Jump to content

Welcome to canucks.com Vancouver Canucks homepage

Photo
* * - - - 3 votes

*Official* CBA Negotiations and Lockout Thread


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
6226 replies to this topic

#181 Wolfman Jack

Wolfman Jack

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,570 posts
  • Joined: 27-April 07

Posted 15 August 2012 - 04:42 AM

No, but if you make $2M per year and want more, then yes.

So are the players greedy because they accept the idiotic offers the owners throw out? Sorry I have no sympathy for the owners, they are the ones who caused all the problems, salaries are too high? Whose fault is that? The owners decide how much they pay in salaries, stop spending money you don't have. Stop making ridiculous offers, stop exploiting loopholes in the salary cap you threw an entire season away to get. It is the owners who are after more not the players, what I see is a dictator of a president who desperately wants to protect his mistakes in Phoenix, Columbus, Florida, etc and wants the players to pay for it instead of the financially irresponsible owners like the Flyers and Rangers who drove the salaries out of this world with ridiculous contracts in the first place. The owners can't figure out how to divide their piece of the pie so they want to take a chunk out of the players piece with no plan on how to divide that either, with both sides raising a middle finger to the ones who baked the pie in the first place, the fans.

Edited by Norman Clegg, 15 August 2012 - 04:44 AM.

  • 2
Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.
Blaise Pascal

#182 Ghostsof1915

Ghostsof1915

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 24,527 posts
  • Joined: 31-January 07

Posted 15 August 2012 - 08:13 AM

That last sentence is interesting. The job of the commisioner or of the NHL if you want is NOT to do what is best for the game of hockey. It is to do what is best for the current owners of NHL franchises. This is not a public service, it is a business.


So what's in the best interest of the league is to have a team bleed money in losses, then have the owner bail on the team and have the NHL struggle for years with a money losing team and they still can't find an owner? If it was a business then Bettman would have jumped over the Balsillie deal as he bought it at or above market value. I highly doubt NBC has provisions that if there's no hockey in Phoenix they will dump the TV deal.
  • 0
GO CANUCKS GO!
"The Canucks did not lose in 1994. They just ran out of time.." Barry MacDonald Team1040

Posted Image

#183 sedated

sedated

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,728 posts
  • Joined: 08-October 05

Posted 15 August 2012 - 09:01 AM

It's not about the players being 'greedy' as much as it's right now, the players get a bigger % of everything, and the owners want to do more 50/50 + revenue sharing like every other major sports league is doing right now, which are all also making more money than hockey right now.

The contracts are ridiculous, but it's not the owner's fault. The players DEMAND that much before they sign, so don't blame the owners for ridiculous contracts when it's the players trying to get them. Revenue sharing and a more even split of things would be better for the league as a whole.

I am all for helping out the struggling teams and giving everyone a better shot.
  • 0

#184 sedated

sedated

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,728 posts
  • Joined: 08-October 05

Posted 15 August 2012 - 09:09 AM

The owners and league are also the ones that want to limit contracts to 5 years instead of the massive ones coming out now, not the other way around. If the league and owners were greedy, I doubt they'd be doing something that would make them unable to offer out big contracts.
  • 0

#185 Sugar baby watermelon

Sugar baby watermelon

    Canucks Second-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,132 posts
  • Joined: 15-September 11

Posted 15 August 2012 - 11:41 AM

I skate on your crew like Mario Lemieux!!! Yeyay!!! Bust it Bettman!!! You Busta
  • 0

#186 Sugar baby watermelon

Sugar baby watermelon

    Canucks Second-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,132 posts
  • Joined: 15-September 11

Posted 15 August 2012 - 11:44 AM

Yo microphone check one two what is this, the five foot assasin,(Bettman), with the roughneck business, i float like gravity never had a cavity like the warner got family, hahhahahahaha, you busterssss
  • 0

#187 -Vintage Canuck-

-Vintage Canuck-

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 73,796 posts
  • Joined: 24-May 10

Posted 15 August 2012 - 11:59 AM

Gary Bettman says he's disappointed that the league still doesn't have a full proposal from the NHLPA. Says a "wide gap" remains.
  • 0

307mg00.jpg


#188 Lui's Knob

Lui's Knob

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,992 posts
  • Joined: 13-May 10

Posted 15 August 2012 - 12:13 PM

Bettman says still far apart...with no meetings scheduled again until next week... Looking like the NHL is going for another full lockout year... Quite pathetic. If they go a full season during us economic woes NHL teams will fold.
  • 0

#189 MoneypuckOverlord

MoneypuckOverlord

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,519 posts
  • Joined: 24-September 09

Posted 15 August 2012 - 12:36 PM

So are the players greedy because they accept the idiotic offers the owners throw out? Sorry I have no sympathy for the owners, they are the ones who caused all the problems, salaries are too high? Whose fault is that? The owners decide how much they pay in salaries, stop spending money you don't have. Stop making ridiculous offers, stop exploiting loopholes in the salary cap you threw an entire season away to get. It is the owners who are after more not the players, what I see is a dictator of a president who desperately wants to protect his mistakes in Phoenix, Columbus, Florida, etc and wants the players to pay for it instead of the financially irresponsible owners like the Flyers and Rangers who drove the salaries out of this world with ridiculous contracts in the first place. The owners can't figure out how to divide their piece of the pie so they want to take a chunk out of the players piece with no plan on how to divide that either, with both sides raising a middle finger to the ones who baked the pie in the first place, the fans.


wrong dude. Most teams in the NHL are losing money. A

So are the players greedy because they accept the idiotic offers the owners throw out? Sorry I have no sympathy for the owners, they are the ones who caused all the problems, salaries are too high? Whose fault is that? The owners decide how much they pay in salaries, stop spending money you don't have. Stop making ridiculous offers, stop exploiting loopholes in the salary cap you threw an entire season away to get. It is the owners who are after more not the players, what I see is a dictator of a president who desperately wants to protect his mistakes in Phoenix, Columbus, Florida, etc and wants the players to pay for it instead of the financially irresponsible owners like the Flyers and Rangers who drove the salaries out of this world with ridiculous contracts in the first place. The owners can't figure out how to divide their piece of the pie so they want to take a chunk out of the players piece with no plan on how to divide that either, with both sides raising a middle finger to the ones who baked the pie in the first place, the fans.


You talk like a mind reader. AS I recall, the managers do 100% of the negotiating with the players agents. I wasn't aware that Owners were doing the negotiating. What you say is news to me. Wether we like it or not, the Owners don't want to operate under this current cba. Sorry bro, but I am siding with the owners here. Not that I approve their first offfer, but still.
  • 0

Players Nikolaj Ehlers have been compared too by the fan base of the Vancouver Canucks.

 

1 Pavel Bure

2 Markus Naslund

3 Nathan Mackkinon

4 Jonathan Drouin.

5 Jonathan Tavares

 

http://bleacherrepor...d-top-prospects

combine results.  Ehlers 5'11 162 lbs of solid rock.  


#190 Provost

Provost

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,910 posts
  • Joined: 05-September 03

Posted 15 August 2012 - 12:51 PM

wrong dude. Most teams in the NHL are losing money.


That is simply not true, I have no idea where you got that idea. The league revenue has doubled over the past 7 years and most teams are doing remarkably well.

A very good hint that there are no real economic issues with the NHL is that fact that this time around Bettman is not giving any specifics... very different from last time where they had very good business cases as to the issues.

This is quickly seeming to become an ego issue and I despair of any agreement while Bettman is running the show. He does not seem to have the ability to actually be honest and partner with the players to improve the game and league. He wants to win at any cost.

In his interview today he couldn't help but make continual digs at the union and Fehr to try to assign blame to them for everything.

Edited by Provost, 15 August 2012 - 12:55 PM.

  • 0
Protons have mass? I didn't even know they were Catholic!

#191 Drybone

Drybone

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,403 posts
  • Joined: 01-July 12

Posted 15 August 2012 - 01:34 PM

In my opinion this is just more sabre rattling.The NHL nor the players have nothing to gain by a lockout. I expect a whole pile of whinng and moaning and posturing on both sides before finally agreeing to an extension or a new CBA.
  • 0
Posted Image

#192 chisoxin12

chisoxin12

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,610 posts
  • Joined: 28-July 09

Posted 15 August 2012 - 01:52 PM

Wasn't Leopold part of the Nashville group that brought in a guy named bugsy, or bootsy, something like that? Somehow, he ends up owning the Wild. Didn't he plead poverty, and up and until he signed Parise and Suter plead poverty? Funny how these guys are in Bettmans' inner circle. They deserve one another.

Edited by chisoxin12, 15 August 2012 - 01:53 PM.

  • 0

#193 etsen3

etsen3

    Canucks Second-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,689 posts
  • Joined: 02-July 10

Posted 15 August 2012 - 02:01 PM

Bettman says still far apart...with no meetings scheduled again until next week... Looking like the NHL is going for another full lockout year... Quite pathetic. If they go a full season during us economic woes NHL teams will fold.


What pisses me off the most if how both sides have been draggin their feet so much on this. It took them weeks after the season ended to finally start negotiating, saying they had lots of time. Now when it becomes little more urgent, they're still only holding meetings every couple weeks. Even if they didn't see it taking this long at first(which they should have prepared for anyways), why not start picking it up now, knowing that time is running out?

Edited by etsen3, 15 August 2012 - 02:01 PM.

  • 0

#194 Samuel Påhlsson

Samuel Påhlsson

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 684 posts
  • Joined: 29-February 12

Posted 15 August 2012 - 02:05 PM

If we didn't all have day jobs we could lock the league out of their offices. Bet they wouldn't see that coming.
  • 0

SYvE9NH.gif


#195 Tanev's Smirk

Tanev's Smirk

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,450 posts
  • Joined: 30-August 09

Posted 15 August 2012 - 02:10 PM

If we didn't all have day jobs we could lock the league out of their offices. Bet they wouldn't see that coming.


They probably have a second office under construction with all the money they've taken from the players. So it wouldn't really do any good.
  • 0

#196 Hugemanskost

Hugemanskost

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,382 posts
  • Joined: 31-December 09

Posted 15 August 2012 - 02:47 PM



TORONTO — With one month to go before the NHL’s collective bargaining agreement expires, the league and players seem no closer to a deal than when talks began in June.

In fact, the divide may have grown even further.

It took commissioner Gary Bettman less than 24 hours to conclude that the first proposal from the NHL Players’ Association held little appeal for the owners.

“There’s still a wide gap between us with not much time to go,” Bettman said Wednesday.

“I do think it’s fair to say that the sides are still apart — far apart — and have different views of the world and the issues,” he added.

They were hardly encouraging comments for those hoping to see the league avoid its second lockout in as many negotiations, and the third on Bettman’s watch. The current CBA expires Sept. 15 and Bettman has already made it clear that the league will enact a work stoppage if a new deal isn’t in place by then.

On Tuesday, the union put forth a proposal that included a smaller percentage of revenues for players over the next three seasons in exchange for an expanded revenue sharing program to help struggling teams. The NHLPA estimated that players would be giving up US$465 million in salaries if the league continued on its pace of seven per cent growth each season.

However, that math didn’t add up for the league.

“I think it’s fair to say that we value the proposal and what it means in terms of its economics differently than the players’ association does,” said Bettman. “I think there still are a number of issues where we’re looking at the world differently. I’m not sure that there has yet been a recognition of the economics in our world — and I mean the greater world and the sports industry, taking into account what recently happened with the NFL and the NBA.”

Both of those sports leagues went through recent lockouts before ultimately seeing the players’ share in revenue reduced. The NHL’s initial proposal called for a significant reduction from 57 per cent to 43 per cent, when factoring in changes to the way revenue is calculated.

It would be nowhere near that drastic in the offer put forth from the NHLPA.

Donald Fehr, the union’s executive director, bristled at the parallels Bettman drew to other sports leagues — “every sport has its own economics,” he said — and indicated that the gap in talks was created by the NHL’s initial proposal in July.

“There’s a pretty substantial monetary gulf which is there and when you start with the proposal the owners made how could it be otherwise?” said Fehr. “I mean consider what the proposal was: It is ‘let’s move salaries back to where they were before the (2004-05) lockout started, back to the last time.’ That’s basically what it was.

“‘We had a 24 per cent reduction last time, let’s have another one.’ That was the proposal. That’s what creates the gulf.”

The sides broke off from talks with two completely different offers on the table and no meaningful negotiation sessions planned for a week. They’ll gather again in Toronto on Aug. 22.

Fehr was disappointed the owners weren’t more receptive to what he viewed as two significant concessions in the NHLPA’s offer — the fact it included the hard salary cap won by owners in the last round of negotiations and called for a drag on the amount of money they’re paid.

The strong words and wide gap left many feeling like another lockout was in the offing. There wasn’t much Bettman could offer when asked what he might say to fans concerned about the possibility.

“I don’t have an appetite either to not have hockey, so we’re all in agreement on that,” Bettman said. “I know what the game means and I know how important it is for our franchises and our game to be healthy from an economic standpoint and we’re working very, very hard.

“It takes two sides to make a deal, it takes two sides to negotiate and it takes two sides if it all goes bad. We’re working very hard hopefully to keep it from going bad.”



© COPYRIGHT - POSTMEDIA NEWS


What say you fellow CDC'ers? What say you? I for one don't like it.


:towel: :canucks:

  • 0

webkit-fake-url://D8829558-F65F-49B9-9829-A7DFC7F2E6E4/application.pdf


:towel: :canucks:


#197 CanucksFanMike

CanucksFanMike

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,632 posts
  • Joined: 28-September 11

Posted 15 August 2012 - 02:50 PM

The players put together a very reasonable proposal.... I can understand the owners wanting to tilt it a little bit more in their favour but saying no to it outright would make the NHL look really bad, especially because the players seem willing to compromise.

C'mon Betman please no lockout!
  • 0
Posted Image
Credit to -Vintage Canuck-

#198 Hobble

Hobble

    Canucks All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,687 posts
  • Joined: 27-June 07

Posted 15 August 2012 - 02:50 PM

Bettman is a boob. And not a nice looking one either.

Edited by Hobble, 15 August 2012 - 02:50 PM.

  • 0

#199 Ron Swansons Moustache

Ron Swansons Moustache

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,324 posts
  • Joined: 05-February 10

Posted 15 August 2012 - 02:55 PM

How bout Bettman rolls back some of his 8 million a year he gets paid? Its only fair.
  • 1
http://Posted Image

#200 coastal1

coastal1

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 730 posts
  • Joined: 27-June 12

Posted 15 August 2012 - 03:09 PM

The players put together a very reasonable proposal.... I can understand the owners wanting to tilt it a little bit more in their favour but saying no to it outright would make the NHL look really bad, especially because the players seem willing to compromise.

C'mon Betman please no lockout!

A very reasonable proposal??? You realy think Aquillini sees this as reasonable. It is very simple what the players have said: we know there are many teams in trouble but instead of us taking a pay cut to correct things, we think the owners of the teams that make money should do that. It is well-known that the 'rich' teams are dead set against more revenue sharing. The Fehr proposal is a direct attack on Bettman and now we have a war. As Bettman says it: 2 different views of the world. There will not be NHL hockey for a very long time. And this is NOT about Bettman. Fehr is as, if not more, responsible as his counteroffer is as offensive as the NHL original offer was. Of course Crosby says he likes it, the players gave up peanuts and told the owners how to run their business. Wow, what a declaration of war by Fehr.
  • 0

#201 coastal1

coastal1

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 730 posts
  • Joined: 27-June 12

Posted 15 August 2012 - 03:11 PM

What pisses me off the most if how both sides have been draggin their feet so much on this. It took them weeks after the season ended to finally start negotiating, saying they had lots of time. Now when it becomes little more urgent, they're still only holding meetings every couple weeks. Even if they didn't see it taking this long at first(which they should have prepared for anyways), why not start picking it up now, knowing that time is running out?

Do you not think both sides wanted it that way? Obviously both sides think they can outlast the other after the lock out starts. Last time the owners won. Who is bluffing this time?
  • 0

#202 DIBdaQUIB

DIBdaQUIB

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,030 posts
  • Joined: 21-November 10

Posted 15 August 2012 - 03:32 PM

A very reasonable proposal??? You realy think Aquillini sees this as reasonable. It is very simple what the players have said: we know there are many teams in trouble but instead of us taking a pay cut to correct things, we think the owners of the teams that make money should do that. It is well-known that the 'rich' teams are dead set against more revenue sharing. The Fehr proposal is a direct attack on Bettman and now we have a war. As Bettman says it: 2 different views of the world. There will not be NHL hockey for a very long time. And this is NOT about Bettman. Fehr is as, if not more, responsible as his counteroffer is as offensive as the NHL original offer was. Of course Crosby says he likes it, the players gave up peanuts and told the owners how to run their business. Wow, what a declaration of war by Fehr.


How would you respond to being asked by your employer - after building his business to 3X what it was on your last contract - to take a second 24% pay cut?!!

The owners decided to expand into stupid markets. The owners decided to throw stupid money a Free Agent players and now that some teams are struggling, they want the players to take a pay cut so that all tehowners can be profitable.

I'm no trade-unionist but it seems to me that the owners have mis-managed the business model and want the players (employees) to pay for their mistakes. You only have to look at the money they have put into Phoenix to see how badly they have run their business.
  • 3

#203 coastal1

coastal1

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 730 posts
  • Joined: 27-June 12

Posted 15 August 2012 - 03:40 PM

How would you respond to being asked by your employer - after building his business to 3X what it was on your last contract - to take a second 24% pay cut?!!

The owners decided to expand into stupid markets. The owners decided to throw stupid money a Free Agent players and now that some teams are struggling, they want the players to take a pay cut so that all tehowners can be profitable.

I'm no trade-unionist but it seems to me that the owners have mis-managed the business model and want the players (employees) to pay for their mistakes. You only have to look at the money they have put into Phoenix to see how badly they have run their business.

I am not saying the players like the NHL offer. I was responding to the comment that the players' proposal was very reasonable. If the players are so smart, then put your money where your mouth is and start your own league since they know everything.
  • 0

#204 Dragonfruits

Dragonfruits

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,932 posts
  • Joined: 05-January 08

Posted 15 August 2012 - 03:42 PM

ok i am watching a video on tsn so whats this about him saying they don't have all the proposals from players to make a counter
  • 0

#205 sQuish

sQuish

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,312 posts
  • Joined: 01-February 04

Posted 15 August 2012 - 03:44 PM

I'm no Bettman fan but there are clear problems in the NHL that need to be addressed which are being relatively ignored by the NHLPA. The owners cannot simply sit there and watch as more and more teams turn in annual losses in the tens or hundreds of millions.

Bettman's references to the "world outside of hockey" is a clear indication that many teams are suffering due to the economic downturn, yet they're still forced to pay ridiculously high salaries. The whole United States is suffering, many have lost jobs/homes/livelihoods, yet the players think they are immune to this? You don't see average joe in the states walk into his boss's office and demand a raise or more revenue sharing. Average joe is just happy he HAS a job. NHL players are greedy and live in their own little hockey universe and have no idea what the rest of the country is going through.

And to be fair to Bettman, he's more-so a puppet/scapegoat for the owners. His job is to increase revenue and work on behalf of the OWNERS. It's them that are pushing a lockout.
  • 0

#206 Dragonfruits

Dragonfruits

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,932 posts
  • Joined: 05-January 08

Posted 15 August 2012 - 03:50 PM

if they want the players salaries back to a normal level whatever they consider that maybe they should get rid of the cap floor then teams wouldn't be throwing 5 million dollars around to players who should only be making 2-3 million dollars and get rid of the 100m contracts just so teams can sell tickets and grab the big free agent
  • 0

#207 King Heffy

King Heffy

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,921 posts
  • Joined: 12-April 10

Posted 15 August 2012 - 03:50 PM

If the players are so smart, then put your money where your mouth is and start your own league since they know everything.


I'm all for this. Don't hire any of the NHL refs unless they pass a test on the rulebook.

Seriously, if the league is in as much trouble as Bettman claims, he isn't even doing his job of making the owners money. Just because the owners don't want to subsidize Pheonix doesn't mean the players should.
  • 0

CMc20QE.gif

 

Put Gino in the ROH


#208 D-Money

D-Money

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,227 posts
  • Joined: 14-February 06

Posted 15 August 2012 - 03:51 PM

If there's one thing Donald Fehr seems to be good at, it is making the players seem very fair and reasonable. He has them unified, and sounding professional.

It's going to be a lot harder for Bettman and the owners to have fan support for a lockout this time.
  • 0
Posted Image

#209 Drive-By Body Pierce

Drive-By Body Pierce

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,036 posts
  • Joined: 09-October 08

Posted 15 August 2012 - 03:53 PM

While the situation certainly isn't 100% positive, this article definitely paints a much darker picture than the impression I got from just watching the interviews. Fehr, in particular, remains fairly optimistic. Bettman's a douche, and will always be a douche as far as I'm concerned. So anything from him that is short of completely outrageous, is progress in my books.
  • 0

Posted Image


#210 Aladeen

Aladeen

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,722 posts
  • Joined: 22-September 07

Posted 15 August 2012 - 04:00 PM

Millionaires arguing with Billionaires good problems to have!
  • 0
Posted Image




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Canucks.com is the official Web site of The Vancouver Canucks. The Vancouver Canucks and Canucks.com are trademarks of The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership.  NHL and the word mark and image of the Stanley Cup are registered trademarks and the NHL Shield and NHL Conference logos are trademarks of the National Hockey League. All NHL logos and marks and NHL team logos and marks as well as all other proprietary materials depicted herein are the property of the NHL and the respective NHL teams and may not be reproduced without the prior written consent of NHL Enterprises, L.P.  Copyright © 2009 The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership and the National Hockey League.  All Rights Reserved.