avelanch Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 True, I'll concede to that. But killing of certain animals is becoming socially unacceptable (seals, dolphins) which I believe should be universally applied, since there is no reason to limit it to those species. But that's just my opinion. Eating meat will become a serious issue since it is not sustainable (wild animals or farm raised), and humans are becoming empathetic towards more species as time goes by. Maybe, we'll reach cows at a certain point (I know they are not as cute as seals, but it's no reason for them to die). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 their cuteness isn't why they should be used for meat, their tastiness is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unknown33429 Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 their cuteness isn't why they should be used for meat, their tastiness is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avelanch Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 But we get other benefits from killing seals. The only reason killing them is unacceptable by a lot of people is not because they taste bad, but because they are cute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unknown33429 Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 i have no issue with seal hunting. Seals are dangerous, they'll maul your face clean off. Also, apparently seal meat is delicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Goose Posted November 2, 2012 Author Share Posted November 2, 2012 how is being in agony immoral? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avelanch Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Right, but this isn't about you individually, but about human beings in general, particularly in the western world. We are starting to empathize with more and more animals as time goes by. Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about people (not you personally) killing dolphins, or killing and eating dogs, or killing and eating rabbits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsedin33 Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 There's a reason why these animals have a lot of meat in em, there's a reason why their meat contain essential nutrients that make the body stronger (protein for development in brain etc,). A child that does not get his/her essential proteins can become malnurished... (don't point out the vegetarian alternatives like tofu, cavemen and our ancestors did not have this kind of technology). Frankly, regarldless of which religion you believe in or if you're an atheist, it should be concluded that many animals are on this earth for the very purpose of eating. Look at it this way, without eating animals you and I would probably not be here. Cavemen would not have survived the harsh weathers without eating meat. I was in a university seminar once in evolution, there was arguments that the ability for mankind to hunt allowed us to eat more protein and hence developed the brain. Monkeys today just eat fruits and vegetables mostly... and what are they? They are just monkeys. Meat is essential to our diet. Denying it just being completely delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unknown33429 Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 I've killed and eaten rabbits myself, so clearly I have no issue with it. as for dolphins, I don't see why we would, they have a very low conversion ratio. I try to stick to smaller fish with higher conversion ratios and sustainable populations. As for dogs, I wouldn't do it or approve of it, but that's because I grew up with dogs and own my own dog. just like I wouldn't approve of someone killing and eating a family member. then again, I would have no issue with killing/eating a wolf (a type of dog), especially if they were threatening me or my family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avelanch Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Interesting..I asked about rabbits since some people keep them as pets. I wonder if you would've felt differently if you were raised with a rabbit or not, since it is a herbivore and we seem to have less problem eating herbivores. With the rate of growth of human population, there will be no such thing as a natural sustainable fish population or any animal population that we want to consume. The only sustainability comes from agreements not to wipe out endangered species. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unknown33429 Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 There's a reason why these animals have a lot of meat in em, there's a reason why their meat contain essential nutrients that make the body stronger (protein for development in brain etc,). A child that does not get his/her essential proteins can become malnurished... (don't point out the vegetarian alternatives like tofu, cavemen and our ancestors did not have this kind of technology). Frankly, regarldless of which religion you believe in or if you're an atheist, it should be concluded that many animals are on this earth for the very purpose of eating. Look at it this way, without eating animals you and I would probably not be here. Cavemen would not have survived the harsh weathers without eating meat. I was in a university seminar once in evolution, there was arguments that the ability for mankind to hunt allowed us to eat more protein and hence developed the brain. Monkeys today just eat fruits and vegetables mostly... and what are they? They are just monkeys. Meat is essential to our diet. Denying it just being completely delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unknown33429 Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 i had a rabbit as a pet from ages 1-5. as for sustainable meat, it's easily done with regulations around their fishing/killing and including other forms of food. I don't eat a meat only diet, i doubt anyone does, as meat becomes more scarce the price goes up and people are forced to reduce their consumption, theories about unsustainability go off the deep end and make way too many assumptions about consumption practices. also, there are MANY sustainable types of fish that grow quick, are plentiful, and cheap (herring, squid, bivalves, etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avelanch Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 and the liscenses make the seafood sustainable... as do the hunting tags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unknown33429 Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 and the liscenses make the seafood sustainable... as do the hunting tags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountain Man Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Forgetting about the morality aspect of it, eating meat is just not sustainable in our society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice orca Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Gorillas are 400-500 pounds of pure mucle and eat nothing but roots, bugs, flowers fruits and veggies, (they would absolutly obliterate every MMA fighter in existence). Cavemen needed that food to survive, we are way beyond living in caves, we eat meat for pleasure, not survival. I've drastically reduced my meat intake, not because I think it's unethical, but because meat is pumped so full of hormones/steroids, preservatives/salt/chemicals that it does way more harm then good (cavemen ate it fresh like every other animal does). Not to mention that if you heat meat above 161 degrees, the protein denatures (loses its moisture and becomes stiff) and is no longer usable as a complete amino chain. Veggies, beans, nuts, there are lots of foods that are offer protein without the fat, cholesterol, chemical content of meat, and if its organic even better. I'll eat a burger or wings if I'm out with friends, but if I'm at home, its fruits shakes and big salads with lots of different vegetables, I'm in way better shape, have way more energy, practiaclly no stress, so I'm going to stick with what is working for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkeeterHansen Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Bacon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Right, but this isn't about you individually, but about human beings in general, particularly in the western world. We are starting to empathize with more and more animals as time goes by. Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about people (not you personally) killing dolphins, or killing and eating dogs, or killing and eating rabbits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucks_for_cup27 Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Dogs taste like crap (as does horse btw) but Rabbit done properly is delicious. I've never knowingly ate Dolphin so I don't know how it tastes. What you're saying is true to a point but there are plenty of ugly animals we don't generally eat because they don't taste good other than dog. For some/many I'm sure there is a part of them that couldn't eat a cow if they went out and saw the cow that was going to be butchered. And I'm sorry but you're wrong. Eating meat is absolutely sustainable in our society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyW Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 I find it hilarious that you throw around terms like "idiocy" when it is blatantly obvious that you (among others) are irrational and therefore being not sensible/idiots. Argument from AgonyExperience tells us that being in agony is morally badAnything morally bad always gives us a reason to want to avoid itTherefore, being in agony always gives us a reason to want to avoid it Argument from Moral ConsiderationAnything that has an interest (e.g. avoiding agony) is morally considerableSentient beings have interestsNon-human animals and humans are sentient beingsTherefore, non-human animals and humans are morally considerable Deduction from Both arguments: If non-human animals are morally considerable, and being in agony always gives us a reason to avoid it, then it rationally follows that causing non-human animals to be in agony gives us normative reason to alleviate it. If being in agony is worth avoiding, this reason must apply to non-human animals as well because they are morally considerable. To discount their interests requires arguing why animals are not morally considerable, or why their interests ought to be overridden. Taste doesn't cut it. Nutrition doesn't cut it either. That I rationally recognize these conclusions and act accordingly is the sensible/smart/intelligent thing to do. That isn't being self serving. That's being logical. What have you said so far Avelanche? All I can say about you is that you are one big nincompoop. To spell it out for you, that means foolish or stupid. Good day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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