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-Vintage Canuck-

*Official* CBA Negotiations and Lockout Thread

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Now, I want to make one thing clear - the organization that made $117.4 million in profit between 1998 and 2012 is neither the Florida Panthers nor their parent company, Sunrise Sports & Entertainment. The organization that made those profits is the aptly named Arena Operating Company, which is contracted by the city to run the BankAtlantic Center.

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To DB simply disagreeing with him is taken as a personal attack. This is how the end starts for him though every other time he's been here.

If the owners had all the power there would be hockey right now...

Pro owner or pro player it doesn't really matter...the bottom line is both sides have gotten the other to move from their original positions and that will continue to do so until it is resolved. Neither side is going to win because neither side is going to get what they want. The reason for that is because both sides hold power. This is a tug of war and both sides get a piece of the rope.

All this NHLPA has no power garbage is just that...garbage. It's just as stupid as all the NHL owners are greedy and evil crap.

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"Almost all of the owners (/owning entities) of NHL teams have large stakes in other businesses. By uniting a large group of NHL fans to start a boycott of at least some of these businesses, right now, we may be able to influence the owners in some way. At the very least, we can let them know that their actions are affecting us in a negative way, so we have the ability and power to do the same to them.

Here is a list of NHL owners (from http://icehockey.wik...t_of_NHL_Owners), and other businesses that they have a large stake in. You may be surprised at some of the names - if not the sheer quantity:

Henry Samueli - Anaheim Ducks

Broadcom Corporation - Computer & Telecommunications Networking

Jeremy Jacobs - Boston Bruins

Chairman of Delaware North Companies (hospitality and food service company)

Terrence Pegula - Buffalo Sabres

Owns the AHL Rocester Americans.

N. Murray Edwards - Calgary Flames

Owns Canadian Natural Resources (oilsands development). Also owns Resorts of the Canadian Rockies, which owns Fernie Alpine Resort, Kimberley Alpine Resort, Nakiska, Stoneham Mountain Resort, and Mont-Sainte-Anne, Kicking Horse Resort.

Peter Karmanos - Carolina Hurricanes

Owns Compuware, large business software developer

Rocky Wirtz - Chicago Blackhawks

Rocky oversees Wirtz Corporation's commercial and residential real estate companies, wine distributor Wirtz Beverage Group, an insurance company and banks in Illinois and Florida. Wirtz is also the co-chairman of the Executive Committee of the United Center.

Stan Kroenke - Colorado Avalanche

Owns Kroenke Sports Enterprises, which in addition to the AVS, controls the Denver Nuggets (NBA), Colorado Rapids (MLS), Colorado Mammoth (NLL) and St. Louis Rams (NFL).

JMAC Inc. - Columbus Blue Jackets


Tom Gaglardi - Dallas Stars

Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer of Sandman Hotels, Inns & Suites and Moxie's Restaurants, LP. Also part owner of Kamloops Blazers.

Mike Ilitch - Detroit Red Wings

Also owns Little Cesars Pizza and the Detroit Tigers.

Rexall Sports (of Katz Group) - Edmonton Oilers

Owns over 1800 pharmacies in Canada, under the names: Rexall, Herbie's for Drug and Food, Meditrust Pharmacy, Pharma Plus, Super Drug Mart, and Dell Pharmacies.

Cliff Viner (& Stu Siegel?) - Florida Panthers

Cliff Viner is a general partner with AVM, LP a fixed income broker/dealer, and III Associates, a fixed income derivatives money management firm. Last I heard, Stu Siegel sold his shares in the team.

Philip Anschutz & Edward Roski Jr. - Los Angeles Kings

Philip Anschutz owns or has stakes in MLS teams LA Galaxy, Chicago Fire, Houston Dynamo, San Jose Earthquakes, and the NY/NJ Metro Stars; Los Angeles Lakers; Staples Center and O2 Arena; and the Home Depot Center. Ed Roski is also a part owner of the Lakers, and owns the Silverton Casino Lodge in Las Vegas.

Craig Leipold - Minnesota Wild

Leipold's companies own the Grand Ol' Opry in Nashville, and the Houston Aeros AHL team. They also manage the Xcel Energy Center and the Saint Paul RiverCentre.

Molson Family - Montreal Canadiens

Molson is a big invester in the NHL (for many teams), besides owning a cornerstone franchise. Their beers include Canadian, Coors, Ice, Golden, Export, Dry, XXX, Stock Ale, Rickard's, Pilsner, Carling, Keystone, Bohemian, and Calgary Export. Owns partial stakes in the Brazilian brands A Marca Bavaria and Kaiser. In Canada, has the marketing and selling rights for Corona, Heineken, and Miller brands.

Predators Holdings LLC - Nashville Predators

Owns and operates Bridgestone arena.

Jeffrey Vanderbeek - New Jersey Devils

Owns the Prudential Center (but maybe not for long!)

Charles Wang - New York Islanders

Owner of CA Technologies (systems software developer) and the Bridgport Sound Tigers AHL team.

James Dolan - New York Rangers

Also President and CEO of Cablevision Systems Corporation (only operates in NYC - unrelated to Cablevision Canada).

Eugene Melnyk - Ottawa Senators

He is the founder, and former chairman and CEO of Biovail Corporation (Parmaceuticals), which merged with merged with Valeant Pharmaceuticals International in 2010. Its major products include Cesamet (nabilone), Efudex, Mestinon, Diastat, and Ribavirin.

Comcast-Spectator - Philadelphia Flyers

Comcast is a major Internet/Cable/Phone provider in the US.

NHL - Phoenix Coyotes


Mario Lemieux & Ron Burkle - Pittsburgh Penguins

Ron Burkle has his fingers in a lot of pies. Some of the major ones are: 20.7% stake in Americold Realty Trust; major invester in Sean John clothing line; small stakes of Barnes & Noble and American Apparel. Significant stake in Relativity Media, which produced such films as Let Me In, Limitless, Machine Gun Preacher, Mirror Mirror, The Raven, and upcoming releases such as The House at the End of the Street, Movie 43, and Safe Haven.

Sports Capital Partners - St. Louis Blues

Owns Real Madrid! Also Real Salt Lake (MLS), Peoria Rivermen (AHL), Scottrade Center, Peabody Opera House, KALL700 Sports Radio, and Tupelo-Honey productions.

Sharks Entertainment Enterprises - San Jose Sharks

Owns the HP Pavillion and Worcester Sharks. Also a minority shareholder in the San Jose Earthquakes (MLS).

Jeff Vinik - Tampa Bay Lightning

Also owns the Tampa Bay Storm. Minority owner of the Boston Red Sox. Also on board of directors for Liverpool Football Club.

M.L.S.E - Toronto Maple Leafs

Also owns the Raptors, Marlies (AHL), Toronto FC (MLS), Air Canada Centre, Ricoh Coliseum, BMO Field, Mastercard Centre, and Real Sports.

Canucks Sports and Entertainment - Vancouver Canucks

Also owns Rogers Arena. But it is 100% owned by Aquilini Investment Group, which owns/operates: multi-storey residential developments in Vancouver including the King Edward Village, Richards Living tower, and Maynards Block; proponent of the proposed $2.6B Garibaldi at Squamish resort; half ownership of Halifax-based Pacrim Hospitality Services, which owns and manages 30 hotels across Canada, and all Pizza Hut locations in BC; creator and producer of Bassano Hard Soda.

Ted Leonsis - Washington Capitals

Also majority owner of majority owner of the Washington Wizards (NBA), Washington Mystics (WNBA) and the Verizon Center. Founder and Chairman of SnagFilms, which offers ad-supported documentaries. Vice chairman of Groupon and on the board of American Express.

True North Sports and Entertainment - Winnipeg Jets

Owns and operates the MTS Centre, and the St. John's Ice Caps (AHL).

Now, obviously every person will not be a direct consumer of these companies. However, I am going to make my own "boycott list". I encourage any of you to do the same.

So, if a lockout is declared on September 15th, I will begin a boycott of the following:

- All beers produced/distributed by Molson (no Heinekin or Corona)

- Rexall drugs (normally gets around $50/month from me)

- Moxies

- Little Cesars

- Pizza Hut (BC)

- Sandman Hotels

- All films produced by Relativity Media

- Premiership games with Liverpool or Real Madrid, merchandise for either team

- Will try to influence brother-in-law to boycott St. Louis Rams (he's a huge fan)

- Fernie Alpine Resort, Kimberley Alpine Resort, Nakiska, Stoneham Mountain Resort, and Kicking Horse Resort (I go to Kicking Horse every year)

- No events at Rogers Arena when I'm in Vancouver (I catch concerts here)

- Bassano Hard Soda (will tell everyone it's terrible)

Feel free to spread this by any means possible. I am going to start tweeting information/etc. using hashtag #fanlockout." from the thread BETTER KNOW A BOYCOTT by D-Money

I encourage people to copy/paste this in a Word file and print it out then post it on as many bulletin boards as possible. I also encourage people to post this on social media sites. Band-wagoners and fair-weather fans can have their apathy. Show that you care.

Edited by RWMc1, A minute ago.

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^^ What an incredible waste of time. You really want to stop drinking Molson beer and stop eating Pizza Hut because of the NHL lockout? Rediculous. Go for a walk or something, you are too consumed by this whole thing.

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CBC radio was just saying that Yzerman and Nieuwendyk are attending tonight's meetings.

edit - also Brian Burke (thought he was homeless but he must have hopped a freight train down to NYC)

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@RWMc1: That's already been posted I'm sure, no need to do so again - no matter how much you think it helps your slacktivism efforts.

EotM's point was that saying that the players have 0% power is just as untrue as saying 100% of owners are evil. That's not to say the players have all the power or there aren't some evil owners (relatively speaking), but nothing is so absolute in this world.

People's refusal to admit that (in it's simplist form that only one side can be right in this) is sometimes just out of hyperbole, sometimes out of laziness, and sometimes out of plain stupidity.

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Versteeg calls Bettman and Daly cancers. LOL. What a clown.

With negotiations for a new collective bargaining agreement between the National Hockey League and NHL Players' Association at a standstill, Florida Panthers forward Kris Versteeg joined the Bryan Hayes show on TSN Radio 1050 Toronto to voice his frustration with NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman and deputy commissioner Bill Daly.

"Obviously I'm really frustrated, It's not good," said Versteeg. "You do try to look at the best case scenarios moving forward once the CBA does get done and you gotta look for the cancers and you gotta cut out the cancer.

"I think when you look at Bill Daly and Bettman they've been polluting this game for far too long."

Versteeg went on to say that Daly and Bettman should be replaced once a new CBA is reached for the good of the fans.

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Canucks’ Schneider says he will consider playing in Switzerland more seriously:

Cory Schneider’s patience is starting to wear out.

The Vancouver Canucks goaltender said Monday he will look to play in Europe if the NHL lockout lasts much longer. Schneider plans to go home to the Boston area for American Thanksgiving and then explore his options in Switzerland, where he would be considered a domestic player because his grandfather was born there.

“It’ll be another week, so we’ll see if the talks have gone anywhere, and if not we’ll have to open the door to that possibility again,” he said Monday after skating with some of his teammates at the University of British Columbia.

Players have been locked out since the previous deal expired Sept. 15.

Schneider, who displaced Roberto Luongo as Vancouver’s starter in the Stanley Cup playoffs, said a couple of Swiss clubs have expressed interest, based on his dual citizenship.

Like most of the Canucks’ core players, he has waited to see how negotiations on a new collective bargaining agreement played out rather than head overseas. While some players, such as Daniel and Henrik Sedin, have chosen to stay in Vancouver because they have children in school and do not want to disrupt their routines, Schneider remained on the West Coast even though he had more flexibility.

But as the lockout period lengthens, the Marblehead, Mass., native is becoming more anxious to stay in top form by playing meaningful games rather than working out informally with his teammates.

“If the season’s cancelled, then it’s hugely important, because I’m at a point in my career where I can’t really sit around for 18 months and not play any games,” he said. “Just as an athlete and as a professional, you want to compete and do your job. If that’s the only available option, then I think you have to take it pretty seriously before (the collective bargaining agreement) gets fixed.”

Schneider, a member of the NHL Players Association’s bargaining committee, made the comments before league and union representatives were to meet in New York City later Monday. He was glad to see the discussions being held after the NHL had proposed a two-week moratorium on talks, but he was not overly optimistic that the latest negotiations would produce meaningful results.

Noting the final version of the deal won’t be much different than what’s been proposed thus far, he said progress must be made “before it’s too late” and a full NHL season is scrapped for the second time since 2004-05.

“It’s fun being around your teammates,” he said. “That’s what a lot of guys miss the most, being in the locker-room, being with your friends and teammates, and having a big group like we have here makes it easier to motivate yourself and push and get better. But at the same time, I think we’re all going a little mad doing these scrimmages and practices. We want to get back to competing.”

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Hows the NHLPA doing these days? Arent you glad they hired Fehr so that two years later they are locked out and RANTING childish insults at their employers ?

Aint life grand? The union must be so PLEASED at how well Fehr has handled Bettman and the owners. See how Fehr put them in their place !!!!!!

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on prime time with Bob McCown they were discussing how the nhl is using the lockout as a negotiating tactic which is starting to become a growing trend with Bettman and the Owners i for one love the fact the players seem like they aren't backing down and would love to see them stand up to this tactic and defeat it once and for all the league cannot run like this everytime the owners want more money or more restrictions on players they just shut the league down

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You're right, he was wrong is the "it only takes 8 to approve" statement. But my point is that the spirit of what he said is actually true. If there are only 7 or 8 owners vetoing everything except the deal they want, it's their approval that's needed to get anything passed.

Besides, if we called everyone who made a mistake a "moron" we'd all have hurt feelings. Remember your post just yesterday about the union assuming a 5% yearly growth as if that were so outrageous when that's actually the NHL's number?

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NHL asks NHLPA for formal proposal

The NHL and NHLPA resumed discussions Monday night, following which the league requested a formal proposal from the union.

The bargaining session -- the first formal face-to-face meeting between the two sides in over a week -- lasted less than two hours and covered key topics such as player contracting rights and core economics.

NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly said the league wants to see a proposal from the NHLPA on these topics, among others, and feels they haven't seen that yet in the negotiation process. He also indicated that the league would like to see the union back off from the $1.883 billion (plus 1.75 percent interest in Year 1) that the NHLPA proposed during the last round of negotiations.

We'd like to know where (the NHLPA is) on all the issues and we asked them to think about putting together a comprehensive proposal for us to consider.
-- NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly

"It's our position (that) we've made a couple comprehensive proposals in a row. We'd like to know where they are on all the issues and we asked them to think about putting together a comprehensive proposal for us to consider," Daly said.

NHLPA executive director Donald Fehr declined to address the details of the core economics discussion. Fehr said he'd go back to the NHLPA offices, consult with his membership on the evening's meeting, and confer with the league Tuesday morning.

Multiple sources confirmed that the two sides might not meet again until Wednesday. It is believed the union wants to take time to work on putting together a new proposal.

Fehr said the union addressed player contracting rights -- a contentious point in negotiations as both sides have dug in on the issue -- but to no avail.

"We had hoped to engage them in a discussion about the players contracting issues that are so important to the players," Fehr said. "At least tonight, they were unwilling to do that."

The league, however, views both the core economics -- such as the division of revenue -- and player contracting issues as linked. Daly said the league pushed the union on their stance on the economics and did not receive any clarity.

"We've never heard a full proposal from them. We've heard their proposal on economics -- they're still suggesting that they're moving in our direction on economics," Daly said. "Until we know exactly where they stand on economics ... we think it's all tied together. We'd like to hear it all together."

Daly affirmed the league's interest in seeing the NHLPA make an offer that is linked to revenue growth, as opposed to a guaranteed player amount. The NHLPA's last offer proposed $1.883 billion (equivalent to the amount they took in last year) with 1.75 percent interest in Year 1, although it is believed that the league would like to see the division of revenue accounted for on a pure percentage basis.

"If their proposal continues to be a guaranteed player amount, sitting here on Nov. 19, that's not a proposal that would ... ever be acceptable to us," Daly said. "If that happens to be where we are, we will be a long way apart."

Although no formal proposal was submitted, Fehr said the union did "flesh out" a component of their previous offer -- a provision to deal with the back-diving contracts the league is staunchly committed to eliminate.

Daly said the league "understood the concept when he raised it two weeks ago, and I think we understood it again tonight."

Several new faces joined the negotiations following a stalemate that lasted over a week. Eighteen players in total attended the meeting from the union's side, including veterans such as Vincent Lecavalier, Martin St. Louis and Brad Richards. Meanwhile, Maple Leafs general manager Brian Burke joined owners Jeremy Jacobs, Ted Leonsis and Murray Edwards on the ownership side.

The meeting comes following a tense week in which frustration seemed to spill over. Several players have been outspoken in wake of the recent impasse.

Florida's Kris Versteeg called both Daly and NHL commissioner Gary Bettman "cancers" while Detroit's Ian White called Bettman an "idiot."

Asked if such vitriol had a harmful effect on the process, Daly said neither he or Bettman "take those personally."

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The problem is not assuming a 5% growth. The problem is the union is attempting to negotiate a deal off that projected 5% increase not the actual revenue in the coming years.

The union wants 5% increase to be guaranteed, not the owners. The owners want a deal off the actual HRR, they don't want to guarantee anything.

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WHL, where are you getting your information? I couldn't find a single source that said the union is demanding a guaranteed 5% increase. Do you have a link?

The PA's last offer asked for a guaranteed $1.883 billion (what they got last year) plus 1.75% (not 5%!) yearly increase. (Source:

Furthermore, the NHL is STILL projecting growth for every year except a shortened 2012/13 season. In fact, it's only the shortened season the NHL has a problem with the projected 5% growth for. (The PA has said it wanted to get a standard deal in place and then work backwards to address the shortened season once it's known how long it will actually be. The NHL wants to negotiate using a shortened first year, even though the actual length is still unknown, to force the players to eat their lost revenue resulting from the owners' lockout.)

To show the PA how much revenue might be lost due to the lockout, the NHL created 4 separate models based on various projected revenue loses for shortened 2012/13 season.

(Source: http://communities.s...FullThread=true)

So, even after assuming significant drops in revenue for the shortened season the NHL is still projecting 5% yearly revenue growth. So, that's still their number.

So, your point is that the PA is showing its willingness to negotiate?

I just wonder when the owners will start showing theirs.

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Excellent link you provided poetica. According to this the PA share would be between 64.4% and 70.3% next year and it never gets to 50-50.

Charts obtained by Star Tribune show how far apart NHL believes it is from NHLPA

  • Blog Post by: Michael Russo

  • November 16, 2012 - 6:59 PM


Over the past few days, I have talked to a handful of players who have indicated how unfair it is that the NHL Players’ Association has essentially agreed to a 50/50 split, yet now the NHL was moving the goalposts and won’t negotiate the contractual changes the league is seeking.

I made some calls to see if the former was true because I had been given a different impression – that the NHLPA doesn't get to 50/50 over the course of its proposal, especially when one considers the potential loss of revenue this year due to the lockout after last year’s record $3.303 billion.

I have obtained a series of charts that the NHL presented the NHLPA based off the union’s most recent economic proposal (see below). If you look at the NHL's numbers, you can see why the league says the NHL and NHLPA aren't as close on a core economic model as Executive Director Donald Fehr indicated last Friday night during a news conference.

Last Friday before talks between the NHL and NHLPA broke off, the NHL prepared and provided the union a series of charts to demonstrate what it felt the existing economic proposal from the NHLPA would mean based on the league’s current situation and the damage already done to the business due to the lockout.

The NHL used four different assumptions in terms of lost hockey related revenue (HRR) this year, the most conservative being 10% off of last year’s $3.303 billion -- but also 12.5% down, 15% down and 17.5% down. Given where the NHL is, and with more cancelations coming up early next week, the NHL actually feels a more realistic view at this point is 25% down.

In any event, the NHL assumed that in Year 2, it would recover to 2011-12 HRR levels plus 2.5%. In Years 3, 4 and 5, the NHL assumed 5% growth year-over-year.

Using those four assumptions, and what the NHL says is the union’s “guaranteed” players share dollars of $1.916 billion in Year 1 and growing by 1.75% in every year, the NHL demonstrated that the applicable players’ shares over the five years of the union’s proposal ranges anywhere from a low of 64.4% to a high of 70.3% in Year 1, and falls gradually to 52.4% by the last year of the deal the players are proposing.

So regardless of loss assumptions, the NHLPA never gets to 50/50 over the course of its proposal, according to the NHL charts.


“The issue of how you deal with damage from the lockout is a tough one, particularly since it is impossible to know the extent of the damage," NHLPA Special Counsel Steve Fehr said in an email. "What we have suggested to the owners several times is that we put aside that issue for the moment and concentrate upon the overall structure of the deal. If we do that, based upon the last proposals from each side, we think the parties are much closer than they have ever been on the economics. If we could bridge that gap, then we could come back quickly to the lockout damage issue. For whatever reason, the owners have declined to do that, and seem to be intent on portraying the parties as further apart than we think we are.”


The NHLPA has previously indicated the players shouldn’t be responsible for the damage of starting this lockout. That may be fair.

Regardless though, what all these numbers prove at the very least is that the longer this lockout goes, the harder the math equation will be to solve. Damage to league revenue becomes more and more severe with each passing day. That complicates absolutely everything, which is why an end to the lockout just doesn't seem in sight.

Under the NHL’s most recent proposal, the league wishes to go immediately from a 57/43 split in favor of the players to 50/50. Had there been a normal season and year-to-year growth of 5%, 50/50 would have been $149 million less last year’s $1.883 billion player share in 2012-13 and another $62 million less than $1.883 billion in 2013-14. The league says it would “make whole” that money by reimbursing the players in two deferred, lump-sum payments, plus 2% interest. Had there been a normal season and year-to-year growth of 5%, there would be no shortfall in 2014-15 and essentially the league says the two sides would be caught up.

The NHLPA has made clear that this math does not honor in full every contract mutually agreed to with owners and thus is unacceptable.

Here are the charts:



GROWTH FACTOR -10.0% 13.9% 5.0% 5.0% 5.0% 2011-12 12-13 13-14 14-15 15-16 16-17 HRR 3,303B 2,973 3,386 3,555 3,733 3,919 APPLICABLE PCT. 57.0% 64.4% 57.6% 55.8% 54.1% 52.4% PLAYERS' SHARE 1,883 1,916 1,949 1,983 2,018 2,053 NHL at 50% 1,486 1,693 1,777 1,866 1,960 Make-Whole 149M 62 ---- ---- ---- 1,635 1,755 1,777 1,866 1,960 Difference 280 194 206 152 94 Total

926M Players' Share VOY % Inc. 1.75% 1.75% 1.75% 1.75% 1.75%


GROWTH FACTOR -12.5% 17.1% 5.0% 5.0% 5.0% 2011-12 12-13 13-14 14-15 15-16 16-17 HRR 3,303B 2,890 3,386 3,555 3,733 3,919 APPLICABLE PCT. 57.0% 66.3% 57.6% 55.8% 54.1% 52.4% PLAYERS' SHARE 1,883 1,916 1,949 1,983 2,018 2,053 NHL at 50% 1,445 1,693 1,777 1,866 1,960 Make-Whole 149M 62 ---- ---- ---- 1,594 1,755 1,777 1,866 1,960 Difference 322 194 206 152 94 Total

967M Players' Share VOY % Inc. 1.75% 1.75% 1.75% 1.75% 1.75%


GROWTH FACTOR -15.0% 20.6% 5.0% 5.0% 5.0% 2011-12 12-13 13-14 14-15 15-16 16-17 HRR 3,303B 2,808 3,386 3,555 3,733 3,919 APPLICABLE PCT. 57.0% 68.2% 57.6% 55.8% 54.1% 52.4% PLAYERS' SHARE 1,883 1,916 1,949 1,983 2,018 2,053 NHL at 50% 1,404B 1,693 1,777 1,866 1,960 Make-Whole 149M 62 ---- ---- ---- 1,553 1,755 1,777 1,866 1,960 Difference 363M 194 206 152 94 Total

1,009B Players' Share VOY % Inc. 1.75% 1.75% 1.75% 1.75% 1.75%


GROWTH FACTOR -17.5% 24.2% 5.0% 5.0% 5.0% 2011-12 12-13 13-14 14-15 15-16 16-17 HRR 3,303B 2,725 3,386 3,555 3,733 3,919 APPLICABLE PCT. 57.0% 70.3% 57.6% 55.8% 54.1% 52.4% PLAYERS' SHARE 1,883 1,916 1,949 1,983 2,018 2,053 NHL at 50% 1,362 1,693 1,777 1,866 1,960 Make-Whole 149M 62 ---- ---- ---- 1,511 1,755 1,777 1,866 1,960 Difference 404 194 206 152 94 Total

1,050B Players' Share VOY % Inc. 1.75% 1.75% 1.75% 1.75% 1.75%


Where do we stand now? Not firm ground.


After Donald Fehr reportedly told NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman he didn't know how to proceed from here, Bettman suggested taking a two-week break from negotiations.

In an email to the Star Tribune last night, Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly said: "I find it incredible that the Union is suggesting that we are somehow "close" to a deal. They have utterly refused to negotiate for months. They have made essentially one proposal -- five times. They continue to request a "guaranteed" Players Share as part of the next agreement and we repeatedly tell them maybe they should get a reality check. And in the mean time, maybe they can make their position clear to us on 50-50, on the make-whole and on Player Contracting issues."

In a statement, NHLPA special counsel Steve Fehr said, "Of course everyone on the players' side wants to reach an agreement. The players have offered the owners concessions worth about a billion dollars. What exactly have the owners offered the players? We believe that it is more likely that we will make progress if we meet than if we don't. So we are ready to meet. If indeed they do not want to meet, it will be at least the third time in the last three months that they have shut down the dialogue, saying they will not meet unless the players meet their preconditions. What does that tell you about their interest in resolving this?"

Daly and Steve Fehr did talk today. No meetings are planned.

Talks broke off Sunday after a 90-minute meeting in New York. It followed four days of meetings last week that ended poorly Friday during a short meeting and heated exchange between a few players and owners.


Games have been canceled until Nov. 30, but more games will be scrapped next week. Players missed their third paycheck Thursday.

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