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*Official* CBA Negotiations and Lockout Thread


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#2881 The Bookie

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 02:52 PM

I don't see how it's possible to lie through speculation. The danger is in people taking it as fact, which is basically up to the faith and intelligence of the reader.
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#2882 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 02:54 PM

Kraft has cancelled the Hockeyville promotion, instead is redistributing 1m to junior hockey programs across Canada.
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#2883 poetica

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:01 PM

Trying to make sense of the whole Florida thing and ran across some more interesting facts...

(From Jan, 2012)

Broward County commissioners overcame concerns about a lopsided deal for taxpayers and gave the Florida Panthers a $7.7 million loan Tuesday for arena renovations.
....
The arrangement also increases the profits the Florida Panthers organization can reap before Broward receives a share to use elsewhere in the county.
....
The Panthers' request – not the first financial request from the team over the years – was hotly debated because of long-simmering frustration that Broward has shelled out tens of millions for the arena and reaped little profits in return since it opened in 1998. The Florida Panthers organization netted $117.4 million from the county arena over that time, according to the county auditor.
....
The loan was changed slightly from its terms going into the vote, at Lieberman's suggestion. But the end result is that the Panthers will have to make $13.25 million in profits from the arena before Broward would start earning 20 percent. The threshold had been $12 million.
The newly approved deal says that after the Panthers hit $12 million in profits, the first $250,000 in profit-share goes into a Broward-Panthers reserve fund for the arena — not $500,000 as the Panthers had proposed before Tuesday's debate. It takes a Panthers profit of $13.25 million in order for that $250,000 reserve fund payment to be made.
Beyond that $13.25 million, Broward's 20 percent take could be used elsewhere, on projects like the county courthouse or elections office.
The Panthers made $10.4 million in profits at the county arena in 2011 and expect to make $21 million this year.

Source: http://articles.sun-...arena-operating


Also, had a look at the auditor's document the original article referenced and there does seem to be evidence that the 2 companies are in fact using one another to shift costs and shelter revenue. The report's not that long, so anyone interested should have a look at it themselves for more examples (i.e. the AOC, or Arena Operating Company, is getting money from concessions and parking on hockey events, meaning some of the revenue that should be included in HRR is being transferred to another company owned by the same parent company.) But, I did want to share the findings of the County Auditor:

Finding

Distributions to the Panthers exceeded the amount authorized under the operating agreement by approximately $8.4 million.

The Operating Agreement specifies that net income is retained by the AOC and may be distributed to the Panthers. Any distributions in excess of net income are to be reimbursed to the AOC at the end of each fiscal year.

As shown in Table 3 below, the AOC generated approximately $89.9 million in net operating income as defined by the contract and distributed approximately $98.3 million to the Panthers, resulting in approximately $8.4 million in distributions to the Panthers in excess of those authorized by the Operating Agreement.

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Unallowable distributions reduce AOC’s cash reserves which are required to meet their County obligations and create additional risk to the County. This risk was highlighted on July 27, 2009 when SSE requested the County loan the AOC $3.9 million to pay its Preferred Revenue Obligation due in August 2010. In the subsequent weeks, SSE stated the AOC may not make the required upcoming Preferred Revenue Obligation payment. Had this occurred, the County would have been required to fund AOC’s $3.9 million portion of the debt service payment.

Recommendation

We recommend the Board of County Commissioners direct the County Administrator to request the AOC obtain reimbursement for the approximately $8.4 million in excess distributions made to the Panthers as of September 30, 2008. The AOC should also reconcile Fiscal Year 2009 distributions to the Panthers with the final audited results of operations and obtain any additional excess distribution which may have occurred during that period.

Source: May 2010 Review of Broward County Civic Arena Operating Agreement (PDF)

So, apparently the AOC pays the Panthers, money that would likely not be included in HRR since it's generated by the arena itself. That would allow the Panthers to make money even while declaring through HRR to be losing money. It also allows the AOC, who is owned by the same company, to stay below the threshold that would require them to profit share with the County that paid for the arena. They've in fact given so much money to the Panthers that they have asked for multiple loans from taxpayers to honor their financial obligations to the County. (Those of you paying attention will notice the first quote about the loan I gave was from Jan 2012 but this report is from May 2010.)

That seems like very specific, creditable and damning evidence to me that neither of these companies are behaving honestly or honorably.
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#2884 Drybone

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:06 PM

Well it makes sense. I mean with what Daly and Bettman are throwing in the media again, saying that players haven't made concessions on their own contract rights is clearly meant to stir up the public against the PA again. I see it's worked on some of our less intelligent members.

I mean saying that the PA should come further into negotiating by not only having an immediate reduction to 50%, but to also give up the contract rights they fought for back in 2004 is insane. Why would this appeal to the players at all, take less and have less bargaining power in a COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENT? If anything the title of said agreement implies that it is a partnership and not an employee/employer relationship that some of these clowns are making it out to be.


You still refuse to explain what legal power the union has over the league in any way shape or form. They have no legal standing in any way shape or form.

Nor do they have any way to replenish their membership in any way shape or form.

You keep RANTING on and on , shaking your fists about a PHANTOM philosophy of power that the NHLPA simply does not have.

Anyone who thinks the players are going to 'win' anything in this is DELUDED. In fact, the only people who are losing here are the 90% of players who do not make enough to even be affected by any of these changes.

They never wanted to strike or be locked out. They are the ones whose careers are even shorter than normal. They are the ones who need to feed their families. Not the Sidney Crosbys or the Ovechkins (who can go make more millions in the KHL )

If I am the owners. I give the players and ultimatum by Jan 15th, and they do not make a deal, the NHL will ban the NHLPA from participating in the league permanently.

The players can come back and form a new union if they agree to leave the NHLPA anytime they wish.
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#2885 goalie13

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:10 PM

If I am the owners. I give the players and ultimatum by Jan 15th, and they do not make a deal, the NHL will ban the NHLPA from participating in the league permanently.


I'm fairly certain North American labour laws do not permit this sort of action.
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#2886 elvis15

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:11 PM

It's possible to take an interest and appreciate someone at least making the effort to penetrate the wall surrounding the league's books without being sucked in. Both authors are pretty clear that there's nothing definitive in their estimates, that they're just doing the best they can given the info they're privy to.

tl;dr - Better than nothing.

Has that what the attention span of our youth has come to?!

But, there is a point there that in lieu of anything new to discuss (and thankfully this isn't as stale as the Luongo thread as it should be the leading topic in hopes to get a deal done) it's interesting to delve into how we got to this point and what might help prevent it in future - not that we have any control but hopefully the people in charge are thinking the same thing.
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#2887 Shift-4

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:13 PM

Trying to make sense of the whole Florida thing and ran across some more interesting facts...

(From Jan, 2012)


You are just reposting what Bookie already posted.
Again - more spin from a journalist. It wasn't the Panthers that made $117M in profit over that time it was the parent company. The parent company's profits include non-hockey sources.
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#2888 elvis15

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:14 PM

I'm fairly certain North American labour laws do not permit this sort of action.

And I'm fairly certain Drybone's been refuted on the possibility of the NHL continuing for any length of time without using at least the star players currently in action, so no danger of having to delve into labour laws on this one. B)
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#2889 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:30 PM

You still refuse to explain what legal power the union has over the league in any way shape or form. They have no legal standing in any way shape or form.

Nor do they have any way to replenish their membership in any way shape or form.

You keep RANTING on and on , shaking your fists about a PHANTOM philosophy of power that the NHLPA simply does not have.

Anyone who thinks the players are going to 'win' anything in this is DELUDED. In fact, the only people who are losing here are the 90% of players who do not make enough to even be affected by any of these changes.

They never wanted to strike or be locked out. They are the ones whose careers are even shorter than normal. They are the ones who need to feed their families. Not the Sidney Crosbys or the Ovechkins (who can go make more millions in the KHL )

If I am the owners. I give the players and ultimatum by Jan 15th, and they do not make a deal, the NHL will ban the NHLPA from participating in the league permanently.

The players can come back and form a new union if they agree to leave the NHLPA anytime they wish.


Please fill out this questionnaire before proceeding:

Ok I'm going to give you a chance again to formulate something that might resemble a rational thought. The following questions are brief, they will not ask you to explain your answer - as I feel you are incapable of doing so. Based on these leading questions, can you voice your perspective on the current CBA struggle:

If Gary Bettman is red, and the players are blue, which do you prefer?

Are the players greedy for asking what was lawfully guaranteed to them?

Do you find Daly's bald forehead shiny?

When you go to hockey games or buy merchandise, do you do so to proudly support your teams owner?

When a goal gets scored do you yell 'THANK YOU AQUILINI FOR SELFLESSLY BUYING A PROFITABLE TEAM'?

Is 43% of 3.3b greater than 50% of nothing?

When your Mom promises to give you 3 cookies if you finish your dinner, but instead gives you 2 cookies because giving you 3 cookies would leave less cookies for her business partners, does that make you upset?

If you have difficulty with any of these questions, please let me know, I know some of the bigger questions are hard for you.


All jokes aside; you open with some sort of fascist notion of the league having substantial power over the CBA, when the CBA is in essence a partnership agreement. Then to counter this fascist notion, you go on to make the case for the Darcy Hordichuks of the NHL, who are most affected by this lockout. So which is it, are you arguing the owners have superior power over the players or that players are fighting for their families and livelihood?

Anyway, I see you plucked that quote from 3 or so pages ago, and you neglected to discuss some of my more recent responses. As I said before and I keep saying it, the CBA is a partnership, there is a reason there is no hockey right now, because both sides cannot come to an agreement. If the NHL has all the power, then why don't they demand the season to start, and the season begins immediately after this demand? Oh that's right, because of labour law, and the notion of a collective bargaining agreement which you continue to neglect.

To answer your question about the power, yes the players have it. They are among the best in their profession, and as this lockout has shown, approximately 1/5th of the players were able to find work in other leagues. There is a limited market for hockey talent, and if the NHL does not acknowledge that the players are the ones selling tickets, then the NHL will quickly fold due to lack of talent.

Once again I am confused as to why you take the 3/4th liner's position at the end of your argument. Yes, they are the ones most affected by the lockout, and hence those most loyal to the union in protecting their position.
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#2890 vancanfan

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:32 PM

Heard Habs players were wearing these caps today at practice although they are not sanctioned by the NHLPA



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#2891 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:34 PM

@NHLexpertpicks: Tonight's CBA meeting between NHL and NHLPA in New York will begin around 7pm
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#2892 The Bookie

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:39 PM

You still refuse to explain what legal power the union has over the league in any way shape or form. They have no legal standing in any way shape or form.


Antitrust. If you're interested there's a paper here: http://lawreview.law...5-4_Feldman.pdf


Heads up y'all, there's some speculation in the following article:

Gary Bettman enrages NHL opinion leaders with verbal attack on journalist

NHL commissioner Gary Bettman isn’t winning any fans among the people who report on his every move, the columnist and writers who regularly cover the NHL.
In an interview with Gary Lawless of the Winnipeg Free Press, Bettman was asked about a report from Philadelphia Flyers beat writer Frank Seravalli of thePhiladelphia Daily News. In that report, Seravalli wrote: “Multiple sources confirmed to the Daily News on Friday that (Flyers chairman Ed) Snider, once seen as a supporter of the Bettman’s push to rein in the players’ share of revenue, has soured on the process after it became apparent that a deal would not be brokered in time for a Dec. 1 puck drop. Put simply: Snider and the rest of the NHL’s owners were promised a big win by Bettman, with player concessions on revenue division and contracting rights. The best they’ll get now is a small win in revenue split – coupled with a demoralized fan base and all-important corporate sponsors that are ready to quit.”
Today, Bettman fired back, after Lawless asked about the Seravalli story.
“It was a fabrication,” Bettman said. “Ed Snider is the one who told me about the article when he found out about it and he was terribly upset. He’s in Europe and it was his idea to put out a statement. Anyone who doubts the resolve of ownership is either uninformed or (being) intentionally misleading.”
At once, hockey writers came to Seravalli’s defence, launching attacks on Bettman on Twitter.
Influential blogger Greg Wyshynski of Puck Daddy sniped, “Find it deplorable that Bettman would toss the word ‘fabrication’ at @DNFlyersreport on Ed Snider. Serious accusation vs. a journo.”
And Jesse Spector of the Sporting News: “There’s a word for someone who calls a legitimately reported piece of journalism a ‘fabrication,’ and that word is idiot. Why idiot? When there’s still media on your side, pissing them off by going over the line and beyond simple criticism is, well, idiotic.”
And Adam Proteau of the Hockey News: “Gary Bettman accuses a journalist of fabrication. Yes, the same Gary Bettman who said the 04/05 lockout would lead to lower ticket prices.
And Tom Gulitti of the Record: ”Anyone familiar with @DNFlyers reporting knows he’s not one to “fabricate”. If article was right or wrong, commissioner owes him an apology.”
And Nick Cotsonika of Yahoo! Sports: “One more thing: Bettman called @DNFlyers report a ‘fabrication.’ He called ATL-to-WPG “speculation” shortly before it happened.”
The Philadelphia Daily News itself said in a statement: “Daily News executive sports editor Chuck Bausman reiterated his support for the story on Monday, saying the paper will continue to stand by its reporting.”
My take?
There’s no simple way of knowing for sure if the Philadelphia Daily News is fair and accurate in this report.
The reporter’s sources are confidential here. Readers will have to judge the report based on the credibility of the reporter and the news organization. I’m not in any position to judge that myself, but credible folks much closer to the scene, such as Gulitti, are standing by the report, and I put more weight on that than I do on Bettman’s self-serving attack on the report and the reporter.
I found myself agreeing with the thrust of Jesse Spector’s critique here, that Bettman was wrong-headed to lash out so forcefully. Many writers and opinion leaders do support the NHL’s stance somewhat. At least they’re open to considering whether or not the league really does have a case. They also know Seravalli, know how reporting works, know how often NHL bosses say stuff off the record or grumble in private, and how that talk and grumble can make its way into a newspaper story.
None of these NHL commentators is going to be more inclined to see Bettman as a reasonable player in these negotiations based on his lashing of Seravalli. The commissioner’s attack damages his credibility with these commentators.
Now, maybe that doesn’t matter to Bettman. Maybe it’s more important to get out the story that the NHL owners back him firmly and that all this stuff about an owners revolt is poppycock.
In his same interview with Lawless, Bettman addressed all the criticism he’s faced, such as players calling him an idiot.
Said Bettman: “You’ll find in the course of labour disputes, there’s always a lot of rhetoric. Most of it is just noise. Most of it is misinformed. There’s propaganda. It’s just a fact of life that you live with. By the way, I love the players. Nobody should think for a moment that I don’t.”
P.S. My final thought here is that it makes perfect sense for Snider to want to end the lockout. Philadelphia is a big market team. It makes easier money if the cap is lower and tighter, but the real win for Philly is to have an excellent team that goes far in the playoffs year after year. Snider and his bunch can do that more often if they can outspend the competition. So that is in his interest, not revenue sharing, and not so much a lower cap or a tighter cap.
This is why we so often see reports and tweets out of Toronto in favour of the NHLPA and a free sports market, in my opinion. Toronto teams also benefit from a higher cap and a looser one. Toronto folks want to see a free hockey market. It’s in the interest of Toronto teams, and Toronto writers, whether they’ll admit it or not, take on the posture and arguments of those teams. Not so sure it’s in the interest of other cities and fanbases, though, including Edmonton and Oilers fans. We’re likely best served with a tight cap, where players aren’t free agents until they’re 30. That could change, though, if a new arena pushed Edmonton into the Top Ten when it comes to revenue generation.
Without the pressure from the big market teams last time around, I strongly suspect we’d be at a 50/50 split in revenue already. That would have been worked out in 2005, but the big markets didn’t want it, certainly not enough to fight even one more day to get it.


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#2893 poetica

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:47 PM

You are just reposting what Bookie already posted.
Again - more spin from a journalist. It wasn't the Panthers that made $117M in profit over that time it was the parent company. The parent company's profits include non-hockey sources.


Do you always blow off things without bothering to read them? That hardly seems like a good way to develop an intelligent, informed opinion.

The profits in question are NOT from the parent company. No one has numbers for SSE (the parent company). Rather, the "spin" argument was that the revenues quoted were from the team's sibling company that operates the arena. Had you bothered to read my message, you would have noticed that in addition to a quote from a local newspaper with more up-to-date numbers about what that sibling company is making, I also quoted the original auditor's report finding which very clearly illustrated that the sibling company was transferring money to the Panthers, millions in excess of what their agreement allowed.
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Every single one of them.

Thanks for the memories, Luo! :'(

#2894 Shift-4

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:54 PM

Parent, sibling, whatever. I meant AOC.

And I most definitely meant that it ISN'T PURE PANTHERS OPERATING PROFIT.
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#2895 poetica

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:01 PM

Parent, sibling, whatever. I meant AOC.


No, not whatever. Very specifically different. If you're going to call anyone else's take on it "spin" you should at least know the difference yourself.

And I most definitely meant that it ISN'T PURE PANTHERS OPERATING PROFIT.


What are you basing that "knowledge" on? If you have some facts, please feel free to share them.
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Go, Canucks, Go!
Every single one of them.

Thanks for the memories, Luo! :'(

#2896 Shift-4

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:09 PM

No, not whatever. Very specifically different. If you're going to call anyone else's take on it "spin" you should at least know the difference yourself.



What are you basing that "knowledge" on? If you have some facts, please feel free to share them.




I do know the difference. I hastily mistyped. I should have typed AOC since that is what I meant. :rolleyes:




Originally posted by Bookie

http://www.defending...s-money-revenue


Now, I want to make one thing clear - the organization that made $117.4 million in profit between 1998 and 2012 is neither the Florida Panthers nor their parent company, Sunrise Sports & Entertainment. The organization that made those profits is the aptly named Arena Operating Company, which is contracted by the city to run the BankAtlantic Center.

Edited by Shift-4, 19 November 2012 - 04:09 PM.

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#2897 boxiebrown

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:23 PM

I'm fairly certain North American labour laws do not permit this sort of action.


Yeah, he just doesn't understand labour law at all.
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#2898 gizmo2337

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:34 PM

Ok, I'll bite, just for fun :bigblush:

If Gary Bettman is red, and the players are blue, which do you prefer?
-Green and Blue! We are all Canucks
Are the players greedy for asking what was lawfully guaranteed to them?
-technically they are lawfully guaranteed nothing, as all SPC are worded subject to CBA rules. However, they are not greedy for asking what has been promised. On the other hand, the owners are greedy for rolling back what they promised.
Do you find Daly's bald forehead shiny?
-Brighter than a full moon
When you go to hockey games or buy merchandise, do you do so to proudly support your teams owner?
-I don't buy merchandise, but get gifts here and there. It's worn/purchased to support the team, not the owner specifically
When a goal gets scored do you yell 'THANK YOU AQUILINI FOR SELFLESSLY BUYING A PROFITABLE TEAM'?
-van amos van amos
Is 43% of 3.3b greater than 50% of nothing?
-yes indeed. Too bad the NHL/NHLPA can't do math
When your Mom promises to give you 3 cookies if you finish your dinner, but instead gives you 2 cookies because giving you 3 cookies would leave less cookies for her business partners, does that make you upset?
-if that cookie is a double chocolate chunk, then I'm really upset! That's ok though, I'll just make some more. Besides, its Mom, so give her all benefits of the doubt. 40G to put me through university and raising 2 kids is worth a hell of a lot more than a cookie.
If you have difficulty with any of these questions, please let me know, I know some of the bigger questions are hard for you.
-I'll admit, the cookie question was a tough one, and now I'm getting hungry


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#2899 GoodCanadianKideh

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:50 PM

It amazes me that the owners aren't making any money due to the lockout. The players aren't making any money during the lockout. Bettman still gets paid his $7 million. No wonder he doesn't care about shutting down hockey. I guess it's not surprising that he wanted to take a two week holiday in the middle of the lockout negotiations.
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#2900 Boudrias

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:51 PM

Antitrust. If you're interested there's a paper here: http://lawreview.law...5-4_Feldman.pdf


Heads up y'all, there's some speculation in the following article:

Gary Bettman enrages NHL opinion leaders with verbal attack on journalist

I have a hard time equating journalist with ethical. After the smear job Maclean did on Alex Burrows who would? Most of these guys are hacks and generate verbage because that is what they are paid for.
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#2901 poetica

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:52 PM

Now, I want to make one thing clear - the organization that made $117.4 million in profit between 1998 and 2012 is neither the Florida Panthers nor their parent company, Sunrise Sports & Entertainment. The organization that made those profits is the aptly named Arena Operating Company, which is contracted by the city to run the BankAtlantic Center.


Yes, those profits were generated by AOC. However, the point you keep missing is that THEY GIVE PROFITS TO THE PANTHERS. That's not speculation, that's the known terms of the original lease agreement.

From 1999 to 2008, according to the auditor's report, "the AOC generated approximately $89.9 million in net operating income as defined by the contract and distributed approximately $98.3 million to the Panthers." (It was only the $8.4 million that was paid in excess of the net operating income that was a bone of contention in the auditor's report as it was more than the original agreement allowed.)

The whole point is we know AOC is giving the profit to the Panthers. We just don't know if that's before or after their reported losses. If they are reporting loses on HRR only and not including those arena profit payments (which would not be included in HRR since some of it is non-hockey related), then it's not spin to say that they are actually a profitable company even in years they've claimed loses.

It also calls into question, for me at least, their HRR number since some moneys that should be included in HRR (including portions of parking and concessions) are given to the AOC, and then back to the team as arena profit. That could mean the team is laundering revenue through the AOC to avoid declaring it all as HRR.

Edited by poetica, 19 November 2012 - 04:58 PM.

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Every single one of them.

Thanks for the memories, Luo! :'(

#2902 The Bookie

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:53 PM

I have a hard time equating Ron Maclean with a journalist.
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#2903 RWMc1

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:56 PM

To DB simply disagreeing with him is taken as a personal attack. This is how the end starts for him though every other time he's been here.

If the owners had all the power there would be hockey right now...

Pro owner or pro player it doesn't really matter...the bottom line is both sides have gotten the other to move from their original positions and that will continue to do so until it is resolved. Neither side is going to win because neither side is going to get what they want. The reason for that is because both sides hold power. This is a tug of war and both sides get a piece of the rope.

All this NHLPA has no power garbage is just that...garbage. It's just as stupid as all the NHL owners are greedy and evil crap.

It's not exactly crap. Devil-lano described the players as cattle. In my view dehumanizing anyone is evil. The despicable methodology the League is using only confirms that they actually believe that. Were I a player, I would never cave under the pressure that the League is manufacturing. I would also only pad my stats and not give 100% to the radical owners who are proving that they have no respect for the players.

I know many refer to betteman as count chokula. I prefer to envision him as a lawn gnome with the neighborhood dogs urinating on him at every opportunity.
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#2904 RWMc1

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 05:02 PM

"Almost all of the owners (/owning entities) of NHL teams have large stakes in other businesses. By uniting a large group of NHL fans to start a boycott of at least some of these businesses, right now, we may be able to influence the owners in some way. At the very least, we can let them know that their actions are affecting us in a negative way, so we have the ability and power to do the same to them.

Here is a list of NHL owners (from http://icehockey.wik...t_of_NHL_Owners), and other businesses that they have a large stake in. You may be surprised at some of the names - if not the sheer quantity:

Henry Samueli - Anaheim Ducks
Broadcom Corporation - Computer & Telecommunications Networking

Jeremy Jacobs - Boston Bruins
Chairman of Delaware North Companies (hospitality and food service company)

Terrence Pegula - Buffalo Sabres
Owns the AHL Rocester Americans.

N. Murray Edwards - Calgary Flames
Owns Canadian Natural Resources (oilsands development). Also owns Resorts of the Canadian Rockies, which owns Fernie Alpine Resort, Kimberley Alpine Resort, Nakiska, Stoneham Mountain Resort, and Mont-Sainte-Anne, Kicking Horse Resort.

Peter Karmanos - Carolina Hurricanes
Owns Compuware, large business software developer

Rocky Wirtz - Chicago Blackhawks
Rocky oversees Wirtz Corporation's commercial and residential real estate companies, wine distributor Wirtz Beverage Group, an insurance company and banks in Illinois and Florida. Wirtz is also the co-chairman of the Executive Committee of the United Center.

Stan Kroenke - Colorado Avalanche
Owns Kroenke Sports Enterprises, which in addition to the AVS, controls the Denver Nuggets (NBA), Colorado Rapids (MLS), Colorado Mammoth (NLL) and St. Louis Rams (NFL).

JMAC Inc. - Columbus Blue Jackets
n/a

Tom Gaglardi - Dallas Stars
Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer of Sandman Hotels, Inns & Suites and Moxie's Restaurants, LP. Also part owner of Kamloops Blazers.

Mike Ilitch - Detroit Red Wings
Also owns Little Cesars Pizza and the Detroit Tigers.

Rexall Sports (of Katz Group) - Edmonton Oilers
Owns over 1800 pharmacies in Canada, under the names: Rexall, Herbie's for Drug and Food, Meditrust Pharmacy, Pharma Plus, Super Drug Mart, and Dell Pharmacies.

Cliff Viner (& Stu Siegel?) - Florida Panthers
Cliff Viner is a general partner with AVM, LP a fixed income broker/dealer, and III Associates, a fixed income derivatives money management firm. Last I heard, Stu Siegel sold his shares in the team.

Philip Anschutz & Edward Roski Jr. - Los Angeles Kings
Philip Anschutz owns or has stakes in MLS teams LA Galaxy, Chicago Fire, Houston Dynamo, San Jose Earthquakes, and the NY/NJ Metro Stars; Los Angeles Lakers; Staples Center and O2 Arena; and the Home Depot Center. Ed Roski is also a part owner of the Lakers, and owns the Silverton Casino Lodge in Las Vegas.

Craig Leipold - Minnesota Wild
Leipold's companies own the Grand Ol' Opry in Nashville, and the Houston Aeros AHL team. They also manage the Xcel Energy Center and the Saint Paul RiverCentre.

Molson Family - Montreal Canadiens
Molson is a big invester in the NHL (for many teams), besides owning a cornerstone franchise. Their beers include Canadian, Coors, Ice, Golden, Export, Dry, XXX, Stock Ale, Rickard's, Pilsner, Carling, Keystone, Bohemian, and Calgary Export. Owns partial stakes in the Brazilian brands A Marca Bavaria and Kaiser. In Canada, has the marketing and selling rights for Corona, Heineken, and Miller brands.

Predators Holdings LLC - Nashville Predators
Owns and operates Bridgestone arena.

Jeffrey Vanderbeek - New Jersey Devils
Owns the Prudential Center (but maybe not for long!)

Charles Wang - New York Islanders
Owner of CA Technologies (systems software developer) and the Bridgport Sound Tigers AHL team.

James Dolan - New York Rangers
Also President and CEO of Cablevision Systems Corporation (only operates in NYC - unrelated to Cablevision Canada).

Eugene Melnyk - Ottawa Senators
He is the founder, and former chairman and CEO of Biovail Corporation (Parmaceuticals), which merged with merged with Valeant Pharmaceuticals International in 2010. Its major products include Cesamet (nabilone), Efudex, Mestinon, Diastat, and Ribavirin.

Comcast-Spectator - Philadelphia Flyers
Comcast is a major Internet/Cable/Phone provider in the US.

NHL - Phoenix Coyotes
Hah!

Mario Lemieux & Ron Burkle - Pittsburgh Penguins
Ron Burkle has his fingers in a lot of pies. Some of the major ones are: 20.7% stake in Americold Realty Trust; major invester in Sean John clothing line; small stakes of Barnes & Noble and American Apparel. Significant stake in Relativity Media, which produced such films as Let Me In, Limitless, Machine Gun Preacher, Mirror Mirror, The Raven, and upcoming releases such as The House at the End of the Street, Movie 43, and Safe Haven.

Sports Capital Partners - St. Louis Blues
Owns Real Madrid! Also Real Salt Lake (MLS), Peoria Rivermen (AHL), Scottrade Center, Peabody Opera House, KALL700 Sports Radio, and Tupelo-Honey productions.

Sharks Entertainment Enterprises - San Jose Sharks
Owns the HP Pavillion and Worcester Sharks. Also a minority shareholder in the San Jose Earthquakes (MLS).

Jeff Vinik - Tampa Bay Lightning
Also owns the Tampa Bay Storm. Minority owner of the Boston Red Sox. Also on board of directors for Liverpool Football Club.

M.L.S.E - Toronto Maple Leafs
Also owns the Raptors, Marlies (AHL), Toronto FC (MLS), Air Canada Centre, Ricoh Coliseum, BMO Field, Mastercard Centre, and Real Sports.

Canucks Sports and Entertainment - Vancouver Canucks
Also owns Rogers Arena. But it is 100% owned by Aquilini Investment Group, which owns/operates: multi-storey residential developments in Vancouver including the King Edward Village, Richards Living tower, and Maynards Block; proponent of the proposed $2.6B Garibaldi at Squamish resort; half ownership of Halifax-based Pacrim Hospitality Services, which owns and manages 30 hotels across Canada, and all Pizza Hut locations in BC; creator and producer of Bassano Hard Soda.

Ted Leonsis - Washington Capitals
Also majority owner of majority owner of the Washington Wizards (NBA), Washington Mystics (WNBA) and the Verizon Center. Founder and Chairman of SnagFilms, which offers ad-supported documentaries. Vice chairman of Groupon and on the board of American Express.

True North Sports and Entertainment - Winnipeg Jets
Owns and operates the MTS Centre, and the St. John's Ice Caps (AHL).


Now, obviously every person will not be a direct consumer of these companies. However, I am going to make my own "boycott list". I encourage any of you to do the same.
So, if a lockout is declared on September 15th, I will begin a boycott of the following:

- All beers produced/distributed by Molson (no Heinekin or Corona)
- Rexall drugs (normally gets around $50/month from me)
- Moxies
- Little Cesars
- Pizza Hut (BC)
- Sandman Hotels
- All films produced by Relativity Media
- Premiership games with Liverpool or Real Madrid, merchandise for either team
- Will try to influence brother-in-law to boycott St. Louis Rams (he's a huge fan)
- Fernie Alpine Resort, Kimberley Alpine Resort, Nakiska, Stoneham Mountain Resort, and Kicking Horse Resort (I go to Kicking Horse every year)
- No events at Rogers Arena when I'm in Vancouver (I catch concerts here)
- Bassano Hard Soda (will tell everyone it's terrible)


Feel free to spread this by any means possible. I am going to start tweeting information/etc. using hashtag #fanlockout." from the thread BETTER KNOW A BOYCOTT by D-Money

I encourage people to copy/paste this in a Word file and print it out then post it on as many bulletin boards as possible. I also encourage people to post this on social media sites. Band-wagoners and fair-weather fans can have their apathy. Show that you care.
Edited by RWMc1, A minute ago.
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#2905 WHL rocks

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 05:11 PM

^^ What an incredible waste of time. You really want to stop drinking Molson beer and stop eating Pizza Hut because of the NHL lockout? Rediculous. Go for a walk or something, you are too consumed by this whole thing.
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#2906 The Bookie

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 05:11 PM

CBC radio was just saying that Yzerman and Nieuwendyk are attending tonight's meetings.

edit - also Brian Burke (thought he was homeless but he must have hopped a freight train down to NYC)

Edited by The Bookie, 19 November 2012 - 05:14 PM.

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#2907 WHL rocks

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 05:16 PM

Heard Habs players were wearing these caps today at practice although they are not sanctioned by the NHLPA



Posted Image


Morons. This right here shows you their intelligence level.
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#2908 elvis15

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 05:24 PM

@RWMc1: That's already been posted I'm sure, no need to do so again - no matter how much you think it helps your slacktivism efforts.

EotM's point was that saying that the players have 0% power is just as untrue as saying 100% of owners are evil. That's not to say the players have all the power or there aren't some evil owners (relatively speaking), but nothing is so absolute in this world.

People's refusal to admit that (in it's simplist form that only one side can be right in this) is sometimes just out of hyperbole, sometimes out of laziness, and sometimes out of plain stupidity.

Edited by elvis15, 19 November 2012 - 05:30 PM.

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#2909 WHL rocks

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 06:15 PM

Versteeg calls Bettman and Daly cancers. LOL. What a clown.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409856

With negotiations for a new collective bargaining agreement between the National Hockey League and NHL Players' Association at a standstill, Florida Panthers forward Kris Versteeg joined the Bryan Hayes show on TSN Radio 1050 Toronto to voice his frustration with NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman and deputy commissioner Bill Daly.
"Obviously I'm really frustrated, It's not good," said Versteeg. "You do try to look at the best case scenarios moving forward once the CBA does get done and you gotta look for the cancers and you gotta cut out the cancer.

"I think when you look at Bill Daly and Bettman they've been polluting this game for far too long."

Versteeg went on to say that Daly and Bettman should be replaced once a new CBA is reached for the good of the fans.


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#2910 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 06:21 PM

Canucks’ Schneider says he will consider playing in Switzerland more seriously:

Cory Schneider’s patience is starting to wear out.


The Vancouver Canucks goaltender said Monday he will look to play in Europe if the NHL lockout lasts much longer. Schneider plans to go home to the Boston area for American Thanksgiving and then explore his options in Switzerland, where he would be considered a domestic player because his grandfather was born there.


“It’ll be another week, so we’ll see if the talks have gone anywhere, and if not we’ll have to open the door to that possibility again,” he said Monday after skating with some of his teammates at the University of British Columbia.


Players have been locked out since the previous deal expired Sept. 15.


Schneider, who displaced Roberto Luongo as Vancouver’s starter in the Stanley Cup playoffs, said a couple of Swiss clubs have expressed interest, based on his dual citizenship.


Like most of the Canucks’ core players, he has waited to see how negotiations on a new collective bargaining agreement played out rather than head overseas. While some players, such as Daniel and Henrik Sedin, have chosen to stay in Vancouver because they have children in school and do not want to disrupt their routines, Schneider remained on the West Coast even though he had more flexibility.


But as the lockout period lengthens, the Marblehead, Mass., native is becoming more anxious to stay in top form by playing meaningful games rather than working out informally with his teammates.


“If the season’s cancelled, then it’s hugely important, because I’m at a point in my career where I can’t really sit around for 18 months and not play any games,” he said. “Just as an athlete and as a professional, you want to compete and do your job. If that’s the only available option, then I think you have to take it pretty seriously before (the collective bargaining agreement) gets fixed.”


Schneider, a member of the NHL Players Association’s bargaining committee, made the comments before league and union representatives were to meet in New York City later Monday. He was glad to see the discussions being held after the NHL had proposed a two-week moratorium on talks, but he was not overly optimistic that the latest negotiations would produce meaningful results.


Noting the final version of the deal won’t be much different than what’s been proposed thus far, he said progress must be made “before it’s too late” and a full NHL season is scrapped for the second time since 2004-05.


“It’s fun being around your teammates,” he said. “That’s what a lot of guys miss the most, being in the locker-room, being with your friends and teammates, and having a big group like we have here makes it easier to motivate yourself and push and get better. But at the same time, I think we’re all going a little mad doing these scrimmages and practices. We want to get back to competing.”


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