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*Official* CBA Negotiations and Lockout Thread


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#5341 Primal Optimist

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 01:11 PM

ARHG, sign it!!! the suspense is a killer....
50% of zero is still zero.

PLAY and get paid something, rather than not play and get paid nothing. .....if we lose the next half of the season then your highest paid guys just gave up 10m in the fight while the low end guys gave up 1m or less in the fight...and for what? To save 7% of their annual income...???????

IDIOTS listening to an EGO is all I have seen in the NHLPA this time around.

SIGN IT

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#5342 PlayStation

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 01:12 PM

Maximum salary cap of 60 million for next season? This is really killing teams who are good, and have money to spend like the Canucks.

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#5343 D-Money

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 01:15 PM

Anyone know how that might differ from what we have now?


In the current format, all non-playoff teams are in a draft lottery, however, the winner only goes up 5 spots. So only a team in the bottom 6 would actually get 1st overall. If a team in, let's say, 20th place won the lottery, they'd only move up to the 5th overall pick.

The new format proposes the winner getting 1st overall pick, regardless of original position.

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#5344 D-Money

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 01:17 PM

ARHG, sign it!!! the suspense is a killer....
50% of zero is still zero.


You do realize this is not a 1-season CBA, don't you?

Signing away 10 years of rights simply to make sure you make a couple months pay this year is only something a desperate fool would do.

Edited by D-Money, 28 December 2012 - 01:18 PM.

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#5345 Squeak

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 01:17 PM

In the current format, all non-playoff teams are in a draft lottery, however, the winner only goes up 5 spots. So only a team in the bottom 6 would actually get 1st overall. If a team in, let's say, 20th place won the lottery, they'd only move up to the 5th overall pick.

The new format proposes the winner getting 1st overall pick, regardless of original position.


Let me fix this for you.

In the current format, all non-playoff teams are in a draft lottery, however, the winner only goes up 4 spots. So only a team in the bottom 5 would actually get 1st overall. The 14 teams that did not make the playoffs are entered into the lottery and can only move up 4 spots.

The new format proposes the winner getting 1st overall pick, regardless of original position.


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#5346 poetica

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 01:18 PM

In the current format, all non-playoff teams are in a draft lottery, however, the winner only goes up 5 spots. So only a team in the bottom 6 would actually get 1st overall. If a team in, let's say, 20th place won the lottery, they'd only move up to the 5th overall pick.

The new format proposes the winner getting 1st overall pick, regardless of original position.


I see. Thank you. :)

EDIT: And thank you too, Squeak. :)

Edited by poetica, 28 December 2012 - 01:19 PM.

Go, Canucks, Go!
Every single one of them.

Thanks for the memories, Luo! :'(

#5347 Squeak

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 01:19 PM

I see. Thank you. :)


Please find my CORRECT reply above, to his post.
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#5348 Sergei Shirokov

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 01:19 PM

Maximum salary cap of 60 million for next season? This is really killing teams who are good, and have money to spend like the Canucks.


Say good bye to Edler......

Along with Ballard, Luongo,and Booth.

#5349 poetica

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 01:20 PM

Please find my CORRECT reply above, to his post.


I did. Thank you. :)
Go, Canucks, Go!
Every single one of them.

Thanks for the memories, Luo! :'(

#5350 playboi19

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 01:20 PM

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Take it! Or everything is OFF the Table@@@!!!###$@#%#$@^%##
And I mean it this time!!!


Fans/Players
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#5351 D-Money

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 01:21 PM

...and for what? To save 7% of their annual income...???????


First of all, going from 57% to 50% is not "7% of their annual income" - it's 12.3%.

Secondly, the players have already in theory agreed to that substantial decrease. The problem is, with what they are giving up there, they don't see why they should be expected to make a myriad of additional concessions, while the owners have all along been making record profits. Any one of us would feel the same if we were in their shoes.

The only IDIOTS are the impatient fans who only care about themselves.

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#5352 D-Money

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 01:24 PM

Let me fix this for you.


Ah...so close! Thanks.


Please find my CORRECT reply above, to his post.


Now you're just rubbing it in. MY THANKS ARE OFF THE TABLE!!!

Edited by D-Money, 28 December 2012 - 01:28 PM.

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#5353 iLLmAtlc

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 01:29 PM

I think everybody should temper their expectations. They manage to get us all excited every time, only to crush our hopes a few days later. I wouldn't be surprised if Fehr thinks he could squeeze out at least one more proposal from the league that would be better, it's still December 2012 after all, and the rumoured drop-dead date is mid-January. So I think we should all expect some back and forth here, and shouldn't be surprised if it again ends with one side storming off.
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#5354 Squeak

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 01:31 PM

Ah...so close! Thanks.




Now you're just rubbing it in. MY THANKS ARE OFF THE TABLE!!!


Sorry - just wanted to avoid confusion.
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#5355 gizmo2337

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 01:33 PM

Maximum salary cap of 60 million for next season? This is really killing teams who are good, and have money to spend like the Canucks.


This puts BOS, CGY, MIN in a tough position. I think VAN is ok assuming we Trade Luongo, and let Raymond and Maholtra walk at the end of the season. We'd probably have to make a choice between Ballard, Edler, or Booth

#5356 BCNeil

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 01:36 PM

Can you imagine if Fehr has presss conference.....and says something like...

"we are very close, we countered with 8 year individual contracts, and a 6 year cba term"

#5357 Sanj

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 01:41 PM

Can you imagine if Fehr has presss conference.....and says something like...

"we are very close, we countered with 8 year individual contracts, and a 6 year cba term"


Start the hunting party to find a pitchfork his rear end

#5358 stexx

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 01:50 PM

i would think that this offer is probably enough to get a players vote.

#5359 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 01:56 PM

:bored:

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Credit to Parise11


#5360 Heretic

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 01:56 PM

Your words:



You say you expect the owners to make concessions, yet they have really made none of any significance. Especially compared with the owners' unreasonable demands.

You then try to compare your company, which didn't make a profit, to a league that has made record profits in consecutive years. How does this compare?

Were you also asked to take a 12.3% paycut in future years? Are you also restricted from working/moving anywhere else, because you signed a 10-year contract under terms your employer is now trying to change (without giving you an opt-out)?




This is a perfect example. Employees are standing up and fighting for the rights they bargained for in good faith. Rather than support them, or at the very least respect their rights, the average Joe is telling them to suck it up, and bend over for the fat cats.

Why? Because of an in-depth understanding of the financial and legal issues? No, not at all. They just want to be entertained, and feel uncomfortable calling out the corporate elite, even when they are so obviously manipulating the situation.



That makes zero sense. We may not have an NHL without billionaires - at least, not as it is right now - but we'll always have hockey. I wonder if it would be even better...




Wrong again. The public perception towards employee rights is the basis for their existence. The more the general public begins to lose respect for them, and be comforatable with corporate bullying, the less power each of us have.

For someone with such strong feelings about organized labour negotiations, you have very little knowledge of how they work, or even what they represent. Sadly, you are in the majority.


I still don't see how I am contradicting myself. You're just grasping.

I said I expect. I didn't say - both sides are. Big difference.

You also have no idea about my background and because you disagree with my views, you immediately resort to questioning my knowledge and or trashing me.

I assisted in getting the FASWAC into Pizza Hut many many years ago.

As far as 12.3 %? I was asked to take a 50% cut in pay with one of the companies I was working for as they were in such a financial mess.
Did I go out and pout about it and whine on a forum and scream workers rights and chastise people because because how they think? Nope.

Record profits yet teams are in bankrupt states...that doesn't make sense.

Oh it's obvious eh? So you have been attending all the NHL and NHL owner's meetings?
If you don't have first hand knowledge then all you got is speculation. Not facts.

Take off those glasses.

BTW, seeing how you believe that worker bees should be making changes to how things work - what have you done to change both your employers?

BWT2, how long have you been watching hockey?

BWT3, how long have you had first hand knowledge of organized labour?

BWT4 - is this the real D-Money or did you hack his account?

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#5361 Primal Optimist

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 01:57 PM

You do realize this is not a 1-season CBA, don't you?

Signing away 10 years of rights simply to make sure you make a couple months pay this year is only something a desperate fool would do.

I am getting the impression you really are just here fo the argument, and nothing more. I could give a rat about the real dollars and cents...i am more interested in watching NHL hockey soon, and I am armed with at least a rudimentary understanding of careers..the average NHL one being about 5 years long: one season=20% of that...so you can 12.5% me all you want...cutting off your nose to spit your face has and always will be bad policy. However, i am not here to debate policy, but to talk about hockey..so sign it players and give us something to talk about on the HOCKEY forum.

edit: also i think your are misusing the term 'rights', but i get it..your passionate about the ability of millions of dollar salaries to remain close to their original number, rather than take the ..what was it...12.5% cut in order to save a half years worth of that same salary(*read 50%).

Edited by Primal Optimist, 28 December 2012 - 02:03 PM.

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#5362 Heretic

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 01:58 PM

You do realize this is not a 1-season CBA, don't you?

Signing away 10 years of rights simply to make sure you make a couple months pay this year is only something a desperate fool would do.


Not signing is something only the foolish would do - it could take them 10 years to make up for the lost wages so far - and guess what? Not all of those players will be playing in 10 years...

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#5363 D-Money

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 02:01 PM

This puts BOS, CGY, MIN in a tough position. I think VAN is ok assuming we Trade Luongo, and let Raymond and Maholtra walk at the end of the season. We'd probably have to make a choice between Ballard, Edler, or Booth


Even if we trade Luongo, buy out Ballard, and let Raymond and Malhotra walk, we're still sitting at over 50 million for 2013-14, with only 11 players signed. Edler will probably have to go.

I don't see how Calgary will be in a tough position. They only have 43.4 mil committed in 2013-14, with 14 signed.

Philly will be in a tough position. They may have to buy out Briere. Or do they use this opportunity to shed Bryzgalov? That's still A LOT of salary to pay out simply to get rid of someone.

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#5364 iwtl

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 02:09 PM

People are acting like it will only be the Canucks under the new terms - It's every team. Every team will have players that are in the same situation and it will be players who will have to face the fact that only a few select will get the big money - the rest will have to lower expectations. If any team wants to spend stupid money on a couple of players that team will not be able to fill out the rest of the team with a winning roster - the lowered cap will result in a couple franchise players per team and everyone else sorting out the pecking order for the remaining cap.
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#5365 Heretic

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 02:17 PM

Maximum salary cap of 60 million for next season? This is really killing teams who are good, and have money to spend like the Canucks.


Yes, very puzzling - if the NHL is indeed making "record profits", why would they want a smaller salary cap?

Maybe, they aren't making "record profits"...according to Forbes, only 3 teams made any real money last year and 18 lost money.

http://www.forbes.co...esnt-have-them/

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#5366 gizmo2337

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 02:23 PM

Even if we trade Luongo, buy out Ballard, and let Raymond and Malhotra walk, we're still sitting at over 50 million for 2013-14, with only 11 players signed. Edler will probably have to go.

I don't see how Calgary will be in a tough position. They only have 43.4 mil committed in 2013-14, with 14 signed.

Philly will be in a tough position. They may have to buy out Briere. Or do they use this opportunity to shed Bryzgalov? That's still A LOT of salary to pay out simply to get rid of someone.


Next years 2013-2014 roster might look something like this to get under the cap. Granted that Edler is in line with a raise, but I still think it can be squeezed in. We just need to bring up some of our own players from the farm.

Edit, awwwe darn, I forgot to include the Burrows raise. Still, there should be enough wiggle room.

FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Alexandre Burrows ($2.000m)
David Booth ($4.250m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Chris Higgins ($1.900m) / Maxim Lapierre ($1.000m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Aaron Volpatti ($0.600m) / Andrew Ebbett ($0.600m) / Dale Weise ($0.615m)
Jordan Schroeder ($1.025m) / Nicklas Jensen ($0.894m)
DEFENSEMEN
Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m) / Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m)
Jason Garrison ($4.600m) / Alexander Edler ($3.250m)
Keith Ballard ($4.200m) / Chris Tanev ($0.900m)
Kevin Connauton ($0.900m) /
GOALTENDERS
Cory Schneider ($4.000m)
Eddie Lack ($0.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $60,004,167; BONUSES: $310,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $10,505,833

Edited by gizmo2337, 28 December 2012 - 02:25 PM.


#5367 Rey

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 02:32 PM

Eh, I wouldn't think about it until it's a done deal. January 11 seems to be the deadline to save the season. Fehr's taking it this far already, no reason why he shouldn't wait another couple weeks.

Edit: http://www.theglobea...article6764756/

A week to negotiate. At least we'll know for certain if there will be a season or not this year.

Edited by Rey, 28 December 2012 - 02:39 PM.


#5368 theminister

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 02:35 PM

Why did the NHL take the offer off of the table again and cease negotiations if they are just going to come come back with a 'compromise' offer?

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#5369 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 02:36 PM

@BradZiemer
If training camps open on Jan. 12, #Canucks won't be able to use Rogers Arena as Lady Gaga scheduled to do second of 2 shows.

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#5370 Rey

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 02:40 PM

Why did the NHL take the offer off of the table again and cease negotiations if they are just going to come come back with a 'compromise' offer?


bad negotiation tactics.




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