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#1 kanucks1

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 09:30 PM

I"m Soooooooooo bored with no hockey.


To Van: Zajac,Fayne

To Njd: Luongo,Raymond,Ballard.

Only if Broduer is in a slump or retires or New jersey just wants a new goalie.


Lineup:

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Kesler-Zajac
Hansen-Higgins-Kassian
Manny-Lappy-Weise
Volpatti-Ebbett

Hamhuis-Bieksa
Edler-Garrison
Fayne-Tanev
Alberts

Schneids
Lack


Thanks Guys.
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#2 CanucksFanMike

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 09:34 PM

Underpayment.... the Devils aren't gonna trade their number one center for Luongo. Unless, of course, they are absolutely desperate for a goalie which I guess they might be if Marty retired :P
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#3 Pears

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 09:43 PM

No for a couple of reasons:

1) After losing Parise and Ponikarovsky in the off season, trading Zajac would be just too big of a blow to the Devils to handle

2) Zajac is a UFA after this season (if there is one) so basically its Luongo, Raymond and Ballard for Fayne...no thanks

Edited by Steven Stamkos' Mullet, 28 October 2012 - 04:24 AM.

In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs


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#4 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 11:14 PM

To Van: Zajac,Fayne

To Njd: Luongo,Raymond,Ballard.


The Devils are on the brink of bankruptcy, they aren't going to be taking all that salary, especially the useless salary of Raymond and Ballard.

They need Zajac and Fayne so they aren't going to be trading them. While we're at it, they aren't going to be trading any 1st rounders either because they need to relinquish a 1st rounder either this coming season or the next one. This year the draft is in New Jersey so it's highly doubtful they let go of this year's pick which means next year they need to give their pick up.

Any trade with New Jersey needs close to equal cash going back.

Luongo FOR Zubrus, Hedberg, Urbom

#5 Pears

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 11:23 PM

Any trade with New Jersey needs close to equal cash going back.

Luongo FOR Zubrus, Hedberg, Urbom

I legit almost threw up in my mouth at that. You should change your user name from 'ConnorFutureGM' to 'Mike Milbury 2.0'

In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs


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#6 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 11:24 PM

I would love this, I love Zajac and I love Fayne.

But..

1) Broduer showed he is still a #1 so there is no way they will do it, Goaltending is not a need for them, they have more pressing needs.

2) They won't trade Zajac.

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#7 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 11:28 PM

I legit almost threw up in my mouth at that. You should change your user name from 'ConnorFutureGM' to 'Mike Milbury 2.0'

I legit almost threw up in my mouth at that. You should change your user name from 'ConnorFutureGM' to 'Mike Milbury 2.0'

You think Luongo is some treasure that every team will pay their testicles to get. Not many teams NEED a goaltender then there's Luongo's contract, then there's his NTC then there's the lockout with a proposed cap drop, then there is everyone knowing the Canucks will eventually have to trade Luongo.

The Canucks aren't going to get any A level prospects, 2013 1st round picks or elite young players for Luongo.

#8 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 11:29 PM

I would love this, I love Zajac and I love Fayne.

But..

1) Broduer showed he is still a #1 so there is no way they will do it, Goaltending is not a need for them, they have more pressing needs.

2) They won't trade Zajac.

Broduer has one more season in him. Maybe two if he takes less games. I think it might work well having a Luogno/Brodeur tandem to pass the torch to.

#9 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 11:37 PM

Broduer has one more season in him. Maybe two if he takes less games. I think it might work well having a Luogno/Brodeur tandem to pass the torch to.


They have some prospects to pass the torch too.

They have bigger needs they need to address before goaltending.

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#10 Pears

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 11:48 PM

You think Luongo is some treasure that every team will pay their testicles to get. Not many teams NEED a goaltender then there's Luongo's contract, then there's his NTC then there's the lockout with a proposed cap drop, then there is everyone knowing the Canucks will eventually have to trade Luongo.

The Canucks aren't going to get any A level prospects, 2013 1st round picks or elite young players for Luongo.

You're on some serious stuff if you think a goalie of Luongo's calibre can't fetch a 2013 1st, even straight up. Give your head a shake.

In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs


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#11 JimLahey

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 12:14 AM

Broduer has one more season in him. Maybe two if he takes less games. I think it might work well having a Luogno/Brodeur tandem to pass the torch to.


Scott Wedgewood will be their #1 in New Jersey after Marty's done. If NJD trades another forward, a centre no less, they will be deep in trouble, more so than before. Their forward group would be Parise, Zajac and Ponikarovsky-less and inserting Raymond into the mix isn't a solution.

Edited by JimLahey, 28 October 2012 - 12:23 AM.

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#12 palindrom

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 01:34 AM

I dont know if you folowed the news last summer.

Brodeur didnt retire and signed a 2 years contract.

He even lead his team to a Stanley cup final!

Edited by palindrom, 28 October 2012 - 01:35 AM.

Posted Image Was too much for me!

Instead im reading English grammar for advanced dummies





#13 Phil_314

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 01:36 AM

I don't think that the Devils could afford to give up another part of their offense, now that Parise's already gone for nothing and the team needs the top tier scoring they can get (with Kovalchuk, Zajac, Henrique and Elias predominantly); that and Brodeur re-signed and Wedgewood could probably step in afterwards.

However,

You're on some serious stuff if you think a goalie of Luongo's calibre can't fetch a 2013 1st, even straight up. Give your head a shake.


VERY much agreed. Toronto could probably contend for a playoff spot at least with Lu in their crease and he's not even worth a late 1st round prospect (in 20's if Toronto makes the playoffs)? What people need to understand is, by trading Lu whoever gets him will be getting an established piece that, if their goaltending is weak, could really shore up their crease. A first round pick (as shown in the article below) is only worth as much as what the prospect drafted becomes, when Vancouver still wants to contend soon and should be asking for more than just a 1st (which Burke would be stupid to give up if Lu brings them into the playoffs).

http://shutdownline....round-pick.html

Draft picks are treated as currency during the trade deadline and the general idea around the league seems to be that a decent player will get you a mid-round pick, a good player will net a 2nd round pick in return and a great top-six player is worth a first round pick. At least that's how things seem to go around this time of the year. Whenever a deal involving a first round pick is made, the team that gave up the pick "overpaid" for a rental while the other team got a "great return." What a lot of people fail to realize is that teams giving up first round picks at this time of year are probably selecting in 17-30 territory and a first rounder there is completely different than one in the top five (Toronto won't be in the top 5 with Lu).

Let's take the recent three-way trade between the Avalanche, Red Wings and Lightning as an example. The Red Wings essentially gave up a first round pick (which went to Tampa) for defenseman Kyle Quincey, who is a free agent after this year. At first glance, this looks like an overpayment for the Red Wings because "Oh my god they gave up a first round pick!" but when looking at the deal closer, it makes a lot more sense for Detroit. The Wings are going to be picking late in the first round, have a decent prospect pool and needed a 3rd pairing defenseman better than Jakub Kindl. This is a team trying to win the Stanley Cup so a pick between #20-30 doesn't mean as much to them as it does to a rebuilding team.
That's the risk you take when you trade for only draft picks. None of them are sure thing and that's especially true with ones that come in the latter half of the first round. I'm not saying that draft picks don't have any value, but not every first round picks is going to be a star and teams who want to win now are fine with dealing those away if that's what it takes to acquire a player. I think this is why you're seeing more contending teams dealing their first round picks now.


Even in the 2003 NHL draft, 1/3 of the 1st round picks either busted out (as high picked as #4, Nik Zherdev to #12 Hugh Jessiman) or only became marginal NHL players (Steve Bernier, Pouliot, Tambellini...) so there's no telling who will become what. In essence, it's pure luck.

The value of a first round pick depends on how deep the draft is and the GM making the selection. Some GM's and scouts are clearly better than others (sup Detroit?) and have a knack for catching talent outside in later rounds. Let's say that Allen and Ruutu were traded to contending teams, who were picking in 17-30 territory. The odds of that pick being a stud are equally as likely of it being a role player or a bust. People get wrapped up with the "value" of a first round pick because rebuilding through the draft is how it's done nowadays but they fail to see that draft picks are never a sure thing, even if it is in the first round. For every Corey Perry there's a Marc Pouliot.


I would have to think that if Lu's acquired prior to the season his value would have to be around that of Jeff Carter's when he was dealt to Columbus, since like Carter he would plug an important hole for the team acquiring him (1C for Carter, starting goalie for Lu) and DON'T FORGET: Carter and RIchards were long-term salary dumps as well! (Holmgren flipped a quick one on them to sign Bryzgalov, taking from a position of strength up front to shore up the back end)

Before it's all said and done I would expect a similar return. For only a 1st? You've got to be kidding; I hope MG keeps him.

Edited by g@m3b0i, 28 October 2012 - 01:42 AM.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.


Jesus LOVES YOU!
2012, meet Matthew 24:36-47!

14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.


#14 kanucks1

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 08:34 AM

I legit almost threw up in my mouth at that. You should change your user name from 'ConnorFutureGM' to 'Mike Milbury 2.0'


HAHAHAHA!
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#15 kanucks1

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 08:50 AM

Underpayment.... the Devils aren't gonna trade their number one center for Luongo. Unless, of course, they are absolutely desperate for a goalie which I guess they might be if Marty retired :P


Henrique is their number 1 center and have Elias, Zubrus, Josefson, and ryan carter. That's six centers with Zajac and have no left wingers. They have to use right wingers as left wingers except for Kolvachuk. So Raymond would definitly help. They could then trade hedberg a 2nd and Krys Barch for Stafford. a second line right winger because they have no amazing right winger.


Their lineup with my trade would be....

Kolvachuk-Henrique-Clarkson
Raymond-Elias-Stafford
Josefson-Zubrus-Butler
S.Gionta-R.Carter-Bernier

Defense

Volchenkov-Zidlicky
Tallinder-Salvador
Greene-Larson
Harrold

Lu
Brodeur goalie tandom.
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#16 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 04:39 PM

You're on some serious stuff if you think a goalie of Luongo's calibre can't fetch a 2013 1st, even straight up. Give your head a shake.

Gillis and fans can yell out what Luongo's value should be, the market for Luongo determines the value.

I have a half used stick of deodorrant and I want a a top 6 forward, a prospect and a 1st rounder for it. I can wait until the end of time but if I want to get rid of that stick of deodorant anytime soon I might have to settle for less.

#17 Pears

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 04:47 PM

Gillis and fans can yell out what Luongo's value should be, the market for Luongo determines the value.

I have a half used stick of deodorrant and I want a a top 6 forward, a prospect and a 1st rounder for it. I can wait until the end of time but if I want to get rid of that stick of deodorant anytime soon I might have to settle for less.

That could quite possibly be the worst comparison ever. Again your logic is flawed. If the season is saved and teams like Chicago, Toronto or Edmonton are in need of a goalie and are a few spots out of a playoff spot come trade deadline, and if we still have Luongo then, one of those teams guarenteed will offer a pretty penny for Lu, as he will most likely be the only elite goalie on the market.

In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs


   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#18 JimLahey

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 05:09 PM

Gillis and fans can yell out what Luongo's value should be, the market for Luongo determines the value.

I have a half used stick of deodorrant and I want a a top 6 forward, a prospect and a 1st rounder for it. I can wait until the end of time but if I want to get rid of that stick of deodorant anytime soon I might have to settle for less.


Worst analogy I have ever seen.
A stick of deodorant is in no way relatable to a goaltenders value. A stick of deodorant has a stagnant value, such as that of a player like Angelo Esposito. Nobody really wants him, but if offered the chance they would take it. A goaltender could be worth a dollar. A dollar`s value rises and drops just like the value of a goaltender. The dollar fluxuates due to its value in a market, just as that of a goaltender`s play and a teams need for a goaltender. So as a comparison, the value of Luongo will rise and drop based on his current play, the team`s goaltending needs and the willingness of the goaltender himself to be moved, as opposed to a player of stagnant, non-moving value.

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#19 lmm

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 05:12 PM

Gillis and fans can yell out what Luongo's value should be, the market for Luongo determines the value.

I have a half used stick of deodorrant and I want a a top 6 forward, a prospect and a 1st rounder for it. I can wait until the end of time but if I want to get rid of that stick of deodorant anytime soon I might have to settle for less.




I think this might be a waivers/buyout situation

#20 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 05:42 PM

That could quite possibly be the worst comparison ever. Again your logic is flawed. If the season is saved and teams like Chicago, Toronto or Edmonton are in need of a goalie and are a few spots out of a playoff spot come trade deadline, and if we still have Luongo then, one of those teams guarenteed will offer a pretty penny for Lu, as he will most likely be the only elite goalie on the market.


Or maybe all those teams find a solution for their goaltending. In the mean time, Luongo gets more and more antsy about playing, making more public statements about him getting traded putting more pressure on Gillis to trade Luongo and causing a bigger disturbance on the locker room.

Despite wide spread opinion, Gillis doesn't have forever to trade Luongo. Luongo has been very civil thus far about being traded but he's not going to want to be a backup indefinitely and his civility will decline.

You also don't give any credence to the fact Luongo has a horrible contract, the CBA is going to have a cap drop, he's looked shaky in key games and he dictates what teams he would go to, not to mention every team in the league knows the exact situation the Canucks are in with Luongo.

Worst analogy I have ever seen.
A stick of deodorant is in no way relatable to a goaltenders value. A stick of deodorant has a stagnant value, such as that of a player like Angelo Esposito. Nobody really wants him, but if offered the chance they would take it. A goaltender could be worth a dollar. A dollar`s value rises and drops just like the value of a goaltender. The dollar fluxuates due to its value in a market, just as that of a goaltender`s play and a teams need for a goaltender. So as a comparison, the value of Luongo will rise and drop based on his current play, the team`s goaltending needs and the willingness of the goaltender himself to be moved, as opposed to a player of stagnant, non-moving value.


The point I was making was the market determines Luongo's value. He may help a team quite a bit but if there is only one team that can/will trade for him, they can offer peanuts and peanuts would be the best offer since it's the only actual offer.

I think this might be a waivers/buyout situation


Could be but Gillis needs to save face now. If Florida is still the only team Luongo would go to and they are offering cap dumps then Gillis would be better off putting Luongo on waivers. If Luongo's list has exanded a bit, Gillis might be able to save face by saying a cap dump is the top 6 player he wanted.

#21 Pears

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 05:58 PM

You also don't give any credence to the fact Luongo has a horrible contract, the CBA is going to have a cap drop

This is where you contradict yourself. You say Luongo has a bad contract now, which is true. But then go on to say that the new CBA will have a cap drop. After this all of a sudden Luongo's contract doesn't look bad at all. If player salaries are reduced by 12%, Luongo's cap hit would be roughly $4,693,333 and gradually going down for each year of his contract.

And btw, don't even suggest MG should put Luongo on waivers if he can't find a good deal for him, it really proves how little knowledge you have of hockey.

In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs


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#22 Tortorella's Rant

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 06:04 PM

Wedgewood is in the ECHL. I don't think he's taking Marty's job anytime soon.
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#23 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 07:27 PM

This is where you contradict yourself. You say Luongo has a bad contract now, which is true. But then go on to say that the new CBA will have a cap drop. After this all of a sudden Luongo's contract doesn't look bad at all. If player salaries are reduced by 12%, Luongo's cap hit would be roughly $4,693,333 and gradually going down for each year of his contract.

And btw, don't even suggest MG should put Luongo on waivers if he can't find a good deal for him, it really proves how little knowledge you have of hockey.

When did I ever say the salary/cap hits would drop? Players are dead set against their salaries being dropped and even in the NHL proposal they didn't have a cap or salary rollback. You my friend have just shown that you have not been reading up on the prosposals thus lacking hockey knowledge.

#24 Pears

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 09:15 PM

When did I ever say the salary/cap hits would drop? Players are dead set against their salaries being dropped and even in the NHL proposal they didn't have a cap or salary rollback. You my friend have just shown that you have not been reading up on the prosposals thus lacking hockey knowledge.

Wow you really seem to forget what you post. In your post a few posts above you said the new CBA will have a CAP DROP, which means players salaries & cap hits will have to be ROLLED BACK.

In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs


   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#25 King of the ES

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 11:07 AM

Wow you really seem to forget what you post. In your post a few posts above you said the new CBA will have a CAP DROP, which means players salaries & cap hits will have to be ROLLED BACK.


That won't increase Lou's value. It's a league-wide rollback, not a Roberto Luongo rollback.

Conor is saying the same things that I've been saying for a long time. Roberto Luongo's a very good goalie, that we should have kept. Schneider's the guy who should've been traded. We're now in a terrible bargaining position in trading Luongo, which Mike Gillis can be blamed for. We're selling low, into a weak market.

The return will not be good, and it's not related to how good Luongo is as a goalie. You guys who are saying that it's possible that we'll get the Leafs' 1st round pick are on glue. Not happening. And if this is what you're expecting, something to this effect, you should begin to mentally prepare yourselves to be very underwhelmed.

#26 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 03:28 PM

Wow you really seem to forget what you post. In your post a few posts above you said the new CBA will have a CAP DROP, which means players salaries & cap hits will have to be ROLLED BACK.

Just because the cap drops doesn't mean there will be a salary rollback and or cap hit rollback.The NHL proposed a cap of 59.9 but letting teams spend up to 70.2 this season. What part of that says anything about player cap hits being reduced?




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