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*Official* CBA Negotiations and Lockout Thread


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#3811 The-Impersonator

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:26 PM

Any idea on how reliable these guys are?


Check the spelling. Obviously didn't finish grade 4. @NYRagers ???
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#3812 The Bookie

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:33 PM

http://soundcloud.com/newyork-ragers

(at least we have music to listen to while we wait for real news)
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#3813 fwybwed

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:36 PM

Check the spelling. Obviously didn't finish grade 4. @NYRagers ???


Sigh...where do these people come from!?!? lol It's his personal Twitter handle...you act like it's not allowed...people rage in NY all the time maybe that's who he is a NY RAGER~!? Lol you may have got your grade 4 sir...but you did not get any common sense...
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#3814 theminister

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:47 PM

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Can't stop laughing at SPSN.com headline. "Crosby leads 18 players into NHL's CBA talks". This while barely having grade 12 under his belt. LOL.

I was thinking the same thing.....why load up this meeting with superstars? Why not players with some sort of business education?
Not speaking about Crosby per say, but lots of these guys that went through junior hockey, that basically knew they were NHL calibre......well even high school is a back burner get it done with type thing.

Send in some 4th liners with college degrees, there are players that graduated from ivy league schools with business degrees.
Sending in the super stars, just makes it look like its more for the media.


They are sending in many players with Ivy league degrees.

Just having less education doesn't preclude a person from being intelligent, articulate and savvy. Many successful people, and this is also true of many of the owners, do not and have not needed degrees to be successful. Life experience and a keen mind are a much greater asset than a piece of paper that doesn't affect how hard you have worked or been as creative as can be. I went to school with many people who excelled in an institution but can't think for themselves and it has not translated to their later life. By contrast, I have wealthy friends with no education who are as business savvy as any you'll meet and have built a life from scratch because they identified what they were good at.

Think what you want about his lack of education but if you think that Crosby's voice, when backed up by his fellow players and council, are meaningless or weak then you are naive. Accumulated by his 10+ years under intense media spotlight, grooming by the highest levels of hockey experienced people, and being aware that he is one of the top professionals in his chosen field, if you believe that is worthless in this negotiation then you lack a fundamental understanding of what 'qualified' really means.

Edited by theminister, 04 December 2012 - 02:58 PM.

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#3815 Dogbyte

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:14 PM

They are sending in many players with Ivy league degrees.

Just having less education doesn't preclude a person from being intelligent, articulate and savvy. Many successful people, and this is also true of many of the owners, do not and have not needed degrees to be successful. Life experience and a keen mind are a much greater asset than a piece of paper that doesn't affect how hard you have worked or been as creative as can be. I went to school with many people who excelled in an institution but can't think for themselves and it has not translated to their later life. By contrast, I have wealthy friends with no education who are as business savvy as any you'll meet and have built a life from scratch because they identified what they were good at.

Think what you want about his lack of education but if you think that Crosby's voice, when backed up by his fellow players and council, are meaningless or weak then you are naive. Accumulated by his 10+ years under intense media spotlight, grooming by the highest levels of hockey experienced people, and being aware that he is one of the top professionals in his chosen field, if you believe that is worthless in this negotiation then you lack a fundamental understanding of what 'qualified' really means.


Here here,

there are serveral college educated players on the list, a good collection actually if you ask me.
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"What players need is the right kind of strength and power. That includes learning to understand that leverage and positioning can be just as important as raw strength when it comes to winning battles in the game. It's more about timing and athleticism --and avoiding injury--than it is about how much you can bench press. I don't know how many times I've seen a guy with the physique of a defensive end line up a guy half his size, only to bounce off when he connects. Sure, there is room in the game for big guys who can throw their weight around. But for the most part, players are smart enough to see them coming--and strong enough to protect the puck when they arrive. There are trainers out there who know how to devlop hockey-specific strength--though a trainer can help only if a player follows the program. All too often, I've seen players sign up with the best trainer, but not show up for their workouts and never to reap the benefits."

 

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#3816 thad

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:26 PM

Sigh...where do these people come from!?!? lol It's his personal Twitter handle...you act like it's not allowed...people rage in NY all the time maybe that's who he is a NY RAGER~!? Lol you may have got your grade 4 sir...but you did not get any common sense...


lol i disagree with 99% of what you say.. but that was pretty funny +1
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#3817 elvis15

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:53 PM

Here here,

there are serveral college educated players on the list, a good collection actually if you ask me.

On top of that, minister rightly points out that not going to college or university prior to starting a pro hockey career doesn't mean the players are stupid. Many have gotten their degrees while already playing professionally, or finishing degrees they already started while they were developing. Schneider is a prime example, who was in college and then continued his studies after leaving the team to play in the AHL. Even if he hadn't, he would be an intelligent enough person to understand the issues if they were presented to him and be able to formulate an opinion, and others who haven't completed degrees could well fall into that category.

lol i disagree with 99% of what you say.. but that was pretty funny +1

Funny doesn't make it a legitimate source, especially when another poster couldn't even find it in Twitter. It hardly sounds like an official sports reporter or source where we'd have at least some reason to trust what they were saying, which is the original point.
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#3818 The Bookie

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:04 PM

Steve Jobs, Thomas Edison, Albert Einstein, Richard Branson, Harry Houdini, Benjamin Franklin, Ray Kroc, Charles Dickens, John Steinbeck

Just a few of the loser drop-outs from history. What a bunch of idiots!
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#3819 playboi19

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:12 PM

Steve Jobs, Thomas Edison, Albert Einstein, Richard Branson, Harry Houdini, Benjamin Franklin, Ray Kroc, Charles Dickens, John Steinbeck

Just a few of the loser drop-outs from history. What a bunch of idiots!

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#3820 canuck_trevor16

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:18 PM

I hope we get at least some kind of news from this player/owner only meeting
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#3821 Squeak

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:19 PM

We have passed the 4 hour threshold of the meetings....

Think they ordered dinner yet? (;))

Edited by Squeak, 04 December 2012 - 04:19 PM.

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#3822 Lui's Knob

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:46 PM

2 Tweets from Twitter:

"NHL Gary Bettman to speak to the media tomorrow at 1pm" (one would think if they came to an agreement it'd be announced ASAP not held tomorrow unless due to BoG meeting....)

Meanwhile Reporter Burton still stands by his story mentioning "further progress made"...FWIW

My sense is the drop dead date is January 15th. Will make this week and next integral otherwise they'll cancel more games.
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#3823 WHL rocks

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 05:10 PM

They are sending in many players with Ivy league degrees.

Just having less education doesn't preclude a person from being intelligent, articulate and savvy. Many successful people, and this is also true of many of the owners, do not and have not needed degrees to be successful. Life experience and a keen mind are a much greater asset than a piece of paper that doesn't affect how hard you have worked or been as creative as can be. I went to school with many people who excelled in an institution but can't think for themselves and it has not translated to their later life. By contrast, I have wealthy friends with no education who are as business savvy as any you'll meet and have built a life from scratch because they identified what they were good at.

Think what you want about his lack of education but if you think that Crosby's voice, when backed up by his fellow players and council, are meaningless or weak then you are naive. Accumulated by his 10+ years under intense media spotlight, grooming by the highest levels of hockey experienced people, and being aware that he is one of the top professionals in his chosen field, if you believe that is worthless in this negotiation then you lack a fundamental understanding of what 'qualified' really means.

Here here,

there are serveral college educated players on the list, a good collection actually if you ask me.


A couple of pages back in this thread we had a conversation on who should go to this meeting and why.

What I found funny was "Crosby leading 18 players into CBA meeting", not Crosby attending the meeting. I found it funny how Canadian media always find a way to make Crosby the headline.

As far as the meeting goes I'm 100% certain Crosby is NOT leading the players in this meeting. I'm 100% certain the leader would be one of the players who's been there thru out these negotiations and/or one of the ivy league educated players.

Edited by WHL rocks, 04 December 2012 - 05:15 PM.

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#3824 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 05:13 PM

@BroadStBull
#NHL and #NHLPA have been meeting for nearly 5 hours in NY. Remember, it's not the quantity of hrs., but the QUALITY.

Yup, I agree with this man.
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#3825 goalie13

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 05:27 PM

Does that make me greedy if I want to see quantity and quality at this point in the game?
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#3826 WHL rocks

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 05:39 PM

2 Tweets from Twitter:

"NHL Gary Bettman to speak to the media tomorrow at 1pm" (one would think if they came to an agreement it'd be announced ASAP not held tomorrow unless due to BoG meeting....)

Meanwhile Reporter Burton still stands by his story mentioning "further progress made"...FWIW

My sense is the drop dead date is January 15th. Will make this week and next integral otherwise they'll cancel more games.


Was just listening to Taylor and whomever on TEAM 1040. They said Dec. 15 might be the deadline. If no deal by Dec. 15 season will be canceled. If no deal in 2 days all games for Dec will be canceled.
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#3827 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 05:45 PM

So Bettman's planned announcement for tomorrow at 1:00 could potentially be to cancel the rest of December? On the 5th... seems a bit premature.
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#3828 canuck_trevor16

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 05:50 PM

It would be funny if the announcement is his resignation as commissioner.......we could dream could we?
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#3829 gmen81

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:10 PM

Apparently good news coming out of the meeting so far. I guess we wait and see. I'm gonna come out and say we see hockey in the NhL on Dec 15th.
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#3830 The Bookie

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:14 PM

Time for Bettman to reel in his catch
This fishing trip has gone on long enough, and now he’s in danger of capsizing
Read more: http://www.theprovin...l#ixzz2E8TPTcgL

Pressure has to be mounting on NHL commissioner Gary Bettman to finally bring his catch into the boat, even if it wasn’t the enormous marlin of concessions he was hoping for when he began this overextended fishing trip.
He’s already talked a whack of concessions out of the NHL players, even if the NHLPA’s last proposal is taken in its entirety and swallowed by the league. And we know that’s not going to happen.
So at any time he can call this thing off, quickly make a deal with the players, and the owners are still going to come back to the pier with a big catch with which to pose. Besides, there’s another fishing expedition planned at the end of any new CBA that might be signed, so even the hawks among the owners shouldn’t be too terribly discouraged.
They could always try the novel concept of managing their own business better and five, six or seven years down the road they can always take another stick to the pinata that the players have become since agreeing to salary caps back in 2005.
Whether anything immediately identifiable comes out of today’s board of governors meeting or not, you know there is a significant portion of the owners who want to play and Bettman is more than getting that feeling. How could he not? Everyone is sensing that their momentum is growing the longer this self-inflicted wound continues to ooze.
He’s already won by wringing considerable wealth from the players and it’s becoming increasingly clear to virtually everyone but the few people around him that carrying it on from here really doesn’t make a whole lot of long-term business sense.
The threat of losing the whole season is really quite hollow because it’s an absurd concept, so suicidal in nature as to fool nobody.
Some people are suggesting that the sponsors are beginning to exert pressure on the commissioner to get this thing done. You would think they should be but the fact they’ve said nothing publicly at this point is astonishing in its own right.
Others who claim to be insiders are suggesting Bettman and NHLPA head Donald Fehr are in constant contact, making progress and may be using the players’ meeting with the owners at a New York hotel Tuesday prior to today’s board meeting as a smokescreen so that they can communicate one on one without having to give a press conference afterwards.
That would give Bettman some encouraging news so that he might mollify those owners who would just as soon see him ousted as conduct their meeting.
The idea of quiet negotiations is a nice thought whether it’s true or not, but there’s no question most of the media seem to see this for what it’s always been, a measured period of time by which the owners would try to lever as much as possible out of the compliant, increasingly desperate athletes.
And even those types are sensing it’s time to wrap it up and put the product back on the shelves before people forget it. Even NBC sports is taking shots at Bettman, saying, “He comes from the NBA with its win-at-all-costs approach to labour negotiations” and making references to the egos of Fehr and Bettman.


So if they’re figuring something is not right, it really is time to knock it off. There’s not a soul in all the world that can see any wisdom in cancelling the entire season.
Four of the six owners at that Tuesday meeting likely want to play, even though hardliners like Boston Bruins owner Jeremy Jacobs and Murray Edwards of Calgary were there to police them to make sure they didn’t say anything the commissioner wouldn’t approve of.
Still, the two sides found enough to talk about to hang around much longer than anyone had the right to expect.
The next 20 days or fewer should produce a deal to get this exercise over with and get the game back in front of the paying customers some time in the new year.
Anything else will change history’s account of Bettman from the man who got hockey’s finances in order to the man who crushed the game.




(emphasis mine)
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#3831 Nas19

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:20 PM

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A couple of pages back in this thread we had a conversation on who should go to this meeting and why.

What I found funny was "Crosby leading 18 players into CBA meeting", not Crosby attending the meeting. I found it funny how Canadian media always find a way to make Crosby the headline.

As far as the meeting goes I'm 100% certain Crosby is NOT leading the players in this meeting. I'm 100% certain the leader would be one of the players who's been there thru out these negotiations and/or one of the ivy league educated players.


That's a pretty... bold thing to say.

Don't see how you can say that you are 100% sure of something you have no connection to what-so-ever.

Edited by Nas19, 04 December 2012 - 06:22 PM.

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#3832 elvis15

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:25 PM

A few tweets from tonight:

@Russostrib: Players/owners meeting in NY going on dinner break. They will meet again tonight. No word if Fehr/Bettman can dine w/groups
@DNFlyers: NHLPA spokesman says there is no guarantee that talks will continue tonight. "It's a possibility."
@JSportsnet: Hearing that progress was made in the meeting. Owners expect to continue talks tonight.
@JSportsnet: Hearing that Ron Burkle has been voice of reason today. Obviously, with Crosby in room it creates a interesting dynamic.
@aaronward_nhl: All indications are that they are going to meet again. If not tonight,then tomorrow.Positive feedback so far. #TSN


It does sound more optimistic than a quick meeting and someone from both sides talking the same old rhetoric after. We'll see if they did make progress and hopefully something constructive comes out of this into the BoG meeting tomorrow.

Edited by elvis15, 04 December 2012 - 06:27 PM.

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#3833 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:27 PM

@ChrisBottaNHL
Text from player source: "You were wrong. Wasn't a waste. Will know more by Thursday. Good meeting. I'm optimistic."
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#3834 thad

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:33 PM

Funny doesn't make it a legitimate source, especially when another poster couldn't even find it in Twitter. It hardly sounds like an official sports reporter or source where we'd have at least some reason to trust what they were saying, which is the original point.


My reply was to his smart ass comment about about the twitter handle and the other guy that made fun of his grammar may have passed grade 4, but doesn't have common sense. The actual twitter post I didn't find funny at all.
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#3835 gmen81

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:48 PM

After a bit of confusion on whether they would meet after dinner or not it now sounds like they are going to meet again tonight.

I'm starting to think that Steve Burton might be right after all.
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#3836 canucksnihilist

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:02 PM

thing is: for these negotiations you just need empathy to relate. to facilitate. while a lot of hockey players are blockheads, a lot of them have drive and would be good in business too... i wouldn't put too much stock in having an education, as these players have had viable other paths - so the normal prejudices don't necessarily apply (sorry, you'll have to find some other prejudices to base your thoughts on - bah, you'll never change, neither will anyone else...) just gotta relate, facilitate, contemplate, be irate, a common fate, your thoughts girate, make yourself wait, its all the same state
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#3837 poetica

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:14 PM

They might even make a deal.


Let's hope!

Or, let's hope that it's all a smokescreen (see story above) for Bettman and Fehr to get a deal done. As long as a deal is done!

All I am trying to do is understand what the owners are driving at. I don't know if anyone on here really knows what the back and forth has been. I don't think you are totally accurate about ownership not moving at all but I don't want to get into that debate again.


I don't think anyone really understands what the owners are driving at.

The owners have moved from their ridiculous initial offer, which was purposefully sculpted to give the owners a position to move from. Other than that, what have they given or offered? Even their "make whole" is limited, doesn't live up to its name and still only offers to live up to their signed contracts. They have offered more team revenue sharing but that's only because it helps the owners and the league.

If my read is anywhere close to accurate then the players will have heard the owners position from not only the NHL negociating committee but also from a owners group. It kills the faint hope that players might have that ownership is divisible. It reinforces the existing NHL position. Right or wrong it is a smart tactic by the owners.


I guess that's the part I just don't understand. Players have been involved from the beginning, so owners have been talking directly to small groups of players all along. The idea that Fehr isn't representing their ideas is nothing more than mud slinging. There's no proof he's done anything other than be open and upfront with the players. Saying that he isn't, despite the fact that players have been in on the meetings, have seen the NHL's offers and have had every opportunity to speak up if they don't believe Fehr was adequately representing the facts to players, is just a dishonest attempt to fracture the union.

Maybe that's where my leeriness with this "let the owners have their say directly to the players" idea comes from. I simply don't believe that the owners have behaved, as a collective represented by Bettman, honorably or honestly and I don't see this as an attempt to redeem themselves.

Edited by poetica, 04 December 2012 - 07:16 PM.

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#3838 poetica

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:17 PM

@aaronward_nhl: Hearing both sides discussed further means of 'giving'. Both are encouraged by the discussions so far. #TSN




@DarrenDreger: Told the owners and players intend on continuing meetings tonight.


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Every single one of them.

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#3839 The Bookie

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:21 PM

question - When's the last time in these negotiations Bettman scheduled a press conference? Did they do it for any of the blocks of cancellations, or the Winter Classic/All-Star games? All I remember is press releases and statements from Daly. The only media interviews with GB I can recall were him coming and going from the NHL's headquarters.
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#3840 canuck_trevor16

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:26 PM

I wonder what this "press conference" will be about.........a deal to be announced? cancel of games? resign? I think it is something big or why the commissioner would come out and talk to media about it?
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