Li'l Fra Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 "#$$#^*(**(((&&())))&&^%$%#@!#%^&!" That's just how I feel, man. I can't believe the idiocy of the NHL and the NHLPA, but mostly Bettman and his cronies. The fans are angry. The players are so angry they're willing to cut off their nose despite their face. Over half the owners seem to be being held hostage by the others, they must be angry. This is TERRIBLE for the game, for the fans, for the owners. Everyone! It's devolved, once again, into an ego battle, with very little common sense to be found. I know I'm just venting, and not saying anything, but I need to. So: %&*%&^$%(()*&^(%^)&^()*^)(&)_*(&^&*^)(&(&)(^)&^)^*()&^)^(((*&%^%$%$**&^%$%$#@#! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poetica Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 As an owner of a hockey team or business, wouldnt You be upset, if You were paying your employees more money in a yr, than you make profit for yourself, after paying employees,staff,travel,expenses,rent,stress etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHL rocks Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Any arguments that the owners are not trying to gouge the players as much as possible are completely shot down by the first "offer" from the league. 43% of HRR? Are you kidding me? It should be completely obvious to everyone that the owners intended from day one to go for the throat, and squeeze out every last concession they possibly could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWMc1 Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 <p> @ChrisBottaNHL Source: if there isn't a deal in place in next 7days, NHL will cancel games thru Dec. 15. Next cancellation could be the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWMc1 Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 I support the players 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizmo2337 Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 It's been awhile since the last lockout, so if anyone needs a refresher on the timeline of events from the last lockout, it is here: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/cba/features/chronology.html Some of the events in there are chilling, filled with Bettman "ultimatum's", and "deadlines". The contracting item that scares me the most is the 8 year UFA. If the owners insist on this, the season is gone, *for sure*. Realistically, the only contracting change that should be needed is the %variance to defeat the back-loaded contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shift-4 Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 It's been awhile since the last lockout, so if anyone needs a refresher on the timeline of events from the last lockout, it is here: http://www.cbc.ca/sp...chronology.html Some of the events in there are chilling, filled with Bettman "ultimatum's", and "deadlines". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poetica Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Realistically, the only contracting change that should be needed is the %variance to defeat the back-loaded contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucksnihilist Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 The NHL created this monster problem in 2004 Read more: http://www.ottawacit...l#ixzz2CFXLW1or Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bookie Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 It's been awhile since the last lockout, so if anyone needs a refresher on the timeline of events from the last lockout, it is here: http://www.cbc.ca/sp...chronology.html Some of the events in there are chilling, filled with Bettman "ultimatum's", and "deadlines". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poetica Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Makes you wonder how league revenues have grown so much... What has changed? Has anything really changed? New arenas but corporate buy-in is still low, no real local big TV deals. Canadian $ ... but most of the teams are in the USA. Marketing - maybe a bit better, but where are the returns exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizmo2337 Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Feb. 15: The NHL offers an ultimatum, saying the union has until 11 a.m. ET to accept a salary cap of $42.5 million. Goodenow tries to negotiate, making an offer of a $49-million cap. The league rejects it. Feb. 16: Bettman cancels the 2004-05 NHL season at a news conference in New York. March 1: League says the 2005-06 season will go ahead as scheduled and hints at using replacement players after a board of governors meeting. The NHL looks foolish for not taking that offer now. A fixed cap of 49m would have been a steal for the owners by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Of course, whats wrong with that? It should be obvious when you spend hundreds of millions on a business you should at least turn some sort of profit. With the salaries at 57% of revenue most of the teams are losing money. Whats wrong with trying to get a favorable deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johngould21 Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 How much clout does Jeremy Jacobs have over Gary Bettman? Apparently all through last weeks negotiations, without his presence, talks were going smoothly, he appeared, and now talks are at a stalemate. If this guy is the one thats holding fans at ransom, I think the Bruin organization should be inundated with messages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMelvin Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 I let this slide because I mistakenly believed that the League was actually bargaining in good faith. If we lose an entire season, I and other passionate hockey fans will plaster this on every social media site we can think of. We will even take this to other sports to see if they want to get back at greedy owners even if from another sport. We've had enough!!!!!!! "Almost all of the owners (/owning entities) of NHL teams have large stakes in other businesses. By uniting a large group of NHL fans to start a boycott of at least some of these businesses, right now, we may be able to influence the owners in some way. At the very least, we can let them know that their actions are affecting us in a negative way, so we have the ability and power to do the same to them. Here is a list of NHL owners (from http://icehockey.wik...t_of_NHL_Owners), and other businesses that they have a large stake in. You may be surprised at some of the names - if not the sheer quantity: Henry Samueli - Anaheim Ducks Broadcom Corporation - Computer & Telecommunications Networking Jeremy Jacobs - Boston Bruins Chairman of Delaware North Companies (hospitality and food service company) Terrence Pegula - Buffalo Sabres Owns the AHL Rocester Americans. N. Murray Edwards - Calgary Flames Owns Canadian Natural Resources (oilsands development). Also owns Resorts of the Canadian Rockies, which owns Fernie Alpine Resort, Kimberley Alpine Resort, Nakiska, Stoneham Mountain Resort, and Mont-Sainte-Anne, Kicking Horse Resort. Peter Karmanos - Carolina Hurricanes Owns Compuware, large business software developer Rocky Wirtz - Chicago Blackhawks Rocky oversees Wirtz Corporation's commercial and residential real estate companies, wine distributor Wirtz Beverage Group, an insurance company and banks in Illinois and Florida. Wirtz is also the co-chairman of the Executive Committee of the United Center. Stan Kroenke - Colorado Avalanche Owns Kroenke Sports Enterprises, which in addition to the AVS, controls the Denver Nuggets (NBA), Colorado Rapids (MLS), Colorado Mammoth (NLL) and St. Louis Rams (NFL). JMAC Inc. - Columbus Blue Jackets n/a Tom Gaglardi - Dallas Stars Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer of Sandman Hotels, Inns & Suites and Moxie's Restaurants, LP. Also part owner of Kamloops Blazers. Mike Ilitch - Detroit Red Wings Also owns Little Cesars Pizza and the Detroit Tigers. Rexall Sports (of Katz Group) - Edmonton Oilers Owns over 1800 pharmacies in Canada, under the names: Rexall, Herbie's for Drug and Food, Meditrust Pharmacy, Pharma Plus, Super Drug Mart, and Dell Pharmacies. Cliff Viner (& Stu Siegel?) - Florida Panthers Cliff Viner is a general partner with AVM, LP a fixed income broker/dealer, and III Associates, a fixed income derivatives money management firm. Last I heard, Stu Siegel sold his shares in the team. Philip Anschutz & Edward Roski Jr. - Los Angeles Kings Philip Anschutz owns or has stakes in MLS teams LA Galaxy, Chicago Fire, Houston Dynamo, San Jose Earthquakes, and the NY/NJ Metro Stars; Los Angeles Lakers; Staples Center and O2 Arena; and the Home Depot Center. Ed Roski is also a part owner of the Lakers, and owns the Silverton Casino Lodge in Las Vegas. Craig Leipold - Minnesota Wild Leipold's companies own the Grand Ol' Opry in Nashville, and the Houston Aeros AHL team. They also manage the Xcel Energy Center and the Saint Paul RiverCentre. Molson Family - Montreal Canadiens Molson is a big invester in the NHL (for many teams), besides owning a cornerstone franchise. Their beers include Canadian, Coors, Ice, Golden, Export, Dry, XXX, Stock Ale, Rickard's, Pilsner, Carling, Keystone, Bohemian, and Calgary Export. Owns partial stakes in the Brazilian brands A Marca Bavaria and Kaiser. In Canada, has the marketing and selling rights for Corona, Heineken, and Miller brands. Predators Holdings LLC - Nashville Predators Owns and operates Bridgestone arena. Jeffrey Vanderbeek - New Jersey Devils Owns the Prudential Center (but maybe not for long!) Charles Wang - New York Islanders Owner of CA Technologies (systems software developer) and the Bridgport Sound Tigers AHL team. James Dolan - New York Rangers Also President and CEO of Cablevision Systems Corporation (only operates in NYC - unrelated to Cablevision Canada). Eugene Melnyk - Ottawa Senators He is the founder, and former chairman and CEO of Biovail Corporation (Parmaceuticals), which merged with merged with Valeant Pharmaceuticals International in 2010. Its major products include Cesamet (nabilone), Efudex, Mestinon, Diastat, and Ribavirin. Comcast-Spectator - Philadelphia Flyers Comcast is a major Internet/Cable/Phone provider in the US. NHL - Phoenix Coyotes Hah! Mario Lemieux & Ron Burkle - Pittsburgh Penguins Ron Burkle has his fingers in a lot of pies. Some of the major ones are: 20.7% stake in Americold Realty Trust; major invester in Sean John clothing line; small stakes of Barnes & Noble and American Apparel. Significant stake in Relativity Media, which produced such films as Let Me In, Limitless, Machine Gun Preacher, Mirror Mirror, The Raven, and upcoming releases such as The House at the End of the Street, Movie 43, and Safe Haven. Sports Capital Partners - St. Louis Blues Owns Real Madrid! Also Real Salt Lake (MLS), Peoria Rivermen (AHL), Scottrade Center, Peabody Opera House, KALL700 Sports Radio, and Tupelo-Honey productions. Sharks Entertainment Enterprises - San Jose Sharks Owns the HP Pavillion and Worcester Sharks. Also a minority shareholder in the San Jose Earthquakes (MLS). Jeff Vinik - Tampa Bay Lightning Also owns the Tampa Bay Storm. Minority owner of the Boston Red Sox. Also on board of directors for Liverpool Football Club. M.L.S.E - Toronto Maple Leafs Also owns the Raptors, Marlies (AHL), Toronto FC (MLS), Air Canada Centre, Ricoh Coliseum, BMO Field, Mastercard Centre, and Real Sports. Canucks Sports and Entertainment - Vancouver Canucks Also owns Rogers Arena. But it is 100% owned by Aquilini Investment Group, which owns/operates: multi-storey residential developments in Vancouver including the King Edward Village, Richards Living tower, and Maynards Block; proponent of the proposed $2.6B Garibaldi at Squamish resort; half ownership of Halifax-based Pacrim Hospitality Services, which owns and manages 30 hotels across Canada, and all Pizza Hut locations in BC; creator and producer of Bassano Hard Soda. Ted Leonsis - Washington Capitals Also majority owner of majority owner of the Washington Wizards (NBA), Washington Mystics (WNBA) and the Verizon Center. Founder and Chairman of SnagFilms, which offers ad-supported documentaries. Vice chairman of Groupon and on the board of American Express. True North Sports and Entertainment - Winnipeg Jets Owns and operates the MTS Centre, and the St. John's Ice Caps (AHL). Now, obviously every person will not be a direct consumer of these companies. However, I am going to make my own "boycott list". I encourage any of you to do the same. So, if a lockout is declared on September 15th, I will begin a boycott of the following: - All beers produced/distributed by Molson (no Heinekin or Corona) - Rexall drugs (normally gets around $50/month from me) - Moxies - Little Cesars - Pizza Hut (BC) - Sandman Hotels - All films produced by Relativity Media - Premiership games with Liverpool or Real Madrid, merchandise for either team - Will try to influence brother-in-law to boycott St. Louis Rams (he's a huge fan) - Fernie Alpine Resort, Kimberley Alpine Resort, Nakiska, Stoneham Mountain Resort, and Kicking Horse Resort (I go to Kicking Horse every year) - No events at Rogers Arena when I'm in Vancouver (I catch concerts here) - Bassano Hard Soda (will tell everyone it's terrible) Feel free to spread this by any means possible. I am going to start tweeting information/etc. using hashtag #fanlockout." from the thread BETTER KNOW A BOYCOTT by D-Money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goalie13 Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 You're right. They're not. They make more. The NHL doesn't release their gross revenue numbers as far as I know, only HRR which is certain revenues (excluding, for example, any non-NHL related revenue generated by an arena owned by the team) and after certain allowed deductions for costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shift-4 Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Some of that makes perfectly good sense to not include though. If U2 goes on tour and that generates revenue for Rogers Arena, should that be included? Or what about in Calgary where (if I'm not mistaken) the Flames own the WHL Hitmen. Neither of these examples are part of the core operation of an NHL franchise so I don't feel they should be included. At the same time, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if there were things that really ought to be tied to hockey that the owners are trying to exclude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goalie13 Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 It is fine to deduct those revenues but it isn't fine to deduct ANY costs from the revenues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poetica Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Some of that makes perfectly good sense to not include though. If U2 goes on tour and that generates revenue for Rogers Arena, should that be included? Or what about in Calgary where (if I'm not mistaken) the Flames own the WHL Hitmen. Neither of these examples are part of the core operation of an NHL franchise so I don't feel they should be included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bookie Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Little weird that the threat right now is cancelling only the first half of Dec games. They wiped out both October and November in one go. The NBA lockout ended on Dec 16 (that's when games started again). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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