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*Official* CBA Negotiations and Lockout Thread


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#4531 J.R.

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:05 PM

From reading this thread it seems to me that Jah is one of the few posters who actually gets what's going on. Keep on posting so I have something worth reading Jah :P
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#4532 canuckbeliever

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:12 PM

Yeah and the Players and their agents are all so innocent and have nothing to do with a market team trying to stay competative...maybe this is one of the reason for the lockout and why the players are neglecting to sign a CBA...lol educate yourself.


The irony in you telling someone else to educate themselves it that you yourself isnt educated. The NHL keeps wanting more and more and more. The players last time go tthe worst possible deal imaginable and were able to make more money because of 2 dumb mistakes by the NHL

1) The NHL set a soft cap where it would be tied directly to the amount of revenue made by the league
2) They did not account for backloaded deals

This is all on the NHL. They broke the union apart and got everything they wanted. The problem this time around is the NHLPA is saying screw you guys, we are not going to listen every demand of yours rather we are going to make sure we get a deal that makes sense for us and gives us as much advantage as we can possibly attain. Do you blame the PA for this mentality? As a fan it sucks buty objectively from a business perspective I really can not blame them.

They are doing what is in there best interest just as the owners do what is in there best interest.

As Paul Bisonnette said it best when the lockout originally started "it isnt about the fans".

The problem is too many fans are way to naive and immature to recognize the fact it isnt about them. This is a business deal involving a business and the union that represents its employees. The employees are trying to take a stand and rightfully so considering all that happend last time

Edited by canuckbeliever, 07 December 2012 - 12:12 PM.

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#4533 Shift-4

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:13 PM

From reading this thread it seems to me that Jah is one of the few posters who actually gets what's going on. Keep on posting so I have something worth reading Jah :P


Hey........I understood there was no reason to be optimistic yesterday but no one was willing to listen :rolleyes:
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#4534 canuckbeliever

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:14 PM

If the players weren't greedy, they would forget about the make whole aspect in order to get better contracting rights and maybe a shorter CBA.

At this rate they're going to lose at least one year of their contracts anyways. Why not just take a pay cut in order to get a better deal for the union. They're gonna lose that money anyways...


The irony in you calling the players greedy is that in your hypothetical non make whoel scenario the NHL is not honouring its word. Not sure how want someone to honour there word is "greedy".
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#4535 poetica

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:24 PM

PLAYERS SHOW FRUSTRATION WITH BREAKDOWN IN NHL LABOUR TALKS

A day after the National Hockey League broke off collective bargaining talks with the NHL Players' Association on Thursday night, locked out NHL players took to Twitter and other media sources to express their frustration.

"It really seems that since the start of the lockout and negotiation that the partnership we had talked about coming out of the last lockout has really been thrown aside," Montreal Canadiens forward Erik Cole told The Montreal Gazette. "We're here to grow the game of hockey and what they're doing with this lockout is doing anything but grow the game.

"If you want to know when this lockout will end, only (the owners) know."

Fellow Canadiens player Brandon Prust tweeted his reaction to the recent turn of events. "I'm done caring," he wrote. "We keep moving and giving...This 1 way street sucks."

Florida Panthers forward Scottie Upshall tweeted that the recent setback in negotiations has only solidified the players' resolve, saying, "Plain and simple these owners think they can break us apart. GOOD LUCK! We r stronger than we've ever been and r behind Fehr %100.

"There's no pressure yet on the owners to lose this year, that's why they still treat us like Cattle. They'll need a partner come January."

San Jose Sharks forward Logan Couture also voiced his support for union head Don Fehr.

"100 percent in agreement with our @nhlpa leader for all of (sic) you asking," he said.

Washington Capitals forward Jason Chimera is discouraged that talks broke down with a possible deal in the offing. "It's pretty disappointing for hockey in general," said Chimera. "To be that close and just stop talking is absurd."

The work stoppage, which began Sept. 16, has already forced the cancellation of regular season games through Dec. 14, as well as the Winter Classic and All-Star Weekend.


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#4536 canuckbeliever

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:24 PM

I agree but they will argue injuries are why they want the guaranteed contract. Otherwise they will not put themselves in danger to make plays and the game would suffer.

It's a bunch of BS from guys who have never had to actually work a real job. Just like spoiled rich kids, they're everywhere.


I am going to explain to you how stupid you sound when you call these guys greedy rich kids.


Most of them have been playing hockey since 7 or 8 and all of them have been putting tremendous effort to attain there dream of playing in the NHL. While you were going to school and doing jack squat, these kids were practicsing in ice rinks non stop to attain a dream. It is often said that hockey players are among the most dedicated athletes in the world. Majority of hockey players are lifting weights by 13 years of age. Prior to getting to junior developmental leagues, they practiced 4-5 times a week and had to do everything within there capabilities to stand out and become better players. They played in junior developmental leagues such as the CHL/etc where they were away from there family for 6-7 months of the year and had to balance school with this dream to play in the NHL. Oh, they also didnt get paid minus minor stipends for this. If they were lucky enough they got drafted into the NHL. They then spent on average 3-4 years playing pro hockey in lower leagues before finally getting a break and making the NHL. In the pro leagues, they spent 6-7 months away from family (more if you made the playoffs) with long gruelling bus rides and occasional air travel.

When they made it to the NHL they are expected to be the best they can be and have insane pressure on them. They also have to make sure they are a cut above other guys so that they can secure there roster spot on a team and hopefully contribute positively to there team. Majority of hockey players have 1 month off and then they start training again preparing for the next hockey season.

Do not call them spoiled rich kids. It makes you sound ignorant and very stupid. These individuals have put in tremendous effort to ge tto where they are and have worked harder than you or I can ever imagine.
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#4537 fwybwed

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:24 PM

The irony in you telling someone else to educate themselves it that you yourself isnt educated. The NHL keeps wanting more and more and more. The players last time go tthe worst possible deal imaginable and were able to make more money because of 2 dumb mistakes by the NHL

1) The NHL set a soft cap where it would be tied directly to the amount of revenue made by the league
2) They did not account for backloaded deals

This is all on the NHL. They broke the union apart and got everything they wanted. The problem this time around is the NHLPA is saying screw you guys, we are not going to listen every demand of yours rather we are going to make sure we get a deal that makes sense for us and gives us as much advantage as we can possibly attain. Do you blame the PA for this mentality? As a fan it sucks buty objectively from a business perspective I really can not blame them.

They are doing what is in there best interest just as the owners do what is in there best interest.

As Paul Bisonnette said it best when the lockout originally started "it isnt about the fans".

The problem is too many fans are way to naive and immature to recognize the fact it isnt about them. This is a business deal involving  a business and the union that represents its employees. The employees are trying to take a stand and rightfully so considering all that happend last time


And you missed the part where Bettman himself stated that he made a mistake...thus he is trying to fix it. Players love it but the owners want it changed...lol nice try though
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#4538 canuckbeliever

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:29 PM

And you missed the part where Bettman himself stated that he made a mistake...thus he is trying to fix it. Players love it but the owners want it changed...lol nice try though


Bettman said that in 04 as well about prior CBA negotiations. As Dan Russel said it best, at what point do we stop trusting Bettman? He consistently tells the players he needs this to fix the game and that to fix the game yet it never ends.



Your argument is so absurd it is unfathomable

Edited by canuckbeliever, 07 December 2012 - 12:34 PM.

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#4539 oldnews

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:33 PM

This is from a blogger on hockeybuzz(Paul McCann),,,may not like ek but it pretty much sums up how I feel,,,

"I have to admit. I bought into the optimism, I bought in to the momentum. Now I look at the wreckage from last night and wonder why. Especially when I start hearing how and why this whole thing blew apart.

Let me start by saying, I have tried my best to keep to the middle here. As someone that walks in the business world, I understand the owners side in this dispute… as someone that also walks in the entertainment world the players points in this make sense as well. What follows is not a rip on the players, I know that the players want what’s best for the game, the problem is, they are being led by a person that had to “learn the game” and while he may have learned it... he doesn't understand it. This mess… this I lay at the feet of one person.

Donald Fehr.

Donald Fehr ruined one sport that I used to be incredibly passionate about. He can claim the Marvin Miller mantel… but this man is no Martin Miller, never has been, never will be. When the MLBPA struck, causing the loss of the World Series in ’94, I was basically done as a baseball fan. It was the end of season strike trying to use the Series as a bargaining chip. That’s why it is incredibly disingenuous to lay the lockout off solely on the owners. History shows that, if the NHL started the season without a CBA, you could’ve counted on a strike in March to put the playoffs at risk. I know that as well as I know my own name.

What crystallized all of this in my mind was a tweet from respected hockey writer, Adrian Dater. Now, if you have been following Adrian on Twitter… he is absolutely not a shill for either side of this dispute. He has been critical of both sides and is a highly respected journalist. If anything, he has been more supportive of the players side.

His tweet from last night…

From deep inside players side: "We were ready to play again. But Don came in (Wed.) and told us we could get more and to hold out"


“We could get more and to hold out” Unbe-frickin’-lievable.

Dater’s take on this is that there is a split developing in the player's ranks, he characterized the player who made the comment he tweeted out last night as a “depth player.” The other key piece of the information Adrian sent out was that “top players still in Fehr camp.” This does make a little sense, considering that the PA is fighting hard for something that doesn’t happen very often… the beyond five year contract. Who gets those contracts? It certainly isn’t the “depth player.” Adrian wrote a great blog on this, here's the link.

The reality is this, Donald Fehr’s membership did an incredible job in doing his job, creating the bridge, opening the communication and moving the process along. Does anyone else find it interesting that as soon as Fehr came back into the room (upon his insistence)the process blew apart?

The attitude of “we could get more” is the biggest problem on both sides of this issue. The constantly shifting priorities (if true) put forth by the NHLPA is designed to drive frustration and is not bargaining in good faith. Did anyone else hear how important pensions were prior to Wednesday? Yeah, me neither. "We could get more" by losing more games and more time and more pay... flat out silly.

The “Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm” appearance in Donald Fehr’s first press conference last night was cold, calculated, manipulative and disgusting. It was also a stupid move on his part. Further proof in my mind that Donald Fehr doesn’t give a (expletive) about the game that we love. At least NHL commissioner Gary Bettman showed some emotion, some passion about our game in his press conference last night… and by the way, for those haters, Bettman understood that he needed to stay out of the room in order to get a deal, Fehr hasn’t learned that lesson yet.

The players want to play, that is undeniable. The owners want to get games on the ice that is also undeniable. The only one who doesn’t want a deal here seems to be Donald Fehr, and he continues to play upon the emotions of his charges. He plays the “owners don’t respect you” card with skill and relish. Fehr understands the mindset of the athlete and is now playing on it for all it is worth. I can imagine Fehr doing his best Reg Dunlap impersonation in a PA conference call… “those owners challenged the Cheifs… errrr… union!” The only problem with this strategy now is that it is exposed. Donald Fehr has now pissed off the moderate owners in this league. How does that help the players get more?

The endgame is now solidly underway. I know that... The shills are out in force on Twitter, blathering on depending on their agenda, casting blame depending on their bias but one thing is true. This is all part of the dirty little game being played out in front of TSN’s cameras, all part of the filthy underside of business negotiations. This process does undermine the fan’s belief and passion for the league, a necessary evil that should never have gotten to this point.

We like the sausage, we just don’t like seeing it made."


Wow - what an original and incisive take on things - Eklund hath opened mine eyes.

He understands the owners, the players are making sense: it's just Fehr - it's all his fault...he doesn't understand the game as Eklund does...

Predictable, reductive, utterly simplistic.

Surprise - hockey's least credible source and most prolific creator of unsubstantiated rumours, has swallowed the NHL's dog and pony show hook line and sinker.

Edited by oldnews, 07 December 2012 - 01:02 PM.

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#4540 fwybwed

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:54 PM

Bettman said that in 04 as well about prior CBA negotiations. As Dan Russel said it best, at what point do we stop trusting Bettman? He consistently tells the players he needs this to fix the game and that to fix the game yet it never ends.



Your argument is so absurd it is unfathomable


Distrust/trust is not a word used in negotiation...Im not arguing any point except for the fact that the CBA needing fixing hence the current lockout.. you are just another Bettman basher with no knowledge except to player hug all aspect of the CBA in favour of your fav jock. Bettman showed the fan and players that he can step away from the table and have owners and players mull it over amongst themselves it was going good very optimistic in the first day til day 2 where Fehr asked them to hold out. Then day 3 the NHLPA stated that the current process was over after asking for mediators to be recalled....why would this happen if they were so close...I'll leave you to swoon over Crosby's picture...lol
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#4541 Drybone

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:55 PM

C'mon man what is this grade 4.

Give a credible link to your claims and we can talk. Or just admit you made it up.

I've been following these CBA negotiations pretty damn close. I don't recall Bettman pulling make whole off the table until today. If you have proof of this please provide me with link.

I won't be responding to you anymore unless you show me specific and credible proof of your claims of Bettman pulling every offer off the table prior to today.

And btw, you attempting to belittle me doesn't bother me. Just shows your lack of maturity. You made claims you can't back up and now you are frustrated.


You are wasting your time. The union had a YEAR AND A HALF to 'play while negotiating' ................and it did nothing . These kids dont care what the reality is. They just pick out the bad points they dont like and ignore the rest.

50/50 then 300 mil make whole. 5/7 year contracts, no raise in UFA age nor RFA fix no waivers fix. All of this is WAY more than I thought the owners would ever give into. 10 year CBA so we dont have to go thru this again anytime soon.

How does the union NOT take this deal??? What the hell else can they possibly want? Only 2% of the players get contracts longer than 5 years. Only 5% of the players get contracts that even affect the salary cap.

How does the union honestly say its standing up for ALL its members when it insults the intelligence to suggest the other 95% need to hold out for more goodies than that deal gives. Its ridiculous.

Enough is enough.

The owners need to press the union to hold a vote on the NHLs latest proposal. There is NO DOUBT it will pass if they put it to a vote. The top 2% and Fehr wont allow it to go to a vote and they need to get it to a vote. They are supposed to let the members decide. Not Fehr and the top 2%
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#4542 poetica

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:17 PM

Sorry I'm a little late. Just catching up on the thread now.


I dont see why Don Fehr needed to be there though? Couldnt they figure it out with his bro


Maybe because it was only fair for them to have their legal representative and negotiation expert in the room while working out a deal they hoped to be able to present to the union members for a vote when the NHL had 2 of their regular negotiating committee, including the chairman of their BOG, in the room the whole time.

The real question is, if the owners wanted to get a deal done why derail the process just because players wanted their union leader involved before a final proposal to be taken to the members was made? Not liking a guy seems like a really silly thing to worry about. Even if Fehr were the jerk some make him out to be, these titans of industry should be able to handle him as they have most likely dealt with far worse before. So, are they really that incompetent as businessmen or is there perhaps another reason they would want to work towards an actual deal only with players not trained in negotiation or in any way (as far as we know) empowered to make a deal on behalf of their union? No way that passed the smell test.

Really? Bettman took every offer he's given off the table?? I wasn't aware of this. Please provide link to back up you claim.


"Every offer" might be slight hyperbole, but not by much.

From an October 26 article: "If the next proposal the NHL extended them was to their liking, Fehr would sign it. One suspects that if the offer the league "pulled off the table" yesterday was any good at all, they would have signed it and we'd be in training camp right now." (Source: http://sports.yahoo....18740--nhl.html)

Bettman (about September 12 offer): "We made clear this proposal was intended to lead to a deal before the weekend and, if in fact a deal was not achievable, what we proposed would be off the table. We were quite clear on that." (Source: http://www.camroseca...eet-in-new-york)

Regarding the NHL's last offer: "The offer he said was now off the table." (Source: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=411136)

As far as me thinking "that offer is gone", I'm not sure where you pulled that out of. I'm on record on this thread saying Bettman will put the offer back on table if players asked for and wanted to vote on it. So again I'm not sure where you got that from. Google it, you won't find me saying it.


An article I quoted earlier included a player source who said the NHL never gave the PA a complete proposal they could put up for a vote. No union anywhere votes on partial proposals, scraps of papers, or memos detailing individual clauses. Unions need an entire proposal to put up for vote. If it's true the NHL didn't give them a formal, complete proposal, the union not voting on it is entirely the NHL's fault.
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#4543 Drybone

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:25 PM

Sorry I'm a little late. Just catching up on the thread now.




Maybe because it was only fair for them to have their legal representative and negotiation expert in the room while working out a deal they hoped to be able to present to the union members for a vote when the NHL had 2 of their regular negotiating committee, including the chairman of their BOG, in the room the whole time.

The real question is, if the owners wanted to get a deal done why derail the process just because players wanted their union leader involved before a final proposal to be taken to the members was made? Not liking a guy seems like a really silly thing to worry about. Even if Fehr were the jerk some make him out to be, these titans of industry should be able to handle him as they have most likely dealt with far worse before. So, are they really that incompetent as businessmen or is there perhaps another reason they would want to work towards an actual deal only with players not trained in negotiation or in any way (as far as we know) empowered to make a deal on behalf of their union? No way that passed the smell test.



"Every offer" might be slight hyperbole, but not by much.

From an October 26 article: "If the next proposal the NHL extended them was to their liking, Fehr would sign it. One suspects that if the offer the league "pulled off the table" yesterday was any good at all, they would have signed it and we'd be in training camp right now." (Source: http://sports.yahoo....18740--nhl.html)

Bettman (about September 12 offer): "We made clear this proposal was intended to lead to a deal before the weekend and, if in fact a deal was not achievable, what we proposed would be off the table. We were quite clear on that." (Source: http://www.camroseca...eet-in-new-york)

Regarding the NHL's last offer: "The offer he said was now off the table." (Source: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=411136)



An article I quoted earlier included a player source who said the NHL never gave the PA a complete proposal they could put up for a vote. No union anywhere votes on partial proposals, scraps of papers, or memos detailing individual clauses. Unions need an entire proposal to put up for vote. If it's true the NHL didn't give them a formal, complete proposal, the union not voting on it is entirely the NHL's fault.


Its duly noted that you were late. Dont let it happen again. You are so vitally important to the NHL negotiations and we need to be updated to your position at all times.

The rest of us are mere fans who have no say in all of this so our opinions are simply a point of view.

The actual facts at hand are not complicated. The NHL tabled an agreement that was informal. However, Fehr knew its contents and if he had any intention of allowing it for vote, he could have easily asked the NHL for a formal draft of its entirety to take to their membership. They were in negotiations. They dont bring every proposal in legal form until its agreed upon by the leadership.

Even though Bettman claims its all off the table now, if the union moves quickly to reconsider it , the owners will put it all up on the table if the union agrees to take that legal offer to a vote.

Its not complicated. Let the union membership decide. Not Fehr .
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#4544 Snake Doctor

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:29 PM

The only way this thing is resolved is if the players cave.
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#4545 theminister

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:35 PM

All players will lose a year of their contract if the season is cancelled.

The owners aren't going to let their contracts slide until next season.


I don't understand what you are trying to say here.

The owners cannot simply wipe a year off of the contracts because the players are locked out. If it was a strike then yes but its not. Those contracts don't just go away and the teams would be liable in court even if the PA decertifies.

That's what happened last time and the same would apply this time.

Edited by theminister, 07 December 2012 - 01:37 PM.

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#4546 D-Money

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:38 PM

You are wasting your time. The union had a YEAR AND A HALF to 'play while negotiating' ................and it did nothing...


I have heard this argument before. Thing is, it reeks of a total misunderstanding of labour relations.

When one contract ends, the general understanding is that the next one will be very similar. Usually work continues under the terms of the old contract, and any minor changes are applied retroactively.

The players didn't need to come forward and "negotiate", because they didn't really have any demands. They were more than willing to have another contract exactly like the last one. Ownership are the ones who are demanding enormous concessions from the players. And with the drastic size of cutbacks and restrictions that they have conjured up, the onus was on them to bring them forward with enough time to negotiate them. But their delay seems to indicate that they had no intention of negotiating them anyways.

The first offer from the NHL, and the unwillingness to budge on most issues (until Fehr was out of the room - a sneaky attempt to discredit him), tells you all you need to know about this lockout. The owners are, to put it simply, trying to screw over the players. The players are just trying to draw a line at how much they are willing to get screwed over to have some hockey this year.
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#4547 poetica

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:40 PM

Its duly noted that you were late. Dont let it happen again. You are so vitally important to the NHL negotiations and we need to be updated to your position at all times.


*lol* Never thought anyone cared if I'm here or not. I was only being polite and apologizing for replying to older posts in case it caused confusion.

...
Even though Bettman claims its all off the table now, if the union moves quickly to reconsider it , the owners will put it all up on the table if the union agrees to take that legal offer to a vote.

Its not complicated. Let the union membership decide. Not Fehr .


Did you forget there were players involved? They could have asked for a formal proposal, but they didn't. The players not in attendance could have asked (at any time) for them to get a formal proposal for a vote, but as far as we know they didn't. The NHL could have given a formal proposal knowing that's what is needed for a vote, but they didn't. So it's baseless to blame Fehr for the PA not voting on the proposal.

But here's a question, why isn't the NHL putting every PA offer up to a vote? If that's so important why aren't the owners getting a say on each and every deal made to them? There are only 30. I can't imagine it would take that long. People seem to think the PA should have been forced to put to a vote a deal their representatives obviously found unacceptable but don't think the owners should be held to the same standard?

The reality is Fehr, like I assume Bettman, has his orders. He's been given a set of guidelines by the union for what they want, what they'll give on, and what they won't give up. It may change over time, but he almost certainly has a set of guidelines he's working with so stop assuming, without any proof that it's true, that Fehr alone is deciding what the deal will be. Very likely he's acting on the instructions he's received from the players and the players involved in the process are continuing to advise him as much as he is them.
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#4548 theminister

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:42 PM

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Its duly noted that you were late. Dont let it happen again. You are so vitally important to the NHL negotiations and we need to be updated to your position at all times.

The rest of us are mere fans who have no say in all of this so our opinions are simply a point of view.

The actual facts at hand are not complicated. The NHL tabled an agreement that was informal. However, Fehr knew its contents and if he had any intention of allowing it for vote, he could have easily asked the NHL for a formal draft of its entirety to take to their membership. They were in negotiations. They dont bring every proposal in legal form until its agreed upon by the leadership.

Even though Bettman claims its all off the table now, if the union moves quickly to reconsider it , the owners will put it all up on the table if the union agrees to take that legal offer to a vote.

Its not complicated. Let the union membership decide. Not Fehr .


She was responding to WHL rocks for not answering his questions earlier. No need to be a jerk for the sake of being a jerk. You always give yourself lots of ample opportunity anyway.

I'm quite certain that most of us here prefer poetica's input than yours.
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#4549 Shift-4

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:44 PM

I don't understand what you are trying to say here.

The owners cannot simply wipe a year off of the contracts because the players are locked out. If it was a strike then yes but its not. Those contracts don't just go away and the teams would be liable in court even if the PA decertifies.

That's what happened last time and the same would apply this time.


They lose the entire year according to this

http://i.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409424

LEGAL LOOK: DO PLAYERS LOSE CONTRACT YEAR ON A LOST SEASON?


We know that NHL players don't get paid their salaries during a lockout. From the NHL's standpoint, being in a position to deprive players of income represents pretty meaningful leverage during CBA negotiations.
What represents even more leverage? Players never getting that money back - or that year.
If a full season is lost to a lockout, a player loses that entire year on his contract even though no hockey is ever played. That means that a lost year does not somehow carry over to the following year. The year is gone; the money is gone.
The reason goes back to how a player contract is structured (or as it's called, a Standard Player's Contract or its short form, SPC). When a player signs a contract, he agrees that each contract year is counted as a "League Year". Under the CBA, a "League Year" is defined as July 1 of one year to June 30 of the next year.
So NHL players don't sign for a defined number of NHL seasons; they sign for a defined number of years that may or may not include NHL hockey.
Put another way, a player is employed for a year and not a season.
Like the CBA that expired in September, expect the new CBA to even include a release agreed to by the NHLPA and its players barring a claim against NHL teams for "back pay" (see Section 27 of the CBA). Of course, it is possible that the sides could negotiate a deal whereby players get some compensation for a lost season. However, don't bet on it.
This has an impact on a lot of teams, players and fans. When the league resumed play in 2005 after losing all of the previous season, the NHL never saw some of its more notable players again, including the likes ofRon Francis, Al MacInnis, Scott Stevens, Mark Messier,Vincent Damphousse and Adam Oates.
This time around may be no different. There are a number of players in their late thirties that will be free agents in 2013-2014. Some of these players may decide to retire or may not find a place to play. Here's a partial list of players that could be free agents in their late thirties next season: Kimmo Timonen, Patrik Elias, Sergei Gonchar, Tim Thomas,Daniel Alfredsson, Jaromir Jagr, Teemu Selanne, Saku Koivu,Nikolai Khabibulin, Roman Hamrlik, Evgeni Nabokov, Vinny Prospal,Adrian Aucoin, Milan Hejduk, Jose Theodore and Jamie Langenbrunner.
Remember if the salary cap comes down significantly, which is expected, teams may want to sign some of these players but may not have the cap space to do so, and instead may opt for cheaper talent.
Apart from retirement, there is also the issue of turnover. With over 200 unrestricted free agents set to hit the market in 2013 if this season is lost, fans will likely see old faces on their teams replaced with new ones.
As well, some fans may never even get a chance to see new players their teams have signed. Case in point: Carolina signed Alexander Semin to a one year deal, which means it's possible Hurricane fans may never see him play for the team.
So for players, there is a lot to lose by missing a season. And for some of these players, we may never see them again play NHL hockey.




Edit: but I presume they wouldn't under decertification

Edited by Shift-4, 07 December 2012 - 01:46 PM.

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#4550 D-Money

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:45 PM

Wow - what an original and incisive take on things - Eklund hath opened mine eyes.

He understands the owners, the players are making sense: it's just Fehr - it's all his fault...he doesn't understand the game as Eklund does...

Predictable, reductive, utterly simplistic.

Surprise - hockey's least credible source and most prolific creator of unsubstantiated rumours, has swallowed the NHL's dog and pony show hook line and sinker.


Well put; +1.

It's clear as day that the league is trying to discredit Fehr as much as possible. They only budged on key issues when he was gone. Then as soon as he comes in and tries to sort out the fine points, the owners all get up and leave.

Buying into the "it's all Fehr's fault" is the epitome of being duped.
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#4551 Shift-4

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:47 PM

I'm quite certain that most of us here prefer poetica's input than yours.


You don't like chuckles? ::D
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#4552 theminister

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:51 PM

You don't like chuckles? ::D


I've never been a big fan of Pinhead, no.

The difference in personas being that you and I have disagreed on many a subject over the years, though I believe we share more commonalities than not, however we are able to actually discuss them without resorting to rudeness. As such I don't ever want to come across as anything less than respectful of our dialogue without forgoing challenging each other.

His M.O. has always been to denigrate anyone who disagrees with him. Which is almost everyone. Always.
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#4553 theminister

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:56 PM

They lose the entire year according to this

http://i.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409424

LEGAL LOOK: DO PLAYERS LOSE CONTRACT YEAR ON A LOST SEASON?

...

Edit: but I presume they wouldn't under decertification



Huh. Ok, I guess I misunderstood that.
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#4554 RonMexico

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:58 PM

This is what happens when you collectively bargain in the media. It inspires rage from all angles. Bettman and Fehr both have one job and both are doing their one job. There job is to get the best deal for their respective sides within reason. It's all just posturing. It's a battle of wits and both leaders are very good at it. To say that one side is any worse than the other shows a lack of understanding how the process works. NHL - the system is broken...we make lots of money but don't get to keep as much as we want. NHLPA - you make it off our backs, we should get our fair share and not lose all our other bargained rights over the years too. Wash, rinse, repeat. In the end, the owners will get more of what they want. The NHLPA just has to claw to keep their bargained rights from eroding too much.
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#4555 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 02:02 PM

LOL aren't you the guy who thinks Schneider would need to defect to come back to the Canucks?? C'mon man.

Then you called me out for saying PHX (Glendale) citizens had poured millions per year into the franchise. You thought my comment was ludicrous, when I asked you if you disagreed with this fact you never came back to answer. LOL Obviously you are not aware of the city giving up to $25 million per year to keep the team.Two peas in a pot!!

http://sports.nation...o-keep-coyotes/


Edit, see this is how it works. I claim something you call me out I provide you with link as proof to my claim.


Wow you really are a clown. In that Glendale thread I never made mention to the actual topic, I'm pretty sure it's common knowledge to anyone that the Pheonix franchise is a money pit. I only went to that topic after the phantom personal attacks by you. I think it's also common knowledge that most of your posting isn't taken seriously. I think I read earlier from you that you've been listening to some kind of radio program for 20+ years, and then I see you reduced to a grumble match with nateb over the simple notion that Bettman has in fact pulled other offers off of the table. It is really difficult to see you as a mature adult, when you frequently come off as a child.
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#4556 enterin

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 02:02 PM

I am so dissappointed beyond belief!!! Seriously the game is working perfectly Mr. Bettmen, Daly and Owners.
You guys have solidifed my thoughts in ever believing that you guys are the good side...I hope hockey goes down
in a heep .....negotiate fellas stop the games...
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#4557 canucksnihilist

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 02:24 PM

if you think the nhl lockout is bad.... wait until the fiscal cliff posturing at the end of the year... if the recession digs deep again because the frackheads in washington want to get elected more than they want to do their job, .. bah. getting elected is their job...
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#4558 JAH

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 02:27 PM

The most interesting thing I've heard today was what I read on TSN. Ron Hainsey, who was a part of the players negotiating team, said that the players told the owners Wednesday night that they needed their representation in the room (Don Fehr) as they were not capable of negotiating a CBA. They said they were capable of dealing with individual issues and could get them close to a deal, but they needed Fehr now as it was getting beyond their capabilities as negotiators. The NHL responded with a 'that could be a deal breaker' and said to not expect the owners to remain to talk to Fehr. This is odd as under labour law, the employer (the NHL) is not allowed to dictate this, as it amounts to dictating who may represent them.

In the end, I am not overly pessimistic. There's a lot of emotion on both sides, but this is a business deal. If there is a deal to be made, the supposed professionals on both sides have the responsibility to get it done, regardless of distaste for the other side. I don't believe that Bettman or Fehr are incapable of putting aside their dislike of one another to scuttle the season, IF there is a deal to be made.

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#4559 Primus099

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 02:28 PM

Once Fehr got back involved everything went to sh!t, gg NHLPA
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#4560 fwybwed

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 02:44 PM

As I stated before the meetings this week. I knew the player would be manhandled in that room alone with the Owners...why because they dont know anything beyond ice, hockey and dollar signs...and certain people here dont get that...I heard Bettman say the word FANS many times in his PR did Fehr?...NOPE~! He did mention Canada...lol but only because press brought it up...

GO OWNERS~!
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