*Official* CBA Negotiations and Lockout Thread

[Mauii]

The appeal of the NHL is that they have the best of the best...the best hockey players in the world and this is known internationally. With high/elite quality product you get high/elite dollars. You get what you pay for and then some. It would be naive of the NHL to think they can just ice anyone and still make 3.3 billion without skipping a beat. Nor does it make good business sense to dismantle a business that just raked in 3.3 billion in revenue. If they were losing 3.3 billion then yes drastic changes should be made. Not quite sure the intent of the NHL doing what they're doing or the principles their functioning on...are they willing to destroy a business just to show who's boss or do they truly believe dishonoring players, taking away their rights, not willing to negotiate with the union and replacing players is a good business move and is for the betterment of the league and business.

As it stands the NHL's methods of conducting their business in the course of this CBA negotiation is coming across very poorly. Continue down this path and they would be hard pressed to retain talent. I dont believe player's talks of jumping ship to be a negotiating tactic, it just makes good sense to not want to work for a company/business that does not respect your rights and contribution to the businesses and expect you to pay for their shortcomings. Money doesn't always cut it, there's also a thing called principles and choosing to work for a company you are proud of, have trust in and want to represent that provides mutual respect.

[poetica]

Just because someone has a different opinion then your does not mean they do not understand.

Maybe the meditor might look at things this way, 6 or 7 teams make a boat load of money, 18 teams lose money and 5 team sniff a small profit and on the other side 700 players all make money. 14% of these players make over 6M a year. The player has guarentee contracts so it doesn't matter if they score 70 goals or 1 goal, they will still get paid. They will not be fired if they do not produce. These top earning teams fork over money to teams that are not making a profit to help pay the salaries of the 23 players that are on losing revenue teams rosters. Every player is guarenteed to make a profit every year and the owner is not.

[The Bookie]

The appeal of the NHL is that they have the best of the best...the best hockey players in the world and this is known internationally. With high/elite quality product you get high/elite dollars. You get what you pay for and then some. It would be naive of the NHL to think they can just ice anyone and still make 3.3 billion without skipping a beat.

[-Vintage Canuck-]

Jon Rosen of Fox Sports West talked with Jaromir Jagr:

“Hopefully the season’s going to start. It would be very sad for everybody for us me and Teemu especially,” Jagr said. “We don’t have many games left. The separation, the goal separation is only two goals. It’s the final countdown. It would be kind of special, but you never know what’s going to happen.”

http://prohockeytalk..._medium=twitter

[-Vintage Canuck-]

Bruins’ Claude Julien coaches youth team while waiting for end to NHL lockout:

Boston Bruins coach Claude Julien is looking forward to the end of the NHL lockout.

He managed to have a little fun Sunday when he served as a guest coach for a youth team that won a charity raffle for his services. He was on the bench for Winthrop’s 3-2 victory over Watertown.

Julien addressed the team made up of 8- and 9-year-olds before and after the game. He also met with the other team and signed autographs for as long as it took for everyone to get items signed.

Julien is anxious to return to his job and says “the people that are involved in those negotiations want the same thing as well.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/bruins-claude-julien-coaches-youth-team-while-waiting-for-end-to-nhl-lockout/article4716509/?cmpid=rss1&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[StanleyCup=HolyGrail]

Is it time for a new league? I think this is the relevant question we the fans should really be asking. The NHL as we know is heading for oblivion. Determination to stay in markets that don't care about the game and therefore create a poorer on ice product as a result. Determination to try to force the players to pay for this financial screw up made by Mr Bettman and endorsed by the owners who are investors and the investment has most certainly gone bad. The result will be a league where former beer leaguers might be good enough to play in it. The better players will follow the money and go someplace else and I on their side. Any employer tries this crap on any of us and it is "F...you !!!, I am out of here." So Mr Bettman's NHL will be a feeder league for other leagues. The second rate and over the hill players that are not good enough to play elsewhere will be the ones playing in the NHL. And the owners are quite content to sell us this crap and probably will raise ticket prices for it so that they can expand into more markets that are guaranteed to lose tons of money. But they will be safe from loss because Joe Schmoe the fan gets the bill for it in the end. Bite me !!! Mr Bettman. It is time to kiss Bettman's NHL: good bye.

So, what should a proper league that gurantees continued excellance on the ice look like? Well, start by turning the owners into what they are. Nothing but investors. They have a vote and a say in what goes on sure. But in the end, people who actually run the business make the call. Given that the players are the business and without the best in the game playing in this league then this league sucks. The players are the ones that should be making that call. Perhaps with some quality advice from well educated professionals. In the business of entertainment and that is what this is, the entertainers get the lion's share of the pie and so they should. That is fair. I think the players have been excessively generous in their 50-50 split offer. It actually should be at least 60-40 in their favour. By the way people. When the players cut of the pie goes down. The revenue sharing that they are arguing over. We still have a cap and teams must get within it. So, everytime the players take a cut in that, guess who pays for it? We do. The dollars have to add up to stay under the cap. The revenues have to be there for that to happen and so everything goes up in cost. We, the fan will get the bill. So, the players are fighting for our dollar more then they are theirs. Think about that next time you get jealous that a hockey player earns millions to play a game that they love. Remember that an owner offered them that money in the form of a contract and now that same owner is trying to get out of paying some of it.

What i want to see is a deal where there are no disputes like this. This is the split, that is the way it will always be. We are going to negotiate over what to do to make the game better. More entertaining, safer for the players, etc. The split, players share and investors share is set in stone. NO MORE lockouts, strikes or other bull that only pisses your customers off. To the point where if I found out that hockey clubs in a new league were offering up public shares. You bet i am buying some.

[Drybone]

The NHL owns the rights to the stanley cup.

The players do not have a CBA and thus they dont work for the NHL. If it was illegal to lock them out, the NHLPA would have sued by now. They tried in two provinces and were shot down.

There is no 'time limit' the owners can lock the players out .........then it becomes ILLEGAL. Its legal and stays legal. The contracts all say there has to be a CBA to enforce the contracts.

There is no 'time limit' to how long they can lock these players out. They own the NHL and can hire whomever they want. The NHLPA .........get ready........are you sitting down..................

The NHLPA has no contract with the league. Its called a Collective Bargaining Agreement.

The NHLPA has no authority to FORCE the owners to sign a new one. They can tell the NHLPA to get lost and no, they dont have to honor contracts without a CBA.

Thats dead wrong.

The NHLPA players are locked out. There is nothing they can do about or they would have done so by now. What part of this dont you get?

I know its not what you kids want to read because ;you worship the players . I know , I used to be one of them. I still mancrush Ryan Kesler but I would tell him to go play in the KHL if push came to shove.

As for replacement players, there are THOUSANDS of players in various leagues including the AHL that would be more than glad to have NHL pay and NHL careers.

[theminister]

Drybone, you have no concept that labour laws exist in both countries that cover this type of situation.

You're just butthurt that people are pointing out your statements which are factually incorrect.

The NHL owns the Stanley Cup? Please.

[EmployeeoftheMonth]

The NHL owns the rights to the stanley cup.

The players do not have a CBA and thus they dont work for the NHL. If it was illegal to lock them out, the NHLPA would have sued by now. They tried in two provinces and were shot down.

There is no 'time limit' the owners can lock the players out .........then it becomes ILLEGAL. Its legal and stays legal. The contracts all say there has to be a CBA to enforce the contracts.

There is no 'time limit' to how long they can lock these players out. They own the NHL and can hire whomever they want. The NHLPA .........get ready........are you sitting down..................

The NHLPA has no contract with the league. Its called a Collective Bargaining Agreement.

The NHLPA has no authority to FORCE the owners to sign a new one. They can tell the NHLPA to get lost and no, they dont have to honor contracts without a CBA.

Thats dead wrong.

The NHLPA players are locked out. There is nothing they can do about or they would have done so by now. What part of this dont you get?

I know its not what you kids want to read because ;you worship the players . I know , I used to be one of them. I still mancrush Ryan Kesler but I would tell him to go play in the KHL if push came to shove.

As for replacement players, there are THOUSANDS of players in various leagues including the AHL that would be more than glad to have NHL pay and NHL careers.

[elvis15]

Drybone, you have no concept that labour laws exist in both countries that cover this type of situation.

You're just butthurt that people are pointing out your statements which are factually incorrect.

The NHL owns the Stanley Cup? Please.

[Tangerines]

So what happens next? Which one of these sides is going to commit to some kind of compromise first? This whole ordeal is driving me bonkers! What the heck will motivate these guys to make some progress let alone get them in the same room together agian?

[elvis15]

Hard to say, most likely one side will feel pressure to get an agreement done - pressure they hadn't felt to this point. For the league, it could be the cancellation of money making events like the Winter Classic and All Star games. For the players, it could be a tipping point in how much salary they lose, or the prospect of a full season being wasted.

First things first though, the NHL will have to agree to even talk about it.

[Mauii]

Drybone the CBA is between the NHL and NHLPA so the NHL does have to negotiate with the NHLPA. The NHL cannot negotiate a CBA with themselves, although they seem to be acting like it because they wont consider the NHLPA's counterproposals nor can the NHL hire new people to replace the players while negotiating a CBA with the NHLPA. How long can they continue with a lockout...who knows. When franchises start folding maybe. Kind of hard to sustain a business without any revenue coming in.

[DeNiro]

They better start negotiating it now, instead of waiting right up until the deadline like before.

Something tells me that the NHL doesn't know how to negotiate without using a pressure tactic like that though.

[Scoobydooby]

the longer this goea the less I feel like there will be a season at all.

once all is said and done I hopethe fans will t least try to teach the nhl as a whole a lesson and stop opening up their wallets for all things nhl related.. the fans should not have to put up with this bs and I really hope that when the lockout does end that fans will keep their money to themselves or support other leagues more willingly..

[The Bookie]

Has anyone else had the chance to read The Instigator, the book that was published in September chronicling Bettman's time as Commissioner of the league? I figured with all my spare time freed up from watching hockey, I should devote some time to learning a bit more so I picked it up yesterday and am already halfway through. Absolutely fascinating stuff, really helpful in understanding how they got to where they are today.

In the chapter I'm currently reading, the author details the significant inroads the NHL has made in the States since the 2004 lockout, particularly the Winter Classic and the new NBC national broadcast deal. It's really reinforced what I've said all along, that this time around the owners will not be willing to sacrifice an entire season, and all the momentum they've picked up down South. (in 2004, they basically had nothing to lose). I almost wonder if their back up plan all along has been to reach an agreement in December and have the WC as the first game of the season. It would certainly be huge publicity.

I guess we'll have a better idea by the end of the week.

Also, an interesting quote at the end of this National Post article from three days ago:

George Smith, a Queen’s University professor and former labour negotiator, suggested the NHL leaked word of a potential cancellation for a reason. Smith said the move to release the proposal to the public was an unusual step and that he believes “some of this tactic is actually to distract from that and get back to their agenda and get the owners all on board.”

[elvis15]

That's pretty accurate to what I think of the lockout this year as well. The last lockout was over major fundamental differences in what both sides wanted - namely the salary cap. This time around it's more about getting the numbers right, so I think there is less pressure on the players and more on the league considering all the momentum they had started to gain in the US and the major money events (WC, All Star) they would lose if they did cancel the season.

To DeNiro's point earlier, I think they know there is another option on how to negotiate, but either lack the skillset to do so where they think they can get a fair deal, or they have grossly underestimated the players and think they'll cave to heavy-handed tactics like false deadlines and take it or leave it deals.

While both sides will have to end up settling for less than they want, the first step is to have the NHL willing to even talk about something other than a minimal offer. Considering the power a small number of the owners have, there might even be an internal conflict that's really keeping things from moving forward. The profitable owners might be struggling against an increasing number of less powerful owners wanting to make a deal, and there could be a definite play going on behind the scenes that could result in a very quick resolution to this in order to avoid losing more of the season.

[DarthMelvin]

I have decided to take the name patch of Luongo off the jersey and put.........Wait for it......WAAAIIIIT~! "Aquilini" and then put the letter "O" where the C should be hahaaa GO OWNERS~!

[elvis15]

A couple of articles that put an interesting perspective on the financial strain the owners may or may not be under considering the overall health of the league and the lockout's impact:

NBA licensing revenue climbing

Staring into the teeth of a lockout a year ago, NBA licensing executives were anticipating that their business would drop by more than 25 percent.

Fast forward to today. In the NBA fiscal year that ended in September, licensing revenue was up in a season that was contracted by 16 games.

Even the bellwether apparel category was up, said Sal LaRocca, the NBA’s executive vice president of global merchandising, who had earlier predicted a double-digit drop in sales. “We were using 1999 [the date of the prior NBA lockout] as a benchmark for re-entry,” LaRocca said, “but I’m happy to say it was not an accurate benchmark.”

LaRocca offered a number of reasons for the unexpectedly positive results, including:

■ A condensed schedule of games that produced a seemingly continuous run of compelling NBA matchups;

■ Continued demand across the basketball category (Spalding had its best year in 29 years as an NBA licensee);

■ The seven-week Jeremy Lin phenomenon; and

■ Improvement by big-market teams such as Chicago and New York, the emergence of Oklahoma City, and the championship run of the Miami Heat and LeBron James, who normally is at or near the top in player-specific jersey sales.

...

[Wh!stler R!der]

With all this hurricane Sandy talk we can only hope that little dwarf got blown away in New York. Too cruel? Life's a (rhymes with witch) You'll get yours Gary!