-Vintage Canuck- Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 "I don’t trust Bettman and what his motive is. He’s a nice man, met him numerous times, but I don’t trust what’s happened so far." - Jason Chimera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I wonder if any new amnesty buyout clause will allow you to trade for a player and then buy him out? There are teams in trouble if there is a cap drop who may not really have the money to spend on a buyout. You could get some really good young players/picks basically for cash by getting another team off the hook for a contract. We don't really have anyone worth buying out. Ballard is maybe worth $3 million in a lower cap world (he is worth $4 million in a $70 million cap world). Luongo has enough value in a trade that you don't need to buy him out (unless the backdiving contract clause is really punitive). Booth is again maybe only a million overpaid in the new world. I wonder what you could get from Tampa Bay if you took the Lecavalier contract from them (they can buy out Ohlund themselves and it isn't too expensive). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 One thing I was pondering last night regarding the timing of this is what exactly will happen with the CHL trade deadline. For example, if the NHL does indeed get set for a Jan 18/19th start date that means the teams will need to have a training camp starting around Jan 11th. The CHL trade deadline is Jan 10th. Where this becomes an issue is that there was a recall exemption list filed by each team in the middle of September for up to 3 players that the NHL teams could invite to camp in the event a lockout ended. For the CHL teams currently sitting in a quality playoff spot they could very well lose their best players right at or after the deadline so they will not know if they need to replace those players as the NHL teams would not yet have decided if the player makes the squad. Also teams not in a playoff spot wopuld likely not be able to trade their best players to retool for the coming years. Seeing as the CHL has certain roster limits for overagers and imports this could make it impossible for any big name deals to happen this year. Why would a GM trade for a top player he may never get or, conversely, not have roster room for? The most likely candidates to compete for spots immediately would be Dougie Hamilton, Ryan Strome, Mark Schiefele, Boone Jenner among others. I can't find a full list of the players marked but I did find a partial list. http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=406102 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeak Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 One thing I was pondering last night regarding the timing of this is what exactly will happen with the CHL trade deadline. For example, if the NHL does indeed get set for a Jan 18/19th start date that means the teams will need to have a training camp starting around Jan 11th. The CHL trade deadline is Jan 10th. Where this becomes an issue is that there was a recall exemption list filed by each team in the middle of September for up to 3 players that the NHL teams could invite to camp in the event a lockout ended. For the CHL teams currently sitting in a quality playoff spot they could very well lose their best players right at or after the deadline so they will not know if they need to replace those players as the NHL teams would not yet have decided if the player makes the squad. Also teams not in a playoff spot wopuld likely not be able to trade their best players to retool for the coming years. Seeing as the CHL has certain roster limits for overagers and imports this could make it impossible for any big name deals to happen this year. Why would a GM trade for a top player he may never get or, conversely, not have roster room for? The most likely candidates to compete for spots immediately would be Dougie Hamilton, Ryan Strome, Mark Schiefele, Boone Jenner among others. I can't find a full list of the players marked but I did find a partial list. http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=406102 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Vintage Canuck- Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 @JSportsnet The reality of today in the CBA talks... There is a real chance that there are no meetings today. #NHL#NHLPA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Here's the full list: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/feature/?id=9539 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Starting to get the idea that this is going to fall apart again. The League is holding onto things that aren't big deals for them (like next year's cap) and not letting the PA have any wins at all in this. On top of that, it always seems that when the two sides think they have an agreement, it turns out the NHL is really just agreeing in principle and then trying to screw them in the details (eg. "Make Whole"... woo that sounds good. Oh wait, it doesn't mean make whole?" or "Amnesty buyouts... sounds good... oh wait, you want players to pay for them" They haven't polished off most of the details so I fully expect the NHL to have a bunch of things in the nitty gritty that isn't as good as the PA thinks it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 "But if you think about it, Jensen only has to be as good as Raymond, and Schroeder has to be as good as Malhotra or Hodgson, which time will tell. I think Tanev can be as good as Ballard, but beyond that I think our depth on D will be significantly weaker if we don't make some upgrades." Dear me, talk about fantasy hockey. DN you've been spending too much time on this lockout bull, your hockey judgement has just evaporated. These 3 "only has to be as good as" are never going to happen. Not for a good few years at any rate. Jensen is 4 years away from coming near to Raymond. (on a bad day) As for putting Schroeder in Malhotra's or Hodgson's shoes, have you been watching the Wolves? (I know you have been which makes your statement even more jaw dropping) I like the way you leave the best till last. Tanev "might" one day show Ballard's skills, speed, pushback, shot, stretch pass, checking ability..........but not in the next 5 years, if that. I like optimism as much as the next guy but COME ON! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Vintage Canuck- Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 @benkuzma: Henrik Sedin on CBA negotiations: "I'm hoping they get it done, but I've seen things happen. It wouldn't surprise me if it didn't happen." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Vintage Canuck- Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 @ElliottPap: Canuck D Dan Hamhuis on another disclaimer of interest vote: "I think leverage is important whenever you're negotiating." #willthiseverend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Karlsson Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 holy frack this is just retarded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 If they don't get a deal done now, it will be all on the players. These guys have to realize that they've had it pretty good for the last little while, but it wasn't going to continue forever. The rest of the world is in a recession, and alot of people don't even have jobs. Just check your egos and sign a deal. They're going to be making more than they could be playing anywhere else, or doing anything else. Passing up a full years pay because of principle is not a smart thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodee Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Are we talking about the same Raymond? Or maybe you don't know who Jensen is... Either way, he's not 4 years away from reaching that level. I think you're in for a shock there. And you don't think Tanev can be as good as Ballard? A guy who has put up 14 points in the last two seasons, and has been questionable defensively at times. If put with the right linemates, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility for Schroeder to put up 30-40 points. If he got the same powerplay time Hodgson got on a better team, the points would come. You can't use the Wolves as a basis, that team is not very good. He's actually doing pretty well, considering he's on one of the lowest scoring teams in the AHL. I don't think my evaluation of these players is that off. Maybe your lack of faith in them is. The bottom line is, Raymond and Ballard have been average at best the last couple seasons. The bar hasn't been set very high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poetica Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 A little off topic, but an interesting article about how much public money the NHL gets: The battle between the NHL and NHLPA gets uglier once public money is taken into account Partial quote: Looking solely at public money poured into financing current NHL arenas built since 1993, various governments in the United States have spent a total of $2.67 billion in today’s dollars on homes for NHL teams. Only two arenas – facilities in Boston and Columbus – have been built without the aid of public funds. In Canada, arenas have primarily been built solely with private money over the last two decades; only $52.9 million in today’s dollars has been spent on arenas (that’s set to change as both Calgary and Edmonton are hoping for public sector money for their new homes; but that’s a different discussion). Combine those two figures and the respective governments in North America have paid $2.72 billion dollars in direct funding for arenas currently used by NHL teams since 1993, which works out to an annual average of $143 million. Of course, this is back of the envelope calculation. Those arenas also serve as the homes to other professional sports teams in many cases, and those teams are sharing in this sort of public subsidy. The arenas are used to host events that aren’t professional sports as well. On the other hand, teams also receive a number of subsidies both arena and non-arena related. For example, the deal negotiated by the Edmonton Investors Group saw the Oilers pay just one dollar in rent for the use of Rexall Place, as well as providing a contribution to operating costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 If they don't get a deal done now, it will be all on the players. These guys have to realize that they've had it pretty good for the last little while, but it wasn't going to continue forever. The rest of the world is in a recession, and alot of people don't even have jobs. Just check your egos and sign a deal. They're going to be making more than they could be playing anywhere else, or doing anything else. Passing up a full years pay because of principle is not a smart thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 losing hope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 You are definitely missing some serious legs to your logic there. Who cares about the world recession? The business THESE PEOPLE are in (the NHL) is making money like gangbusters. In times of trouble the entertainment industries have historically done really well... presumably because people want to have a little escape. People who are the best at what they do on the planet have jobs. The players are the best at what they do on the planet. They spend a decade preparing to get drafted, and then spend a couple years getting paid low dollars, and if they are incredibly lucky they get the the NHL where they have to earn all the money for their entire careers in an average 4 year span. I have known a few NHL players fairly well. I can tell you that what it takes to make it to that level means that they have virtually no other skills in life. It is a very few players who go to college and can make themselves a decent second career after hockey... most just go back to the farm or play in lower leagues where they earn under $50k per year for the rest of their lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 If they don't get a deal done now, it will be all on the players. These guys have to realize that they've had it pretty good for the last little while, but it wasn't going to continue forever. The rest of the world is in a recession, and alot of people don't even have jobs. Just check your egos and sign a deal. They're going to be making more than they could be playing anywhere else, or doing anything else. Passing up a full years pay because of principle is not a smart thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 If they don't get a deal done now, it will be all on the owners. These guys have to realize that they've had it pretty good for the last little while, but it wasn't going to continue forever. The rest of the world is in a recession, and a lot of businesses have gone under. Just check your egos and sign a deal. They're going to be making more than they could are just leaving the doors closed. Passing up a full years revenues because of principle is not a smart thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poetica Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 That said, I have a lot of faith in Raymond, unlike many on here. I have seen the few times Jensen played in the AHL and the pre season he had a year+ ago. He is far from being near to Raymond imo,however he MAY be a good player for us (2nd/3rd line maybe) in 3/4 years. How is he doing in Sweden anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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