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*Official* CBA Negotiations and Lockout Thread


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#691 D-Money

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 10:02 AM

If 20% of Canadian hockey fans switch to non Molson beers until the lockout is resolved, do you think the ownership in Montreal would take notice?


I'd love to help, but I stopped drinking that crap years ago.

Maybe we can research some other businesses owned/held by NHL owners? There's Gilette, right?

Edited by D-Money, 10 September 2012 - 10:03 AM.

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#692 oldnews

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 10:47 AM

If we want to have any effect on the outcome as fans, we have one option only. Initiate a North America wide boycott of all business owed and operated by team owners.

Issue our own demands. Either you guys settle this by the 30th or we will extend the boycott for the duration of the hockey season.

The problem with fans is we love to bitch and complain, but we're never willing to actually do anything about it.

If 20% of Canadian hockey fans switch to non Molson beers until the lockout is resolved, do you think the ownership in Montreal would take notice?

Let's setup a site where we track down the owners business interests and start boycotting them.

I don't think this should be just targeted at the owners either though. Let's hit companies that use players for endorsements.

We love the hardest hitting sport in the world, but very few of us are actually willing to do any of the hitting ourselves.

This is the age of digital and social media.

This wouldn't be that hard, it would only take commitment of the fans to make it happen!


I'm in Vegas Canuck.

I intend to personally double the length of this lockout by boycotting the NHL itself for at least as long after this lockout ends as it had transpired. But I like your idea better - I think the NHL knows how much we love hockey and they do take us for granted because they know we'll come back to the game (at least the Canadian market) - but to choose alternatives to their foundation enterprises (consumer boycotts) would have greater leverage (let's face it - for virtually every owner an NHL team is fairly peripheral - to own an NHL team obvioulsy requires having a great deal of wealth otherwise generated). I think that your consumer boycotts would certainly make the implications of this kind of hardball less acceptable - particularly when fans become more aware of the actual scope of the interests (beyond hockey).
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#693 goalie13

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 10:49 AM

If we want to have any effect on the outcome as fans, we have one option only. Initiate a North America wide boycott of all business owed and operated by team owners.


I can't afford any of the real estate the Aquilinis deal in and it's too far for me to get to their golf courses, so this should be easy.
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#694 oldnews

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 11:02 AM

I can't afford any of the real estate the Aquilinis deal in and it's too far for me to get to their golf courses, so this should be easy.


That's ok really - the Canucks imo are not one of the core teams responsible for this lockout. Having acted as they have (only one really long term contract for cap intervention purposes that pales in comparison to many around the league, signed with a player who was already a Canuck, to retain him - otherwise moderate terms accross the board and relatively equalizing top end salaries) - I doubt the Canucks would be looking to reneg on the contracts they have agreed to with their players (the lockout would be an extremely hard/impossible sell if you isolated this franchise's interests). Imo the implications of their sensible behaviour on the free agent market does not injure the small market teams the way some GMs accross the league who are throwing around monster contracts does. Small markets in the US depend upon some measure of competitiveness to generate any interest in their fan base. The ridiculous contracts being signed contradict the claims for a need for a lockout (what they indicate is the need for limiting terms between franchises - not the NHL and NHLPA). Philadelphia's offersheet may have just dealt a near death blow to Nashville - the onus imo exists between NHL owners. Some NHL teams appear to be conducting themselves as if they are independent corporations with far less regard to the balance of the interests of the league as a whole than a GM like Gillis, who has maintained a sane salary/contract structure relative to the Canucks revenue and those accross the NHL. No doubt the context in Vancouver makes spending to the cap not only very reasonable but arguably the competitiveness of the franchise makes them relatively more profitable as a result. I don't see them as one of the primaries in this push for a lockout and I don't see them as having negatively pushed the limits of the collective interests of ownership either.

Edited by oldnews, 10 September 2012 - 11:28 AM.

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#695 D-Money

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 12:02 PM

I made a thread on businesses in which NHL owners have a stake in.

http://forum.canucks...nce-nhl-owners/

My boycott list is:

- All beers produced/distributed by Molson (no Heinekin or Corona)
- Rexall drugs (normally gets around $50/month from me)
- Moxies
- Little Cesars
- Pizza Hut (BC)
- Sandman Hotels
- All films produced by Relativity Media
- Premiership games with Liverpool or Real Madrid, merchandise for either team
- Will try to influence brother-in-law to boycott St. Louis Rams (he's a huge fan)
- Fernie Alpine Resort, Kimberley Alpine Resort, Nakiska, Stoneham Mountain Resort, and Kicking Horse Resort (I go to Kicking Horse every year)
- No events at Rogers Arena when I'm in Vancouver (I catch concerts here)
- Bassano Hard Soda (will tell everyone it's terrible)

Edited by D-Money, 10 September 2012 - 01:35 PM.

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#696 D-Money

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 12:04 PM

I can't afford any of the real estate the Aquilinis deal in and it's too far for me to get to their golf courses, so this should be easy.


Aquillinis have a large stake in the company that owns/operates every Pizza Hut in BC. They are also the creators/owners of Bassano Hard Soda.

Then there are also the other events at Rogers Arena - concerts, etc. Boycotting these now affects them the same way that boycotting the team would later. Actually, probably more, since the games will definitely sell out, but lots of concerts don't.

Edited by D-Money, 10 September 2012 - 12:05 PM.

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#697 Lui's Knob

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 12:46 PM

Just so people know where the fans play in all of this, just read the following quote from Brian Burke from the National Post...

QUOTE): What can you say to the fans?
"It's a part of pro sports. The players are represented by a players' association. They have to come to an agreement with the league in question. It's been done successfully in some cases; it's been unsuccessful in others. There's been work stoppages in all the sports. Hopefully, something will get done here."


In summary - they could care less...aka "deal with it." Both sides are really overestimating fans' wallets...if they think 1994 and 2004 stoppages were bad for NHL hockey, try 2012 in a uncertain global economy...

http://sports.nation...next-for-leafs/

Edited by Here's Johnny, 10 September 2012 - 12:47 PM.

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#698 gurn

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 01:29 PM

So how long will it be before folks like
Arthur Griffiths
Jim Ballsilee(sp)
Mark Cuban
and others decide to try to start an alternate league?
There are "spare" ice rinks in many cities.
Return the rules of the game to earlier times such as:
no shootout,ties allowed, no four on four ot, get rid of the goalies trapazoid and so on.
If they create a league that is a real partnership with the players would you go there instead?
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#699 oldnews

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 01:46 PM

Just so people know where the fans play in all of this, just read the following quote from Brian Burke from the National Post...

QUOTE): What can you say to the fans?
"It's a part of pro sports. The players are represented by a players' association. They have to come to an agreement with the league in question. It's been done successfully in some cases; it's been unsuccessful in others. There's been work stoppages in all the sports. Hopefully, something will get done here."


In summary - they could care less...aka "deal with it." Both sides are really overestimating fans' wallets...if they think 1994 and 2004 stoppages were bad for NHL hockey, try 2012 in a uncertain global economy...

http://sports.nation...next-for-leafs/


I think that's about par for the course of what you can expect from someone who is prudent, trained and practiced as a lawyer and is negotiating/working as an agent of a profitable owner - his job is to speak to their interests, lobby on their behalf and do damage control - therefore he diverts from the question and fact that the "fans" are actually the customers, creates an abstract/neutral context, pretends it is a natural occurance, and then frames the issue as an onus on the player's and their union having to come to an agreement...
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#700 D-Bo7

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 02:54 PM

Just so people know where the fans play in all of this, just read the following quote from Brian Burke from the National Post...

QUOTE): What can you say to the fans?
"It's a part of pro sports. The players are represented by a players' association. They have to come to an agreement with the league in question. It's been done successfully in some cases; it's been unsuccessful in others. There's been work stoppages in all the sports. Hopefully, something will get done here."


In summary - they could care less...aka "deal with it." Both sides are really overestimating fans' wallets...if they think 1994 and 2004 stoppages were bad for NHL hockey, try 2012 in a uncertain global economy...

http://sports.nation...next-for-leafs/


To me that sounds like he's trying to blame it on the players. Like if there's a lockout, it's all on them.

Lot of hot air coming out of Burke's mouth, but what else is new?

Burke probably doesn't mind a lockout because it means he gets to keep his job for another year. :rolleyes:

Edited by D-Bo7, 10 September 2012 - 02:56 PM.

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#701 Everybody Hates Raymond

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 03:10 PM

Don't know if this has been posted yet, but - NHL players are willing to play while the CBA discussions are ongoing. Looks like the lockout has been avoided.

https://twitter.com/...962736226840576
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#702 Mr.Habitat

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 03:12 PM

Don't know if this has been posted yet, but - NHL players are willing to play while the CBA discussions are ongoing. Looks like the lockout has been avoided.

https://twitter.com/...962736226840576


Nope. This is old news. Owners said they will not operate without a new CBa.


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#703 Mr.Habitat

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 03:14 PM

The NHL is real mad.

With another NHL lockout just days away, some bad blood has started to bubble to the surface.

The league and owners have no bargaining sessions scheduled before the current collective bargaining agreement expires at 11:59 p.m. ET on Saturday. But they're expected to take part in a Tuesday morning hearing with the Alberta Labour Relations Board as the NHL Players' Association seeks to keep the Edmonton Oilers and Calgary Flames from being locked out.

"This is a joke," deputy commissioner Bill Daly told The Canadian Press in an email.


#CBA Reached via email Daly said: "We sat around all weekend waiting for the Union. Nothing. Obviously, a different agenda. Unfortunate."

http://www.winnipegf...l?device=mobile




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#704 D-Money

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 03:26 PM

Oh man, if 3+ teams have to pay all of their players full salary...whoa, that could force some hands.
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#705 oldnews

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 04:21 PM

The NHL is real mad.

With another NHL lockout just days away, some bad blood has started to bubble to the surface.

The league and owners have no bargaining sessions scheduled before the current collective bargaining agreement expires at 11:59 p.m. ET on Saturday. But they're expected to take part in a Tuesday morning hearing with the Alberta Labour Relations Board as the NHL Players' Association seeks to keep the Edmonton Oilers and Calgary Flames from being locked out.

"This is a joke," deputy commissioner Bill Daly told The Canadian Press in an email.


#CBA Reached via email Daly said: "We sat around all weekend waiting for the Union. Nothing. Obviously, a different agenda. Unfortunate."

http://www.winnipegf...l?device=mobile


A different agenda than consenting to a lockout?
Kind of ironic to get angry about the players playing hardball?
Sorry but the whole 'we sat around waiting' thing sounds like posturing, to try to reverse some perception around what is apparently inevitable - that it is the league that is doing the locking out. Was one meeting likely to change that? If so, there are still five weekdays to see.

Edited by oldnews, 10 September 2012 - 04:29 PM.

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#706 D-Bo7

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 05:56 PM

Schneider on lockout “We’re preparing as if there’s going to be a season. Until it’s official, or till we’re locked out, we’re going to plan on being ready no matter what.”

D.Sedin on lockout “It doesn’t look too good. I’m not too optimistic"
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#707 Walkin'2929

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 07:02 PM

If there is another lockout, about the best way for fans to hit back at the NHL is to leave a lot of arenas empty when the season resumes, and to keep it that way for the rest of the season.

Let's go support the Giants instead. It would be great to be able to afford to go see a game for a change!
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#708 RunningWild

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 08:12 PM

Not sure if posted yet:

Renaud P Lavoie@RenLavoieRDS

NHL and NHLPA agreed to put a special waiver period in place, starting right now until September 15...

That way, veteran players of the AHL, with 2 way contract, are going to have the right to play for their farm team

They won't have to be put on re-entry waivers if they are call back 3 days before the start of the season.


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#709 Sergei Shirokov

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 08:27 PM

If a deal is reached by Oct.5ish, could the season potentially still start on time? They'd only need a few days to do their medical testing and physicals, and do away with preseason.

Thatd leaves leave almost a month for negoiation to continue.
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#710 D-Bo7

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 08:59 PM

Since UBC rink is not owned by the Canucks, I'm assuming the players can continue to practice there even if there is a lockout, am I right?
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#711 Imuzi

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 10:03 PM

First off, this is not my petition, I found it and felt that the number of signatures warranted sharing. I apologize to the mods if this was already posted. I didn't want it to get lost in an older thread.

Secondly, I know this probably won't change much so no need to show your fluff and tell me that over and over.

Fact is, we are not empowered in this situation as fans, but at least this gives us a sense of temporarily fighting back and doing something about this. If you don't like it fine, just don't sign. Personally, I think it's great and it takes 2 seconds so who cares if in the end it doesn't change anything, at least it brings fans together and gives us some kind of a voice and there seem to be a lot of signatures.

Edit: From the time I found this to having finished this post it went up 100 names!
Edit: Now up to 12,000!

http://www.change.or...ason-nolockout#
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#712 Canucksbiggestfan

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 10:21 PM

I just teared up a little bit after watching highlights from the Canucks skate...

Please god let there be a season, I'm hoping for a big miracle here!!!
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#713 Lui's Knob

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 08:30 AM

Clearly no hockey until the true deadline which is jan 1st winter classic. Try to do something else than watch poor NHL and PA banter and whining
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#714 _Kick_Save_

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 09:29 AM

4 days before the deadline and apparently the PA and the League are not even talking to each other...looks like the season is a goner. This is ridiculous we as fans who invest our hard earned dollars into this game. We are the reasons there is even revenue being fought over, Yet we are the ones losing out on our game for the year. I want heads to roll for this league wide. Starting with Bettman. Sure league revenue hasn't been higher but whether it be with the fans, expansion or dealing with the players as a representative of the owners, Gary has time and time again shown he is out of touch. 3 lockouts in his tenure is unacceptable and we as fans cannot let his total mismanagement of the league go unpunished.

I want a League run by a management that understands that the league has an obligation to the fans above all.
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#715 Aladeen

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 12:12 PM

Not sure if anyone has posted this yet but I think it was a great read to help understand the issues at hand.

An article by Bob MaKenzie:
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=404989
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#716 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 04:21 PM

^ ya that was a good read. He adds a lot of perspective having observed 3 lockouts.

TSN update - meeting scheduled for Wednesday.


he NHL and the players' association will meet in New York City on Wednesday, as the two sides try to get a deal done before Saturday's midnight deadline.

The two sides, represented by NHLPA executive director Donald Fehr, his top assistant and brother, Steve Fehr, as well as NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman and deputy commissioner Bill Daly, will meet ahead of a scheduled NHLPA meeting at 5:30pm et/2:30pm pt where more than 250 players are expected to attend.

The board of governors will meet Thursday at the NHL offices and could authorize Bettman to proceed with a lockout on Saturday if a new collective bargaining agreement hasn't been reached.

The expiring deal has been in place since 2005 following the previous lockout that forced the cancellation of the entire 2004-05 season and playoffs.

The preseason schedule is set to begin on Sept. 19, and the regular season is supposed to start on Oct. 11.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=405064

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#717 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 04:22 PM

Players should at least show SOME wiggle room in maybe offering to go down to 54%. Right now the stiff 57% isn't working with the Owners. I don't think the players should have to go all the way down to 46 - 50/50 at worst.
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#718 D-Bo7

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 04:59 PM

^ ya that was a good read. He adds a lot of perspective having observed 3 lockouts.

TSN update - meeting scheduled for Wednesday.


he NHL and the players' association will meet in New York City on Wednesday, as the two sides try to get a deal done before Saturday's midnight deadline.
The two sides, represented by NHLPA executive director Donald Fehr, his top assistant and brother, Steve Fehr, as well as NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman and deputy commissioner Bill Daly, will meet ahead of a scheduled NHLPA meeting at 5:30pm et/2:30pm pt where more than 250 players are expected to attend.
The board of governors will meet Thursday at the NHL offices and could authorize Bettman to proceed with a lockout on Saturday if a new collective bargaining agreement hasn't been reached.
The expiring deal has been in place since 2005 following the previous lockout that forced the cancellation of the entire 2004-05 season and playoffs.
The preseason schedule is set to begin on Sept. 19, and the regular season is supposed to start on Oct. 11.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=405064


Sadly this meeting is likely all for show. It's both sides saying one last time "well we tried".

It won't be until players start losing paychecks and owners start losing revenue that talks will get serious.

Edited by D-Bo7, 11 September 2012 - 05:00 PM.

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#719 Double Vs

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 09:18 PM

I really don't know what to say. I thought they would have learned last time, but no. From 1893 to 1992. No sniff of a stoppage, then potentially four in 20 years? I think that says more about the greed of our times then the actual situation. It changed to a business when Bettman came on board.

At least the old hardass owners such as Smythe, Norris, Adams, wouldn't have a stoppage. They would have still played, but again, different times. Players much more organized now. Was just reading this from Wiki....

'Labor conditions for the players were also poor. Players' medical bills were paid for only two months after an injury. Moreover, whenever players were sent to the minors, they not only had their salaries cut, but their relocation costs were not covered. The players were also not paid for off-season promotions, and did not share in the funds of promotions such as trading cards as was done in baseball. In the earlier era, players were allowed to play other sports, such as lacrosse, for money in the off-season, but this was disallowed in the standard Original Six-era contract.'

Then Eagleson ripped off the players too...

In this day and age, there should be ways to get a proper deal done, have everyone make their fair share, keep the 'industry' going, and give the fans what they want...hockey..
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#720 goalie13

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 09:57 AM

Clearly no hockey until the true deadline which is jan 1st winter classic. Try to do something else than watch poor NHL and PA banter and whining


There's plenty of hockey, and depending on where you live, it's really good hockey.

Since UBC rink is not owned by the Canucks, I'm assuming the players can continue to practice there even if there is a lockout, am I right?


They would have to pay for it themselves though, and probably buy their own gear as much of what they use now is owned by the team.
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