Boudrias Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Red Wings Henrik Zetterberg thinks that some players will remain overseas this year: “I know for a fact Russians will probably stay,” Zetterberg said. “I can’t blame them either. The Russian league treats players a different way. For them to play in their home country and not have these (labor) disputes every other year … and they honor the contracts over there. If you sign a deal, that’s the deal you get.” http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2012/10/red_wings_henrik_zetterberg_st_1.html Sharks Ryane Clowe on the lockout: “Players are on the same page,” Clowe told ESPN.com Wednesday. “No one’s cracking. We’re informed and updated and guys have a good understanding of what’s going on. … “We’re hockey players,” he added. “We’re not going to get pushed around.” “The way I see it, if Ryan Suter or Zach Parise signed those big deals in July and then arrived at training camp and said, ‘We’re not playing until we get 20 percent more on our contract,’ there would be an uproar,” said Clowe. “The owners would say, ‘No chance.’ Well, it’s the same thing. Contracts have been signed, both the owners and the players have signed these contracts. Now they’re trying to take whatever percentage off the top? It’s all about principle. It’s a handshake and an agreement. Why did all these owners rush to sign all these players before the lockout?” “I’m sure there are owners that want to be playing now and probably like our last proposal,” said Clowe. “Obviously Gary has done a good job keeping the reins tight. But I can’t believe how the owners are kept on the back burner like that.” http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/19675/ryane-clowe-players-arent-cracking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poetica Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I'm sure no player has ever asked for a trade after signing a contract......Rick Nash, Dany Heatley, Chris Pronger to name a few Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gumballthechewy Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 NHL Fan Lockout Pledge I pledge to not spend a single penny on anything NHL related during any season where a single game is lost due to a work stoppage of any kind. If an entire season is lost due to a work stoppage of any kind, I pledge to not spend a single penny on anything NHL related for the entire next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poetica Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 [Message edited for brevity.] You should make that picture in sig form, if you do I'll gladly put it in my sig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Vintage Canuck- Posted October 12, 2012 Author Share Posted October 12, 2012 Quotes from Sidney Crosby: “If you look at the offers,” he said, “I think they’re pretty clear. We’re willing to make a deal. There isn’t a deal to be made right now. There’s their deal. And there’s our deal. They want their deal. There is no real meeting (in the middle). They’ve drawn that line. Hopefully they understand that taking a stance like that is affecting a lot of people besides us.” http://triblive.com/sports/penguins/2762409-85/crosby-deal-isn-nhl-lot-control-friday-players-scheduled-season#axzz294yPwYqw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiDeN Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 I'm sure no player has ever asked for a trade after signing a contract......Rick Nash, Dany Heatley, Chris Pronger to name a few Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puckluv Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 I have a question -- please humor me. I wish I could see a graph of where the money goes (1)When the players get 57% (or whatever percent) of the HRR what happens to that money? is it shared evenly amongst all the players on top of their individual contracts? (2)or is that where the money for their contract comes from? And since their contracts are guaranteed the difference comes from the top revenue earning teams to the lowest earning teams ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHL rocks Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 LP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poetica Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Puckluv, as I understand it (and I could be wrong....this is seriously complicated stuff!)..... HRR was defined in the last CBA as including certain types of revenue but not others (like arena revenue not related to hockey events.) Each year teams had to fill out HRR reports which were like filling out tax forms. (You can see a sample of the report of the copy of the last CBA which is available, in its entirety, at the NHLPA website.) In it teams had to list qualified initial HRR as well as note allowed costs which were taken off of the HRR. All of these reports were given to an independent accountant who compiled them, deducted additional agreed upon amounts at the league level and then used those numbers to come up with the final HRR. It is that final HRR number, after numerous deductions (which probably did not cover all of the costs, but also means players weren't getting nearly a full 57% of all revenues like many people falsely believe) that players' share was taken from. That number was used to determine the salary cap and floor for the following year. It was also used to determine who was owed money (from the portion of each player's salary that had been held back in escrow) and how much based upon the agreed percentages of HRR. (The actual percentage of salary held in escrow was different every year. If you'd like to take a stab at that equation, be my guest.) After the final HRR number was determined the independent accountant decided if there was an overage or shortage, or if the teams overpaid according to the agreed upon percentage of final HRR or underpaid. If they overpaid (say if the league's revenues dropped from the previous year's), the appropriate amount was refunded to the league (not sure how that was split up to be honest) and the remaining money released to the players. If the teams underpaid, the money was released to the players on the agreed upon escrow date. As for where that money comes from, I would assume it comes from each team's operating budgets. Each team is required to spend to the cap floor. According to the last CBA certain teams were eligible for what amounted to bailout money to help them stay afloat. At the end of each season after the final HRR was determined teams that qualified that spent more than the agreed upon percentage of the club's final HRR on player's salary were eligible for "full share" compensation. That gets pretty complicated too, so feel free to read about it in the CBA. It is seriously complicated, but I fully encourage everyone to at least have a look at the last CBA, especially the attached sample HRR reporting package. There are many myths floating around, especially the one about how the players supposedly got 57% of every dollar of revenue and then the owners had to pay all of the expenses out of the 43% they got. In reality, teams don't have to count all revenue to start with and then got deductions for many costs before the players' share was determined. In fact, as I understand it teams that used the final HRR number to plead poverty may not have been in the red at all once all of the excluded revenue was included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 It is seriously complicated, but I fully encourage everyone to at least have a look at the last CBA, especially the attached sample HRR reporting package. There are many myths floating around, especially the one about how the players supposedly got 57% of every dollar of revenue and then the owners had to pay all of the expenses out of the 43% they got. In reality, teams don't have to count all revenue to start with and then got deductions for many costs before the players' share was determined. In fact, as I understand it teams that used the final HRR number to plead poverty may not have been in the red at all once all of the excluded revenue was included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamJamIam Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Puckluv, as I understand it (and I could be wrong....this is seriously complicated stuff!)..... HRR was defined in the last CBA as including certain types of revenue but not others (like arena revenue not related to hockey events.) Each year teams had to fill out HRR reports which were like filling out tax forms. (You can see a sample of the report of the copy of the last CBA which is available, in its entirety, at the NHLPA website.) In it teams had to list qualified initial HRR as well as note allowed costs which were taken off of the HRR. All of these reports were given to an independent accountant who compiled them, deducted additional agreed upon amounts at the league level and then used those numbers to come up with the final HRR. It is that final HRR number, after numerous deductions (which probably did not cover all of the costs, but also means players weren't getting nearly a full 57% of all revenues like many people falsely believe) that players' share was taken from. That number was used to determine the salary cap and floor for the following year. It was also used to determine who was owed money (from the portion of each player's salary that had been held back in escrow) and how much based upon the agreed percentages of HRR. (The actual percentage of salary held in escrow was different every year. If you'd like to take a stab at that equation, be my guest.) After the final HRR number was determined the independent accountant decided if there was an overage or shortage, or if the teams overpaid according to the agreed upon percentage of final HRR or underpaid. If they overpaid (say if the league's revenues dropped from the previous year's), the appropriate amount was refunded to the league (not sure how that was split up to be honest) and the remaining money released to the players. If the teams underpaid, the money was released to the players on the agreed upon escrow date. As for where that money comes from, I would assume it comes from each team's operating budgets. Each team is required to spend to the cap floor. According to the last CBA certain teams were eligible for what amounted to bailout money to help them stay afloat. At the end of each season after the final HRR was determined teams that qualified that spent more than the agreed upon percentage of the club's final HRR on player's salary were eligible for "full share" compensation. That gets pretty complicated too, so feel free to read about it in the CBA. It is seriously complicated, but I fully encourage everyone to at least have a look at the last CBA, especially the attached sample HRR reporting package. There are many myths floating around, especially the one about how the players supposedly got 57% of every dollar of revenue and then the owners had to pay all of the expenses out of the 43% they got. In reality, teams don't have to count all revenue to start with and then got deductions for many costs before the players' share was determined. In fact, as I understand it teams that used the final HRR number to plead poverty may not have been in the red at all once all of the excluded revenue was included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 I think this is a key element that a lot of people don't consider when they throw out "it should be a 50/50 split" to be even. If you count total revenue rather than HRR, then you could argue a 50/50 split. I honestly thought that discussing what revenue was to be included in HRR would have been the first issue to be dealt with... but they have hardly tried to crack that nut yet at all. At this point I think the only way they are able to move forward is to leave it as is and play with percentages. With all the different corporate structures between the teams (who runs the arena, concession, etc) it is way too complicated to deal with in a short time frame. Most service related companies spend 70-80% of their total revenue on salary and benefits (the rest going for facilities, overhead, etc), so I don't think it is way out of line for the players to be expecting 50% of the total piece of the pie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Nolan Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 First saturday night lost... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Vintage Canuck- Posted October 13, 2012 Author Share Posted October 13, 2012 Source said that NHL and NHLPA are not any further along in the CBA process than they were on Sept. 15th. #NHL source tells me we're not any further in CBA process than were on Sept. 15th when lockout officially began #great— Andy Strickland (@andystrickland) October 12, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiDeN Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 It is completely irresponsible to have left the negotiations to this point. They should have been at this point around July 1st. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gumballthechewy Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 It is completely irresponsible to have left the negotiations to this point. They should have been at this point around July 1st. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmen81 Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Does anyone know when the NFL and NBA lockouts ended if both sides were far apart like the NHL and NHLPA are right now and then all of a sudden reached a deal. Or were both sides far apart and then after a few weeks of getting negotiating they finally reached a deal? I ask because obviously both sides are far apart and was wondering if maybe one day we wake up and they reach a deal, or do we have to sit through a few weeks of people telling us they are getting closer before reaching a deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puckluv Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Puckluv, as I understand it (and I could be wrong....this is seriously complicated stuff!)..... HRR was defined in the last CBA as including certain types of revenue but not others (like arena revenue not related to hockey events.) Each year teams had to fill out HRR reports which were like filling out tax forms. (You can see a sample of the report of the copy of the last CBA which is available, in its entirety, at the NHLPA website.) In it teams had to list qualified initial HRR as well as note allowed costs which were taken off of the HRR. All of these reports were given to an independent accountant who compiled them, deducted additional agreed upon amounts at the league level and then used those numbers to come up with the final HRR. It is that final HRR number, after numerous deductions (which probably did not cover all of the costs, but also means players weren't getting nearly a full 57% of all revenues like many people falsely believe) that players' share was taken from. That number was used to determine the salary cap and floor for the following year. It was also used to determine who was owed money (from the portion of each player's salary that had been held back in escrow) and how much based upon the agreed percentages of HRR. (The actual percentage of salary held in escrow was different every year. If you'd like to take a stab at that equation, be my guest.) After the final HRR number was determined the independent accountant decided if there was an overage or shortage, or if the teams overpaid according to the agreed upon percentage of final HRR or underpaid. If they overpaid (say if the league's revenues dropped from the previous year's), the appropriate amount was refunded to the league (not sure how that was split up to be honest) and the remaining money released to the players. If the teams underpaid, the money was released to the players on the agreed upon escrow date. As for where that money comes from, I would assume it comes from each team's operating budgets. Each team is required to spend to the cap floor. According to the last CBA certain teams were eligible for what amounted to bailout money to help them stay afloat. At the end of each season after the final HRR was determined teams that qualified that spent more than the agreed upon percentage of the club's final HRR on player's salary were eligible for "full share" compensation. That gets pretty complicated too, so feel free to read about it in the CBA. It is seriously complicated, but I fully encourage everyone to at least have a look at the last CBA, especially the attached sample HRR reporting package. There are many myths floating around, especially the one about how the players supposedly got 57% of every dollar of revenue and then the owners had to pay all of the expenses out of the 43% they got. In reality, teams don't have to count all revenue to start with and then got deductions for many costs before the players' share was determined. In fact, as I understand it teams that used the final HRR number to plead poverty may not have been in the red at all once all of the excluded revenue was included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck_trevor16 Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 I just have a bad feeling negotiation wont be done by December............and likely no NHL this year............maybe just short-term deal first? like 2 years? and go from there.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poetica Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Thanks for your detailed answer, that clarifies some of the confusion for me. I would love to see a chart lol! I read this quick and dirty explanation here http://basketball.ab...-Leagues_4.htm but you filled in a lot of the blanks! thanks again! I find it funny that redistribution of wealth is a common place within the business realm because it makes sense ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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