Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

-Vintage Canuck-

*Official* CBA Negotiations and Lockout Thread

6,228 posts in this topic

This isn't some two-bit contracting firm with a few employees. Pretty much any large business with hundreds of skilled (domestic) workers, whose business is selling the expertise of these workers, will spend well over half their revenues in salaries.

It cost money to pay people, at any level. In the organization I work for, over 95% of hundreds of millions of dollars of expenses are for workers' compensation. And almost all of these people make only 40-100k a year.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"#$$#^*(**(((&&())))&&^%$%#@!#%^&!"

That's just how I feel, man.

I can't believe the idiocy of the NHL and the NHLPA, but mostly Bettman and his cronies. The fans are angry. The players are so angry they're willing to cut off their nose despite their face.

Over half the owners seem to be being held hostage by the others, they must be angry.

This is TERRIBLE for the game, for the fans, for the owners. Everyone!

It's devolved, once again, into an ego battle, with very little common sense to be found.

I know I'm just venting, and not saying anything, but I need to.

So:

%&*%&^$%(()*&^(%^)&^()*^)(&)_*(&^&*^)(&(&)(^)&^)^*()&^)^(((*&%^%$%$**&^%$%$#@#!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As an owner of a hockey team or business, wouldnt You be upset, if You were paying your employees more money in a yr, than you make profit for yourself, after paying employees,staff,travel,expenses,rent,stress etc?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any arguments that the owners are not trying to gouge the players as much as possible are completely shot down by the first "offer" from the league.

43% of HRR? Are you kidding me?

It should be completely obvious to everyone that the owners intended from day one to go for the throat, and squeeze out every last concession they possibly could.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

<p>

@ChrisBottaNHL

Source: if there isn't a deal in place in next 7days, NHL will cancel games thru Dec. 15. Next cancellation could be the season.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's been awhile since the last lockout, so if anyone needs a refresher on the timeline of events from the last lockout, it is here:

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/cba/features/chronology.html

Some of the events in there are chilling, filled with Bettman "ultimatum's", and "deadlines".

The contracting item that scares me the most is the 8 year UFA. If the owners insist on this, the season is gone, *for sure*. Realistically, the only contracting change that should be needed is the %variance to defeat the back-loaded contracts.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's been awhile since the last lockout, so if anyone needs a refresher on the timeline of events from the last lockout, it is here:

http://www.cbc.ca/sp...chronology.html

Some of the events in there are chilling, filled with Bettman "ultimatum's", and "deadlines".

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Realistically, the only contracting change that should be needed is the %variance to defeat the back-loaded contracts.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's been awhile since the last lockout, so if anyone needs a refresher on the timeline of events from the last lockout, it is here:

http://www.cbc.ca/sp...chronology.html

Some of the events in there are chilling, filled with Bettman "ultimatum's", and "deadlines".

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Makes you wonder how league revenues have grown so much... What has changed? Has anything really changed? New arenas but corporate buy-in is still low, no real local big TV deals. Canadian $ ... but most of the teams are in the USA. Marketing - maybe a bit better, but where are the returns exactly?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Feb. 15: The NHL offers an ultimatum, saying the union has until 11 a.m. ET to accept a salary cap of $42.5 million. Goodenow tries to negotiate, making an offer of a $49-million cap. The league rejects it.

Feb. 16: Bettman cancels the 2004-05 NHL season at a news conference in New York.

March 1: League says the 2005-06 season will go ahead as scheduled and hints at using replacement players after a board of governors meeting.

The NHL looks foolish for not taking that offer now. A fixed cap of 49m would have been a steal for the owners by now.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Of course, whats wrong with that? It should be obvious when you spend hundreds of millions on a business you should at least turn some sort of profit. With the salaries at 57% of revenue most of the teams are losing money. Whats wrong with trying to get a favorable deal?

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How much clout does Jeremy Jacobs have over Gary Bettman? Apparently all through last weeks negotiations, without his presence, talks were going smoothly, he appeared, and now talks are at a stalemate. If this guy is the one thats holding fans at ransom, I think the Bruin organization should be inundated with messages.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I let this slide because I mistakenly believed that the League was actually bargaining in good faith. If we lose an entire season, I and other passionate hockey fans will plaster this on every social media site we can think of. We will even take this to other sports to see if they want to get back at greedy owners even if from another sport. We've had enough!!!!!!!

"Almost all of the owners (/owning entities) of NHL teams have large stakes in other businesses. By uniting a large group of NHL fans to start a boycott of at least some of these businesses, right now, we may be able to influence the owners in some way. At the very least, we can let them know that their actions are affecting us in a negative way, so we have the ability and power to do the same to them.

Here is a list of NHL owners (from http://icehockey.wik...t_of_NHL_Owners), and other businesses that they have a large stake in. You may be surprised at some of the names - if not the sheer quantity:

Henry Samueli  - Anaheim Ducks

Broadcom Corporation - Computer & Telecommunications Networking

  

Jeremy Jacobs  - Boston Bruins  

Chairman of Delaware North Companies (hospitality and food service company)

Terrence Pegula - Buffalo Sabres

Owns the AHL Rocester Americans.

N. Murray Edwards - Calgary Flames

Owns Canadian Natural Resources (oilsands development). Also owns Resorts of the Canadian Rockies, which owns Fernie Alpine Resort, Kimberley Alpine Resort, Nakiska, Stoneham Mountain Resort, and Mont-Sainte-Anne, Kicking Horse Resort.

Peter Karmanos - Carolina Hurricanes

Owns Compuware, large business software developer

Rocky Wirtz - Chicago Blackhawks

Rocky oversees Wirtz Corporation's commercial and residential real estate companies, wine distributor Wirtz Beverage Group, an insurance company and banks in Illinois and Florida. Wirtz is also the co-chairman of the Executive Committee of the United Center.

  

Stan Kroenke - Colorado Avalanche

Owns Kroenke Sports Enterprises, which in addition to the AVS, controls the Denver Nuggets (NBA), Colorado Rapids (MLS), Colorado Mammoth (NLL) and St. Louis Rams (NFL).

JMAC Inc. - Columbus Blue Jackets  

n/a

Tom Gaglardi - Dallas Stars

Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer of Sandman Hotels, Inns & Suites and Moxie's Restaurants, LP. Also part owner of Kamloops Blazers.

  

Mike Ilitch - Detroit Red Wings

Also owns Little Cesars Pizza and the Detroit Tigers.

  

Rexall Sports (of Katz Group) - Edmonton Oilers

Owns over 1800 pharmacies in Canada, under the names: Rexall, Herbie's for Drug and Food, Meditrust Pharmacy, Pharma Plus, Super Drug Mart, and Dell Pharmacies.

Cliff Viner (& Stu Siegel?) - Florida Panthers

Cliff Viner is a general partner with AVM, LP a fixed income broker/dealer, and III Associates, a fixed income derivatives money management firm. Last I heard, Stu Siegel sold his shares in the team.

  

Philip Anschutz & Edward Roski Jr. - Los Angeles Kings

Philip Anschutz owns or has stakes in MLS teams LA Galaxy, Chicago Fire, Houston Dynamo, San Jose Earthquakes, and the NY/NJ Metro Stars; Los Angeles Lakers; Staples Center and O2 Arena; and the Home Depot Center. Ed Roski is also a part owner of the Lakers, and owns the Silverton Casino Lodge in Las Vegas.

  

Craig Leipold - Minnesota Wild

Leipold's companies own the Grand Ol' Opry in Nashville, and the Houston Aeros AHL team. They also manage the Xcel Energy Center and the Saint Paul RiverCentre.

Molson Family - Montreal Canadiens

Molson is a big invester in the NHL (for many teams), besides owning a cornerstone franchise. Their beers include Canadian, Coors, Ice, Golden, Export, Dry, XXX, Stock Ale, Rickard's, Pilsner, Carling, Keystone, Bohemian, and Calgary Export. Owns partial stakes in the Brazilian brands A Marca Bavaria and Kaiser. In Canada, has the marketing and selling rights for Corona, Heineken, and Miller brands.

  

Predators Holdings LLC - Nashville Predators

Owns and operates Bridgestone arena.  

Jeffrey Vanderbeek - New Jersey Devils

Owns the Prudential Center (but maybe not for long!)

  

Charles Wang - New York Islanders

Owner of CA Technologies (systems software developer) and the Bridgport Sound Tigers AHL team.

James Dolan - New York Rangers

Also President and CEO of Cablevision Systems Corporation (only operates in NYC - unrelated to Cablevision Canada).  

Eugene Melnyk - Ottawa Senators

He is the founder, and former chairman and CEO of Biovail Corporation (Parmaceuticals), which merged with merged with Valeant Pharmaceuticals International in 2010. Its major products include Cesamet (nabilone), Efudex, Mestinon, Diastat, and Ribavirin.

Comcast-Spectator - Philadelphia Flyers

Comcast is a major Internet/Cable/Phone provider in the US.

  

NHL - Phoenix Coyotes

Hah!

Mario Lemieux & Ron Burkle - Pittsburgh Penguins

Ron Burkle has his fingers in a lot of pies. Some of the major ones are: 20.7% stake in Americold Realty Trust; major invester in Sean John clothing line; small stakes of Barnes & Noble and American Apparel. Significant stake in Relativity Media, which produced such films as Let Me In, Limitless, Machine Gun Preacher, Mirror Mirror, The Raven, and upcoming releases such as The House at the End of the Street, Movie 43, and Safe Haven.

Sports Capital Partners - St. Louis Blues

Owns Real Madrid! Also Real Salt Lake (MLS), Peoria Rivermen (AHL), Scottrade Center, Peabody Opera House, KALL700 Sports Radio, and Tupelo-Honey productions.

Sharks Entertainment Enterprises - San Jose Sharks

Owns the HP Pavillion and Worcester Sharks. Also a minority shareholder in the San Jose Earthquakes (MLS).

Jeff Vinik - Tampa Bay Lightning  

Also owns the Tampa Bay Storm. Minority owner of the Boston Red Sox. Also on board of directors for Liverpool Football Club.

M.L.S.E - Toronto Maple Leafs

Also owns the Raptors, Marlies (AHL), Toronto FC (MLS), Air Canada Centre, Ricoh Coliseum, BMO Field, Mastercard Centre, and Real Sports.

Canucks Sports and Entertainment - Vancouver Canucks

Also owns Rogers Arena. But it is 100% owned by Aquilini Investment Group, which owns/operates: multi-storey residential developments in Vancouver including the King Edward Village, Richards Living tower, and Maynards Block; proponent of the proposed $2.6B Garibaldi at Squamish resort; half ownership of Halifax-based Pacrim Hospitality Services, which owns and manages 30 hotels across Canada, and all Pizza Hut locations in BC; creator and producer of Bassano Hard Soda.

Ted Leonsis - Washington Capitals

Also majority owner of majority owner of the Washington Wizards (NBA), Washington Mystics (WNBA) and the Verizon Center. Founder and Chairman of SnagFilms, which offers ad-supported documentaries. Vice chairman of Groupon and on the board of American Express.

True North Sports and Entertainment - Winnipeg Jets

Owns and operates the MTS Centre, and the St. John's Ice Caps (AHL).

Now, obviously every person will not be a direct consumer of these companies. However, I am going to make my own "boycott list". I encourage any of you to do the same.

So, if a lockout is declared on September 15th, I will begin a boycott of the following:

- All beers produced/distributed by Molson (no Heinekin or Corona)

- Rexall drugs (normally gets around $50/month from me)

- Moxies

- Little Cesars

- Pizza Hut (BC)

- Sandman Hotels

- All films produced by Relativity Media

- Premiership games with Liverpool or Real Madrid, merchandise for either team

- Will try to influence brother-in-law to boycott St. Louis Rams (he's a huge fan)

- Fernie Alpine Resort, Kimberley Alpine Resort, Nakiska, Stoneham Mountain Resort, and Kicking Horse Resort (I go to Kicking Horse every year)

- No events at Rogers Arena when I'm in Vancouver (I catch concerts here)

- Bassano Hard Soda (will tell everyone it's terrible)

Feel free to spread this by any means possible. I am going to start tweeting information/etc. using hashtag #fanlockout." from the thread BETTER KNOW A BOYCOTT  by D-Money

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're right. They're not. They make more. The NHL doesn't release their gross revenue numbers as far as I know, only HRR which is certain revenues (excluding, for example, any non-NHL related revenue generated by an arena owned by the team) and after certain allowed deductions for costs.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some of that makes perfectly good sense to not include though. If U2 goes on tour and that generates revenue for Rogers Arena, should that be included? Or what about in Calgary where (if I'm not mistaken) the Flames own the WHL Hitmen. Neither of these examples are part of the core operation of an NHL franchise so I don't feel they should be included.

At the same time, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if there were things that really ought to be tied to hockey that the owners are trying to exclude.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is fine to deduct those revenues but it isn't fine to deduct ANY costs from the revenues.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some of that makes perfectly good sense to not include though. If U2 goes on tour and that generates revenue for Rogers Arena, should that be included? Or what about in Calgary where (if I'm not mistaken) the Flames own the WHL Hitmen. Neither of these examples are part of the core operation of an NHL franchise so I don't feel they should be included.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.