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*Official* CBA Negotiations and Lockout Thread

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For anyone who missed Pierre LeBrun's blog, here's what other fans are saying:

Giving the fans a voice in the CBA talks

I vented on Twitter Friday morning that it’s utterly insane that this lockout is still happening.

The league says Don Fehr refuses to make a deal. The NHLPA says Gary Bettman is intent on crushing the players’ union, not making a fair deal.

Enough already.

Let’s focus on the people that really matter in this ridiculous labor impasse: those who foot the bill year in and year out.

This blog is dedicated the folks who haven’t been invited to CBA meetings and who don’t get to voice their opinion on TV.

The fans get a voice here:

@
I don't plan on purchasing tickets whenever the season starts. Probably won't next season either....— Blues Hockey Podcast (@BluesHockeyPodc)
I have given @
and @
until Dec 1 to get a deal done. If not, I will never watch hockey again. It will hurt. A lot.— Jason Cassidy (@jaybone1978)
I have a black and orange ribbon on my car that says "Save my hockey!" from the last lockout, I am about to take it off.— John Laconca (@Laconca)
fans are middle fingers with small wallets and long memories.— Arlin Ginther (@ArlinGinther)
will never pay to go to another game— GJ Courville (@GJCourville)
https://twitter.com/GJCourville/status/269464110427668480' rel="external nofollow">

@
2b honest, when hockey finally comes back I'll watch on tv. Will NOT buy anymore tix, jerseys or merch tho. Not after this— Dammit (@DogmataDeke)
I just canceled my season tickets and I will not get them again. I wish others would do the same and stick it to the league— Steve Cassel (@cassel191919)
My anger was replaced by apathy long before this latest outrage.
— David Coffey (@Dtcoff)
here's the thing: my heart wants to come back. my head doesn't. I am going to really let my head have a go at it this time.— curtisandrews (@curtisandrews)
I feel like a toddler who is upset but they just can't verbalize it so they sit there even more frustrated.
— Thomas Scott (@scottischicago)
https://twitter.com/scottischicago/status/269463468816601089' rel="external nofollow">

@
I removed my name from the pens season ticket list. Pens say a lot are. Don't Want to got thru this every 6 years— Jim (@jssst12)
as a moderate fan of the game (and the Caps), I've become so turned off that I don't know if/when I'll be interested again.— S. Biscuit (@StankyBiscuit)
https://twitter.com/StankyBiscuit/status/269462852878880769' rel="external nofollow">

@
I think both parties under estimate how quicky people move in this day and age— Steve N (@KINGS1973)
what I fear is that everytime a new CBA needs to be done there's going to be a lockout.— Amber Reynolds (@ZijaFanatik105)
https://twitter.com/ZijaFanatik105/status/269462162123153409' rel="external nofollow">

@
I'll watch on TV when they come back - but buy tickets?Not for a long long time.— Russ Andolina (@rjandolina)
https://twitter.com/rjandolina/status/269462036608589824' rel="external nofollow">

@
told all my family NOT to buy me anything NHL related for Christmas.
— Ferg(@Ferg__)
https://twitter.com/Ferg__/status/269462003255504896' rel="external nofollow">

@
Called yesterday and took my name off of the Hawks season ticket waiting list.
$$— Steve Racine (@poker_hockey)
https://twitter.com/poker_hockey/status/269461773902553088' rel="external nofollow">

@
I know I'll come back to it in time, but no season this year means I won't buy anything NHL in 1st season back.
— Kyle Ailinger (@KAilinger)
https://twitter.com/KAilinger/status/269461606184919042' rel="external nofollow">

@
i say thank you pierre for finally seeing it from a fans eye view, this time its not going to be easy to forgive & forget— enio bisecco (@Bisecco11)
https://twitter.com/Bisecco11/status/269461588363337728' rel="external nofollow">

@
You can't expect fans to keep coming back to a league that has a lockout everytime it's CBA is up— Robert Schneider (@SchneiderSez)
https://twitter.com/SchneiderSez/status/269461394875887616' rel="external nofollow">

@
If the season is lost...so is my 2300 per season...forever maybe— Tony Flores (@JDandTurkelton)
https://twitter.com/JDandTurkelton/status/269461363263406080' rel="external nofollow">

@
Will rebound here in MTL/Tor. What about Fla,Nash,Tpa or Columbus. Missing it but not craving it. Life goes on.— J.B. (@montreal57)
https://twitter.com/montreal57/status/269461261891293184' rel="external nofollow">

@
Amen to that! I am really peeved this time. I don't want a watered-down season. My kids are confused & missing it. Sad— Dan Levine (@DBL1216)
https://twitter.com/DBL1216/status/269461255130058752' rel="external nofollow">

@
The last lockout was hard for me to get through...This time, I really do not care...
— MMarcelloni (@MMarcelloni)
https://twitter.com/MMarcelloni/status/269460975369986048' rel="external nofollow">

@
$650m lost so far. At what point in the lockout do both sides lose more than the difference they'refighting over?— Tim Horton (@timothy_horton)
https://twitter.com/timothy_horton/status/269460958668271617' rel="external nofollow">

@
It will be exponentially worse this time around. I'm a hardcore fan and I'm boycotting when (if?) it starts up
— Cory Ingjaldson (@cory_ingjaldson)
https://twitter.com/cory_ingjaldson/status/269460948388040704' rel="external nofollow">

@
I know a few people that really jumped on the
playoff bandwagon last spring. They could care less now.
— Chris Gatti (@cwgatti)
https://twitter.com/cwgatti/status/269460833250205697' rel="external nofollow">

@
As a die hard
& @
fan of 30 years I'm disgusted &done. I can't support them or spend $ on this league anymore.— TRV (@xTRVx)
https://twitter.com/xTRVx/status/269460676991414273' rel="external nofollow">

@
US economy is a lot worse then it was 7 years ago. The average fan cant afford to go to a game, they will spend $ elsewhere— Tristateconcerts.com (@tristateconcert)
https://twitter.com/tristateconcert/status/269460638215061504' rel="external nofollow">

@
I'm gonna watch my Sens, but there is NO WAY I'm paying for anything. Ever. No jerseys. No hats. No NHL Network. Nothing.— Eamon O'Flynn (@EamonOFlynn)
https://twitter.com/EamonOFlynn/status/269460442664009728' rel="external nofollow">

@
It's also more frustrating this time because with social media we are constantly reminded. Permanent damage has been done.— Jim Patrick (@jjfitz77)
https://twitter.com/jjfitz77/status/269460141752082433' rel="external nofollow">

@
Already canceled 2 of 4 @
seats, questioning the other 2 and really has me thinking on how long I may stay away— Michael Mazal (@Michael99420)
https://twitter.com/Michael99420/status/269459980179107840' rel="external nofollow">

@
they are alienating the hardcore fans this time. We accepted it last time. Not again.— Dudgee (@Dudgee)
https://twitter.com/Dudgee/status/269459865662021632' rel="external nofollow">

@
lockout is like pausing a videogame w/o saving, sooner or later the power will go out and you have to start over— Rockford White(@RockfordWhite)
https://twitter.com/RockfordWhite/status/269459848285003776' rel="external nofollow">

@
35 years of being an NHL fan, in several markets, from Dionne to Stamkos. I may very well not come back after this.— Peter Gilson (@Gilsonhockey)
https://twitter.com/Gilsonhockey/status/269459847324524544' rel="external nofollow">

@
so true. I'm a young fan, grew to love the Blackhawks in 08/09. Can't promise I'll come back w/ same enthusiasm.— Benjamin Garmoe (@bengarmoe)
https://twitter.com/bengarmoe/status/269459817498808321' rel="external nofollow">

@
devil season ticket holder since 93. im done with the nhl. ill just go watch local youth hockey.— Phil Osophy (@Phillip_Osophy)
https://twitter.com/Phillip_Osophy/status/269459812855709697' rel="external nofollow">

@
Full season lockout = lose me as a fan.— Brian Georgievski (@brimau5)
https://twitter.com/brimau5/status/269459700410634243' rel="external nofollow">

@
I'm a Blackhawks fan in DC. I'm going to Chicago in two weeks and will be buying zero NHL merchandise. I have self-respect.— RollingDoughnut (@RollingDoughnut)
https://twitter.com/RollingDoughnut/status/269459633280806912' rel="external nofollow">

@
last time I couldn't wait to come back. This time ill come back, but with a newfound resentment for the league and players.— Benjamin(@BENT0B0X)
https://twitter.com/BENT0B0X/status/269459571637108736' rel="external nofollow">

@
The holidays keep people busy thru new years and then there is superbowl and spring training. love hockey but wont miss it— Jaclyn Renee (@dubnoxious)

I understand the complexities of this negotiation. And I get both sides’ positions. But there also has to be a reality check. This league cannot afford another year without hockey. But the players better know the league will in fact do it again unless there's a deal owners can live with. The long-term damage from this lockout is already bad enough. It’s time for a true, meaningful negotiation. Stop the bleeding.

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NHLPA wants to resume CBA negotiations next week:

NHLPA special counsel Steve Fehr and NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly talked briefly today, but they didn’t schedule a new meeting. All the same, the union hopes to resume negotiations next week, according to RDS’ Renaud Lavoie.

That’s in contrast to NHL commissioner Gary Bettman recently proposed two-week moratorium on CBA talks.

If the NHLPA gets its way and talks resume soon, there will still be a slim chance for a Dec. 1 season opener. The next round of cancelations aren’t expected until mid-week. At the same time, the two sides might still have a massive gap to close.

Based on the NHL’s charts, the latest NHLPA proposal would potentially provided the players with over $1 billion more than a 50/50 split over five seasons.

The main reason for that is because the union is seeking a guaranteed player share for 2012-13 that doesn’t factor in the lockout. For now, the union wants to focus on the overall structure of the deal before tackling the issue of revenues lost due to the lockout.

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/16/nhlpa-wants-to-resume-cba-negotiations-next-week/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

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Vitriol overtakes hope as NHL labour talks take a vacation

Anger is the only word that describes the state of the NHL right now.

The players are angry NHL commissioner Gary Bettman’s proposal for reviving the dead labour negotiations was a two-week vacation. The owners and a lot of their general managers are angry at NHL Players’ Association executive director Donald Fehr, whom they accuse of not wanting a new collective agreement. Both men were the subjects of some nasty name-calling on Friday, as word of Bettman’s suggestion spread.

And the fans are angry with both sides, taking to social media, web sites and the radio call-in shows to say, essentially, “a pox on both their houses.”

Only Toronto Maple Leafs defenceman John-Michael Liles was able to add a little humour, although he was just as unhappy as his colleagues that Bettman wanted to take a break from even trying to negotiate.

“No, Gary, you can’t have [two weeks] off to go to Hawaii and bodysurf,” Liles posted on his Twitter account Friday afternoon.

A tweet from Edmonton Oilers defenceman Ryan Whitney conveyed more of the anger many players were feeling: “So the NHL wants to take a [two-week] break from negotiating. Not even just [one], let’s take [two]. Makes sense. What’s the rush? ... WTF?!”

There was some contact between the sides Friday, as NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly and NHLPA special counsel Steve Fehr had a brief telephone conversation. But no meetings are scheduled and Friday night marked one week since the owners and players broke off their last lengthy bargaining session with an exchange of harsh words.

Daly, who said Thursday he was more discouraged with the state of the labour dispute than at any other point, was not as bleak Friday. Then again, it was only by comparison, as the most positive thing he could say was that personal rancour had not taken over among the negotiators.

“I think what you have seen is disappointment with where we find ourselves in the process,” Daly said. “I don’t think it’s a case of personal animosity.”

Conversations with people on both sides of this impasse Friday showed the mood to be so bleak as to be reminiscent of the many low points of the 2004-05 lockout, when the entire season was lost. Where there were always optimists on both sides until this week, now there are many who think this season could be lost as well.

Even though Bettman did not officially cancel the 2004-05 season until Feb. 16, 2005, the owners and GMs consulted think it could happen sooner this time. Those who hoped a full 82-game season could be squeezed out of a late November start are now fretting even a season of 68 games or fewer is in jeopardy.

What also emerged from both sides were questions about how much support Fehr and Bettman actually have from their constituencies. However, no players or owners expressed doubt about their own leadership.

Indeed, Bettman angered several owners with his last offer. But the owners, who are prevented from speaking publicly by a gag order imposed by the commissioner, remain behind him. Bettman was told by some owners that his offer, which was rejected by the players, of a 50-50 split of league revenue with the owners putting at least $215-million (all currency U.S.) toward eventually paying existing player contracts in full, went too far.

Two owners described that offer as Bettman’s best and final shot at making a deal. They say they need all of the things demanded in that deal, from five-year limits on contracts (one argument is owners cannot insure player contracts for more than five years) to limiting the yearly salary increases to raising the age of free agency in addition to cutting the players’ share of NHL revenue to 50 per cent from 57.

One owner said he is willing to risk cancelling the season rather than sign what he considers a bad collective agreement. He is well aware he is losing fans every day, the owner said, but simply cannot agree to a deal he thinks would make it impossible for him to turn a profit.

At this point, there is no indication when talks will resume, hence the gloom around the league. Donald Fehr told Hockey Night In Canada Radio his response to Bettman’s suggestion of a two-week break was, “I didn’t think that was a good idea.” He also said, “we’ve been prepared to meet every day.”

However, Fehr also rejected the notion put forward by the owners, that they have made lots of concessions thus far and the players are being unreasonable.

“The only way the owners have made a concession is if you treat seriously their notion we made a first proposal which was horrible, terrible and miserable,” Fehr said, “and our second proposal was only horrible and terrible so we moved in your direction.”

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Well, we're just a regular ol' family that loves hockey. We don't care much for all the politics of late, including holding the fans hostage while a bunch of people with too much money already don't know the definition of compromise. It's becoming blindingly obvious to us that the sport itself is no longer what matters, it's money. We already don't watch NFL or NBA or MLB because the sports have been bought out by greed. We were innocent in thinking hockey was different.

We've pretty much written off this season (which is unfortunate as we have REALLY been looking forward to the start of the season since summer). As a family, we're lost. Sure, we find other things to fill our nights, but huddling around the TV to follow the Canucks and Sharks and Ducks isn't one of them. We miss them. BUT, we decided to cut our losses and not support the decisions of the greedy. While we're just a grain of sand on a mile long beach, our dollars we normally spend on NHL Center Ice package is going elsewhere this year. We cancelled our CI and if (or when) this CBA gets solved, we'll just catch whatever we can on whatever channels we already get. We won't be buying any NHL goodies this year either, or going to any Ducks/Canucks games (the only times we get to see the Canucks in person is when then come down to Anaheim).

It's just sad it has to come to this.

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Guest Gumballthechewy

While we're just a grain of sand on a mile long beach, our dollars we normally spend on NHL Center Ice package is going elsewhere this year. We cancelled our CI and if (or when) this CBA gets solved, we'll just catch whatever we can on whatever channels we already get. We won't be buying any NHL goodies this year either, or going to any Ducks/Canucks games (the only times we get to see the Canucks in person is when then come down to Anaheim).

It's just sad it has to come to this.

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Ian White calls Bettman an idiot and goes on to say .... It only takes 7 owners to have something pass...it's not democratic. LOL what a moron.

In reality It's 8 owners votes to turn down a deal, not 7 votes to have something pass.

Great example of an uneducated hockey player, no wonder half these guy couldn't understand the concept of escrow when they started seeing escrow deductions on their paychecks after last lockout. LOL He doesn't even know this simple fact even I know as a fan who's not losing millions due to this lockout.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl-lockout/2012/11/06/hawks_doves_cba_bargaining_lockout/

When it comes to dissent on the owners' side, Bettman only requires the support of eight teams to veto any proposal from the NHLPA

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Ian White calls Bettman an idiot and goes on to say .... It only takes 7 owners to have something pass...it's not democratic. LOL what a moron.

In reality It's 8 owners votes to turn down a deal, not 7 votes to have something pass.

Great example of an uneducated hockey player, no wonder half these guy couldn't understand the concept of escrow when they started seeing escrow deductions on their paychecks after last lockout. LOL He doesn't even know this simple fact even I know as a fan who's not losing millions due to this lockout.

26 second mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-068Z9eo1w

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I'm not pro owner. I'm pro me.

In my view if owners get a good deal NHL will be a healthy league in the future. If owners make more money I will benefit by being able to enjoy a stable league with some teams in nontraditional but large American markets. Most importantly as a Canadian i'll be able to enjoy teams in Edmonton, Winnipeg and Ottawa and hopeful Hamilton and Quebec in the future.

I want to see a profitable league. I'd like to see Coyotes stay in PHX while teams like Winnipeg and Edmonton become contenders. As it is the Jets will be very hard pressed to compete in payroll.

I am also old enough to remember when the CAD was worth .65 cents and Canucks were one of the Canadian teams on the NHL's welfare program. This was not a long time ago, only a few years.

Edit. And Of course I think most players are uneducated jocks who barely have high school education. Completely no clue even about the simple and basic parts of CBA. I think 50-50 Should be enough for them.

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I'm not pro owner. I'm pro me.

In my view if owners get a good deal NHL will be a healthy league in the future. If owners make money or more money then they make now I will benefit by being able to enjoy a stable league with some teams in nontraditional but large American markets and most importantly teams in Edmonton, Winnipeg and Ottawa and hopeful Hamilton and Quebec in the future.

I want to see a profitable league. I'd like to see Coyotes stay in PHX and Winnipeg and Edmonton to become contenders. As it is the Jets will be very hard pressed to compete in payroll.

I am also old enough to remember when the CAD was worth .65 cents and Canucks were one of the Canadian teams on the NHL's welfare program. And this was not a long time ago, only a few years.

Edit. And Of course I think most players are uneducated jocks who barely have high school education. Completely no clue even about the simple and basic parts of CBA. I think 50-50 Should be enough for them.

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I might not share your viewpoint WHL, but I do appreciate that you participate in the discussion, answer questions lucidly, and do it without being a condescending umbrella.

edit - umbrella ... interesting choice of word replacement. I'm gonna leave it as is for the surrealism.

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As to the two week hiatus Bettman proposed ... I'm at a loss, really. I can't think of why he would do it. Or even suggest it. It's a terrible PR move, a worthless negotiation tactic. Even Daly seems confused by it. Oh to be a fly on the wall of the Owners' underground bunker right now.

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Here's the think about PHX Kass. NBC just signed a $2 billion deal with the NHL. Something that the NHL wanted desperately over the past several years.

NBC did not sign this deal to show Winnipeg vs Quebec games. If the NHL wants to be considered a premiere sports league in N.A. they must have teams in major US markets. PHX is a major US market, this is why the NHL has put so much money and time trying to save the Coyotes.

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Here's the think about PHX Kass. NBC just signed a $2 billion deal with the NHL. Something that the NHL wanted desperately over the past several years.

NBC did not sign this deal to show Winnipeg vs Quebec games. If the NHL wants to be considered a premiere sports league in N.A. they must have teams in major US markets. PHX is a major US market, this is why the NHL has put so much money and time trying to save the Coyotes.

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NBC did not sign this deal to show Winnipeg vs Quebec games. If the NHL wants to be considered a premiere sports league in N.A. they must have teams in major US markets. PHX is a major US market, this is why the NHL has put so much money and time trying to save the Coyotes.

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no, not necessarily. It's a complicated subject, and I don't know what goes on behind the scenes at a major network. I feel like an important component for them is covering as much of the map geographically as possible, in major markets, regardless of local interest. Advertising takes this into consideration, plus there's the added incentive of pleasing other teams in the area, developing rivalries, etc. It's the kind of thing I'd love for someone more qualified to weigh in on, but I'm not sure we have anyone like that on the boards.

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Maybe. NBC only scheduled 4 Coyotes games for the season - 3 road games, all on Tuesday nights, and 1 Saturday home game against the Sharks.

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Hardly, if anything it proves my point. 4 Nationally televised games for PHX and ZERO for Canucks, Oilers, Flames, Sens and Jets.

Anaheim Ducks: 1 (6)

Boston Bruins: 17 (14)

Buffalo Sabres:: 15 (11)

Calgary Flames: Zero (Zero)

Carolina Hurricanes: 1 (4)

Chicago Blackhawks: 14 (11)

Colorado Avalanche: 6 (9)

Columbus Blue Jackets: 1 (2)

Dallas Stars: 8 (7)

Detroit Red Wings: 17 (14)

Edmonton Oilers: Zero (Zero)

Florida Panthers: 3 (1)

Los Angeles Kings: 9 (6)

Minnesota Wild: 10 (9)

Montreal Canadiens: 5 (6)

Nashville Predators: 3 (2)

New Jersey Devils: 8 (7)

New York Islanders: 1 (1)

New York Rangers: 13 (16)

Ottawa Senators: Zero (Zero)

Philadelphia Flyers: 13 (11)

Phoenix Coyotes: 4 (4)

Pittsburgh Penguins: 17 (14)

San Jose Sharks: 7 (5)

St. Louis Blues: 12 (8)

Tampa Bay Lightning: 7 (11)

Toronto Maple Leafs: 4 (2)

Vancouver Canucks: Zero (2)

Washington Capitals: 12 (14)

Winnipeg Jets: Zero (1)

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