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*Official* CBA Negotiations and Lockout Thread


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#3781 frazzY

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:59 AM

Which players left the K? Anyone got a list i cant find anything on google..
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#3782 Canucks_fo_life

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:01 AM



Hope this is legit
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#3783 The Bookie

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:04 AM

Which players left the K? Anyone got a list i cant find anything on google..


I saw that mentioned earlier but haven't heard any names. Although Landeskog left his team in Sweden for 'tax reasons'. And Ovechkin abruptly changed his tone just yesterday too - after months of saying he might decide to stay in Russia regardless, yesterday he gave an interview saying he misses the NHL and wants to return to Washington.
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#3784 WHL rocks

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:33 AM

I've also looked for the list of exodus out of KHL. It doesn't exist, someone made it up.
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#3785 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:37 AM

Hope this is legit


That's the journalist alright. I just question his delivery, he states a meeting occurred last night with 'significant progress' and then pans over to Lucic to get an optimistic response. It's like confirming there is no scientific proof of a 'god' and then supporting the point with an atheist.. it's not like Lucic sat in on the meetings nor did Lucic confirm the meetings happened in that brief segment. Nothing definitive from this little skit.

I will of course remain optimistic, and hope the other indicators of progress remain valid.
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#3786 The Bookie

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:51 AM

Finally seeing the tv clip (I searched when this news storm started up earlier but it wasn't online yet) I have to say it doesn't match the way it was breathlessly reported. I'll gladly be proven wrong if I wake up to news of an agreement tomorrow but colour me unimpressed right now. Way too vague. My first thought was the usual NHL beat reporter called in sick so they stuck this guy in front of the camera and asked him to make something up on the spot.

edit - I also have to laugh at people suggesting this guy put his journalistic reputation on the line with this one. He covers basketball and football. I doubt he's worried about how his career will fare if he's hated on by the odd die-hard NHL fan.

Edited by The Bookie, 04 December 2012 - 02:53 AM.

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#3787 DeNiro

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:58 AM

There's no such thing as journalistic integrity nowadays unfortunately. Anyone can say anything without being held accountable, as long as they claim to have a "source".

This guy's just trying to get his name out there by making a bold prediction. The fact that no other reporter has caught wind of it makes me know that it's a lie.

Sorry guys, but I've learned from history to not believe these things. Don't get your hopes up until a report of an agreement is official. This is just some no name trying to sound credible. If his so called "source" is wrong, I doubt he cares. People will forget all about it anyways.
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#3788 The Bookie

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:50 AM

Actually - and this is just a very small hopeful actually - one thing I just noticed was that this was the lead segment from a football journalist on a Monday night. So yeah, maybe he's just trying to branch out and make a name for himself amongst the fans of a new sport, but, it does seem odd. The vast majority of people tuning in wouldn't be thinking of the Bruins.

Having stared at the transcript of what he said for too long now, I feel like the reasonable interpretation is that he got word of a meeting between Daly and S.Fehr drawing up a potential agreement for the player/owner meeting tomorrow.

Anyways, I think I'm just bored and starting to go crazy from lack of puck.
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#3789 poetica

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:54 AM

Tweets at TSN are saying the PA was told as many players as want can attend today's meeting. Apparently there are about 25 in NYC and about 10 are expected to attend. At least that allows the PA to decide what they think is the right number.
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#3790 Drybone

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:02 AM

Daniel really puts his neck out here.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=410919

The fans are really giving it to him pretty hard. Read the replies.

I have no idea who is telling the players they are so 'hard done' by. They can only think that way if they honestly believe they are 50% owners with the league and are ENTITLED to requirements with the people who actually own the thing.

I feel this was worth mentioning because even Daniel seems to think the players are 'giving up concessions' ..........from this point of view that they have RIGHTS over the league and thus have something to give up.

Fehr really has done a number on these guys heads. The average fans sees the players making PLENTY of money, and see franchises in continual states of near default. They cant GIVE AWAY the Coyotes franchise unless they relocate it. Owning an NHL team is no picnic.

And this is why a huge overwhelming number of fans are turning on the players as they do not see what they have to be so pissed off about in the first place. A 50 /50 deal is simply a fair deal for guys who dont even own any of the league.

I think the league is smart to seperate the players from the brainwashing. Bring them to the table and SHOW THEM the actual fiscal realities of what is going on.

Show them the deal they have on the table without Fehr there to tell em they need him to get them more. The owners have stated all along they will NOT move under any circumstances unless this new CBA is viable for all teams to become stable.

I have no idea why the players cant just take this deal and move on. Fire Fehr and get a hockey guy next time.
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#3791 Boudrias

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:05 AM

That's because the stated purpose from both sides of this meeting is negotiation.

According to Daly, "We want to find a way to get to a deal. Nothing else has worked. The commissioner felt that we might as well propose something different. We will see how they respond." (Source: http://espn.go.com/n...l-labor-dispute)

According to Fehr, "We hope that this meeting will be constructive and lead to a dialogue that will help us find a way to reach an agreement." (Source: http://www.guardian....rs-owners-talks)

A discussion between the 2 parties with the expressed purpose of finding a way to get a deal done is negotiation.



Nothing about the owners' negotiating style has been in the same postal code as "nuanced." In fact, I'm pretty sure they couldn't even find "nuanced" with a GPS.



Sorry, which part of that is nuanced?



Yes, that is the line that keeps getting repeated in multiple stories, but what proof is there that that's true? We've all heard the stories about how Jacobs shoots down anyone who tries to voice a different opinion. I find it hard to believe that the NHL, who carefully selected which owners were going to be present and has a long history of quieting dissenting opinions, would have chosen any who would dare speak out against the NHL's stated position, especially when it's being reported that Dolan wanted to be one of the owners present in hopes of facilitating a deal (and that Lundqvist specifically said he'd like to see Dolan involved (Source: http://www.nydailyne...ticle-1.1211315)) but he was apparently turned down despite him having a history of dealing with sports labour disputes and owning the second most valuable franchise.

But what's said in stories aside, how can you call them "doves" when you said you think the entire purpose of the meeting is simply to prove that there are no owners with which players can negotiate, that it's just a "take our deal or we'll keep cancelling games until you do" situation? There's nothing dove-like in that. Or nuanced.

The point I was trying to make was that the PA has to hope that there is a faction within ownership who will break ranks and force a settlement which benefits the players more than what is being proposed by the existing NHL negociating committee. I haven't read who is picking the owners or players who will be part of the meeting. My take of the 4 new owners to the table was that they were perceived as people more motivated to making a deal.

My take on this meeting is that the owners will put forward a 'nuanced' rationale for the position that the NHL negociating committee has pursued. Nuanced in the sense that it will not be as aggressive as perhaps they have heard from Bettman and Jacobs. The botttom line at the end of the meeting will be that the owners will leave no doubt that their group is united and that the players will have to move off their position in the negociations for there to be a resolution. Failure to do so will mean one more round of game cancellations and then a season ending call before X-Mass.

So no I do not see this meeting as a negociation. I see it as the NHL sending a message to the players directly and not thru the bogey man Mr. Bettman. How else could this be viewed? I highly doubt that this meeting has been requested by the NHL so that they can capitulate and sign a deal. Stranger things have happened I guess but I don't see it.
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#3792 Boudrias

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:18 AM

I saw that mentioned earlier but haven't heard any names. Although Landeskog left his team in Sweden for 'tax reasons'. And Ovechkin abruptly changed his tone just yesterday too - after months of saying he might decide to stay in Russia regardless, yesterday he gave an interview saying he misses the NHL and wants to return to Washington.

Sure Ovy wants back. One KHL team's cheques are bouncing and most important the grits aren't as good in Mother Russia. What a tool!
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#3793 poetica

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:15 AM

Boudrias, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree that attempting to send a message that your position is immoveable and therefore the other side will have to give even more (even though you've given nothing) is a form of negotiating, at least as the NHL seems to define it.
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#3794 SynysterGates

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:21 AM

Daniel really puts his neck out here.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=410919

The fans are really giving it to him pretty hard. Read the replies.

I have no idea who is telling the players they are so 'hard done' by. They can only think that way if they honestly believe they are 50% owners with the league and are ENTITLED to requirements with the people who actually own the thing.

I feel this was worth mentioning because even Daniel seems to think the players are 'giving up concessions' ..........from this point of view that they have RIGHTS over the league and thus have something to give up.

Fehr really has done a number on these guys heads. The average fans sees the players making PLENTY of money, and see franchises in continual states of near default. They cant GIVE AWAY the Coyotes franchise unless they relocate it. Owning an NHL team is no picnic.

And this is why a huge overwhelming number of fans are turning on the players as they do not see what they have to be so pissed off about in the first place. A 50 /50 deal is simply a fair deal for guys who dont even own any of the league.

I think the league is smart to seperate the players from the brainwashing. Bring them to the table and SHOW THEM the actual fiscal realities of what is going on.

Show them the deal they have on the table without Fehr there to tell em they need him to get them more. The owners have stated all along they will NOT move under any circumstances unless this new CBA is viable for all teams to become stable.

I have no idea why the players cant just take this deal and move on. Fire Fehr and get a hockey guy next time.


LOL whoever did the interview screwed up, they just changed it to Henrik hahahaha

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=410919

Edited by SynysterGates, 04 December 2012 - 10:23 AM.

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#3795 goalie13

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:24 AM

LOL whoever did the interview screwed up, they just changed it to Henrik hahahaha

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=410919


Common mistake.

Now... if they had to change it to Tim Thomas, that would be a screw up. :lol:
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#3796 thad

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:30 AM

Common mistake.

Now... if they had to change it to Tim Thomas, that would be a screw up. :lol:


I bet you that die hard republican is on the owners side lol
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#3797 elvis15

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:21 AM

Tweets at TSN are saying the PA was told as many players as want can attend today's meeting. Apparently there are about 25 in NYC and about 10 are expected to attend. At least that allows the PA to decide what they think is the right number.

Based on the NHLPA release, there's 18 players there for the meeting but it mentions nothing about who or how many will attend.

Eighteen NHLPA members have travelled to New York City for meetings on Tuesday, December 4th.

This afternoon, the players will meet a group of owners.

The 18 players present in New York today are: Craig Adams, David Backes, Michael Cammalleri, Sidney Crosby, B.J. Crombeen, Mathieu Darche, Shane Doan, Ron Hainsey, Shawn Horcoff, Jamal Mayers, Manny Malhotra, Andy McDonald, Ryan Miller, George Parros, Brad Richards, Martin St. Louis, Jonathan Toews and Kevin Westgarth.

The Player/Owner meeting is scheduled to take place at 2:00 PM ET at the Westin New York at Times Square.


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#3798 chisoxin12

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:24 PM

Daniel really puts his neck out here.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=410919

The fans are really giving it to him pretty hard. Read the replies.

I have no idea who is telling the players they are so 'hard done' by. They can only think that way if they honestly believe they are 50% owners with the league and are ENTITLED to requirements with the people who actually own the thing.

I feel this was worth mentioning because even Daniel seems to think the players are 'giving up concessions' ..........from this point of view that they have RIGHTS over the league and thus have something to give up.

Fehr really has done a number on these guys heads. The average fans sees the players making PLENTY of money, and see franchises in continual states of near default. They cant GIVE AWAY the Coyotes franchise unless they relocate it. Owning an NHL team is no picnic.

And this is why a huge overwhelming number of fans are turning on the players as they do not see what they have to be so pissed off about in the first place. A 50 /50 deal is simply a fair deal for guys who dont even own any of the league.

I think the league is smart to seperate the players from the brainwashing. Bring them to the table and SHOW THEM the actual fiscal realities of what is going on.

Show them the deal they have on the table without Fehr there to tell em they need him to get them more. The owners have stated all along they will NOT move under any circumstances unless this new CBA is viable for all teams to become stable.

I have no idea why the players cant just take this deal and move on. Fire Fehr and get a hockey guy next time.


Daniel and Henrick took a hell of a lot less money than they could have garnered from Burkie who was trying to poach them. At the time of their new contracts they were probably worth well into the $7M range. Yeah they make more than the person yakking about pulling in $35K, this is the entertainment industry folks. Vancouver can support these salaries, but by putting teams in markets that can't sustain anything near these types of contracts, Gary Bettman has painted himself into a corner. Growing the game, my **se. In five years, we'll be going through this bs again. Question is, are the sponsors in this for the long haul? Are the fans in those fantastic southern markets in this for the long haul? I know I'm not.

Maybe the media should impose a lockout on covering anything NHL related, then we'll see how long these *issing matches go on.

Edited by chisoxin12, 04 December 2012 - 12:26 PM.

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#3799 theminister

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:33 PM

Defenceman Kevin Bieksa stated that the players don't want to give up on the season, but the players wonder what the owner's agenda really is.
"That's the one thing we've kind of been puzzled by in this whole negotiation," he said. "When do they want to settle and what do they want to settle for? Is it just a money issue or the contracting rights and what are the reasons for them? Owners doing it face-to-face [Tuesday] with players on their team and to look those guys in the eye, it should be good."


Guaranteed contracts, Kev.

This whole charade has been an attempt to mitigate early season loses for approximately 10 teams in exchange for an all out attack on the validity of player contracts. The NHL doesn't think they are legally binding or worth the paper they are printed on.

The NHL wants to have it's cake and eat it too. They gambled on a home run but realize now that their best bet is a ground rule double. If they don't settle for that this week then the best they can hope for is a force out. (Baseball, people. Yes, it's come to that.)
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#3800 The-Impersonator

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:36 PM

That's the journalist alright. I just question his delivery, he states a meeting occurred last night with 'significant progress' and then pans over to Lucic to get an optimistic response. It's like confirming there is no scientific proof of a 'god' and then supporting the point with an atheist.. it's not like Lucic sat in on the meetings nor did Lucic confirm the meetings happened in that brief segment. Nothing definitive from this little skit.

I will of course remain optimistic, and hope the other indicators of progress remain valid.


This guy was the one that broke the Thomas taking a year off story and that Phil Kessel had Can%$R. He obviously is connected to someone within the Bruins.....
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#3801 Boudrias

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:01 PM

Boudrias, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree that attempting to send a message that your position is immoveable and therefore the other side will have to give even more (even though you've given nothing) is a form of negotiating, at least as the NHL seems to define it.

Hey, I admit I could be right out to lunch. They might even make a deal. All I am trying to do is understand what the owners are driving at. I don't know if anyone on here really knows what the back and forth has been. I don't think you are totally accurate about ownership not moving at all but I don't want to get into that debate again.

If my read is anywhere close to accurate then the players will have heard the owners position from not only the NHL negociating committee but also from a owners group. It kills the faint hope that players might have that ownership is divisible. It reinforces the existing NHL position. Right or wrong it is a smart tactic by the owners.
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#3802 sedated

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:16 PM

Fehr seems like a really poor choice. I'm sure the owners are to blame too, but there's just some stuff the players and Fehr have done and asked for that are just crazy. I lost interest in both sides when the players didn't want to split revenue 50/50, just like EVERY OTHER sports league does. Then after the end of each meeting both sides kind of take shots at one another. Super classy. I feel really bad for every player that isn't a superstar. Fehr and company really are basically just more or less fighting for that group of players that make the big money.
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#3803 WHL rocks

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:54 PM

Can't stop laughing at SPSN.com headline. "Crosby leads 18 players into NHL's CBA talks". This while barely having grade 12 under his belt. LOL.
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#3804 Lui's Knob

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:59 PM

Here's another tweet:

NewYorkRagers ‏@NYRagers
For all of our devoted #NHL #NYR followers...We are hearing GOOD news from #CBA meeting and that a 48 game season could start around Jan. 1!
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#3805 Kyosama

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:05 PM

Here's another tweet:

NewYorkRagers ‏@NYRagers
For all of our devoted #NHL #NYR followers...We are hearing GOOD news from #CBA meeting and that a 48 game season could start around Jan. 1!


Any idea on how reliable these guys are?
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#3806 Hobble

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:13 PM

If the NHL returns for Jan. 1st, I'd be ecstatic! New Years miracle!
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#3807 BCNeil

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:14 PM

Can't stop laughing at SPSN.com headline. "Crosby leads 18 players into NHL's CBA talks". This while barely having grade 12 under his belt. LOL.


I was thinking the same thing.....why load up this meeting with superstars? Why not players with some sort of business education?
Not speaking about Crosby per say, but lots of these guys that went through junior hockey, that basically knew they were NHL calibre......well even high school is a back burner get it done with type thing.

Send in some 4th liners with college degrees, there are players that graduated from ivy league schools with business degrees.
Sending in the super stars, just makes it look like its more for the media.

Edited by BCNeil, 04 December 2012 - 02:15 PM.

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#3808 WHL rocks

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:15 PM

Any idea on how reliable these guys are?


Can't find it on Twitter. Fake

Edited by WHL rocks, 04 December 2012 - 02:23 PM.

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#3809 BCNeil

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:20 PM

Any idea on how reliable these guys are?


Who are they? Why do they spell Rangers missing the "N"
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#3810 Squeak

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:21 PM

Well - they have been meeting for 2.5 hours.

I hope that is a good sign.

Edited by Squeak, 04 December 2012 - 02:21 PM.

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