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*Official* CBA Negotiations and Lockout Thread


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#6091 Mufasa

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 06:45 PM

Lp
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#6092 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 06:55 PM

Ossi, or anyone else, any idea on a couple of other issues that were being batted around earlier;

Is two buyouts still on order?

Also is there anything to earlier discussions of being able to trade a player, but pay up to half his real dollar salary?

Or absorb up to half the cap to make a deal go...?



Ok so as a review, Centre for Disease Control. The issues at hand:

- Length of CBA (players want 7-8 year max, owners want 10 year max - opt out option at 8 year)
- Make whole amount (players want 393m, owners offer 300m with 50m in pension - both are contingent upon 10 year deal)
- Salary cap for 2013/14 season (seems to be the biggest issue, players want 65m cap, owners 60m - though having no cap on escrow shouldn't create such an issue)
- Pension (seems to have popped up recently, current proposal has players paying pension)
- Max contract length and variance (players want 8 year contract max, owners want 6 year max - 7 for RFA, current variance proposal is 30%)


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#6093 WiDeN

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 06:56 PM

yep, no doctor is going to say someone coming back from 2 surgeries doesnt need more rehab time to get back to "normal" let alone a professional athlete.

on the CBA front: seems eerily quiet, usually there is some leaking info of what meetings going on/whos in it/what its about. Seems like it really could be almost over.

oh and the longest face to face meeting in well over a month.

Also, I bet the Canucks would rather he be taking a big long recovery path instead of saving a little bit of money during the lock out. There's going to be a season sooner or later, and what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
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#6094 SamJamIam

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 06:59 PM

Ossi, or anyone else, any idea on a couple of other issues that were being batted around earlier;

Is two buyouts still on order?

Also is there anything to earlier discussions of being able to trade a player, but pay up to half his real dollar salary?

Or absorb up to half the cap to make a deal go...?


I believe the owners are going for the buyouts option while players are going for the latter scheme. As with most things, the NHL is fighting for things that benefit relatively few owners while the players are looking for a solution that benefits the whole league.
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#6095 Trebreh

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 07:02 PM

I like the 2 buyouts option....
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#6096 theminister

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 07:03 PM

I am curious to know the timeframe for the buyouts.

Since they are being suggested to deal with next year's lowered cap I assume they will still be active for after this season.

Is there going to be a time limit on this?
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#6097 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 07:06 PM

Ossi, or anyone else, any idea on a couple of other issues that were being batted around earlier;

Is two buyouts still on order?

Also is there anything to earlier discussions of being able to trade a player, but pay up to half his real dollar salary?

Or absorb up to half the cap to make a deal go...?


Those are contentious issues as well. Buyouts are still on the table, and would be in compliance with a lowered salary cap. So this is contingent upon what ever cap both sides agree on for 13/14 (in the range of 63-65m). I can't see the PA willingly signing on to something that would mean a portion of it's members (61m from 16 teams over the 60m limit) out of a job.

Trading cap is also on the table, though I don't know enough at this time to say where they are on it. I believe it is salary that is being traded, the player and the salary get moved but part of the cap hit can stay behind. I'm not sure what % of cap hit stays.
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#6098 poetica

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 07:06 PM

They could have changed the goal posts again, but as I understand it the buyouts would have to take place before the 2013/14 season and they would come out of the players' share but not count against the team's cap.
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#6099 theminister

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 07:17 PM

They could have changed the goal posts again, but as I understand it the buyouts would have to take place before the 2013/14 season and they would come out of the players' share but not count against the team's cap.


Interesting... meaning, say, Montreal would not have the choice to buyout Gomez immediately if they chose to do so to help improve the roster this year.

I can imagine that most teams will not actually buy out two players considering the amount of expiring contracts as well.
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#6100 Neufy161

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 07:24 PM


Pierre LeBrun@Real_ESPNLeBrun

Depending on if/when a deal is done, NHL has 50-game or 48-game schedules drawn up...

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#6101 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 07:27 PM

Pierre LeBrun@Real_ESPNLeBrun
Depending on if/when a deal is done, NHL has 50-game or 48-game schedules drawn up...


Judging by how long they usually take to create a schedule, I would say they had a mid January start date in mind from the get-go. I think it will be a majority of inner conference games, division games and maybe a road trip each to the other conference.
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#6102 surtur

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 07:29 PM

Judging by how long they usually take to create a schedule, I would say they had a mid January start date in mind from the get-go. I think it will be a majority of inner conference games, division games and maybe a road trip each to the other conference.

as long as we get to play Boston i will be happy.
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#6103 BURE ERA

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 07:43 PM

sorry for being a newb bu what's going on? are we having a season this year?
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#6104 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 07:54 PM

@PatrickCaisse
An NHLPA member told me that he would be "extremely surprised" if there's no deal by Monday. #Lockout #NHL
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#6105 MC Fatigue

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 08:07 PM

sorry for being a newb bu what's going on? are we having a season this year?

:unsure:
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#6106 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 08:07 PM

‏@SunGarrioch
The #NHL and #NHLPA have been meeting for over 9 hours.
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#6107 Sanj

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 08:08 PM

Judging by how long they usually take to create a schedule, I would say they had a mid January start date in mind from the get-go. I think it will be a majority of inner conference games, division games and maybe a road trip each to the other conference.


I doubt it takes that long. Its just a scheduling algorithm where they input the constraints for each team. Computer automatically generates a generic schedule and then they adjust it accordingly where needed.
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#6108 cs2016

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 08:33 PM

‏@SunGarrioch
The #NHL and #NHLPA have been meeting for over 9 hours.


Renaud Lavoie@RenLavoieRDS
We expect an update soon on NHL CBA talks.
Renaud Lavoie@RenLavoieRDS
Told talks are still on at this hour. Still waiting on the update.

Edited by cs2016, 05 January 2013 - 08:35 PM.

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#6109 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 08:51 PM

I doubt it takes that long. Its just a scheduling algorithm where they input the constraints for each team. Computer automatically generates a generic schedule and then they adjust it accordingly where needed.


Usually takes them 2 months during the summer. At least that was what Bettman quoted when asked about moving the Jets into the Western conference.

Now you have to factor in all the concerts and monster truck shows booked for these arenas since most of the NHL season was cancelled. There is a lot of conflicts combined with the logistics of not having teams in different cities night to night. Then you have to factor on which games get cut for a condensed season, do you have 6 games vs division still? How many outer conference games do you schedule? I'd say they were prepped beforehand.
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#6110 cs2016

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 09:06 PM


Nick Kypreos@RealKyper

On contract variance #NHL offered 30% yr to yr but kicker is no yr can be less than 60% of the highest salaried year. #NHLPA wants wider gap

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#6111 poetica

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 09:11 PM

NHL labour talks still inching along

There was some excitement Saturday afternoon when mediator Scot Beckenbaugh requested the NHL and NHLPA meet face-to-face. The location -- the players' hotel -- was eyebrow-raising, too, since it was the first time a tete-a-tete was held in such surroundings.

The good news is that Beckenbaugh wouldn't have called them together if there wasn't something to talk about. But, in the social media age, excitement is a runaway train. We should know better.

Right now, it sounds like both sides seem to be saying they will not fully concede on any of the outstanding issues. For example, the last known proposals on the 2013-14 salary cap were $60 million (league) and $65 million (players). Assuming the above premise is correct, that means both the NHL and NHLPA are saying, "We're not coming all the way to your side. But we'll talk about what's between those numbers."

So, when you add outstanding issues like next season's cap, contract term limits (which already are tight together) and variance to the passion both sides have shown in fighting for these positions, you can see the potential potholes.


No one is going to want to be seen as "giving up" on all of these things. It's not so simple as splitting the baby and it's hard to say how far either side is willing to move. It's going to be inch-by-inch and it's going to be intense.

Meanwhile, the players finished their "Disclaimer of Interest" vote at 6 pm (ET). While it is expected the mandate to file will be overwhelming, it's believed they will not do so unless talks break down. So, we'll wait to this if this wildcard becomes part of the process, or just the threat of it is enough.

It could be a long night, which isn't a bad thing.

(Note: Emphasis is mine.)
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#6112 woot

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 09:37 PM

Nick Kypreos@RealKyper
On contract variance #NHL offered 30% yr to yr but kicker is no yr can be less than 60% of the highest salaried year. #NHLPA wants wider gap


For once in it's goddamn history, the NHL's proposal seems reasonable.
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#6113 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 10:24 PM

@BroadStBull: The sides have been together for the last 11hrs. #NHL #NHLPA
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#6114 G-52

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 11:07 PM

Judging by how long they usually take to create a schedule, I would say they had a mid January start date in mind from the get-go. I think it will be a majority of inner conference games, division games and maybe a road trip each to the other conference.


Don't be fooled by bettman, they have a program designed for scheduling. They put in all the "blackouts" and the computer will make a schedule based on how many games you need and what parameters you set. It probably takes a matter of hours, or a day tops.
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#6115 Provost

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 11:28 PM

And I'm guessing the NHLPA isn't happy with teams having two buyouts. Alot of veteran players are gonna be forced out of the NHL.


It was the PA that was pushing for the buyouts and the league resisting. The players want some of the buyout to come out of the owner's share though.

One largely forgotten item which can make all the difference in how this all works is being able to retain cap or salary in a trade. That would make the cap strapped teams be able to still have great rosters by trading with the cash poor teams.

Eg. (and this is just to illustrate how huge that clause could be... not really the value going either way)

To Florida:
Luongo (we retain half the salary for the next 4 years, but Florida takes the whole cap hit)
Ballard (we retain half the salary, but Florida takes the whole cap hit)
Schroeder

To Vancouver:
Upshall (Florida retains half the cap hit, we take on all the salary)
Jovanovski (Florida retains half the cap hit, we take on all the salary)
Bjugstad

All of a sudden we free up huge cap space ($9.5 million with the two big contracts). In return we take on less than $4 million for two solid players.

Florida suddenly has no issue making the cap floor, they get back an elite goalie for around $2.75 million per year who their fans actually know and might help sell tickets. They get a #4 D man for only $2 million in actual cash. They have dropped $7.65 million in actual salary and only taken on less than $5 million. They have freed up almost $3 million to pocket or spend on another player that they couldn't have afforded otherwise.
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#6116 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 11:31 PM

@FriedgeHNIC: 12 hrs since face-to-face began, but don't forget mediation started 14.5 hrs ago.
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#6117 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 11:33 PM

@JoshRimerHockey: Just heard from a solid source that now NHL/NHLPA want 52 game season. That's a very solid number!
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#6118 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 11:44 PM

@nhlupdate: They are talking about pensions right now in those meetings. The pension problem is one of the larger issues with lots of info to hammer

Seriously, how many times have pensions been settled and later on pop up back again?
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#6119 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 11:45 PM

To Florida:
Luongo (we retain half the salary for the next 4 years, but Florida takes the whole cap hit)
Ballard (we retain half the salary, but Florida takes the whole cap hit)
Schroeder

To Vancouver:
Upshall (Florida retains half the cap hit, we take on all the salary)
Jovanovski (Florida retains half the cap hit, we take on all the salary)
Bjugstad


I wouldn't do that deal.

Ballard > Jovo
Lu > Bjugstad
Schroeder < Upshall

I understand it would take a nice deal to pry Bjugstad but it isn't worth it if this is the deal, Ballard is a much better option than Jovo, Upshall isn't really a need, we have a # of players like him and I don't wanna give up Schroeder not sure why everyone is jumping ship on him, just gotta be patient and he will be a good player.

Not sold on Bjugstad enough to take on all those other negatives in the deal.
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#6120 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 11:51 PM

@adater: Me to person in the room in NYC: Could we still have a deal tonight? Answer: still working

Interesting, but I'm going to say Sunday evening.
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