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*Official* CBA Negotiations and Lockout Thread


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#4321 vancouverdepression

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 06:59 PM

NHL is dead. Save the Stanley Cup and start a new league where greed is not king, where the game is and everyone involved gets that,
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#4322 250Integra

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:01 PM

I have no idea. Without Fehr in the room they seemed to make huge progress. Bring Fehr back in, therefore Bettman has to come back in, and we right back to the egomania again.

I think the owners offer should be voted on. Its fair. The 7 year deals for teams that own the players is more than the owners wanted. The make whole was WAY more than the league wanted.

I think the 10 year offer is so that we dont have to do this again for at least 10 years. I have no idea why the players wont take the deal and just go back to work.

I think at this point the owners and players have a deal. They have to THROW IN THE EGO TOWELS and just sign the deal.


What deal? The table is empty.
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#4323 Drybone

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:01 PM

I think if the union agreed to the deal they would quickly put it back up on the table.

50/50 with 300 mil make whole

5/7 year deals

10 year CBA .

At this point, what are they still arguing about? Make the deal.

Edited by Drybone, 06 December 2012 - 07:03 PM.

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#4324 Rey

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:01 PM

It's amazing how different people on this board views the recent development. Lots of people and players are doubting Fehr after Bettman's speech. Very good speech mind you. HFboard majority is all for Owners and Bettman

People who blame Bettman, they had what? 6 Owners in a room with the players. The richest one of them gave up(Larry Tanenbaum) and left the conference and the guy is all known to Unions. It's why he's rich. Then you know something is wrong.

Edited by Rey, 06 December 2012 - 07:05 PM.

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#4325 poetica

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:02 PM

The players have been anything but smart during this negotiation, so it's not surprising that the NHL is taking their ball and going home. Donald Fehr is a parasite and has done nothing but muck this process up.


Based on what? Examples?

The truth is, the players have given and given and offered to give more. The owners started off demanding far more than was sane and then backed off their new demands slightly and called it them making concessions. Even their last statement was that their "movement" to not ask for NEW changes to multiple contracting rights were off the table because the players didn't just take the deal they were offered and do what they were told. And it was the owners who, yet again, refused mediation.

Fehr has a long, respected history in sports unions and helped create a union in the most stable pro sports league in North America. And Bettman's history? The most lost games in any professional league. The commissioner for the only sports league to lose an entire season due to a labor dispute. Oh, there's a parasite in the NHL all right, and his name is Gary.
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#4326 DeNiro

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:04 PM

The players = cattle

The league = the ranch

The owners = the ranchers


The fans = the bank

And we can stop financing this whole operation if we want to. Don't give another dime to these clowns, they're not worthy of it.
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#4327 WHL rocks

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:06 PM

I liked Bettman's presser. I got more info from it than I could imagine. He went into detail. He even confirmed whispers in the media that Bettman was under pressure to take make whole off the table a long time ago.

Make whole was offered in order to get a 82 game season in. When that fell apart owners were telling him to take it off the table. Clearly this can not be blamed on Bettman now. All you Bettman haters need a new bogeyman and it should be the owners. Apparently even the most moderate owners are very upset after this.
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#4328 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:06 PM

Based on what? Examples?

The truth is, the players have given and given and offered to give more. The owners started off demanding far more than was sane and then backed off their new demands slightly and called it them making concessions. Even their last statement was that their "movement" to not ask for NEW changes to multiple contracting rights were off the table because the players didn't just take the deal they were offered and do what they were told. And it was the owners who, yet again, refused mediation.

Fehr has a long, respected history in sports unions and helped create a union in the most stable pro sports league in North America. And Bettman's history? The most lost games in any professional league. The commissioner for the only sports league to lose an entire season due to a labor dispute. Oh, there's a parasite in the NHL all right, and his name is Gary.


You sir are brilliant.

These are things the common people look past, the fact that NHL has backed off demands, rather than actually giving anything.


The pure simple fact of this lockout, is that by the end of it the Owner's will have given nothing, and the players will have made massive concessions, both moneywise and otherwise. more so than they already have it seems.

That's the fact behind all of this.
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#4329 oldnews

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:07 PM

forget it.

Edited by oldnews, 06 December 2012 - 07:12 PM.

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#4330 WHL rocks

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:07 PM

Here are statements from the onwers who were in the room.

Statement from Ron Burkle:

The idea to put players and owners together in the same room was a refreshing idea. Commissioner Bettman should be thanked for proposing it and the Fehrs should be thanked for agreeing to it.

The players came with a strong desire to get back to playing hockey.
They were professional and did a good job of expressing their concerns and listening to ours.

We wanted to move quickly and decisively. We have all spent too much time without any real progress at the expense of our fans, our sponsor and the communities we serve. It was time to make bold moves and get a deal.
Many people think we got over our skis and they are probably right, but we wanted to do everything we could to get back to hockey now. We didn’t hold back.

We made substantial movement on our end quickly, but unfortunately that was not met with the same level of movement from the other side. The players asked us to be patient and keep working with them. It’s not what they do and they wanted us to know they were committed. We understood and appreciated their situation. We came back with an aggressive commitment to pensions which we felt was well received. We needed a response on key items that were important to us, but we were optimistic that we were down to very few issues. I believe a deal was within reach.

We were therefore surprised when the Fehrs made a unilateral and “non-negotiable” decision – which is their right, to end the player/owner process that has moved us farther in two days than we moved at any time in the past months.

I want to thank the players involved for their hard work as we tried to reach a deal.

I hope that going backwards does not prevent a deal.

Statement from Mark Chipman:

“I’d like to thank the NHL for giving me the opportunity to participate in this very important process.

I came here optimistic that we could find a solution. That sense of optimism grew after our first few sessions, including the small group discussions late last night.

Regrettably, we have been unable to close the divide on some critical issues that we feel are essential to the immediate and long-term health of our game.

While I sense there are some members of the players association that understand our perspective on these issues, clearly there are many that don’t.

I am deeply disappointed that we were unable to bring this extremely unfortunate situation to a successful conclusion and I wish to apologize to our fans and sponsors for letting them down.”

Statement from Larry Tanenbaum:

“I was pleased to be asked to join the Player/Owner negotiation sessions. I had hoped that my perspective both as a businessman and as one of the owners of the Toronto Maple Leafs would be helpful to the process.
Like all other teams, this work stoppage has hurt our fans, our employees and our business. Neither the owners nor the players will ever recover the losses incurred with this work stoppage.

I understand how important it is to have a strong league and 30 healthy teams. I must admit that I was shocked at how things have played out over the last 48 hours. The sessions on Tuesday felt cooperative with an air of goodwill. I was optimistic and conveyed my optimism to the Board of Governors at our Wednesday meeting. However, when we reconvened with the players on Wednesday afternoon, it was like someone had thrown a switch.
The atmosphere had completely changed. Nevertheless, the owners tried to push forward and made a number of concessions and proposals, which were not well-received. I question whether the union is interested in making an agreement.

I am very disappointed and disillusioned. Had I not experienced this process myself, I might not have believed it. Like all hockey fans, I am hopeful this situation can be resolved as soon as possible. I miss our game.”

Statement from Jeff Vinik:


“After working this week with our players toward what we hoped would be a new agreement, owners presented a proposal we believed would benefit those great players, ownership, and, ultimately, our fans for many years to come. While trust was built and progress was made along the way, unfortunately, our proposal was rejected by the Union's leadership. My love for the game is only superseded by my commitment to our fans and I hold out hope we can soon join with our players and return the game back to its rightful place on the ice.”


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#4331 oldnews

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:09 PM

chisoxin12:

"I'm gonna watch me some NFL. Bye for now! Oh, and thanks Gary, great job controlling those greedy bas*ard owners."

The Seahawks are lookin' damn fine!

Edited by oldnews, 06 December 2012 - 07:10 PM.

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#4332 DeNiro

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:10 PM

I liked Bettman's presser. I got more info from it than I could imagine. He went into detail. He even confirmed whispers in the media that Bettman was under pressure to take make whole off the table a long time ago.

Make whole was offered in order to get a 82 game season in. When that fell apart owners were telling him to take it off the table. Clearly this can not be blamed on Bettman now. All you Bettman haters need a new bogeyman and it should be the owners. Apparently even the most moderate owners are very upset after this.


You have to take everything he said with a grain of salt. Alt of it was likely BS.

When you think about the whole make whole thing, it's kind of silly. Basically the players are being offered money that was already promise to them, in order to get concessions from them. That doesn't sound very fair when you think about it does it?

Why both sides would be so hung up on contract lengths is beyond me though. Is this really what they're going to throw away an entire season based one?

The players are naive if they think the deal is going to get any better next fall.
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#4333 frazzY

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:11 PM

Fehr was a cancer in the mlb and now hes spreading it to the NHL!

They should just take the offer! Your not football or soccer players
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#4334 nowhereman

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:12 PM

Based on what? Examples?

A deal was within reach and the PA decided to change the goalposts, at the last minute. When you piss off straight-shooting moderates like Tanenbaum and Burkle, you're doing something pretty backhanded. They've been screwing around for months, stalling on proposals, and acting very, VERY unprofessional. Not to mention, they keep insulting the intelligence of the NHL/owners by submitting the same damn de-linked "50/50" split.

They shouldn't have had the massive shares in revenue that they did to begin with. The Fehr bothers blather on about how the players "lost the last CBA", even though they made off like gangbusters. The NHL is trying to right the ship.
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#4335 frazzY

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:13 PM

Double post

Edited by frazzY, 06 December 2012 - 07:13 PM.

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#4336 nowhereman

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:16 PM

David Pagnotta ‏@TheFourthPeriod
Whoa. RT @reporterchris Hainsey says NHL told players last night that bringing Don Fehr back into the room was potentially "a deal-breaker"

https://twitter.com/....68882210385920
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#4337 boxiebrown

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:18 PM

Fehr was a cancer in the mlb and now hes spreading it to the NHL!

They should just take the offer! Your not football or soccer players


MLB has had almost 20 years of labour peace and booming revenues and salaries under the system Fehr fought for. The idea that he screwed up MLB is just categorically wrong.
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#4338 DeNiro

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:19 PM

A deal was within reach and the PA decided to change the goalposts, at the last minute. When you piss off straight-shooting moderates like Tanenbaum and Burkle, you're doing something pretty backhanded. They've been screwing around for months, stalling on proposals, and acting very, VERY unprofessional. Not to mention, they keep insulting the intelligence of the NHL/owners by submitting the same damn de-linked "50/50" split.

They shouldn't have had the massive shares in revenue that they did to begin with. The Fehr bothers blather on about how the players "lost the last CBA", even though they made off like gangbusters. The NHL is trying to right the ship.


This is what happens when you get a bunch of athletes negotiating with professional businessman. They wouldn't know the first thing about running an actual business, even if they have their fancy business degrees.

That's why they hired Fehr. The problem is he seems to be more interested in glorifying his own ego and looking like he can take on the whole NHL. And that's gonna cost these gullible players alot of money.

He has convinced them that it's a bad deal, and blinded them to the fact that he's just a bad negotiator.

Edited by DeNiro, 06 December 2012 - 07:21 PM.

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#4339 boxiebrown

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:19 PM

A deal was within reach and the PA decided to change the goalposts, at the last minute. When you piss off straight-shooting moderates like Tanenbaum and Burkle, you're doing something pretty backhanded. They've been screwing around for months, stalling on proposals, and acting very, VERY unprofessional. Not to mention, they keep insulting the intelligence of the NHL/owners by submitting the same damn de-linked "50/50" split.

They shouldn't have had the massive shares in revenue that they did to begin with. The Fehr bothers blather on about how the players "lost the last CBA", even though they made off like gangbusters. The NHL is trying to right the ship.


LOL! The owners have done far better than the players under this system.
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#4340 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:20 PM

The question now is if the fans are prepared to lockout the NHL

I know i am.


I have no desire to support this league anymore. I might look on from the outskirts online, but i'm done paying for anything NHL. That includes all tv-related revenue as well.

Screw this league.
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#4341 Dogbyte

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:21 PM

The players = cattle

The league = the ranch

The owners = the ranchers


The fans = grass / hay

And we can stop financing this whole operation if we want to. Don't give another dime to these clowns, they're not worthy of it.


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#4342 Canuck or Die

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:22 PM

What a gong show.
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#4343 canuckbeliever

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:23 PM

David Pagnotta ‏@TheFourthPeriod
Whoa. RT @reporterchris Hainsey says NHL told players last night that bringing Don Fehr back into the room was potentially "a deal-breaker"

https://twitter.com/....68882210385920



The NHL is making a pointed effort to portray Fehr as the bad guy. Apparently he walked around and told the NHL today its over. If f that is what the owners did last night I hope Fehr unleashes himself as he did in the MLB. They poked the bear with those comments last night and I can understand why Fehr is mad.
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#4344 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:24 PM

I have no idea. Without Fehr in the room they seemed to make huge progress. Bring Fehr back in, therefore Bettman has to come back in, and we right back to the egomania again.

I think the owners offer should be voted on. Its fair. The 7 year deals for teams that own the players is more than the owners wanted. The make whole was WAY more than the league wanted.

I think the 10 year offer is so that we dont have to do this again for at least 10 years. I have no idea why the players wont take the deal and just go back to work.

I think at this point the owners and players have a deal. They have to THROW IN THE EGO TOWELS and just sign the deal.


I never thought I'd say this but I more or less agree with you. I think the players missed a good chance at a reasonable CBA. Contract limit and variance is not worth the battle. A lengthier CBA means less conflict down the road, I can't see why anyone would want to do this again. And then the 393m down to 300m is about as good as it's going to get. The push back from the players is getting harder and harder to support.

That being said, having watched both press conferences the disparity between the two was difficult to restrain myself. Fehr got up, and spoke about the positives, believing they were 'close'. Then Bettman went on stage and through out any glimpse of progress that may have been made. He represented the maybe 3 owners that share his extreme perspective, and felt it necessary to visibly portray his outrage. Daly saying contract limit is 'the hill they will die on', I mean come on - do we need the dramatics?

Bottom line is the players missed out on a reasonable CBA. I will still support the players but having received their desired concessions from the owners, namely: 1. 'make whole' increase 2. contract rights protected (RFA/ELC/Arbitration) 3. pension. Why the players thought they should push beyond these 3 significant developments puzzles me. That being said, I don't think the owners should have responded with such a resounding 'no' especially in a negotiation process.
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#4345 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:27 PM

A deal was within reach and the PA decided to change the goalposts, at the last minute. When you piss off straight-shooting moderates like Tanenbaum and Burkle, you're doing something pretty backhanded. They've been screwing around for months, stalling on proposals, and acting very, VERY unprofessional. Not to mention, they keep insulting the intelligence of the NHL/owners by submitting the same damn de-linked "50/50" split.

They shouldn't have had the massive shares in revenue that they did to begin with. The Fehr bothers blather on about how the players "lost the last CBA", even though they made off like gangbusters. The NHL is trying to right the ship.


Hmm sounds like alot of things in your post inquate to the NHL just as much if not more than they do to the NHLPA.

First off the NHL starts things off with a rediculouis, insane, insulting offer. It was insulting to the players intelligence. They decline a deal with significant concessions in 10 Minutes. They come out and continuously spin things.

The simple fact with this CBA and the last CBA is that the NHL never gave up anything, they continue to take and take and take that's what this entire lockout is about, it's not about revenue sharing, and helping out weak franchises like it should be, it is about taking money and contracting rights away from the players. Really think long and hard about that, because that's what it is about.

And you think they didn't lose the last CBA yet they lost over 20% of there revenue, and an added salary cap. The only thing they got that could even be looked at as some sort of a "win" is the contracting issue's, which the NHL is demanding back this time around, no surprise really. And you can say it was great for the players because there average salary increased or whatever, which is true, but look at it from the other side, imagine how much more money the owner's got with the pie increasing like it did, it was an equal win in that sense.


Another thing you should realize is that it's not the Fehr's job to grow the game or anything, his loyalties to the spot of hockey are completely irrelevant, his job is to get the best deal possible for the players. To try to hold the demands back as much as possible.

The NHL thinks they made concessions, which they haven't at all, a concession is giving up something, all they have done is move off of demands, that's not giving back, with the agreement over the money there is today, the owners aren't giving any money, there just collecting less than they demanded, even though what they will get will be huge.

That's not a loss, that's whining over not getting your way.
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#4346 WHL rocks

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:28 PM

A deal was within reach and the PA decided to change the goalposts, at the last minute. When you piss off straight-shooting moderates like Tanenbaum and Burkle, you're doing something pretty backhanded. They've been screwing around for months, stalling on proposals, and acting very, VERY unprofessional. Not to mention, they keep insulting the intelligence of the NHL/owners by submitting the same damn de-linked "50/50" split.

They shouldn't have had the massive shares in revenue that they did to begin with. The Fehr bothers blather on about how the players "lost the last CBA", even though they made off like gangbusters. The NHL is trying to right the ship.


agreed. PA took what the NHL gave over the past 2 days put it in his pocket and stuck out his hand for more. While NHL had made clear this was a package deal. These guys aren't billionaires for no reason, they won't take this lightly. Those on PA side can't blame this on Bettman or hard liners like Jacobs any more.

The PA has alienated the doves on the owners side. Tannenbaum made an very telling statement. He said if he wasn't in the room himself he'd have a hard time believing what happened and how things unfolded. Clearly pissed.
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#4347 RAMBUTANS

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:29 PM

The players = cattle

The league = the ranch

The owners = the ranchers


The fans = the bank

And we can stop financing this whole operation if we want to. Don't give another dime to these clowns, they're not worthy of it.


It won't work. I tried it with my thread.
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#4348 DeNiro

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:30 PM


That's what we are in the minds of the NHL.

There are fans who will eat up the NHL product up no matter what. But if there are enough fans that band together and hurt the NHL financially, maybe it will wake them up.
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#4349 rampage

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:36 PM

really? the game tonight is terrible.


A game with Peyton Manning in it is watching greatness.
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#4350 Dogbyte

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:39 PM

Fehr was a cancer in the mlb and now hes spreading it to the NHL!

They should just take the offer! Your not football or soccer players


How do you mean?
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