gradin123 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 It's not like Bryz said anything untrue. The only issue is the KHL isn't a bottomless bank either. If they have to pay bigger money to get the big superstars, they'll feet the strain as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Signing and breaking contracts (via clawback) without good reason is bad business - it smacks of being out of control and using the expiry of the CBA as a stopgap doesn't impress. I agree that the players should not agree unless something is proposed that doesn't inevitably lead to another lookout as soon as this CBA expires. That said they are taking a financial loss on principle here so I hope it works out for them. The owners I don't understand at all since as a league they are taking a financial loss on a bottom line issue. Locking out when the league is profitable is a bizarre move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 The KHL is run by billionaire Oil Tycoons who don't care if they make money on hockey. You are right though in that it can't be sustained without opening up new markets. They are trying to get into Western Europe however and the longer this NHL lockout goes the stronger the KHL could become. The more they can expand and get better TV contracts the more players they will be able to attract and that would all be helped by all the NHL'ers playing abroad. If this NHL lockout lasts over one season don't be surprised to see the KHL playing in Western Europe this time next year with a decent north american TV contract. The next step would be a North Amercian expansion. That is how the players can win this. The owners went into this lockout thinking they held all the cards and the players would cave. They better realize soon that Donald Fehr isn't the caving type and that they actually could hurt their own product forever! Gary Bettman is leading them all down the wrong path this time. Maybe he will be smart enough to realize it before the season is cancelled and actually comprise instead of just expecting the players to give more and more and using Lockouts as a negotiating tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Doctor Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 It's time to uses SCABs LOL. Bring hockey back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I wonder how they can even run a league when the owners and players clearly have no respect for each other. I think this league has too many greedy businessmen that are not actually fans of the game. Bettman seems to just install ownership on the basis of having money, and nothing else. Ballsille was a potential owner that had the money, and was a fan of the game. Yet Bettman just dismissed him for other owners that ended up not having enough money, and eventually the deals fell through. There's a reason why you don't see lockouts in other sports as often. The players and owners in those leagues have mutual respect for each other and the game. And deals for new CBAs get done in those leagues, because both sides are willing to work together, not against each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I wonder how they can even run a league when the owners and players clearly have no respect for each other. I think this league has too many greedy businessmen that are not actually fans of the game. Bettman seems to just install ownership on the basis of having money, and nothing else. Ballsille was a potential owner that had the money, and was a fan of the game. Yet Bettman just dismissed him for other owners that ended up not having enough money, and eventually the deals fell through. There's a reason why you don't see lockouts in other sports as often. The players and owners in those leagues have mutual respect for each other and the game. And deals for new CBAs get done in those leagues, because both sides are willing to work together, not against each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gradin123 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Both parties have the right to with hold their participation in a new CBA unless the terms meet their needs. Lockout or strike. Obviously the owners feel their concerns are enough to warrant a lock out. If ownership can be 'lead' by Bettman then perhaps they deserve a unkindly fate. I suggest they are experienced businessmen and can crunch their own numbers. I agree that they are risking their businesses in this process but to suggest that weight is only on their shoulders is ignoring the reality that players face. If life was so good in the KHL then the exodus back to the NHL would not have been as great as it was. The NHL players face an equal risk as ownership. If the NHL deteriorates then not only will their compensation ultimately shrink but the possible number of jobs might be reduced significantly. One might wish that both sides would take a pragmatic approach and an agreement be reached. I suspect there are some who view this dispute as a question of 'gonads' but the bigger group are simply fighting over money. Ownership has the responsibility of delivering certainty to the many constituencies they are accountable to. The ultimate deal here will require that if the NHL business plan has any hope of succeeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckelhead70 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Think about, imagine you worked for a company that one day signed you to a contract and the next day said give us back 20% and if you don't like it quit. And then said you don't have any good alternatives so take it or leave it. Now even though they may be right in terms of pay do you really want to work for a company that treats you with that much disrespect? Bettman is out of control and the players have to stand up to him at some point. A long work stoppage now may be the best thing in the longterm. Look at baseball, after Fehr beat the owners in 1994 and stood up to them they haven't come close to a work stoppage since and revenues continue to grow and almost everyteam is making money. All sides are happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 It easier to have respect when you are making lots of money. I am talking off the top but I assume that MLB, NBA and NFL are light years ahead of the NHL. As Canadians we want that pump about our favorite sport but the big bucks are not in the NHL yet. In the other leagues I mentioned the players don't come close to 57% of revenues either. Basillie was shot down because he was buying a NHL team on the cheap and wanting to move it into Southern Ontario. I expect that if the NHL put an expansion team up for bid in that area that the bidding would start at $300 mil. Why would the NHL owners give that kind of dough away? Easy to move a team from Atlanta to Winnipeg, nothing for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sting Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Maybe the MLB and NFL are bad examples, but it's not like they don't have their fair share of greedy owners too that are always looking to take more from the players. Yet somehow they get deals done. The NBA actually has quite a few struggling teams much like the NHL. Obviously the NBA makes alot more money, but at the same time, players get paid more. Somehow revenue sharing has seemed to stabilize that league, and deals get done without losing full seasons, for the most part. Maybe fans of those leagues are just better at putting pressure on these owners. I dunno, the average NHL fan seems to just accept a lockout as an enevitability nowadays without putting up too much fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckelhead70 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I think the NBA and NFL are good examples. The NHL owners are looking for equalization just like these forementioned leagues have put in place. The NFL players get 47% and the NBA is 50%. NHL players have seen salaries rise at 7% annually for over a decade and the owners simply want a rollback in salaries that will essentially come back at roughly 50% from 57%. Donald Fehr is an idiot if he thinks holding out an entire season will change any of this. The notion of NHL players as a whole going to Europe and working for anything remotely close to what they could earn in North America is moronic. The owners initial proposal of 43% was just that. No one starts a negotiation on a purchase with the exact number they plan to pay . Hopefully they can work this out sooner than later. It will really suck when there is no Lions, Whitecaps, MLB playoffs and NFL to watch alternatively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballisticsports. Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Think about, imagine you worked for a company that one day signed you to a contract and the next day said give us back 20% and if you don't like it quit. And then said you don't have any good alternatives so take it or leave it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiDeN Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Of course that's a comment to make a point with. If I sign a contract with Telus, and they say that I actually owe them 20% more, then I'd be pissed. If I rent my basement for $1000 a month, then tell my tenant that it's actually going to cost $1200, then he'd be pissed. How is it even legal for the league to amend all previously signed contracts? I understand changing the rules for new contracts, but not old ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I just watched TSN's "Insider Trading" segment from yesterday, and what infuriates is how calmly and how matter-of-factly these guys talk about the whole thing. I want to hear some ANGER, some PASSION. I want these guys to look directly into the camera and tell both factions that THEY ARE DOING WRONG. Fehr & Bettman need to be locked in a room, and given 48 hours to come up with a deal, or find new jobs. Let Parkinson's Law take effect. The "complexity" that they're talking about with a deal like this is total BS - it's a battle of egos, and it's not acceptable to the fans. HRR is not hard to define, and a fair split should not be difficult whatsoever. Seriously, I think there's an onus on these media types to play a bigger role in this. Help create ANGER towards these two groups. Far too many fans seem to be accepting of this now as "part of the business", which is crap. These guys have theoretically had 8 years to develop an extension to this deal, and they started talking 2 months before its expiry. That's unacceptable, and there should be a bigger public outcry than what currently exists, for a lockout based ENTIRELY on greed. We hear it on local radio stations, regularly, as to how foolish this is, but it needs to be spread more publicly. Serious hate/anger by the public will absolutely have an influence on the urgency to get this done. National media has the platform to do this, and it's about time that they started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I think the NBA and NFL are good examples. The NHL owners are looking for equalization just like these forementioned leagues have put in place. The NFL players get 47% and the NBA is 50%. NHL players have seen salaries rise at 7% annually for over a decade and the owners simply want a rollback in salaries that will essentially come back at roughly 50% from 57%. Donald Fehr is an idiot if he thinks holding out an entire season will change any of this. The notion of NHL players as a whole going to Europe and working for anything remotely close to what they could earn in North America is moronic. The owners initial proposal of 43% was just that. No one starts a negotiation on a purchase with the exact number they plan to pay . Hopefully they can work this out sooner than later. It will really suck when there is no Lions, Whitecaps, MLB playoffs and NFL to watch alternatively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Big (or maybe expected) news out of Alberta: @DarrenDreger Haven't scanned other reports, but, told Alberta Labor Board sides with NHL. Awaiting further details. Awaiting word from NHLPA, but, sounds like a flat out win for the NHL in Alberta. Will advise as info surfaces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckelhead70 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Big (or maybe expected) news out of Alberta: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Nolan Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 No progress again at todays meetings, meaning ive lost all hope.. Maybe next year.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Daly said that very little progress was made today, and apparently they didn't even talk about money. All they talked about was drug testing... Why are they even bothering to meet? They're just going through the motions and making it look like they're working on something. If they were actually serious, they would spend a full week of full day meetings trying to hammer out numbers. Not meeting for 4 hours here and 4 hours there. It's a joke. What do these people get paid for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lui's Knob Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 NHL and NHLPA will choke on their own money. I see a new league forming and players get only a fraction if what they used to. Fehr is a baseball man not a hockey minded guy and will take it too far. Bettman will shut down the season and then sit on the fact fans will be lost and moved along to other things never to return for this post lockout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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