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*Official* CBA Negotiations and Lockout Thread


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#1381 gizmo2337

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 12:14 PM

I'm interested how this may affect the salary cap for this year. How did they calculate it in previous years? I suppose this is likely on the table as well.

Surely they wouldn't drop the cap and force teams to comply within a couple weeks.
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#1382 theminister

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 12:24 PM

I'm interested how this may affect the salary cap for this year. How did they calculate it in previous years? I suppose this is likely on the table as well.

Surely they wouldn't drop the cap and force teams to comply within a couple weeks.


Escrow.

If they maintain their previous projection of 5% growth on last years revenue (unlikely with all of this public backlash IMHO) then expected revenue would be $3.465 bil, making the cap $57.75 mil.

Seeing as how the owners all agreed to this I can see them expecting teams to get under the cap in 3 weeks.

Edit: Think of it as a compromise for the owners that instead of a high $$$ revenue sharing this will be a talent sharing instead.

Edited by theminister, 16 October 2012 - 12:27 PM.

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#1383 gizmo2337

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 12:28 PM

Interesting to note in the proposal that AHL contracts count against the cap in some way. Call it the Wade Redden rule. No more burying contracts in the minors. I wouldn't be surprised if there are similar loopholes closed. I wonder if they will close the retirement loophole?
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#1384 AriGold

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 12:37 PM

I realize that the PA won't accept this deal as is(mainly on contract lengths), but I think negotiations will start getting serious and they need to be meeting everyday for 12-18 hours for the next few days and try and work out a deal ASAP

Yeah it's not ideal but they like us all just want hockey !! PS, Check PM's ;) You should be pleased..
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#1385 gizmo2337

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 12:48 PM

Found an article that helps explain the cap. I modified for the 50/50 split below. http://tinyurl.com/8kppxrc

Midpoint: ($3.3-billion x .50) - $90-million in benefits / 30 teams = $55-million

Inflator: 55-million x 1.05 = $57.75-million

Cap ceiling: $57.75-million + $8-million = estimated $65- to $66-million

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#1386 Boudrias

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 12:54 PM

For those excited that the NHL offer is Bettman throwing the fans a bone forget it. Neither he or Fehr give a rat's ass about what the fans think. I guess that isn't totally true as the lockout could be undermining the NBC media deal.

I was one of those who thought there wouldn't be hockey this year. This NHL offer must give ownership enough that they can keep going for the next six years. Maybe they are buying the NHLPA thought that revenue will grow at 7% per year. I still find that a stretch in today's economy.

Can the players live under such a deal? I expect a Fehr counter which could sink the deal. Non the less the players could live with it. My main issue is whether all the franchises can. They had better do it right this time!
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#1387 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 01:00 PM

Woah woah woah. Some movement finally.

I see the NHL has decided to honour contracts, they will have to iron out the details of the salary cap. If that 55 mil is hard, you can expect Luongo to be dealt for next to nothing, Ballard to be waived and possibly Raymond moved too. I do like that the NHL has decided to honour the contracts over the length of the deal. They will have to move once again on contract lengths and UFA status. Lengths should be max 8 years, UFA should stay at 7.

Looking forward to the NHLPA's response. This is the starting point guys, expect negotiations to heat up for the next little while but NHLPA will likely use the entire 10 days to iron out the issues.
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#1388 theminister

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 01:14 PM

Found an article that helps explain the cap. I modified for the 50/50 split below. http://tinyurl.com/8kppxrc

Midpoint: ($3.3-billion x .50) - $90-million in benefits / 30 teams = $55-million
Inflator: 55-million x 1.05 = $57.75-million
Cap ceiling: $57.75-million + $8-million = estimated $65- to $66-million


I don't expect that level will be part of this offer. I'd be highly surprised if they kept the same spread.
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#1389 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 01:16 PM

If they are going to crunch 82 games in 5 months then player safety becomes the next issue. I think the NHL should increase roster sizes, maybe 25 players so guys can be rotated in on weeks where they inevitably play 5 times.
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#1390 gizmo2337

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 01:17 PM

If my calculation above are correct, the cap ceiling would be ~$65-66 million. That puts MIN, BOS, VAN, CGY, PHI over the cap, but fairly manageable. I haven't checked to see what other teams have LTIR relief.

For us, Kesler is on LTIR to start the season, so we are cap compliant without making any moves. When he returns, we'd have to shed ~2-3 million?

All of this is speculation of course. Not sure how the proposed AHL cap hit may work.
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#1391 gizmo2337

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 01:20 PM

I don't expect that level will be part of this offer. I'd be highly surprised if they kept the same spread.


Good point, we don't have that proposed information yet. Maybe it could go the other way and increase the ceiling and lower the floor?
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#1392 drdeath

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 01:23 PM

As expected, one side cracked, offered 50/50 and now the other side more or less has to accept or else they'll look absolutely horible in the public's eye. I was definitely expecting this offer to come from the players though.
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#1393 JoGuitar

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 01:47 PM

I think we're finally getting close to the deal we were all looking for when this all started. Too much posturing from both sides. This easily could have been renegotiated during the end of the last CBA. This default lockout bargaining techninique Bettman is so fond of has to go after this one is over. A lockout at the end of every CBA is just unacceptable.
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#1394 theminister

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 01:50 PM

Good point, we don't have that proposed information yet. Maybe it could go the other way and increase the ceiling and lower the floor?


That's what I'm thinking.
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#1395 goalie13

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 01:54 PM

If they are going to crunch 82 games in 5 months then player safety becomes the next issue. I think the NHL should increase roster sizes, maybe 25 players so guys can be rotated in on weeks where they inevitably play 5 times.


Or... he's another idea... eliminate max roster sizes. Each team should have a minimum roster size, but after that, let them carry as many guys as they want based on their salary cap. If you have a salary cap, why have a max roster size?

There's probably some issue with doing this that I am not thinking of right now, but beyond the risk of over-loading the press box, it might be win-win for both sides.
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#1396 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 02:02 PM

Or... he's another idea... eliminate max roster sizes. Each team should have a minimum roster size, but after that, let them carry as many guys as they want based on their salary cap. If you have a salary cap, why have a max roster size?

There's probably some issue with doing this that I am not thinking of right now, but beyond the risk of over-loading the press box, it might be win-win for both sides.


I'm good with that, but it's probably still around 25 guys. I mean forwards like Kesler playing 20 minutes a night, and defensemen like Edler playing 25, these guys will definitely need some relief. I'd have no issue sitting them against teams like Columbus in a 5 game week.

We'll see where this latest proposal takes us. I think the PA will want to negotiate some aspects of it, and figure out how the cap will change. Of the proposed changes: ELC to 4 years, max contract length to 5, and UFA at 28, which do you think the PA will concede on? I can't see them giving up all 3.
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#1397 SamJamIam

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 02:07 PM

Bettman has been Fehr's bitch for a while now. He knew he was going to have to suck it up and make a real offer. That said, a "poison pill" could very well be included in this deal. Bettman is likely to get passive aggressive once he's been forced to make 3 offers in a row. Still, the fact Fehr didn't just laugh at him and say "Stop screwing with us" is a very promising sign. He would have been on the lookout for Bettman's scheming, you can be sure.

Edited by nateb123, 16 October 2012 - 02:08 PM.

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#1398 goalie13

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 02:08 PM

I'm good with that, but it's probably still around 25 guys. I mean forwards like Kesler playing 20 minutes a night, and defensemen like Edler playing 25, these guys will definitely need some relief. I'd have no issue sitting them against teams like Columbus in a 5 game week.

We'll see where this latest proposal takes us. I think the PA will want to negotiate some aspects of it, and figure out how the cap will change. Of the proposed changes: ELC to 4 years, max contract length to 5, and UFA at 28, which do you think the PA will concede on? I can't see them giving up all 3.


It's a negotiation. I see so many people talking like this is the deal, but I am certain there will be several tweaks before the deal is done.

My biggest worry is the thought they will try to cram all 82 games in before mid-April.
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#1399 playboi19

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 02:09 PM

Lp
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#1400 elvis15

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 02:12 PM

Or... he's another idea... eliminate max roster sizes. Each team should have a minimum roster size, but after that, let them carry as many guys as they want based on their salary cap. If you have a salary cap, why have a max roster size?

There's probably some issue with doing this that I am not thinking of right now, but beyond the risk of over-loading the press box, it might be win-win for both sides.

The NHLPA may have some small concerns over more players not playing since that's the objective of the union, but at least they'd be getting an NHL paycheck if they're on a 2-way deal. There aren't a lot of cons to it, granted.

I'm good with that, but it's probably still around 25 guys. I mean forwards like Kesler playing 20 minutes a night, and defensemen like Edler playing 25, these guys will definitely need some relief. I'd have no issue sitting them against teams like Columbus in a 5 game week.
...

And that might be the con from the owner/fan side. Teams with high end talent are typically big draws, and fans paying to see their stars don't want to end up watching the second string just because their home team is Columbus. The owners want to have a good on ice product to ensure high ticket sales, and there are plenty of markets where fans need incentive to go to games.

Edited by elvis15, 16 October 2012 - 02:16 PM.

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#1401 goalie13

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 02:18 PM

The NHLPA may have some small concerns over more players not playing since that's the objective of the union, but at least they'd be getting an NHL paycheck if they're on a 2-way deal. There aren't a lot of cons to it, granted.


I wonder though, for guys on 2-way deals where they get paid less in the AHL, is it better to make more in the pressbox of an NHL rink or to make less on the ice of an AHL rink?

For an example... let's say they call up an extra couple of guys to deal with a compacted schedule. And those guys play half the games so that the core of the team doesn't wear itself out too much. Is that better than being on a top line of an AHL team? I've never played pro hockey, I wonder how they would answer.
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#1402 niklas

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 02:23 PM

Lp
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#1403 thad

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 02:41 PM

i feel like the hottest chick in the bar just grabbed my ass and im not sure if shes completely full of BS
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#1404 elvis15

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 02:50 PM

I wonder though, for guys on 2-way deals where they get paid less in the AHL, is it better to make more in the pressbox of an NHL rink or to make less on the ice of an AHL rink?

For an example... let's say they call up an extra couple of guys to deal with a compacted schedule. And those guys play half the games so that the core of the team doesn't wear itself out too much. Is that better than being on a top line of an AHL team? I've never played pro hockey, I wonder how they would answer.

If those of us as fans not nearly good enough to play at that level were in that situation, the obvious answer is more money in the press box, but it'd be interesting to hear if players would prefer to play, particularly younger players. I guess if you have enough fringe guys like Ebbett and Alberts that are in that situation anyway and a bit older, then they'd be more accepting as well.
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#1405 Pears

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 03:48 PM

Even though I still despise Bettman I gained a little more respect for him putting that offer of a 50/50 split down.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

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#1406 Everybody Hates Raymond

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 03:57 PM


Darren Dreger@DarrenDreger

NHLPA conf call has ended. Nothing certain, but a counter proposal is expected in next 24-48 hrs.


Looks like we're leaping miles closer to a season, boys. Get ready for November 2nd.



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#1407 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 04:04 PM

@SunGarrioch
The NHLPA call has ended. The union is working on a response to the offer today. #NHL #NHLPA
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#1408 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 04:04 PM

‏@BradZiemer
Aaron Volpatti close to signing a deal in Europe, but #Canucks winger may hold off for a few days given apparent progress on labour front.
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#1409 Everybody Hates Raymond

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 04:10 PM

@SunGarrioch
The NHLPA call has ended. The union is working on a response to the offer today. #NHL #NHLPA


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#1410 Garrison

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 04:18 PM

So do you think the Russians will stay in the KHL? Or come back on this new deal? I believe the majority will come back. I'm pretty stoked. I still think the deal might be a little ways off as the NHLPA will make a few adjustments but I'm hopeful there will be a season. I was loosing hope. A whole 82 game season is pretty nuts though in that time frame. I think 70 would be more ideal.



I'm now worried about the Kesler and Edler injuries. We are not going to have a strong start.

Edited by Garrison, 16 October 2012 - 04:19 PM.

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