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*Official* CBA Negotiations and Lockout Thread


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#2701 Drybone

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 10:49 PM

And yet people assume the Owners need the NHL lol the NHL is just another dollar in their pocket...the players need the NHL more than the owners..the owners can wait much more longer than the players lol Caving time is near.~!


You are wasting your time. They just want to SPIN what they want to believe. They want to believe the union has power of any kind. They cannot possibly fathom the fact the owners OWN the league and the NHLPA has no actual bargaining power.
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#2702 Radaloo

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 10:56 PM

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I'm done. Really.

STH for 10 years calliI'ng the Canucks tomorrow to cancel my seats.

I hate greedy billionaire owners who even if they saved 10 - 20% of thier costs won't even think of dropping ticket prices! Makes me want to puke......

I hate greedy players who are crying because they will only make 1.8 mil a year instead of 2.2 mil. Athletes, actors and the like are way overpaid!!!

Schleps like us bustin' our humps to make a living and I am going to spend $8,000.00 a year on filling these whiners pockets?????

People homeless here or starving in war torn countries or living in catastrophic conditions all over the world. And these pigs can't come to grips with how they want to divide up our money????

Pox on all thier houses!

Some poor sucker on the blueline waiting list can have them!!!!!!!! Seriously Vancouver FANS, get a grip. Spend your money on people who deserve and appreciate it!

There I feel better already :-)

Over and out.
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#2703 Navyblue

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 11:00 PM

about what and why?


About being so darn articulate. Because no one likes a show off ;)
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#2704 ba;;isticsports

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 11:07 PM

Oh, I see. I understand your point, but I don't think you can compare a sports franchise to any other kind of business. It's not. It's tied to and limited by other businesses in an artificial market.

And it's not like owners don't know going in what the business is like. None of them bought a team thinking they were gold mines only to find out the were black pits. They were, I'm sure, made fully aware of the financial situation before buying in.

Also, owners have a say in how much they pay players, so it seems silly for them to complain about something they have control over. If it were a real problem, they could just pay them less. But of course, the smart owner knows that big name players tend to generate higher revenue, making them good (when selected smartly) investments.

Many have argued, as you seem to be, that teams losing money should be allowed to fold but that will likely not happen because the teams need one another. More teams mean more games, which in turn means more revenue for the financially successful teams. A better plan, as many have suggested, is to move unsuccessful teams to better hockey markets. The only other real option is sufficient team revenue sharing.

In the end, it all comes down to owners taking responsibility for their own businesses.



Actually,Thats harder being an Owner than a player. The Owners dont get guaranteed income like the players do
They need fans to come to the games to make their money,sell merchandise etc
Corporates and fans may find it to hard to spend money on hockey, especially now


"And it's not like owners don't know going in what the business is like. None of them bought a team thinking they were gold mines only to find out the were black pits. They were, I'm sure, made fully aware of the financial situation before buying in."

I think some bought on speculation and potential, Even strong markets have died


Alot of times the weaker teams are forced to pay more than they can afford to players. If the rich teams keep stealing and signing the stars. No fan wants to be a farm team for the rich teams and have no stars on their team to see.


Take away 6 or so teams make the Teams of better quality,play the same amount of games,maybe instead of playing a team an eastern team 2x you make it 6x. Create more rivalries
Moving a team everytime You have a problem is not very stable or the answer I dont believe
Winnipeg/Colorado lost teams then returned, now maybe Quebec City?
Vancouver probabily would have too as others
I think You take the ones who have shown no growth,no strong support at all no potential and skid them

They are fighting over how to keep this working
You state "In the end, it all comes down to owners taking responsibility for their own businesses."
I agree if after a certain amount of time instead of the better off teams and players keeping them on life support- Pull the plug on their life support and let the League grow at a pace where interest and quality players/refs dictate

The fans will be better off for it
Screw them fighting over themselves, that does nothing for Our interests
That is why I no longer take sides, and still suprised by people who do to some point
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#2705 Ghostsof1915

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 11:47 PM

I'm done. Really.

STH for 10 years calliI'ng the Canucks tomorrow to cancel my seats.

I hate greedy billionaire owners who even if they saved 10 - 20% of thier costs won't even think of dropping ticket prices! Makes me want to puke......

I hate greedy players who are crying because they will only make 1.8 mil a year instead of 2.2 mil. Athletes, actors and the like are way overpaid!!!

Schleps like us bustin' our humps to make a living and I am going to spend $8,000.00 a year on filling these whiners pockets?????

People homeless here or starving in war torn countries or living in catastrophic conditions all over the world. And these pigs can't come to grips with how they want to divide up our money????

Pox on all thier houses!

Some poor sucker on the blueline waiting list can have them!!!!!!!! Seriously Vancouver FANS, get a grip. Spend your money on people who deserve and appreciate it!

There I feel better already :-)

Over and out.


Kudos Radaloo. Since I don't have season's tickets, my only way of fighting back is not buying merchandise or even NHL13.
I wish more season ticket holders did the same. THAT WOULD SEND A MESSAGE!

Every revolution starts with one person saying. "I'm sick of this crap and I'm going to do something about it."

Wake up NHL/NHLPA your customers are really ticked off.
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GO CANUCKS GO!
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#2706 The-Impersonator

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:04 AM

I'm done. Really.

STH for 10 years calliI'ng the Canucks tomorrow to cancel my seats.

I hate greedy billionaire owners who even if they saved 10 - 20% of thier costs won't even think of dropping ticket prices! Makes me want to puke......

I hate greedy players who are crying because they will only make 1.8 mil a year instead of 2.2 mil. Athletes, actors and the like are way overpaid!!!

Schleps like us bustin' our humps to make a living and I am going to spend $8,000.00 a year on filling these whiners pockets?????

People homeless here or starving in war torn countries or living in catastrophic conditions all over the world. And these pigs can't come to grips with how they want to divide up our money????

Pox on all thier houses!



Some poor sucker on the blueline waiting list can have them!!!!!!!! Seriously Vancouver FANS, get a grip. Spend your money on people who deserve and appreciate it!

There I feel better already :-)

Over and out.


Let me know how that goes for you and what your account manager says. I actually upgraded to seasons tickets before the last lockout. I'll admit I've done well splitting and selling tickets because there has been lots of demand but I am afraid those times may be done when the lockout is over. I am considering cancelling mine as well. I actually bought Seahawks seasons tickets year and it's been great. Each game means so much. Only 8 home games, tickets are easy re-sale, fans are super passionate. No sit on your hands corporate types.


Edited by The-Impersonator, 16 November 2012 - 12:06 AM.

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#2707 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:04 AM

You are wasting your time. They just want to SPIN what they want to believe. They want to believe the union has power of any kind. They cannot possibly fathom the fact the owners OWN the league and the NHLPA has no actual bargaining power.


You realize the guy you're supporting is like 14, based solely on grammar and his name which looks like he smashed his keyboard. I guess republicans think like 14 y/o's so I shouldn't be shocked that you seem to share his viewpoint despite logic demonstrating otherwise. But ya, totally go owners and their inability to negotiate like adults, because clearly they should get their way by virtue of simply being rich!

I see you thought that one through.
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#2708 The Bookie

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:34 AM

Chronology of the 2011 NBA lockout. The parallels are staggering. Bettman and Stern both came out of the same law firm that represented both leagues in their respective lockouts. Note that Nov 14th was the day Stern started talking about cancelling the season.

• July 1, 2011: The NBA locks out its players at 12:01 a.m. EDT as the collective-bargaining agreement expires. "We didn't see any options," Commissioner David Stern said. It's the NBA's third labor stoppage and the first since the shortened 1998-99 season.
The league claims 22 of its 30 teams are unprofitable. NBA owners want to sharply cut the players' 57% share of basketball revenue from the last deal. Players offer to cut their share to 54.3% and give up $500 million in revenue for five seasons, a gesture Stern dismissed as "modest."
Said Billy Hunter, executive director of the players' union: "Maybe we can now really begin to negotiate."
• Aug. 31: The NBA and the players' union meet for six hours; it's only the second negotiating session since the lockout began.
• Sept. 23: NBA postpones training camps indefinitely and scraps exhibition games through Oct. 15. Minnesota Timberwolves center Anthony Tolliver tweets: "I might go apply at Dairy Queen until this #NBAlockout ends. #freefood."
• Sept. 27: Players' union President Derek Fisher writes in a letter to players that there's a "divide" among NBA owners about their commitment to a "hard" salary cap. He tells players that owners can help solve the league's financial problems. "It's time for our large-market teams to share some of the wealth with each other."
• Oct. 1: NBA owners and players have their longest bargaining session since the lockout began, but make little progress. Hunter says the parties are "miles apart."
• Oct. 4: NBA cancels the rest of its exhibition season after labor talks fall apart. "Our guys have indicated a willingness to lose games," Hunter says. Stern says he'd ask league owners to accept a 50% split of basketball-related income, and the union responds that such a share was "unacceptable." Kobe Bryant attends the negotiations. "The development here is that I have time to play overseas," Bryant says.
• Oct. 10: Stern cancels the first two weeks of the regular season after a seven-hour negotiating session fails. Stern says there's "no chance" of a full, 82-game schedule being played.
• Oct. 18: NBA owners and players have a 16-hour bargaining session with federal mediator George Cohen that extends into the next day.

Posted Image• Oct. 20: Negotiations break off when owners remain firm on a 50-50 split, ending a three-day run of 30 hours of discussions with a mediator. Hunter is "shocked" at the owners' take-it-or-leave-it proposal. Players cut their demand to 52.5% of basketball-related income.
• Oct. 26: Talks resume; a 15-hour session extends into the next day.
• Oct. 27: After a seven-hour meeting with NBA owners, Hunter says, "I think we're within striking distance of getting a deal."
• Oct. 28: Players and owners are unable to reach a deal after 51/2 hours of negotiations. Stern cancels all games through Nov. 30.
• Nov. 6: Another marathon bargaining session ends with an ultimatum from Stern: accept a sliding-scale offer where players could make 49% to 51% of BRI by Nov. 8 or the next offer will be less favorable.
• Nov. 7 Jeffrey Kessler, players' union attorney, blasts the NBA and Stern: "Instead of treating the players like partners, they're treating them like plantation workers."
• Nov. 8 The players' union turns down the NBA's latest offer.
• Nov. 10: NBA lockout reaches its 133rd day, surpassing the length of this year's NFL lockout, which led to the cancellation of only one exhibition game. Stern makes a modified offer to the union.
• Nov. 14: On the 138th day of the NBA lockout, players begin the process of disbanding the union so they can file an antitrust suit against the league. Stern warns the season is "now in jeopardy."
• Nov. 15: Players file antitrust lawsuits against the league in federal courts in California and Minnesota.
• Nov. 22. Negotiations resume between lawyers for the players and the NBA.
• Nov. 26: After another marathon bargaining session, the sides reach a tentative deal and expect a 66-game regular season to start Christmas Day.

http://articles.lati...meline-20111127
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#2709 SEAN HARNETT

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:51 AM

Chronology of the 2011 NBA lockout. The parallels are staggering. Bettman and Stern both came out of the same law firm that represented both leagues in their respective lockouts. Note that Nov 14th was the day Stern started talking about cancelling the season.


http://articles.lati...meline-20111127


Interesting!
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#2710 fwybwed

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:01 AM

You realize the guy you're supporting is like 14, based solely on grammar and his name which looks like he smashed his keyboard. I guess republicans think like 14 y/o's so I shouldn't be shocked that you seem to share his viewpoint despite logic demonstrating otherwise. But ya, totally go owners and their inability to negotiate like adults, because clearly they should get their way by virtue of simply being rich!

I see you thought that one through.


Just like a player lover to cut down the opposition lol Ouch my feelings are hurt....atleast im here{taps your forehead} lol Helloooo? Anybody home...Meanwhile, Bettman suggests and 2 week Moratorium.....lol Wow...Guess the Owners are not as worried some may think. :/But know that this was due to a call from Fehr that the NHLPA did not know where to go from there.{Last set of talks end in stalemate} From there Bettman suggested the 2 week break. Then the idiot brother Steve says “We believe that it is more likely that we will make progress if we meet than if we don’t,” NHLPA special counsel Steve Fehr said in a statement. “So we are ready to meet. If indeed they do not want to meet, it will be at least the third time in the last three months that they have shut down the dialogue, saying they will not meet unless the players meet their preconditions.“What does that tell you about their interest in resolving this?”Lol whut? It tells me that the NHLPA are been way to pouty for negotiations lol If you do not know where go from the previous talks and the NHL has given you a propsal and contract terms that they will dicuss but not stray far from well then the ball is in your court STEVEN.....of course take a break why wait around while both sides try to get a meeting out of each other. The NHL has decided we are gonna take a break and the NHLPA can stew on the last proposal to either tweek or accept....lolJust accept it and get on the ice....save face Crysby... I say this because your fans are starting to dwindle and come to the Darkside :) Welcome Poetica ;)
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#2711 Kyosama

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:16 AM

Just like a player lover to cut down the opposition lol Ouch my feelings are hurt....atleast im here{taps your forehead} lol Helloooo? Anybody home...Meanwhile, Bettman suggests and 2 week Moratorium.....lol Wow...Guess the Owners are not as worried some may think. :/But know that this was due to a call from Fehr that the NHLPA did not know where to go from there.{Last set of talks end in stalemate} From there Bettman suggested the 2 week break. Then the idiot brother Steve says "We believe that it is more likely that we will make progress if we meet than if we don't," NHLPA special counsel Steve Fehr said in a statement. "So we are ready to meet. If indeed they do not want to meet, it will be at least the third time in the last three months that they have shut down the dialogue, saying they will not meet unless the players meet their preconditions."What does that tell you about their interest in resolving this?"Lol whut? It tells me that the NHLPA are been way to pouty for negotiations lol If you do not know where go from the previous talks and the NHL has given you a propsal and contract terms that they will dicuss but not stray far from well then the ball is in your court STEVEN.....of course take a break why wait around while both sides try to get a meeting out of each other. The NHL has decided we are gonna take a break and the NHLPA can stew on the last proposal to either tweek or accept....lolJust accept it and get on the ice....save face Crysby... I say this because your fans are starting to dwindle and come to the Darkside :) Welcome Poetica ;)



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#2712 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:49 AM

Just like a player lover to cut down the opposition lol Ouch my feelings are hurt....atleast im here{taps your forehead} lol Helloooo? Anybody home...Meanwhile, Bettman suggests and 2 week Moratorium.....lol Wow...Guess the Owners are not as worried some may think. :/But know that this was due to a call from Fehr that the NHLPA did not know where to go from there.{Last set of talks end in stalemate} From there Bettman suggested the 2 week break. Then the idiot brother Steve says "We believe that it is more likely that we will make progress if we meet than if we don't," NHLPA special counsel Steve Fehr said in a statement. "So we are ready to meet. If indeed they do not want to meet, it will be at least the third time in the last three months that they have shut down the dialogue, saying they will not meet unless the players meet their preconditions."What does that tell you about their interest in resolving this?"Lol whut? It tells me that the NHLPA are been way to pouty for negotiations lol If you do not know where go from the previous talks and the NHL has given you a propsal and contract terms that they will dicuss but not stray far from well then the ball is in your court STEVEN.....of course take a break why wait around while both sides try to get a meeting out of each other. The NHL has decided we are gonna take a break and the NHLPA can stew on the last proposal to either tweek or accept....lolJust accept it and get on the ice....save face Crysby... I say this because your fans are starting to dwindle and come to the Darkside :) Welcome Poetica ;)


Try again, it looks like your cat was stepping on your keyboard while you were typing... I mean something this remarkably stupid could not have possibly come from a person capable of rational thought.

I'm really not trying to be mean, but when Canada is rated amongst the highest in the world for literacy rates, and post secondary education, it's quite clear that you slipped through the cracks.
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#2713 Raoul Duke

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 03:28 AM

Awesome update today on TSN's "That's Pointless"... sorry ""That's Hockey":

Owners and NHLPA agree to not meet for at least two weeks.

Jeeeeeeezuz effing CHRIST!!! Thanks for the valuable update!! This crap is making me sick now. Cancel the friggin season for all I care. So tired of all of this greed BS. The NHL as a whole can suck a fat one, and I know I'm not the only one feeling this way. Shame on these owners and players.
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#2714 Jai604

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 05:49 AM

The season's lost, that much is obvious. I would not be surprised if we lost 2 seasons, lol.


frack 'em both, what a gong show and clown parade. Bunch of pissy millionaires crying about how to divide up their pots of gold.
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#2715 Scottish⑦Canuck

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 06:38 AM

I'm done with the NHL for a while. The way things are going I don't know if I'll bother watching when/if this lockout ends.
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#2716 Masamune

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 07:35 AM

I'm done. Really.

STH for 10 years calliI'ng the Canucks tomorrow to cancel my seats.

I hate greedy billionaire owners who even if they saved 10 - 20% of thier costs won't even think of dropping ticket prices! Makes me want to puke......

I hate greedy players who are crying because they will only make 1.8 mil a year instead of 2.2 mil. Athletes, actors and the like are way overpaid!!!

Schleps like us bustin' our humps to make a living and I am going to spend $8,000.00 a year on filling these whiners pockets?????

People homeless here or starving in war torn countries or living in catastrophic conditions all over the world. And these pigs can't come to grips with how they want to divide up our money????

Pox on all thier houses!

Some poor sucker on the blueline waiting list can have them!!!!!!!! Seriously Vancouver FANS, get a grip. Spend your money on people who deserve and appreciate it!

There I feel better already :-)

Over and out.


Word.
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#2717 Canuck or Die

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 08:33 AM

What a joke. This is such a gong show.
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#2718 Wh!stler R!der

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 08:33 AM

So the same fearless leader that said last week "We still have a lot to do" is now saying it's in the best interest to take two weeks off talks? Seriously puck off Bettman you bipolar egocentric little dwarf.
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#2719 Boudrias

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 09:03 AM

I think its an excellent idea by Bettman to take 2 weeks off negotiating and let everyone sit back and think about things. Players will miss another paycheck and ask themselves if was really worth having hired Fehr.

If there is no basis to move forward then a 2 week layoff is probably the only option.

My question would be one of what the endgame was in hiring Fehr. This BS that keeps being thrown out about who has the biggest gonads is laughable. If this is the negociating position being pursued then we can expect hockey next fall. Perhaps Fehr was the best the players could hire but his history was 6 stoppages in the NBA and now 1 with the NHL. The difference between the 2 leagues is the amount of money involved. The NHL is a much less mature business.

The most interesting conversation about this dispute would be with players who graduated into ownership positions. What would Mario have to say and to a lesser extent Gretzky? Hell, dig Espo out of some bar down in Florida and get his input. These guys have seen both sides of the equation. They probably still have creds with owners and players.
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#2720 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 09:40 AM

Can you guys please explain why you both think Fehr was a bad hire?

Cause myself and alot of other's agree he has done a good job thus-far.

You are wasting your time. They just want to SPIN what they want to believe. They want to believe the NHL has all the power of Greyskull. They cannot possibly fathom the fact the players are a PRODUCT and not just employees and are so scared of being wrong they have to keep repeating the same thing over and over again.

(Actually I think WHLrocks is just trolling a bit and possibly mocking DB slightly)
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#2721 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 09:42 AM

Just like a player lover to cut down the opposition lol Ouch my feelings are hurt....atleast im here{taps your forehead} lol Helloooo? Anybody home...Meanwhile, Bettman suggests and 2 week Moratorium.....lol Wow...Guess the Owners are not as worried some may think. :/But know that this was due to a call from Fehr that the NHLPA did not know where to go from there.{Last set of talks end in stalemate} From there Bettman suggested the 2 week break. Then the idiot brother Steve says "We believe that it is more likely that we will make progress if we meet than if we don't," NHLPA special counsel Steve Fehr said in a statement. "So we are ready to meet. If indeed they do not want to meet, it will be at least the third time in the last three months that they have shut down the dialogue, saying they will not meet unless the players meet their preconditions."What does that tell you about their interest in resolving this?"Lol whut? It tells me that the NHLPA are been way to pouty for negotiations lol If you do not know where go from the previous talks and the NHL has given you a propsal and contract terms that they will dicuss but not stray far from well then the ball is in your court STEVEN.....of course take a break why wait around while both sides try to get a meeting out of each other. The NHL has decided we are gonna take a break and the NHLPA can stew on the last proposal to either tweek or accept....lolJust accept it and get on the ice....save face Crysby... I say this because your fans are starting to dwindle and come to the Darkside :) Welcome Poetica ;)


What?
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#2722 fwybwed

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 09:50 AM

What?


What? lol A couple of quotes and my opinion....it just goes to show who here is for rationale thought on the CBA over a person who loves players...what do you call a guy hung up on hockey players "Puck Bunnies"....lol Noooo! I call em "Puck Bennies" lol Rent a Goalie
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#2723 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 09:53 AM

What? lol A couple of quotes and my opinion....it just goes to show who here is for rationale thought on the CBA over a person who loves players...what do you call a guy hung up on hockey players "Puck Bunnies"....lol Noooo! I call em "Puck Bennies" lol Rent a Goalie

What?

So if they're puck bunnies are you an owner fluffer?

Rationale thought would be not picking either side. You can cell it whatever you'd like but you've not shown rationale though more than a few times in this thread and those would be the times where you don't go on these nonsensical rants.

Edited by EmployeeoftheMonth, 16 November 2012 - 09:57 AM.

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#2724 gizmo2337

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:06 AM

"We are extremely disappointed in where we and the Players find ourselves," deputy commissioner Bill Daly told TSN. "And from our perspective, we have made repeated moves in the Players' direction with absolutely no reciprocation. Unfortunately, we have determined we are involved with Union leadership that has no genuine interest in reaching an agreement. Regardless of what we propose, or how we suggest to compromise the answer is "no." At some point you just have to say "enough is enough".


This is absolutely the biggest load of crap I have ever heard! They have made no moves in the players direction. The players have agreed to a unilateral pay cut, so I don't see how that is not moving in owners direction. The stomping all over the players contracting rights isn't something that should be on the table. Fine, fix the back loaded deals, and that is it.

That is like the players asking for 5 star hotel and each player gets his own room and then asking the owner to meet them half way. Ok, we will settle for 4 star hotel with our own room.

This statement from the NHL I find to be in the realm of unbelievable. Are they for real? It's the owners that have no interest in reaching an agreement. If their intent was to anger the fans, then it worked on me. I'm pointing the finger at the owners though. Take two weeks off negotiating... seriously? Get back to the negotiating table you @^@@$^!
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#2725 Shift-4

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:09 AM

Rationale thought would be not picking either side.


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Hockey is the only sport, the rest are just games.

#2726 JoeyFromBeantown

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:48 AM

I'm done. Really.

STH for 10 years calliI'ng the Canucks tomorrow to cancel my seats.

I hate greedy billionaire owners who even if they saved 10 - 20% of thier costs won't even think of dropping ticket prices! Makes me want to puke......

I hate greedy players who are crying because they will only make 1.8 mil a year instead of 2.2 mil. Athletes, actors and the like are way overpaid!!!

Schleps like us bustin' our humps to make a living and I am going to spend $8,000.00 a year on filling these whiners pockets?????

People homeless here or starving in war torn countries or living in catastrophic conditions all over the world. And these pigs can't come to grips with how they want to divide up our money????

Pox on all thier houses!

Some poor sucker on the blueline waiting list can have them!!!!!!!! Seriously Vancouver FANS, get a grip. Spend your money on people who deserve and appreciate it!

There I feel better already :-)

Over and out.


You should record the audio when you cancel your tickets and send it to team 1040 and email it to the league as well
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#2727 fwybwed

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 11:07 AM

Can you transfer season tix to another person, Id be interested....:)
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#2728 poetica

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:04 PM

Actually,Thats harder being an Owner than a player. The Owners dont get guaranteed income like the players do


Right, employees get a guaranteed salary but owners aren't guaranteed a profit. Employee salaries are a cost of doing business. Profit for owners is the reward for running the business well. The two are not the same thing and can not be fairly compared.

People keep talking about how much owners get versus players and I can't help but wonder, how many make sure their company's owner gets a sufficient return in their pocket before taking their salary. None do, of course, because the employee's business is to do their job and get paid. It's on the owner to make sure employees doing their jobs equals profit.

Besides, we don't know how much owners of NHL teams are making. In reality, owners of teams reporting loses could be taking home millions each year in salary as the president or CEO of the company. Remember, owners buy into a business but they don't take personal responsibility for the company after that. That's why it's incorporated, so if the company doesn't pay its bills the creditors just go without and the owners' personal wealth remains untouched, even if they were getting a yearly salary from the company. (If you can find any information about how much CEOs of the companies who own NHL teams make, your Google skills are better than mine...)

Corporates and fans may find it to hard to spend money on hockey, especially now


Sorry, I don't understand your point. Do you mean because of the economy? If so, that's proven to not be true. The NHL has had record profits for like 6 years running, including major increases in merchandising, game attendance, and corporate sponsorship.

If you mean because people are pissed because of the lockout and may withhold money as punishment, well I certainly hope that's true!

I think some bought on speculation and potential, Even strong markets have died


That may be true, but that's still on them. If they choose to gamble their money they have to be big boys and girls and deal with the consequences when that gamble doesn't pay off.

I am curious, though, which strong markets have died?

Alot of times the weaker teams are forced to pay more than they can afford to players. If the rich teams keep stealing and signing the stars. No fan wants to be a farm team for the rich teams and have no stars on their team to see.


I know people keep saying it, but it doesn't make it true. Teams are NOT forced to overpay players. They can choose not to. If there's no proof that a big name player will bring in big revenue in a crappy market it's simply not a good investment to overpay for a big name. A single player does not make a team and name recognition only equals revenue if there are fans to recognize the name to begin with. Instead, those teams could choose to spend their money on a better quality team of lesser known players that can win games and hopefully attract fans that way. They could also spend their money on scouting and developing underrated talent. Not all great players come into the league with name recognition like Crosby (who people seem to have been crowing about since he was in diapers.) Look at our own Burrows. He's exciting to watch, team loyal, extremely hardworking and a steal at his current salary. He's just one example. I'm sure if you asked people could give you name after name of underrated players with comparatively cheap salaries but big impact. Frankly, if teams are not up to the challenge of properly scouting and building a team then players shouldn't be the first employees they look at replacing.

That being said, the disparity in the level of talent teams can afford is the major thrust of the problem plaguing the NHL right now. Teams in bad markets are never going to be able to compete on a level playing field with teams in successful markets. The NHL has to deal with that in a way that actually addresses the problem. Simply lowering the salary every single NHLer to the level of the most poorly managed, poorly located teams is unfair to the players and unwise for the NHL in terms of keeping talent in the NHL. And at best, it increases profits for the already profitable teams but does little more than minimize loses for the teams losing money. We know that because that's what happened last time. The percentage spent on players was significantly lowered under the old CBA but the result was the richer teams got richer while the poorer teams continued to lose money, albeit less overall. The NHL's preferred fix of lowering players' share and doing little else to address the problem will only ensure this merry-go-round keeps turning each and every CBA.

Take away 6 or so teams make the Teams of better quality,play the same amount of games,maybe instead of playing a team an eastern team 2x you make it 6x. Create more rivalries
Moving a team everytime You have a problem is not very stable or the answer I dont believe
Winnipeg/Colorado lost teams then returned, now maybe Quebec City?
Vancouver probabily would have too as others
I think You take the ones who have shown no growth,no strong support at all no potential and skid them


I'm not arguing that the league would be healthier financially if it just shed its bottom feeding teams, I'm just being realistic that they aren't going to. Those bottom 6 teams all play (and probably beat) teams like Toronto. That means that's a lot of games each season Toronto gets to sell tickets and merchandise for and gets to sell concessions at. That equals huge profits for Toronto. Which team do you think has the power in the NHL? The sugar daddies or the bottle fed?

I do believe there's enough talent currently to go around, and probably enough for the 2-team expansion many have argued for and that it's rumored Bettman has planned. The problem is not the players so much as the business model of the NHL. Any sports league is a weird system of companies who are dependent on yet in direct competition with other companies. Without the other teams, none of them have value. Toronto might finally be the best team in the league if it were the only one, but it wouldn't be worth spit. I know, it seems counterintuitive but the reality of the unique setup of a sports league is that teams are symbiotic, and like any symbiotic relationship that means some will have the feed the others.
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Go, Canucks, Go!
Every single one of them.

Thanks for the memories, Luo! :'(

#2729 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:32 PM

@JoeYerdonPHT: New PHT - Ian White calls Gary Bettman “an idiot” and civility flies out the window http://t.co/fvt0sUHr
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#2730 fwybwed

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:46 PM

A player genius right there lol way to monkey wrench any upcoming talks whose the idiot now lol
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