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*Official* CBA Negotiations and Lockout Thread

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Listening to Dan Russell Sports Talk. Been listening to him for a couple of decades now. Most callers to his show are mature/older hockey fans. Perhaps 30 or 35 yrs to seniors.

Anyways, most callers are clearly pro owners now. Fehr is taking heat. Russell is siding with Fehr but clearly his listeners including me are not on the same page.

Great show btw. Haven't listened to him as much lately but for about 20 years it was my bed time radio. Longest running sports show in the country.

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I think everything has gone according to Bettman's playbook up until today. He always planned on giving nothing to the players until Dec 1 and counted on them compromising right up until then. That way he begins negotiating on Dec 1 against a player position that is far closer to their own, allowing them to give less in the end.

They knew when the players started missing paycheques, this would cause them to compromise. They also know that in many markets the NHL doesn't make very much money in October and November as compared to the later months and certainly the playoffs. In short, they lose less than the players by forgoing the first 2 months. The players miss a third of their salary, but the owners only miss a fifth or sixth of their revenue.

They figured once Dec 1 rolled around, the players would be ripe for compromise and would be anxious to deal.

What happened here is that Fehr slowed down the process, knowing that we are entering waters that the owners do not care to be in (missing games deep into December and January). He now has the NHL in a more precarious position, much like the players were in for the last 3 months.

It is now Fehr's turn to grind the NHL and see what HE can get from THEM. This was not a part of Bettman's playbook and now he is extremely unhappy.

IMHO

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^^^ Totally. Bettman is frazzled, he's shaken.

Keep in mind, based off of his last years salary, he has also forfeited approximately 2+ million dollars if the claims he is not getting paid are true.

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Manipulator is a great word for this guy. I don't know how ppl have not been able to see this guy for what he is for the past three months. Finally he's been exposed. The whole hockey community is turning on him, even some players questioned him why they didn't vote on the latest proposal

From all reports, things were progressing well until PA came back and said we want Fehr back in the room. This egomaniac couldn't stand the fact the 2 sides were close to an agreement. He demanded to be let back in the room and promptly destroyed everything the two sides had accomplished over the week.

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Woah, woah, woah.

The players demanded Fehr be let back in the room not he himself.

Everything was going well until the owners refused to allow the PAs executive director be a part of the process. You blame Fehr for the actions of the owners? Wow.

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This is literally the smartest thing I've read on CDC. I would give you a hundred upvotes if I could. Truly a big thought in the company of small minds.

Bettman's face is all the indication you need to see that he has failed, that he is now out of control and he never saw it coming. He just spent time saying how close they were to the BOG and gave Fehr the chance to make him look like a fool to his own employers. Don Cherry's idea of "doves" and "hawks" amongst the owners was a good analogy. However Fehr just gave them a common target. Doves will say Bettman's hardline approach which they bit their tongues about didn't work and that he's not the man to make a deal. Hawks have shown that they care about dollars, not people, and those dollars are now evaporating because they listened to Bettman's lockout plan.

Argue that some owners are reasonable, or argue some are cutthroat. It doesn't matter in what proportions they exist, the outcome is the same. Fehr's earning his paycheck.

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I completely disagree with the notion that Bettman is dazzled or cornered etc... He's the one who took the offer off the table. He's the one who's been in control and keeps control by taking offer off the table. What this does is puts pressure on Fehr. Some players are already asking him why there was no vote.

While I agree with parts of JAH's post, some of it is not factually correct. Players don't lose 1/3 of money and owners lose 1/5 or 1/6 of revenue. This is not how it works.

If there is a shortened season players share and owners share will still be divided as per new CBA. They will both have a smaller pie to share. But they will still get pro rated amount of what they would get with full season.

It is true revenues in Oct and Nov are lower than later months. So the overall revenue is less affected if those 2 months are canceled. But since both sides' share of revenue is tied to HRR this affects both sides equally. When they start work again all the revenue goes into one pot and gets divided as per CBA, (50-50 plus make whole etc.) exactly as it would be with full season.

I think the players will ask to re start negotiations. I don't see owners giving much more. In 3 or 4 weeks if there is no deal the season will be canceled. Not something players want.

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Woah, woah, woah.

The players demanded Fehr be let back in the room not he himself.

Everything was going well until the owners refused to allow the PAs executive director be a part of the process. You blame Fehr for the actions of the owners? Wow.

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Now, I suppose if everything goes perfectly according to Fehr's playbook, Bettman will break some time this weekend because he is afraid of losing his job, and compromise to the NHLPA's proposal to save the season.

If Bettman breaks and this happens, Fehr will be a hero for the players, and no longer the villain in the eyes of the fans - since the season was saved regardless.

But if this move is what costs the season, I don't know. I just think that it was a reasonable offer from the NHL, and if the NHLPA signs for anything less than the offer they had today, and the season ends up being cancelled, which I think is going to happen (Bettman won't bend IMO) as a result of Fehr overmanipulating things, Fehr deserves to have the finger pointed at him.

Am I the only one who thinks that Bettman has majority of the owners' behind his back now after this? I think his job security is higher now if anything ... I don't see the owners firing him any time soon.

And unless NHL decides to give the PA a second chance at the deal that they just took off the table, I see the PA signing for a much worse deal AND have the season be cancelled ...

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This wasn't Bettman's call Dasein. This was the call of owners who were in the room negotiating. Bettman made it clear he was under pressure for some time to take make whole off the table but he went against these owners in attempt to get a deal done. Bettman is in power and in control because his owners are more hawkish then him. Hence the offer off the table. His owners are behind him so his job is not on the line. Bettman is more of a dove than most owners.

Now some of the "dove" owners who wanted a deal done are the ones who instructed Bettman to pull the offer.

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Just like i said a while back Fehr will stop at nothing to screw the NHL owners and the players are dumb to the fact he is brainwashing them to think they are hard done by.

Fehr, Toews and a few spoiled weasels are leading the charge and some decent players in that union with some sense has got to step up and make a deal.

Anyone who sides on the players side in this battle must be a fool.

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These guys are such drama queens.

This should have been settled in the summer.

Players agree to go to 50-50

Owner agree to honor contracts

Players agree to CBA length

Owners agree to Contract Length

Players agree to UFA age

Owners agree to Entry level length

and on and on......

But no, they wanted to win the PR battle instead. This league is such a joke.

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I completely disagree with the notion that Bettman is dazzled or cornered etc... He's the one who took the offer off the table. He's the one who's been in control and keeps control by taking offer off the table. What this does is puts pressure on Fehr. Some players are already asking him why there was no vote.

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This isn't the first time that the NHL has made a 'take it or leave it' offer, and it is not the first time Bettman has said that its off the table and won't be re-introduced in the future. However, each 'take it or leave it' offer has been better than the last.

Also, the notion that you can pull something like percentage of HRR or term length off the table is a farce. The only thing off the table to this point is a full season. Once something is offered, it becomes the starting point the next time. The other side knows you are willing to give AT LEAST that, and won't settle for less than that unless you go 'scorched earth' and completely break them. Things that are uncontrollable, like the number of games in a season (or a season at all) are really the only things the NHL can legitimately pull off the table.

What these kinds of comments do is unify, annoy, and stiffen the spines of the players. It's more 'tantrum' than 'business'. If it was an ok deal today, it's an ok deal tomorrow. It's so obviously a purely punishing tactic that it undermines the trust built to this point and makes the NHL, and particularly Bettman, look unprofessional and childish.

What Fehr did was what he is supposed to do - negotiate points that are not agreed upon. When Bettman pulls this 'take it or leave it' and 'its off the table' routine, it tells the players that he is not willing to really negotiate, and that he will take his ball and go home unexpectedly and without warning. How can you really negotiate in good faith with someone like that? I believe what Bettman is trying to do is make the PA nervous the next time they get an offer that is close to what they would accept. He's planting in their mind the notion that the PA must bridge that final gap, and if they don't, the NHL will bail on the while process.

The NHL likes to come at this with absolutes. Like Daly's 'this is the hill we will die on'. Really Bill? So you'd flush a season for a one year difference in contract length? Two seasons? 5? Using absolute terms like this is, again, childish and unprofessional and in the end it's not really true.

IMHO, Fehr is more in control now than he has been to this point. I believe he has perhaps a couple of weeks to a month at the very most to hammer out a deal. Beyond that, the season is gone.

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Never have i seen the game i love become so tarnished.

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The NHLPA basically gave the NHL a taste of their own medicine today. That's why Gary and Bill looked so angry, they finally took a hit. The NHL has been taking and taking. So this time the PA just said thank you and took the $100M. The NHL expect a major concession in return when they give something.

Inevitably cooler heads will prevail. Players need to come together and vote on the contract length/cba length.

The way they made it look on TV, it was like the world was about to end. But they are so close to a deal and just got frustrated, sometimes you just need to take a step back.

3 year difference on contract term

2 year difference on CBA length

Too bad we have to lose another week or two for them to agree on that as well.

At least this is good news for Hockey Canada!

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Does anyone know what percentage of players currently have signed contracts that are longer than 5 years? I would think that it is star players and less than 5% of the league...

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