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*Official* CBA Negotiations and Lockout Thread

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Sympathy for players = Gone.

If they wanted to play a full season this year they'd take 50-50, the fact they're not even going there proves how greedy they are

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4 offers tabled. All 50/50. Players are saying "Sounds good. Lets tweak things" and are making owners pick their poison. Me likey.

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Are you serious?

First, the owners are even richer than the players despite not having done anything more to earn it than the players, so if you're going to hate on the players for being rich, why not hate on the even richer owners, many of whom got rich by screwing over those less fortunate?

Look at what Katz is trying to do to Edmonton! A multi-BILLIONAIRE wants taxpayers to take out loans to build him an arena, allow him to pay back well under half at little or no interest over decades, keep naming rights and advertising revenue, get even more significant tax breaks over and above the luxury rate the team already enjoys, get a yearly handout of $5 million to completely offset, when combined with advertising and naming revenues, the cost of operating the arena, give him a casino license for the arena, and then let him keep the profits from all events in the arena for 11 months of the year. And keep in mind, it's only the $5 million yearly handout the finally got the politicians concerned (for their political futures, most likely.) Other than that, they were on board with a deal that would have already cost taxpayers millions a year in lost tax revenue and loan repayments. (Sorry, kids with cancer. Can't build you that new hospital wing. A private corporation wanted public handouts for private profit!) And even still, Katz couldn't be bothered to show up to public meetings to talk about the deal or defend why he was demanding even more money from the taxpayers for his private corporation. That's an prime example of how owners made their money - by taking it from the rest of us.

Secondly, it's the owners who locked out the players for not taking their first incredibly insulting, demeaning and darn near criminal offer. So, how is the actions of the owners on the players?

Third, the owners are better off than they were the last CBA but they are still demanding even more in every regard (money, contract limits, required service term, etc.) while, again, not offering to give up a single thing themselves (and probably already planning their next ticket price hike). How exactly does that make the players greedy?

Fourth, why is it that so many fans want to hold players accountable but not owners? Players created record revenue (and yes, they created it...no one's buying owner jerseys or bobble heads!) despite a bad economy. Players made all of the concessions in the last CBA and gave the owners exactly what they said they needed. Owners, on the other hand, are the one who found ways around the very rules they demanded. Owners are the ones who created long-term, front loaded contracts to get around the cap they demanded. Owners are the ones inflating salaries for big name players because they know that those big names are where the big revenues come from. Owners are the ones using creative accounting to get around fully reporting all agreed upon HRR (such as by taking portions of luxury boxes as deductions for concessions or parking, or claiming portions as being for other non-hockey events despite the fact that luxury boxes were to be included in entirety.) Owners are the ones who continue to get huge tax breaks and other public handouts at taxpayers' expense while giving back next to nothing. (And despite research that shows that professional sports teams do not have a significant positive impact on the local economy and in fact it's often the opposite, as it encourages locals to spend disposable income on a company that will take most of it out of the local area.) In fact, even the charitable acts done by teams (probably for the team's tax credit) is done largely by the players!

And despite their claims of being concerned for the health of the league, owners are the ones who limited which teams were eligible for team revenue sharing in the last CBA because they wanted the players to just take less instead of them having to do any of the sharing themselves. And matters only got worse for the lower end teams. But still, it was the players who asked for increased team revenue sharing this time in order to help the poorer teams and make the league healthier. That's the only "concession" owners have made (and it benefits them!) The new proposed revenue sharing will be inline with other North American sports offer while still barely touching to the bottom line of the rich teams but will make all but a couple of teams profitable. (If the revenue share pot is $200 mill and 20 teams are eligible, that means $10 mill for each and in 2010, the last year we have team reports for, only 2 teams, Florida and Phoenix, would still have a loss. All other owners of losing teams will take home a profit while still professing poverty publicly. In fact, in the past teams that publicly reported operating losses but who were eligible for revenue sharing very likely were made profitable by the handout money, even though the team still publicly decried poverty.)

Mark my words. If owners continue to get this kind of positive reinforcement, we will have a lockout every time the CBA expires. Why wouldn't they lock the players out if fans just blindly blame the players and public opinion is used to force players into giving up even more while yet again allowing the owners to benefit while not being held accountable for their own actions and bad choices?

I say we make them all pay by going into a fan spending lockout! Let BOTH sides know that they will not just benefit from stoppages. There will be consequences, if not from the parities involved in the negotiations, at least from the fans!

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So frustrated and tired of this whole thing. Completely fed up with the players too. Asking for more than 57 on HHR in year 1 is pathetic. They aren't even trying to negotiate.

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Look i don't have the time to go through your whole post but i will say that the owners have invested and made their money to buy a franchise and deserve return on their investments. The owners take all the risks at profitting or losing tons of money. There is several teams losing money and lots barely break even and insane high ticket prices and it's all due to players salaries being astronomical thats the bottom line. Why should owners lose money when overpayed spoiled players get their contracts no matter how their team does financially or how much the players underachieve. If a player gets paid to score 40 plus goals and drops to 20 he gets the same there is never a threat he won't get paid so that in itself imo is enough reason for players to shut up and sign a deal and get back at it. Average salaries in the 3+ million range living the lives they live and whining is downright ridiculous. I have no sympathy for the players in this whatsoever.

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So frustrated and tired of this whole thing. Completely fed up with the players too. Asking for more than 57 on HHR in year 1 is pathetic. They aren't even trying to negotiate.

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Are you serious?

First, the owners are even richer than the players despite not having done anything more to earn it than the players, so if you're going to hate on the players for being rich, why not hate on the even richer owners, many of whom got rich by screwing over those less fortunate?

Look at what Katz is trying to do to Edmonton! A multi-BILLIONAIRE wants taxpayers to take out loans to build him an arena, allow him to pay back well under half at little or no interest over decades, keep naming rights and advertising revenue, get even more significant tax breaks over and above the luxury rate the team already enjoys, get a yearly handout of $5 million to completely offset, when combined with advertising and naming revenues, the cost of operating the arena, give him a casino license for the arena, and then let him keep the profits from all events in the arena for 11 months of the year. And keep in mind, it's only the $5 million yearly handout the finally got the politicians concerned (for their political futures, most likely.) Other than that, they were on board with a deal that would have already cost taxpayers millions a year in lost tax revenue and loan repayments. (Sorry, kids with cancer. Can't build you that new hospital wing. A private corporation wanted public handouts for private profit!) And even still, Katz couldn't be bothered to show up to public meetings to talk about the deal or defend why he was demanding even more money from the taxpayers for his private corporation. That's an prime example of how owners made their money - by taking it from the rest of us.

Secondly, it's the owners who locked out the players for not taking their first incredibly insulting, demeaning and darn near criminal offer. So, how is the actions of the owners on the players?

Third, the owners are better off than they were the last CBA but they are still demanding even more in every regard (money, contract limits, required service term, etc.) while, again, not offering to give up a single thing themselves (and probably already planning their next ticket price hike). How exactly does that make the players greedy?

Fourth, why is it that so many fans want to hold players accountable but not owners? Players created record revenue (and yes, they created it...no one's buying owner jerseys or bobble heads!) despite a bad economy. Players made all of the concessions in the last CBA and gave the owners exactly what they said they needed. Owners, on the other hand, are the one who found ways around the very rules they demanded. Owners are the ones who created long-term, front loaded contracts to get around the cap they demanded. Owners are the ones inflating salaries for big name players because they know that those big names are where the big revenues come from. Owners are the ones using creative accounting to get around fully reporting all agreed upon HRR (such as by taking portions of luxury boxes as deductions for concessions or parking, or claiming portions as being for other non-hockey events despite the fact that luxury boxes were to be included in entirety.) Owners are the ones who continue to get huge tax breaks and other public handouts at taxpayers' expense while giving back next to nothing. (And despite research that shows that professional sports teams do not have a significant positive impact on the local economy and in fact it's often the opposite, as it encourages locals to spend disposable income on a company that will take most of it out of the local area.) In fact, even the charitable acts done by teams (probably for the team's tax credit) is done largely by the players!

And despite their claims of being concerned for the health of the league, owners are the ones who limited which teams were eligible for team revenue sharing in the last CBA because they wanted the players to just take less instead of them having to do any of the sharing themselves. And matters only got worse for the lower end teams. But still, it was the players who asked for increased team revenue sharing this time in order to help the poorer teams and make the league healthier. That's the only "concession" owners have made (and it benefits them!) The new proposed revenue sharing will be inline with other North American sports offer while still barely touching to the bottom line of the rich teams but will make all but a couple of teams profitable. (If the revenue share pot is $200 mill and 20 teams are eligible, that means $10 mill for each and in 2010, the last year we have team reports for, only 2 teams, Florida and Phoenix, would still have a loss. All other owners of losing teams will take home a profit while still professing poverty publicly. In fact, in the past teams that publicly reported operating losses but who were eligible for revenue sharing very likely were made profitable by the handout money, even though the team still publicly decried poverty.)

Mark my words. If owners continue to get this kind of positive reinforcement, we will have a lockout every time the CBA expires. Why wouldn't they lock the players out if fans just blindly blame the players and public opinion is used to force players into giving up even more while yet again allowing the owners to benefit while not being held accountable for their own actions and bad choices?

I say we make them all pay by going into a fan spending lockout! Let BOTH sides know that they will not just benefit from stoppages. There will be consequences, if not from the parities involved in the negotiations, at least from the fans!

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Sympathy for players = Gone.

If they wanted to play a full season this year they'd take 50-50, the fact they're not even going there proves how greedy they are

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It's amazing how quickly the public perception changed this week. Most fans were on the players side last week, now most of us would side with owners. I don't think much as changed in the overall lockout situation, but new information has come to light (i.e. proposals) and the owners (via Bettman) have don't a masterful job of manipulating the situation via their "50/50 82 game" proposal.

Right now it seems like the players are being greedy and focusing a lot on how much they gave up last time. But I'm sure more information will come out in the next few days about the PA's position.

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Thats it. I have had enough of the nhl and the business posturing. constant work stoppages and the "who cares about the hockey fan". Had enough of Bettmans press conferences and had enough of Allan Alda or should I say Donald "fehr" me. I'm done following it.

I'm actually enjoying watching nfl, cfl all the while saving my time and money. I ll watch ahl:cheap tickets, nhl like games without the whining and constant power and money struggles who are happy to keep and entice any hockey fan.C Ya nhl!

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It's amazing how quickly the public perception changed this week. Most fans were on the players side last week, now most of us would side with owners. I don't think much as changed in the overall lockout situation, but new information has come to light (i.e. proposals) and the owners (via Bettman) have don't a masterful job of manipulating the situation via their "50/50 82 game" proposal.

Right now it seems like the players are being greedy and focusing a lot on how much they gave up last time. But I'm sure more information will come out in the next few days about the PA's position.

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I am still cautiously optimistic. Was expecting much worse reactions than what was seen from bettman. Deal will get done i think.

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Way to quote poetica's huge post twice, but have nothing to say about it. Keep up the good work.

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I have never swayed in my opinion that the players are to blame need to give back and now its just getting clearer and clearer that i am right and they are all a bunch of greedy spoiled brats or at least the leaders who are leading them.

Its time the decent players who appreciate what they do for a living and make outragious money playing the game they love step up and stop this.

In this game of hockey the players are all winning and only a few owners are and thats the bottom line nothing else.

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His response was embedded at the top of the second quote.

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Such BS.

At the end of the day you're both rich. Make a freakin deal already.

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