-Vintage Canuck- Posted December 11, 2012 Author Share Posted December 11, 2012 @JSportsnet There has been a tentative agreement to resume talks between the NHL and NHLPA on Wednesday. Location is TBA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thad Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Lol bill "the hill" daly Maybe he should stop comparing himself to real heroes, who have been on a hill and struggled to extract a fallen brother under heavy enemy fire and failed.. And start working to put the game back on ice so the courageous soldiers have hockey to watch when they return home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I think this is important to them for a few reasons.1 - By limiting the contracts to 5 years, it pretty much eliminates the possibility further of a back-diving contract. Yes, this issue is addressed with the 5% rule, but it is addressed further with the max 5 year rule. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizmo2337 Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 After all the talk of the NHL wanting term limits as well as a variance year to year in order to prevent contracts evading cap hits and other things, I wanted to see just how much a team might maximize their cap effectiveness under different term limits and the proposed 5% max variance per year. I set up a spreadsheet to see what it looked like. You can see there are examples for $14M, $10M, $8M and $4M starting salaries, spread out from year one to a possible year twelve. The cap hit starting for a 5 year term and up is also included. I did the $14M and 12 year max as a good comparison to the Weber deal. The real life structure has a $7.857M cap hit thanks to the final years at such low salaries. A similar deal ($14M starting salary, 12 year term) under the projected rules of a new CBA would result in a $10.725M cap hit, nearly $3M higher. For Weber to have had a similar cap hit on a 12 year term, he would have only been able to start at about a $10M salary. And under the NHL's most recently proposed term limits of 5 and 7 years that would increase his cap hit to just over $9M (assuming Philly would have been only able to offer 5 year term in an offer sheet). If Weber would have had to accept less (and keep his cap hit equivalent to what it is now, again assuming the offer sheet and 5 year max term) but on shorter term to allow more cap space and be fair to the depth players, he would have only been able to start at around $8M year one salary. The new CBA structure could result in one of two things: elite players getting the same (or very similar) starting salary with less cap space for the rest, or all players taking a reduction on new contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 The charts look too conservative to me, but I appreciate the numbers. Maybe 15% variance might look better? This is not good for the game because owners can't plan total salary cost per year. Hands tied = another stupid lockout imo. I see 5 year 5% variance as the next lockout because the owners have no room to move and balance their own budget. I have to throw the Iginla contract(s) out there though. Why would Edwards be in these talks when he has his star player under contract for multiple contracts within 5 year limit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiDeN Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I'm going to poo in my pants until this lockout is over. I'm doing a poop strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bookie Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Manny Malhotra has had it with NHL labour talks Manny Malhotra has had a front-row seat for the emotional roller-coaster that the NHL labour talks have become, but will now watch the proceedings from afar. "I'm done," Malhotra said Monday. Not done because he's angry or frustrated by the stalemate -- and he most certainly is -- but because his wife Joann is expecting a baby next month and he wants to wait out the rest of her pregnancy at their Vancouver home. Malhotra reckons he has made 10 cross-continent trips to participate in CBA talks or NHLPA meetings. He's done more travelling than he would have had the season begun as scheduled. He calls the experience both invaluable and frustrating. There have been lots of highs and lows, none more so than last week in New York City. "I think you run the whole gamut of emotions throughout these talks," he said after skating with a few of his Canuck teammates at UBC. "Right from the get-go Don (Fehr) mentioned the biggest thing throughout this process would be patience and that has definitely been tested over the past few months and especially last week. "You get frustrated, you get angry, you get bitter, there are obviously highs when you feel like we're really close to a deal and the lows of having those negotiations break off. You run through everything." It has been Malhotra's job during much of these negotiations to keep his Canuck teammates informed of where things stand. He was particularly busy doing just that in the wake of Thursday's high drama in New York, when for a short time optimism reigned before NHL commissioner Gary Bettman appeared to paint a much more bleak picture. "Even during those meetings we'll break and I'll text guys," Malhotra said. "Today the way social media is everything breaks so quickly and you'd hate to have guys making decisions off of assumptions and rumours and tweets, so I do my best to make sure guys are informed as to what is really going on in those rooms as opposed to rumour and hearsay." Malhotra thinks the NHL's reaction late last week to what the union had viewed as real progress has further galvanized the players. He believes the players are as united as they were when the NHL pitched its first proposal back in the late summer, a lowball offer calling for a reduction in player revenue to 43 per cent from the existing 57. "As far as we have come with that last proposal and to have them reject it outright and call everything off, I think that pissed a lot of guys off again similar to the first deal they offered," Malhotra said of last week's events. "It made us that much more unified and strong." Malhotra was in the room with a group of players and owners last week when things turned sour. The owners had balked at the prospect of NHLPA head Donald Fehr entering the room. "I think it is another one of their tactics to try and discredit Don, to say he is the one standing in the way of a deal," Malhotra said. "I can't say enough about how strongly we feel about his leadership and what he has done for this organization so far. He's the professional, he has been doing this for years and to think that we'd be dotting the I's and crossing the T's without him in the room is just absurd." No one was surprised when the NHL announced Monday that it was cancelling another two week's worth of games though Dec. 30. But that decision served to reinforce the fact that crunch time is fast approaching if even a 48-game season can be salvaged. "We feel like there's a contract to be had," Canuck defenceman Kevin Bieksa said Monday. "We feel like we are close in the individual components of the CBA. If you ask them they think we're a little further apart. Maybe we are just a little more optimistic or maybe we just want to play hockey a little bit more than they do, but it seems like there are certain things they won't come to us on. "We've said it before, we have been making a lot of concessions and we'll continue to make concessions to get this game back on the ice. We need a willing partner who is going to negotiate in good faith, though." Malhotra likes to think the two sides are close enough to reach a settlement, but both parties seem to have dug in their heels on key contracting issues like CBA length and maximum contract lengths. "I don't know what to think at this point," Malhotra said. "I'll take a quote from Don. He's not in the predictions and guessing business and nor am I. It's been a very trying time trying to understand the rhyme and reason for a lot of their decisions and to try and take a guess on what they are thinking now and when things could get started would just be a waste of time really." Bieska is holding out hope for a pre-Christmas settlement that could allow for a New Year's Eve start to the season. It is interesting to note that the NHL did not cancel the 13 games it has scheduled for Dec. 31. One of those games has the Canucks playing host to the St. Louis Blues. "It would be nice to get something done before Christmas, give yourself a little bit of a training camp and start fresh in the new year," Bieksa said. "That would be ideal, I think." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shift-4 Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 SportsCentre: Via TSN Research: 20 Years ago today: Gary Bettman named #NHL commissioner. #TSN Who is getting him a present? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drive-By Body Pierce Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 SportsCentre: Via TSN Research: 20 Years ago today: Gary Bettman named #NHL commissioner. #TSN Who is getting him a present? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowest common denominator Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I don't know if any of you are interested in book learning these days but with no hockey, it might be a good time to start. I would suggest a book called Net Worth (Exploiting the Myths of Pro Hockey) by David Cruise and Alison Griffiths. I am half way through and it is super interesting. The owners of yore make present day owners look like angels! Lots of good anecdotes and history about how players have gotten the shaft since the beginning. Ted Lindsay is my new old hero, from his style of play to the way he stood up for the players against the owners. If you want to know where we are, it helps to look at how we got here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I'm going to poo in my pants until this lockout is over. I'm doing a poop strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I don't know if any of you are interested in book learning these days but with no hockey, it might be a good time to start. I would suggest a book called Net Worth (Exploiting the Myths of Pro Hockey) by David Cruise and Alison Griffiths. I am half way through and it is super interesting. The owners of yore make present day owners look like angels! Lots of good anecdotes and history about how players have gotten the shaft since the beginning. Ted Lindsay is my new old hero, from his style of play to the way he stood up for the players against the owners. If you want to know where we are, it helps to look at how we got here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 If you think that is bad what you should see what he said to me. I'm not whining, it doesnt bother me but I'm just throwing it out there. As for the actual post Nate was dead-on. And even if they did vote I doubt the majority of the PA would accept. If they accepted that offer it would have guarenteed a lockout next CBA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucksnihilist Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 absolutely ridiculous. isn't it funny how these negotiations (as well as the fiscal cliff negotiations) are stuck at some sort of lowest common denominator base-level idiocy? just like society as a whole and most people in it. rough drawing of the stages of maturity 1. you are born, you are not aware of anyone else (up to 2?) 2. you mature and realize other people are in your universe (by 3 certainly...) 3. you realize other people can be used, so you do so (unconscious modelling right away, understood by 6-12?) 4. you finally understand that other people are truly equal to you, but you get used yourself by them 5. you protect yourself against all the other people that are using you. (all are equal but some are more equal than others) 6. you get cynical and start hating people in general 7. you realize there is no point hating people, so you accept them. you live in the moment. Assuming you agree with that framework (and you probably don't, but change it as you see fit, I just made it up on the fly so am probably missing parts), where are the NHL and NHLPA negotiators? I'd say they are either in stage 3. I'd say stage 6 but I think that would be giving them too much credit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poetica Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 NHL, players to resume talks with mediators Wednesday The NHL and NHL Players' Association will resume their collective bargaining negotiations at an undisclosed location Wednesday — and they'll have some company. U.S. federal mediators Scot L. Beckenbaugh and John Sweeney are set to rejoin the process. It will be the first meeting since the two sides took public shots at each other after talks went off the rails last week. Prior to the blowup, they appeared to be making progress during three days in New York that saw an exchange of proposals. Donald Fehr, the NHLPA's executive director, maintains they have agreements on almost all of the important issues. It's Day 87 of the lockout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossi Vaananen Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Looks like the NHL accepted mediators this time around, remind me again why they couldn't do this last week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Looks like the NHL accepted mediators this time around, remind me again why they couldn't do this last week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poetica Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Looks like the NHL accepted mediators this time around, remind me again why they couldn't do this last week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shift-4 Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 The next meetings will be held on an undisclosed hill. Bill Daly is expected to bring his own shovel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 obstinance noun 1. the trait of being difficult to handle or overcome [syn: stubbornness] 2. resolute adherence to your own ideas or desires [syn: stubbornness] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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