*Official* CBA Negotiations and Lockout Thread

[ccc44]

The PA should have just negotiated the best deal they could off of the NHL's last proposal. Now they've royally screwed us all.

Some owners were pissed that the NHL even offered more than 47 to the players.

Now we're going to miss a whole season and the PA is going to end up signing a deal that is worse than the NHL's last offer.

The NHL could have been back in 2 days.

[poetica]

Your point to dangle from Crosby's jock straps

[The Bookie]

It might be time for me to just put those two on ignore and enjoy the company of people who are open to opinions and discussing things intelligently. Too bad there's nothing to discuss because the NHL won't even come to the table.

[elvis15]

...

And which player never had to work hard from childhood just for a shot at making it into the NHL?

...

[poetica]

Well, there is Yashin. He's even still taking home an NHL paycheque.

[Boudrias]

That's pathetic that Minnesota signed Parise and Suter to those ridiculous contracts and now they can't even afford them. That's the only reason those two guys went to Minnesota really. So they were basically tricked into signing lifetime contracts.

If Minnesota can't pay them, void the contract and let them become free agents again.

[Erik Karlsson]

One fear relating the lockout between the NHL and the Players' Association is what comes after the resolution.

The NHL is in its second lockout in seven years (third work stoppage in 20) and on a personal note, Ottawa Senators owner Eugene Melnyk is obviously far from happy.

Melnyk told Prime Time Sports on Wednesday that he once was a huge baseball fan until the strike in 1994 ended his fandom.

"Back in '94, I was a rabid baseball fan, I'm talking like a 40-45 game guy when I still lived in Toronto, I saw the World Series and (the Blue Jays) winning it, went to Atlanta; I was a crazy, crazy baseball fan and after the strike I was gone," Melnyk said. "(I'm) extremely disappointed like any fan of where we are, we should be playing hockey by now."

Hockey fans are in uproar over the current situation with backlash aimed towards both the owners and players, although Melnyk said the bottom line is there's no hockey.

"Everybody can finger point all they want but at the end of the day I don't think anybody cares who's at fault, all they know is we're not playing hockey," Melnyk said.

With a done deal looking gloomy, the whole season could be cancelled along with the Winter Classic between the Toronto Maple Leafs andDetroit Red Wings scheduled for Jan. 1.

"I think it's an important part of the game," Melnyk said. "It's got a huge audience, (it's) extremely profitable for the NHL which means it's also profitable for everyone else. It has become a marquee event that I think is very, very important to everyone."

If the Winter Classic does get cancelled, the league will reportedly be looking at a loss upwards of $15 million.

With the loss of 125 games as of Oct. 31 and quite possibly the full season being cancelled, the league could lose a part of a significant component when the dispute is resolved: fans.

The once baseball-crazed Melnyk only has the following to say about the sport today.

"I know theres a guy called Rodriguez who makes a lot of money, I couldn't name you another player and I don't care."

[The Bookie]

So tomorrow's the day, right? Does the NHL have until midnight tonight to cancel the WC, or is there a set deadline sometime tomorrow?

[gizmo2337]

The WC is getting cancelled (probably tomorrow) barring some last minute, behind the scenes miracle.

Sarcasm: The season is lost, the sky is falling!!! Next season is in jeopardy as well with the cap possibly being put back on the table. In other news, the league leading revenue team has their best start of the season since the last CBA expired, undefeated into November!

Sarcasm off: It's unfortunate, but the only way to kick both parties in the nuts is for fans in the top 5-7 teams to stop spending and cancel seasons tickets. TOR would be highest on that list. VAN is not too far behind. It won't happen, so the league under Batman continues to have the power. They need a dose of Kryptonite!! Seriously

[pomorick]

If I was an average NHL player who has played in the league for 5 years and have 5 million in the bank and just received $150,000 from escrow I am thinking go ahead cancel the season. I have 5 years left and a year to recover from all the cumulative injuries might actually extend that by a year or two. There's no way I'm backing down from that little weasel Bettman. Afterall I am a hockey player, a damn good one and I am a team player. Oh and I DO NOT LIKE TO LOSE!!!!

The lockout is the new version of NHL entertainment. A bit more like poker than hockey. The Count has seized center stage and has been casting melting glances at his nemesis the iceman without result much to his confusion.

In this battle I support the players 100 percent.

[canuckelhead70]

To date during the lockout, about 200 NHL players have gone abroad to play hockey. Players like Claude Giroux (German Elite league), Evgeni Malkin (KHL) and Matt Duchene (Swedish Elite league) have gone overseas.

We are, however, also seeing players get hurt. Guys like New Jersey Devils defenceman Anton Volchenkov, Boston Bruins goalie Tuukka Rask and Philadelphia Flyers forward Jakub Voracek have suffered injuries.

So here's the question: is there a risk that players could effectively be fired by a team if they get seriously hurt?

The answer is yes.

When players agree to play for an NHL team, they sign what's called a Standard Player's Contract - or SPC. Section 14 of the SPC provides that a team may terminate a player's contract if the player shall "fail, refuse or neglect to render his services hereunder or in any other manner materially breach" his contract.

So if a player suffers a career ending injury while playing abroad and that player therefore fails to deliver his services, a team could rely on Section 14 to cut him (or terminate his contract). If the team successfully terminates the contract, it wouldn't have to pay out what's left on the player's contract.

What if a player gets hurt playing overseas and misses some of the NHL season but is ultimately able to come back and play? In keeping with Section 5 of the SPC, a team can suspend him without pay until he's ready to play.

A team's ability impose penalties on players who get injured playing during the lockout is not a surprise to the NHLPA. The NHLPA addressed this by way of a Q&A memo to players in September:

Q: If I am currently under contract to an NHL Club and am injured while playing in another league during a lockout, how will my SPC be treated after the lockout is over?

A: We expect that your NHL Club would suspend you without pay until you are fit to play. There also is a possibility that the Club might take other disciplinary action. The NHLPA may be able to dispute such suspensions and disciplinary actions under the grievance and arbitration procedure.

By "other disciplinary action", the NHLPA, in part, is presumably referring to terminating a player's contract.

The NHLPA would vigorously fight any attempt by a team to terminate a contract. It would also contest an unreasonable suspension. That's why in the Q&A, the NHLPA said it could go the way of "grievance and arbitration" to fight for a player and his contract.

So given the risk of injury, the NHLPA, in that same Q&A, recommended that players get their contracts insured: "if you intend to play for a club in another league during a lockout, we recommend that you ask that club to insure the value of your SPC against injury. If the club is unwilling to do so, we recommend that you purchase disability insurance on your own."

And that's what players have been doing. It's a rough estimate, but it can cost somewhere between $10,000 to $25,000 per $1 million to insure a player's contract. So a player with a $5 million contract might have to pay $100,000 in insurance.

Overall, there is serious risk associated with NHL players playing abroad during the lockout. However, if they are properly insured, some might be able to mitigate that risk. Still, though, the situation is far from ideal.

Eric Macramalla is TSN's Legal Analyst and can be heard each week on TSN Radio 1050. You can follow him on Twitter @EricOnSportslaw.

[Boudrias]

Just as a point of interest. The NFL currently has $45 billion in TV contracts. Terms variable. Average team worth $1.1 billion. Dallas Cowboys most profitable at $227 mil. Average attendance: 85512 fans. 5 million Facebook fans. 31 million fans tuned into their Thanksgiving game against the Dolphins. The NHL has a way to go.

Many in Canada do not want to accept the reality that the future of the NHL resides in USA media sales. Gate driven franchises like the Oilers, Flames and Sens do not really support that goal. The irony is that Canadian clubs are currently keeping the league afloat. Even so, the main business goal has to be expansion of USA TV revenue. I suspect there is great unity amongst NHL ownership in that goal. It suggests the aggressive negociating posture by ownership as one of finally getting their ducks in a row prior to negociating a bigger TV contract, possibly with ESPN.

[DarthMelvin]

Oh players, my players....What are you trying to do? Why must we go through this? Why must you torture yourselves and others? You are losing! You are losing money as we speak, as another 2 weeks of pay rolls around the circle of the drain.....I read that 850,000.00 is not going to paid out again...to just one player to lose that kind of money, oh that must hurt. All the while owners are clearing out the registers in the other prominate businesses like Molson or Aquilini's family biz....Your fans most hanging from the bum straps of Crysby jock vouch and scream injustice in your name, as you make the HARD decision to play over seas as a scab. How easy it is for you to be off and running when things dont go your way...right Luongo. And to think I own 2 of his jersies. Oh well the Canucks need not worry I was seriously thinking of going out this weekend and getting the name changed to AQUILINI. Better yet since I am a fan of the Canucks, maybe Ill get pick up a new jersy. Choices are tough...Burrows or Lappi or maybe even a SEDIN...which one though....sigh tough times as a fan of the Canucks deciding on a jersy for myself...so many players coming and going its like trying see who is in it for the long haul...you never know the twins may get traded next year WOW. To think just seconds ago you read I was possibly going to buy thier jersey....its a sight when I go to games and see Bertuzzi and Morrison Jersies....can these fans not afford new ones are they nostalgic? Who cares...right it's the choice they make...as fans and as long as it has the beloved Nucks Logo flashing on the front it don't matter who is on the back...hell maybe Ill put FWYBWED on the back of my jersey...So as you read my musings and cringed at my grammar another NHL player's cheque just got tore up and another owner's cash register just went KA-CHING.

[Drive-By Body Pierce]

Your point to dangle from Crosby's jock straps and have others dangle with you has failed...Unlike Fehr The players are not that strong or dominate. Soon my friend the NHLPA will fall. I can feel the mounting pressure on Fehr...and it's heavy. He can feel it too of course. The sweat glands are opening and he is flush with every desperate phone call to Daly, the Mighty Fehr trucks on...But he knows it is a matter of time before the Lappies, Malholtra's and even the Burrow's of the league start talking to him in a tone that is unpleasant to even the most durable of ears. Your continuous effort lacks something....What does lack? Spirit...yes you lack team spirit and fan love sir....that's right I said fan LOVE. This is what the players to lack. They start young with dreams to hoist the NHL's Stanley Cup. They play hockey to pay tribute to a nation's favourite past time HOCKEY! But through the CBA we now see what really dwells within the mind of todays hockey player. It's not about pension plans anymore. Its about owning a piece of that NHL pie that the owners who put up mucho of the own hard earned coin from other business's that they built from the ground up to buy a franchise and join in this huge fray that is the NHL. Do not ask me why the players don't deserve it, better to ask the player what he has contributed the team in regards to the start up and continuous rattling of of day to day goings on in the day and life of a NHL franchise Besides stepping on to the ice...

[Hunter56]

...and now they cancel the Winter Classic...

[Drive-By Body Pierce]

Oh players, my players....What are you trying to do? Why must we go through this? Why must you torture yourselves and others? You are losing! You are losing money as we speak, as another 2 weeks of pay rolls around the circle of the drain.....I read that 850,000.00 is not going to paid out again...to just one player to lose that kind of money, oh that must hurt. All the while owners are clearing out the registers in the other prominate businesses like Molson or Aquilini's family biz....Your fans most hanging from the bum straps of Crysby jock vouch and scream injustice in your name, as you make the HARD decision to play over seas as a scab. How easy it is for you to be off and running when things dont go your way...right Luongo. And to think I own 2 of his jersies. Oh well the Canucks need not worry I was seriously thinking of going out this weekend and getting the name changed to AQUILINI. Better yet since I am a fan of the Canucks, maybe Ill get pick up a new jersy. Choices are tough...Burrows or Lappi or maybe even a SEDIN...which one though....sigh tough times as a fan of the Canucks deciding on a jersy for myself...so many players coming and going its like trying see who is in it for the long haul...you never know the twins may get traded next year WOW. To think just seconds ago you read I was possibly going to buy thier jersey....its a sight when I go to games and see Bertuzzi and Morrison Jersies....can these fans not afford new ones are they nostalgic? Who cares...right it's the choice they make...as fans and as long as it has the beloved Nucks Logo flashing on the front it don't matter who is on the back...hell maybe Ill put FWYBWED on the back of my jersey...So as you read my musings and cringed at my grammar another NHL player's cheque just got tore up and another owner's cash register just went KA-CHING.

[Aladeen]

We've known where you stand for some time, and to suggest that the logo is the only thing fans cheer for on a team is blatantly false. Do fans only look at the final scores and the overall standings, or do they also look at who scored, what player made the biggest hit, or which goalie made the best save?

If players didn't matter then why sell jerseys with names and numbers on them? If the quality of the on ice-product mattered less than wins, then why wouldn't owners just pay the guys from the beer league championship team $50,000 a year to beat the equivalent from another town?

Does the team matter? Sure, but to suggest the players have no bearing on how much you care about a team because they play and move on is to suggest that you don't really care about the family cat or dog because they have shorter life spans.

Your family crest must say, "I'm a fan of the family name, not who's in it," at the bottom.

[DarthMelvin]

...and now they cancel the Winter Classic...

[poetica]

Your post reads like a poor attempt at poetry.

[Erik Karlsson]

By Ken Warren and James Gordon

Ottawa Senators owner Eugene Melnyk can expect to hear from NHL commissioner Gary Bettman. And it won’t be to talk about the weather.

Melnyk broke the NHL’s internal policy against individual team personnel speaking about the on-going NHL lockout and collective bargaining agreement negotiations during a Wednesday interview on Toronto radio station The Fan 590. Among other comments, Melnyk said, “we should be playing hockey by now. Everybody knows it, and we’re not.”

Bettman and Bill Daly, the NHL’s deputy commissioner, are the only two league executives who have permission to speak publicly on the lockout-related matters.

“The league has a long-standing policy against club personnel speaking on collective bargaining matters,” Daly wrote in an email to the Citizen Thursday night. “It’s a serious policy and one that is well-founded in purpose and rationale.”

Daly says, however, that the league employs “discretion” and “common sense” in determining whether specific comments cross the line. He says the league will remind Melynk of the policy, but so far, the Seantors owner has not been fined or disciplined.

“We intend to talk to Eugene and understand the circumstances and context of his comments before determining next steps which, depending on their nature, are generally maintained as internal league matters and not disclosed publicly in any event.”

In other words, if Melnyk is fined or even slapped on the wrist, it won’t be made public.

While Melnyk’s words weren’t overly controversial, he came across sounding more like a passionate hockey fan than an NHL owner. He says fans don’t want to play the blame game over the NHL lockout — they just want to see some hockey.

“I’m extremely disappointed, like any fan, of where we are,” Melnyk said. “We should be playing hockey by now. Everybody knows it, and we’re not. Everybody can fingerpoint all they want, but at the end of the day, I don’t think anybody cares who’s at fault. All they know if we’re not playing hockey, why aren’t we playing hockey?”

Melnyk was also asked about the apathy some youngsters who may not even grasp the issues behind the impasse are feeling towards the league are feeling towards the league.

“I think of these kids too, 14 and under, kind of thing, they don’t even understand the concept of what’s going on. All they know is, there’s no hockey. So it’s a huge disappointment. You know, this should not happen, but it did, and you gotta do the best you can and live with it and hopefully resolve it and get back to playing.

Melnyk also revealed he was a rabid baseball fan when he was younger, but after the 1994 strike that wiped out the World Series, he was “gone.”

Now his baseball knowledge amounts to knowing “a guy named Rodriguez” and that he “makes a lot of money.

“I’m telling you, I couldn’t name another player and I don’t care.”

Major League Baseball suffered a great deal at the time and needed 10 years to get attendance back to where it was pre-strike.

As for the Winter Classic, which is expected to be cancelled Friday, Melnyk said: “Well I think it’s an important part of the game. It’s very widely, you know, it’s got a huge, huge audience. It’s extremely profitable for the NHL, which means its also profitable for everyone else. It is, you know, it has become a marquee event. It’s something that I think is very very important to everyone to promote the game everywhere. I mean, it’s a big, big deal.”

Melnyk also said he didn’t take advantage of the NHL’s window that allowed owners and general managers to talk to the players.

“Personally, I didn’t do any kind of outbound calls.”