years of bullying see no other escape. It's not the easy way out, it's not being selfish, it's them feeling that it's the only option and escape route left. It's a last resort, never the first.

I wonder how many people ever thought that this girl slept with those guys that night for acceptance. For some, it does get to the point where a person will do almost anything to be accepted. Sleeping with 4 guys off the football team could seem like a perfect way to get 4 of the more popular guys in school to like you. I could see this backlash against hopes for acceptance being enough to push someone over the edge like she did.

One thing I wish the media would stop doing however, is putting these victims on a soapbox for the anti-bullying campaign. Yes, something needs to be done, but I think just as much awareness needs to be placed on how to handle it properly.

Edited by Gerg, 26 October 2012 - 12:40 AM.

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#127 cj_coolcat

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 03:18 AM

So did everyone else miss this part of the article?

"Even before her suicide, Felicia’s life was marked by tragedy, the sources said. She was living with a foster family and a chronic runaway who had been reported missing seven times, they said."

I could be wrong but I'm thinking this girl had much bigger problems than just bullying. You've got to be pretty messed up to sleep with 4 guys in one night, let alone at 15 years old. There's clearly a lot more going on here, but sure let's focus on the football players and the school yard taunts because that's a much sexier story. She lived a short cruel life and now she gets to have her sexual exploits debated in international news. This seems like a classic case of the media piggy-backing on the Amanda Todd story and finding another poor dead teen girl to exploit for cash. And before anyone talks about "awareness" you've got to be pretty naive to believe that's why this story was printed.
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#128 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 04:05 AM

Or in many cases, care.

Generally, and this equates very well with bullying overall, we as a society don't cultivate empathy like we should.


Right on mate .
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#129 tylernorton

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 04:33 AM

And if the situation were reversed, a guy that banged 4 girls at once, he'd be a stud and all would bow low before him and sing his praises...yet a girl does and she's a slut, a pariah.....how much you want a bet that the very guys that 'banged' her in that situation were part of the bully pack. What heroes........

There is a huge difference between having sex with 4 males, then with 4 females.. Males today in society
have historically been the persuers when it comes ro sexual relations.Howevere, females have been the ones being persued and would only need to accept the invitation to have sexual relations, .Although i do belive it is still a very courageous act,most would say that accepting and submitting to 4 persuers is a simpler task,
Do you think the girl was the persuer or the pursuee?
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#130 Wolfman Jack

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 04:40 AM

Quite Similar to Amanda Todd. I really hope that these people cannot sleep because of the guilt they will carry. I also hope these bullies change themselves and become better people.

Guilt is one things bullies never feel, if anything this will likely make them feel more powerful. They are probably still laughing about it and in their Neanderthal little minds feel she deserved it. Unfortunately the bully never feels they have ever done anything wrong, and are usually impervious to outside influence or anything like guilt or remorse.
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#131 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 06:32 AM

Shaking my head at the sheer and blatant ignorance contained in this post,

I'm shaking my head at the sheer ignorance contained in this thread...

I've often wondered how the bullying problem has gotten so bad lately, but I always assumed that it was because of social media allowing the bullies to continue their harassment outside of school boundaries, however, the lack of empathy shown by so many people in this thread tells me that the problem goes much deeper.

If you honestly believe that this girl "had it coming" because she slept around, then you are quite simply part of the problem yourself.

I don't know whats worse...this poor girl killing herself or some of the people in this thread...wow. :blink:

I'm with you on that one, pimp.
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#132 Monty

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 07:16 AM

It's all fun and games when someone gets their head cut off, no sympathy towards that situation. But the moment someone gets bullied and ends up killing themselves, "Oh won't someone please think of the children!"

Edited by Monty, 26 October 2012 - 07:16 AM.

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#133 Dazzle

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 07:28 AM

Awful.
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#134 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 09:06 AM

From a recent study:

-While suicide rates for teens and young adults have gone up over the decades, suicide rates for adults and seniors have gone down.
-Teen suicide rates in rural areas are higher than in inner city areas.
-Teen suicide rates are even higher in areas with high female divorce rates.
-Teen girls attempt suicide more, but teen boys follow through more.

Teen suicide attempts are:

1. a way to punish parents or other adults
or 2. are linked to deliquency, drug use, sexual activity, and/or victimization - caused by one's own bad decisions or the environment they live in

-Social contagion also plays a role
-The economy also plays a role. Suicide (and homicide) rates were highest during the great depression.

Teen suicides result:

-because in one's youth, you tend to discount adulthood and old age. Old age: 'Well, i'm going to die soon anyway, so why not just wait it out' Adulthood: 'Well, i have to weigh in not seeing my grandkids, as well as my current responsibilities.' Teens and young adults: 'I have nothing to lose. I won't miss what i don't have.'
-when random shocks are large and this discounting is high
-when levels of unhappiness are very high due to the reasons explained in suicide attempt rates above

Conclusion:

-We're not instilling enough value of future lives into our children.
-We're also not instilling enough other moral values into our children, for various social-economic reasons.
-Teens and young adults need people to see them through to the next stage of their life. These people are usually parents and friends.
-If their parents are split or vacant and their friends abandon them, then their instilled moral and life values should see them through their period of loss. Without these values, they are lost.
-Life conditions for teens and young adults is poor and getting poorer. Our school system is failing us and so is the parental system. To reverse this we may need a social revolution.
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#135 Stizz19

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 09:30 AM

I don't condone bullying but seriously, I've seen stuff like this growing up and it's been this way for ages. What is with kids these days, you'd think all the desensitization they would handle it even better than we did as children, it's sad that it's come to this.
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#136 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 10:41 AM

I don't condone bullying but seriously, I've seen stuff like this growing up and it's been this way for ages. What is with kids these days, you'd think all the desensitization they would handle it even better than we did as children, it's sad that it's come to this.



Just a question: When you were a kid, did you have to deal with bullying every time you looked at your phone, or logged onto your computer?

Were the bullies able to spread the ridicule amongst hundreds of people with the mere touch of a button?
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#137 Wetcoaster

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 11:13 AM

It's all fun and games when someone gets their head cut off, no sympathy towards that situation. But the moment someone gets bullied and ends up killing themselves, "Oh won't someone please think of the children!"

What situation is that?
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#138 Shift-4

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 11:19 AM

What situation is that?


I think he is referring to this

http://forum.canucks...edmonton-alley/
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#139 Wetcoaster

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 11:29 AM

Just a question: When you were a kid, did you have to deal with bullying every time you looked at your phone, or logged onto your computer?

Were the bullies able to spread the ridicule amongst hundreds of people with the mere touch of a button?

Actually more on the order of thousands of people with the reach of the social media and it is expanding daily.

In the "good ole days" it was messages scratched on the walls of public restrooms. As you say no real comparison.

And fighting back against bullies as a common prescription posted here seldom is a realistic solution particularly with anonymous nature of the messaging. The response must come from one's peers as group, school officials, parents and where necessary the police so that any discipline is publicly seen to the bully support group. A good start would be suspending the most egregious bullies when it occurs within a school and transferring the bully away from her/his clique.

One problem is fighting back may result in the bullied youth being punished along with the bully based upon the schools strict application of no violence for any reason at school as occurred here:


When it comes to bullying, Lara Fominoff has always preached the same message to her young son: Never bully or be mean to the other kids. And never start a fight. But if someone starts a fight with you, you have the right to defend yourself.


It was this right that Fominoff says her six-year-old son exercised last week when he was confronted by a bully in the schoolyard of White Rock Elementary. After words failed, she says her son responded to the physical aggression he faced by striking back.


His decision to do so earned him a punishment equal to the other boy’s, something that has ignited a local debate over one’s right to self-defend when confronted by bullying versus the local school district’s zero tolerance policy on violence.


Doug Strachan, communications manager for the Surrey School District, which covers White Rock schools, says violence of any sort is unacceptable within district schools. That includes students striking back against someone who has hit them.


“If someone was pushed or even hit, that individual can get up and report that or they can kick and hit back,” says Strachan. “And we are saying they should be reporting it and not escalating it.”


But Fominoff can’t understand why her son received equal punishment to his tormentor, who was three years her son’s senior, when he didn’t initiate the confrontation and he had only been trying to defend himself.


She disagrees with the district’s blanket policy on violence because it colours the complicated debate of bullying black and white. Within such a framework, a student who defends themselves from a bully’s attack is punished rather than supported.


“I’m never going to punish my son for defending himself in a fight,” Fominoff says. “I’m not say that every time someone does that [gets physical] that you should hit back. But if someone is hurting you, you have a choice to do a number of things. And fighting back is one.”


It’s a position likely shared by many parents at a time of intense public debate on bullying sparked by the recent suicide of 15-year-old Amanda Todd, the Port Coquitlam girl who killed herself after enduring years of online and face to face bullying.


Fominoff said she was initially accepting of her son’s punishment — he was reprimanded by the school’s principal and made to apologize — but later changed her mind when she learned the full story and the extent of her son’s injuries (swollen knee, limping).


She was told during a later meeting with school district officials that the policy on violence was not going to change. But they did tell her they would look into the issue of schoolyard supervision, another point Fominoff took issue with.


While she described the meeting as productive, she maintains her view that the district’s policy is wrong.


“He got thrown to the ground, how do you walk away from that?” she says. “It not right [for the policy] to be applied without discretion. They can’t just have a blanket policy and apply it everywhere.”

http://www.theprovin...l#ixzz2AQll5rIP

And here:


A Burnaby mom who moved with her seven-year-old son to Port Moody last year after he was relentlessly tormented by older kids, has launched a blistering attack on "don't hit back" school district policies she says are pandering to young bullies.


Catherine Adam said Tuesday such soft-soap policies are the main reason why bullying of the kind her son endured at Douglas Road Elementary - including being thrust into a school toilet - is increasing in Lower Mainland schools.


"The punishing of both the victim and the bully when caught empowers the bullies to escalate and makes the victims reluctant to come forward," she said. "It happened to my son for over two years prior to getting shoved face first into a toilet."


The information-technology specialist spoke out after reading The Province story about White Rock mom Lara Fominoff, whose six-year-old son fought back when confronted by a much older bully, but received the same punishment.


As reporter Cassidy Olivier noted, Fominoff told her son never to start a fight, but if someone started one with him, he had the right to defend himself. A Surrey school district official, however, was quoted as saying violence of any kind is unacceptable and that, if kids are pushed or hit, they're simply supposed to report it to the appropriate authorities.


Adam told me this policy was unrealistic and ineffective. Indeed, she reminded me exactly why she and her son moved away from Burnaby last August, quoting directly from a column I wrote then about their plight.


"I refuse, in eight or 10 years, to be a grieving parent of a teenager who just committed suicide like so many others that have been in the news recently and regularly," she said.


Adam added that the recent high-profile suicide of Lower Mainland teen Amanda Todd, after prolonged bullying, showed she was absolutely right in refusing to accept the "pap" she felt she was being fed by Burnaby school officials.


"That to me is the absolute root of all this bull, that if the kid who is the victim fights back or even reports it, they get punished, too," she said. "And that teaches the bullies right from the age of six that they can get away with this crap."


The defiant single mom said she doesn't buy Lower Mainland school districts' fondness for mediation sessions and "restorative justice" programs in which perpetrators are encouraged to take steps to restore damaged relationships.


Children instead should be encouraged to stand up for themselves. Otherwise, they could wind up being taken advantage of both by the bullies and the school bureaucracy.


I agree with her. School authorities need to give these punks a dose of their own medicine, not hold hands and let's-all-be-friends sessions.


Neither acting Burnaby school superintendent Heather Hart nor assistant school superintendent Kevin Kaardal could immediately be reached for comment.


But there should be no moral ambiguity here. Bullies should be the ones who have to move schools and otherwise change their ways, not their victims.

http://www.theprovince.com/bullied+kids+fight+back+says/7437696/story.html#ixzz2AQodjau9

Occasional a bully does target the wrong person as I experienced personally back lo those many years ago.

Years back (mid-1960's) I had transferred school districts part way through Grade 8 so I was an unknown as I arrived at my new junior secondary school. I was not tall but I was a tad on the stocky side. And I appeared to be "nerdy". However I had a reputation that was generally unknown at my new school for rough play in hockey except by a few of my hockey buddies and teammates who also attended the school. I was the penalty minute and fight leader on my rep team and in the top in those categories in my league. I had learned early on not to get pushed around as I was smaller than the average player.

There was a well known bully at my new school who delighted in pushing kids (particularly smaller kids around and as I was smaller and new kid I was fresh meat for him) - he was on his second or third go-round in Grade 8 and was as we called them in those days a "greaser".

I was getting my phys ed clothes squared away for my first class when he came in the locker room and began bullying me and pushing me around. I warned him to stop and he laughed and continued... big mistake -for him. One shot to the solar plexus doubled him over and an upper cut sent him a$$ over tea kettle sprawling over a bench... just as the phys ed teacher walked in. It so happened that the phys ed teacher was also a local minor hockey coach so he was familiar with my hockey rep.

He stopped and took it all in as the bully got to his feet and began whining about me punching him out. The teacher told him that in future he should not be so clumsy to fall over a bench and that he probably did not want to be telling a unfounded stories as it would make him a laughing stock at the school. Oh yeah and the teacher gave him a detention for not being properly attired for phys ed class. Posted Image

The bully put his tail between his legs and slunk away.

The teacher told me I should watch myself as this guy had a few friends of like attitude. And sure enough a couple of days later on the way to another class I was threatened that he and his friends would see me on the way home after school.

And on the way home that day he followed me with a couple of his friends and began to taunt me. I again warned him and asked him if he had told his buddies how I had dropped him earlier - obviously he had not and they were a little shocked and somewhat wary all of a sudden. As they were screwing up their courage and verbally escalating things I repeated my warning. That provoked the common response of "Yeah you and whose army"?

My response was "How about these guys?"

A couple of my hockey teammates who were well known jocks at this school and one was a year ahead of me in Grade 9 as well as being my defence partner on the hockey team had also followed a bit behind me as I had told them what was likely to go down.

My partner was nicknamed "Big Bad John" as he was about 6'4" and over 200 pounds and in Grade 9 already had 5 o'clock shadow by noon unlike most of us with peach fuzz - he was an imposing physical specimen. Of course what the bullies did not know was that John was pretty much a gentle giant (unlike myself who was a mean SOB when provoked) and it really took a lot to get him riled - his parents had been on him for years to "not hurt the littler kids" due to his size differential. Our hockey coach was constantly on him to use his size and strength to better effect. The only time I saw him lose really his temper was when I was slashed across the face cutting me open for stitches (no shields or face masks in those days)... John really tuned that guy up as I was being taken off the ice.

My teammates stepped in and separated the bully from his buddies - leaving me alone to deal with him. Of course he backed down when it was one on one. But before he left John came up to him and clamped down on his shoulder with one of his huge hands telling him that if he bothered me in any way in future the bully would have to deal with him. I thought the bully was going to void his bladder on the spot.Posted Image

For the rest of that school year any time I saw this guy bullying other students I intervened and he would back off. It did wonders for my rep at the school. Posted Image

The next year the bully was gone from school and the last I heard he had gone on to a career of petty crime and spent a good deal of time incarcerated over the years.

Edited by Wetcoaster, 26 October 2012 - 11:35 AM.

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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

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Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#140 Columbo

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 11:58 AM

I don't condone bullying but seriously, I've seen stuff like this growing up and it's been this way for ages. What is with kids these days, you'd think all the desensitization they would handle it even better than we did as children, it's sad that it's come to this.


Oh, so no one committed suicide in the time you were growing up? Funny fact, I didn't know that.
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#141 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 12:58 PM

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1980 Movie in which a kid 'hires' Adam Baldwin in order to protect himself from the bullying of Matt Dillon.

Not exactly a new concept.
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#142 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 12:59 PM

... But what if that 'bodyguard' tells you to flip off because he thinks those tweets and facebook posts about you are hilarious?
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#143 Stizz19

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 01:42 PM

Oh, so no one committed suicide in the time you were growing up? Funny fact, I didn't know that.


Kids did committ suicide, just not nearly as often as they do now. Teens are way more emo now than they used to be, social media might make it worse on them but thats just another bad excuse. And people acting like they actually give a **** is hilarious, bunch of armchair quarterbacks that sit behind their keyboards and type.
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#144 Shea Weber

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 01:47 PM

My issue with this topic is simply why should this be publicized to the extent of the Amanda Todd situation... Im sorry but it shouldn't, there are hundreds of people commiting suicide daily! I dont see storys and facebook pages for them? Or for the war hero who lost a limb or his life do you? Or how about my cousin! ever seen the movie "Taken" thats exactly what happened to my cousin! They don't have a facebook page!!!!!

I'm sorry I dont support bullying or suicide, I believe these 2 girls made the wrong choice in doing what they did! Suicide is never the answer! I was bullied! I almost jumped off a bridge but i'm still here! I still fight! A friend saved my life.. I just dont justify the over publicized nature of there storys!

Instead why don't people create one massive page or site dedicated to ALL these people! To share there storys, to mourn them and work together to fight this problem! Don't make certain people out to be better than others cause were all equal and everyone deserves to live and have a good life!!!
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#145 Shea Weber

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 01:51 PM

Double Post but nessacary! Everyone should watch this video!


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#146 Monty

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 02:01 PM

Or how about my cousin! ever seen the movie "Taken" thats exactly what happened to my cousin!

Was your cousin one of the guys killed by Liam Neeson?
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Can you imagine drowning AT a KK Rev concert?

  


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#147 J.R.

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 02:26 PM

Just a question: When you were a kid, did you have to deal with bullying every time you looked at your phone, or logged onto your computer?

Were the bullies able to spread the ridicule amongst hundreds of people with the mere touch of a button?


I think a contributing factor may also be the tendency for parents these days to demand false equality. We've seen the threads here about teachers being fired for having the gall to fail a kid who din't work hard enough and do the work. How all kids get participation awards etc.

Life is not all lollipops and rainbows and kids need to also learn how to deal with bad things when they happen. They need to learn they won't always be lauded for coming in last. They need to learn that not everyone will always get along.

I don't say this to take away from the obvious crape storm of bullying and who knows what else she should never have had to deal with but it could be PART of the reason as to why kids don't seem to be able deal with these problems as well presently.

Of course compounded by the 24/7 nature of the internet as well. That's where parents need to take responsibility as well. You're kids can only be bullied 24/7 online if they are allowed unsupervised online to the facebooks and twitters in the first place
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"Science is like an inoculation against charlatans who would have you believe whatever it is they tell you."
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#148 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 02:51 PM

Life is not all lollipops and rainbows and kids need to also learn how to deal with bad things when they happen. They need to learn they won't always be lauded for coming in last. They need to learn that not everyone will always get along.



Some kids do learn those things you've mentioned but are bullied anyway. Relentlessly, horrendously, inescapably........and there's a HUGE difference between learning that everyone will not always get along and being tormented and bullied every single day.

Edited by Bertuzzi Babe, 26 October 2012 - 03:08 PM.

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#149 OgS.MVP

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 02:55 PM

I do not know why we have no labour camps. We should have like they do in North Korea. You get to work in mines for a few months, never bully anyone ever again.
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#150 Heretic

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 03:04 PM

"Bullies are nothing more than cowards. That's why they often group together to pick on someone. When they're separated, they're gutless. That's why dealing with people individually is crucial. When you look him/her straight in the eye, he/she will begin to shrink."

http://www.drphil.co...les/article/245
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McCoy: We were speculating. Is God really out there?
Kirk: Maybe he's not out there, Bones. Maybe he's right here. [points to his heart]

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