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Burnaby Considers Replacing the RCMP with Municipal/Regional Police


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#1 Wetcoaster

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 02:29 PM

Burnaby was unhappy to sign on to the latest 20 year contract with the RCMP however there is an opt out clause upon two years notice. Burnaby is looking at the feasibility and cost of going with its own municipal force or possibly sharing policing services with New Westminster who already have a municipal police force in place.

Other municipalities are also looking at opting out of the RCMP contract including Port Coquitlam, North Vancouver District, North Vancouver City and Richmond.

The move is long past due to send this horribly broken and dysfunctional organization on its way out of BC.


Burnaby is continuing to look at policing alternatives to the RCMP after being forced by the province to sign what it considered a less-than-palatable 20-year contract last June.


The RCMP contract includes an opt-out clause in which participating municipalities would need to give two-years notice before changing to a different policing system.


But first, Burnaby and several other cities are studying the feasibility and ramifications of such a change.


Burnaby city staff are working with counterparts in Port Coquitlam, North Vancouver District, North Vancouver City and Richmond on the study, using a 10-year-old Surrey study as a baseline to start.


The focus has been on what the real costs are to leave the RCMP, including transition costs, the annual costs of running their own police department, and the cost of potential mergers of police forces, said Mayor Derek Corrigan.


"I also think, to be honest, it's an effort to try to get the RCMP to understand how dissatisifed we are with the way the relationship has operated between us, the provincial government and Ottawa."


Corrigan stressed that the cities have great relationships at the detachment level.


"Where we have problems, where we have the disconnect is with Ottawa and the fact they are constantly dictating edicts to the municipalities and to their own departments that cause us a lot of expense and concern. And that often they're done without any notice and without any consideration of the impact on local budgets."


He cited as an example the new $1.2-billion RCMP E Division headquarters being built in Surrey's Green Timbers area "and the fact we're expected to pay for part of that facility but we never asked for it, we never negotiated it, we're left to simply do as we're told and that's just not good enough."


As for possible policing partnerships for Burnaby, Corrigan said New Westminster "would be the most natural one."


Burnaby city staff are examining the possibility and whether growing an existing police department would be better and less expensive than starting their own, he said, noting much of the necessary infrastructure already exists in the Royal City.


"I think in the long run it would likely be a big advantage to New Westminster to spread the costs more broadly, but those are questions that both of us will have to answer through our staff."


He stressed that New Westminster has yet to take a position on the idea and the two cities would have to get into more serious discussions.


But Corrigan believes that city would be a much more natural fit than Vancouver.


"When you partner with a city as big as Vancouver with as many issues as Vancouver, the likelihood that we would have a lot of resources taken to service Downtown Vancouver would be problematic," he said.


"I think there's a much more even sort of relationship between New Westminster and Burnaby in the sense that we're operating in four town centres and New Westminster is like another town centre for policing purposes."


The study is slated to take 6 months and is expected to be completed early next year.

http://www.burnabyne.../175861801.html
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#2 Rhinogator

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 02:30 PM

???? best news I've heard all day.
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#3 ronthecivil

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 02:35 PM

Heck just merge Burnaby and New West outright.

What we really need is a GVRD police force but there's no way that's going to happen. (Heck I would love to see the GVRD torn in two!).
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#4 J.R.

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 02:40 PM

Folks finally starting to catch on eh....
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#5 canuck_trevor16

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 03:14 PM

a Metro Vancouver Police force minus city of Vancouver Police force? something like Scotland Yard? that does not cover city of London?
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#6 Common sense

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 03:19 PM

Who bears the brunt of the costs in setting up the force, hiring officers, and building new police centres? Also, how will this change the information shared between groups like the VPD and RCMP detachments in say Richmond or Surrey?
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#7 Dazzle

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 05:01 PM

"He cited as an example the new $1.2-billion RCMP E Division headquarters being built in Surrey's Green Timbers area "and the fact we're expected to pay for part of that facility but we never asked for it, we never negotiated it, we're left to simply do as we're told and that's just not good enough."


I just saw this building today. Fantastic looking building.


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#8 canuck_trevor16

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 05:18 PM

"He cited as an example the new $1.2-billion RCMP E Division headquarters being built in Surrey's Green Timbers area "and the fact we're expected to pay for part of that facility but we never asked for it, we never negotiated it, we're left to simply do as we're told and that's just not good enough."


I just saw this building today. Fantastic looking building.


yep
http://www.tpsgc-pwg...pprpfs-eng.html
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#9 Lancaster

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 11:51 PM

Sorry to sound naive.... but shouldn't Burnaby have been researching this like a year or two before the RCMP contract got renewed?
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#10 Wetcoaster

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 01:16 AM

Sorry to sound naive.... but shouldn't Burnaby have been researching this like a year or two before the RCMP contract got renewed?

At the time of the negotiations, Ottawa initially indicated that they were going to give the BC government and municipalities more input on issues where there was significant change in costing and then right at the time of concluding the agreement, the feds sprang a a unilateral cost increase on BC. And gave BC and the municipalities a "take it or leave it" ultimatum on a short fuse. By that time it was too late but BC insisted on an opt out clause with a 2 year notice period in the new policing contracts.

As a result Burnaby and other municipalities now are doing cost benefit analysis to see if a local police option would be workable. Personally I would like to see a Metro Vancouver Regional Police Force and Capital Region force for Victoria and its suburbs but that seems unlikely.

Here is the text of the current policing agreements with Ottawa:
http://www.pssg.gov....ments/index.htm

When Kash Heed was Solicitor General he commissioned a study to look at the cost of taking over policing in BC by a combination of municipal/metro regional forces for urban areas and a BC Police service for rural and outlying areas. After Heed left Cabinet over election expense problems, that study never saw the light of day.

Edited by Wetcoaster, 31 October 2012 - 01:21 AM.

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#11 Jägermeister

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 01:18 AM

Would be a step in the right direction.
As mentioned previously, a GVRD police force would be something I wouldn't mind seeing one day.
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#12 JaGuaR

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 07:34 AM

When Kash Heed was Solicitor General he commissioned a study to look at the cost of taking over policing in BC by a combination of municipal/metro regional forces for urban areas and a BC Police service for rural and outlying areas. After Heed left Cabinet over election expense problems, that study never saw the light of day.


I find it amusing that it was an RCMP investigation that forced Kash Heed to step down.
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#13 Wetcoaster

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 01:43 PM

I find it amusing that it was an RCMP investigation that forced Kash Heed to step down.

And special Crown prosecutors found no basis for criminal charges as result of the RCMP investigations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IY07IL3XfwA
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#14 ronthecivil

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 01:49 PM

And special Crown prosecutors found no basis for criminal charges as result of the RCMP investigations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IY07IL3XfwA


Corrigan better make sure he doesn't have any skeletons in his closet if he's serious about replacing the RCMP then! :lol:

Or perhaps :sick:

We shall see.
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#15 canuck_trevor16

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 02:31 PM

if an Metro Vancouver Regional force is created would it merge with the municipal PD that are not part of the RCMP like Vancouver? I think Vancouver should be separated, it the biggest city in the Lower Mainland should it just stay separated......this is be few years down the road until anything like this happen......Does regional force also cover provincial crimes as well as municipal crimes.....
There is still questions where the officers will come from? Surely not the RCMP? Recruit them from military or border service perhaps?
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#16 Ghostsof1915

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 10:55 PM

Bring back the BC Provincial Police. Then we can watch the watchmen.

http://en.wikipedia....ovincial_Police
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#17 Snake Doctor

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:52 PM

The RCMP has turned into the most corrupt orgainization in this country. British Columbia needs a provincial police force that we can monitor.
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#18 Ghostsof1915

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:59 PM

It stems from the fact the officers in the RCMP make an oath to the corps, not to protecting and defending the general public.
It might not seem like much, but it makes a difference.
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#19 Wetcoaster

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 01:16 PM

The RCMP has turned into the most corrupt orgainization in this country. British Columbia needs a provincial police force that we can monitor.

I am not sure about corrupt but most certainly "horribly broken" (David Brown) and "dysfunctional" (Dr. Duxbury) with little in the way of modern corporate governance principles as found by the two Brown Reports and studies by Professor Linda Duxbary (note that The RCMP commissioned one of the Duxbury reports).

A MATTER OF TRUST - Report of the Independent Investigator (David Brown, QC) into Matters Relating to RCMP Pension and Insurance Plans
http://www.publicsaf...l/report-en.pdf

As a result of the above report the federal government set up a five-member Task Force to provide advice on strengthening the accountability and governance of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) to examine in deatil the problems identified in that report. The task force report - Rebuilding the Trust – Report of the Task Force on Governance and Cultural Change in the RCMP:
http://www.publicsaf...mp-tfr-eng.aspx

And The RCMP Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow - An Independent Report concerning Workplace Issues at the Royal Canadian Mounted Police by Dr. Linda Duxbury - November 2, 2007
http://www.rcmp-grc....duxbury-eng.htm

In that report Dr. Duxbury held out a faint hope that the RCMP could be salvaged but two years later she changed her assessment when incoming RCMP Commissioner Paulson allowed that the "Day of the Stestson" might well be over.


Commissioner Paulson stated flatly that too many Mounties today believe that their authority entitles them to misuse power. He said his 30,000 employees need to better understand accountability and leadership – or the Mounties may be “one or two more earth-shattering heartbreaks” away from losing all credibility.


“I tell you, one day, there is going to be the removal of the Stetson if we don’t get this straight,” he said, when questioned about whether public trust has been violated. “We’ve got to get onto this. This is urgent.”


Once it would have been unthinkable for any Canadian – much less the Commissioner himself – to contemplate the dissolution of the RCMP. The force’s red Serge and Stetsons have long been the iconic image of Canada, its law-and-order history harking back to the Western frontier.


Yet given how controversies have piled up – from failed terrorism probes to overuse of force and, now, sexual-harassment complaints from female officers – many police observers question whether the beleaguered Mounties should remain in their current incarnation. “We are at a pretty critical period. … I don’t see the RCMP surviving,” said Linda Duxbury, a Carleton University management professor.

http://www.theglobea...article4181575/
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#20 hudson bay rules

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 01:17 PM

no idea behind the costs etc but my own personal exp over many many years is that the RCMP is way better than the West Van, Vancouver or New West coppers.
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#21 Wetcoaster

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 01:26 PM

It stems from the fact the officers in the RCMP make an oath to the corps, not to protecting and defending the general public.
It might not seem like much, but it makes a difference.

And that has to do with the RCMP history and structure as a para-military organization where loyalty to the RCMP and obedience to orders are the foundation values.

It is time for the RCMP to go and be replaced with a modern federal police agency that is not involved in municipal street level policing but is modelled on the US model of the FBI. Take well-educated candidates and train them as law enforcement officers and not high school graduates (or those with GEDs) and try to have them deal with sophisticated organized crime organizations, terrorists, cybercriminals, child pornographers and white collar criminals - something that have repeatedly demonstrated that they are incapable of doing in the present RCMP structure and incarnation and more importantly the RCMP does not play well with others such as CSIS and municipal police forces.

I have laid this out in detail in previous posts. For example see:
http://forum.canucks...1#entry10338881
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#22 Wetcoaster

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 01:27 PM

no idea behind the costs etc but my own personal exp over many many years is that the RCMP is way better than the West Van, Vancouver or New West coppers.

My personal experience as a peace officer and lawyer is directly opposite.
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

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#23 canuck_trevor16

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 06:45 PM

My guess is RCMP wont be disbanded anytime........it might be long time until a federal police force is established in Canada. RCMP just need to beef up their requirement and fire those officers who have face criminal charges, perjury, sexual harassment.
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