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The Ethics of Eating Non-Human Animals


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#241 Salmonberries

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 02:06 PM

Goose is an Eloi.
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#242 Pistachios

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 08:00 PM

Why do so many of Silly Goose' posts have "stop using straw man on me" then end with "you're an idiot" ?


For starters the post was dumb because it was more than obvious that there was no iota of intelligent discussion involved.

Second, a straw man fallacy has to do with mischaracterizing or presenting a distorted view of another's argument in the attempt to render that argument weaker or destroy it. That doesn't apply here. And I don't think I have to give reasons why the post is dumb. It is blatantly obvious if you can think at all.
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#243 Pistachios

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 08:10 PM

The main argument of this thread - questioning the morality of it because you wouldn't want to eat your dog - is pretty weak. People become overly attached to their pets, and try to humanize them.


Is that so? And what exactly do you mean by "humanizing?" Answer that please because as of now your argument is pretty weak because it isn't clear at all why humanizing dogs renders meat eating a non-issue.

So on the one have we have common dietary practice, based on the observable natural order and proven over milleniums of human history. And on the other, criticism of the former based on nothing but a concept of pure sentimentality.


Naturalistic fallacy

And you're wrong about sentimentality because I have provided reasons for my argument. Understand the difference? No? Didn't think so.


"If non-human animals are morally considerable, and being in agony always gives us a reason to avoid it, then it rationally follows that causing non-human animals to be in agony gives us normative reason to alleviate it."

This right here sums up the whole thing. You can be against aspects of how food is handled but you're going way past that.

Some animals raised for food suffer.

Therefore all animals should not be raised for food???

What's your fancy name for the logical mistake you made here?


I've mentioned previously that I would be less troubled if animals were killed painlessly for food, but that is FAR from the case in terms of current practices e.g factory farms. I've also mentioned that I am somewhat hesitant about the ethical justification of using animals for food even if killed painlessly. Surely, you can obvserve that animals have desires that are worth fulfilling. Maybe enjoying the warmth of the sun or the company of others (including you) might not seem like much, but for many animals these are basic interests that they have. Doesn't that matter?

Edited by SILLY GOOSE, 17 November 2012 - 08:10 PM.

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#244 Salmonberries

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 11:46 PM

With the holiday season approaching, I though I would share a few mouth watering goose recipes perfect for those holiday family get-togethers.

Bon Appetit!

http://www.bbcgoodfo...n-stuffed-goose

http://www.backwoods....com/zgoos.html

http://www.simplyrec..._roast_a_goose/

http://www.dailymail...-trimmings.html

http://southernfood....ose_Recipes.htm

http://allrecipes.co...all.aspx?page=1
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#245 Common sense

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 01:57 AM

And you're an idiot.

Good day.


Y'know, calling a fellow poster an idiot really does the discussion no good. I don't know where you get off thinking it's acceptable practice considered you were warned of this in a previous post...
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#246 Common sense

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:04 AM

With the holiday season approaching, I though I would share a few mouth watering goose recipes perfect for those holiday family get-togethers.

Bon Appetit!

http://www.bbcgoodfo...n-stuffed-goose

http://www.backwoods....com/zgoos.html

http://www.simplyrec..._roast_a_goose/

http://www.dailymail...-trimmings.html

http://southernfood....ose_Recipes.htm

http://allrecipes.co...all.aspx?page=1


I prefer mine stuffed inside turkey. Then layered with bacon strips.
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#247 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 08:39 AM

I can't wait until next year when we do this thread again.
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#248 Jägermeister

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 11:18 AM

I had the most delicious Veal dinner last night.
Nothing like some tortured baby cow to quench my bloodlust.
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#249 Gumballthechewy

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 01:44 PM

Why do so many of Silly Goose' posts have "stop using straw man on me" then end with "you're an idiot" ?


Because he has a masters degree in philosophy and that entails calling people an idiot and disregarding anything they say if they don't agree with you or share your beliefs apparently.

Edited by Gumballthechewy, 18 November 2012 - 01:46 PM.

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#250 Pistachios

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 11:59 AM

Y'know, calling a fellow poster an idiot really does the discussion no good. I don't know where you get off thinking it's acceptable practice considered you were warned of this in a previous post...

Because he has a masters degree in philosophy and that entails calling people an idiot and disregarding anything they say if they don't agree with you or share your beliefs apparently.


When someone has no interest in rational debate whatsoever, then by definition they are an idiot. It's not surprising neither of you could figure that out on your own.

Good day.
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#251 Pistachios

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:02 PM

I can't wait until next year when we do this thread again.


I take it you gave up trying? Finally realized you can't you empty rhetoric to argue your way out of this one?

Funny how simple logic is.
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#252 Gumballthechewy

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:19 PM

*
POPULAR

When someone has no interest in rational debate whatsoever, then by definition they are an idiot.


Oh the irony of this statement...
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#253 ronthecivil

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:59 PM

This is dumb.

Good day.


So harming humans is ok but not animals. And I am dumb.

How many blows to the head have you taken in that ring?
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#254 ronthecivil

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 01:12 PM

I take it you gave up trying? Finally realized you can't you empty rhetoric to argue your way out of this one?

Funny how simple logic is.


There's no logic in the ethics of eating animals. It's just everyone's particular view of how or if we should change from what we evolved to eat over time should you prefer science or what God happens to think if your religious.

You shouldn't be surprised that you get empty rhetoric in exchange for your own.
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#255 Aladeen

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 01:47 PM

Why the eff do you say Non-Human animals instead of just saying animals? When someone says animals most rational logical people already assume you are not talking about humans. :picard:
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#256 Common sense

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:40 PM

When someone has no interest in rational debate whatsoever, then by definition they are an idiot. It's not surprising neither of you could figure that out on your own.

Good day.


You're the one with two deleted posts, and one warning from a mod telling you not to violate CDC rules. It's your decision to continue calling people idiots and getting your posts changed...
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#257 Common sense

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:41 PM

I can't wait until next year when we do this thread again.


My bet's on 2 days within David Booth posting another one of his trophies.
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#258 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 07:27 PM

I take it you gave up trying? Finally realized you can't you empty rhetoric to argue your way out of this one?

Funny how simple logic is.


LoL

Incorrect
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#259 Tom-The-Great

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 07:43 PM

LoL

Incorrect


thats a straw man

or a logical fallicy

or something like that.
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#260 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 08:19 PM

thats a straw man

or a logical fallicy

or something like that.


It's a stawish Ad hominem fallicy.
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#261 Gumballthechewy

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:57 PM

Eloi? As in a Morlocks supper?
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#262 Pistachios

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 10:10 AM

So harming humans is ok but not animals. And I am dumb.

How many blows to the head have you taken in that ring?

By your logic, hockey, or for that matter any combative sport is not permissable.

That is absurd.

I shouldn't have to point out the obvious that as a society we consent to/agree to what's involved. And amateur boxing is actually quite safe. Probbaly alot safer than hockey.

Your also equivocating the harm involved in factory farming with harm involved in sports. The physical/emotional harm involved in factory farming is nothing like the former.

There's no logic in the ethics of eating animals. It's just everyone's particular view of how or if we should change from what we evolved to eat over time should you prefer science or what God happens to think if your religious.

You shouldn't be surprised that you get empty rhetoric in exchange for your own.


So by your logic, anything goes? Including the holocaust? That's absurd. There's no ifs ands or buts about it. The holocaust is clearly wrong even if there might be some apparent disagreement about it (those who disagree are irrational).

Perhaps you should think your statements through before firing back silly objections.
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#263 Gumballthechewy

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 10:32 AM

So by your logic, anything goes? Including the holocaust? That's absurd. There's no ifs ands or buts about it. The holocaust is clearly wrong even if there might be some apparent disagreement about it (those who disagree are irrational).

Perhaps you should think your statements through before firing back silly objections.


Only you, silly goose, could take what he said and molest it into whatever the hell you're talking about... the holocoust? Really!?

You sir should think your statements through before babbling off whacked retorts.
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#264 Dogbyte

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 10:39 AM

But do most people do this? No. Most people don't even recognize this as morally obligatory.

Further, I've mentioned that it is unclear whether painless killing makes slaughtering animals for morally permissable. If I painlessly killed my cat because I think a fur hat would looko good, would the painless killing be sufficient justification? The experiences an animal has seem important. Whether those experiences are important to the animal itself is another discussion.

It's also important to remember that you are not the cat, or an all powerful diety.
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"What players need is the right kind of strength and power. That includes learning to understand that leverage and positioning can be just as important as raw strength when it comes to winning battles in the game. It's more about timing and athleticism --and avoiding injury--than it is about how much you can bench press. I don't know how many times I've seen a guy with the physique of a defensive end line up a guy half his size, only to bounce off when he connects. Sure, there is room in the game for big guys who can throw their weight around. But for the most part, players are smart enough to see them coming--and strong enough to protect the puck when they arrive. There are trainers out there who know how to devlop hockey-specific strength--though a trainer can help only if a player follows the program. All too often, I've seen players sign up with the best trainer, but not show up for their workouts and never to reap the benefits."

 

Bobby Orr - ORR MY STORY Viking 2013


#265 Common sense

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 10:45 AM

By your logic, hockey, or for that matter any combative sport is not permissable.

That is absurd.

I shouldn't have to point out the obvious that as a society we consent to/agree to what's involved. And amateur boxing is actually quite safe. Probbaly alot safer than hockey.

Your also equivocating the harm involved in factory farming with harm involved in sports. The physical/emotional harm involved in factory farming is nothing like the former.



So by your logic, anything goes? Including the holocaust? That's absurd. There's no ifs ands or buts about it. The holocaust is clearly wrong even if there might be some apparent disagreement about it (those who disagree are irrational).

Perhaps you should think your statements through before firing back silly objections.


How do I know you've gone off the deep end? When you think punching guys in the head is better than a game of no-contact shinny.
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#266 goalie13

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 10:54 AM

Maybe enjoying the warmth of the sun or the company of others (including you) might not seem like much, but for many animals these are basic interests that they have. Doesn't that matter?


Nope.
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#267 ronthecivil

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 10:56 AM

By your logic, hockey, or for that matter any combative sport is not permissable.

That is absurd.

I shouldn't have to point out the obvious that as a society we consent to/agree to what's involved. And amateur boxing is actually quite safe. Probbaly alot safer than hockey.

Your also equivocating the harm involved in factory farming with harm involved in sports. The physical/emotional harm involved in factory farming is nothing like the former.



So by your logic, anything goes? Including the holocaust? That's absurd. There's no ifs ands or buts about it. The holocaust is clearly wrong even if there might be some apparent disagreement about it (those who disagree are irrational).

Perhaps you should think your statements through before firing back silly objections.


Nope by my logic eating a cow or playing a game of hockey are just fine. I accept that some harm is part of how life works instead of crusading against it. You might win me over if all you were against was factory farming instead of just eating animals period but you go so overboard with it you would need to be in the no harm to anything ever camp to be consistent morally. I am simply pointing out that you are all over the map with your ethics.

It is possible to have rational thoughts where some harm is done but we try to reduce it where possible.
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#268 ronthecivil

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 10:57 AM

How do I know you've gone off the deep end? When you think punching guys in the head is better than a game of no-contact shinny.


You mean you can't punch a guy in the head in a game of no-contact shinny? What if the ref isn't looking?
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#269 Dogbyte

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 10:58 AM

[b] [/size]

Interesting read. Perhaps ethics isn't such a big issue after all; or maybe this just makes it worse. I admit trying to buy chicken while keeping in mind how it's treated is a pain in the arse. I have local sources but it can be hard to get enough from local small farms.[/font]


This exactly, If you live in society you also take blame for all things such as this. Only self righteous bigots see themselves in some holy light. If you really want to make an actual diffrence you must attack the root of the problem, which is big business.
Good Luck !!!

Lots of us actually do care but are not vain enough to think that just because we try hard and bother others that it in anyway accomplishes anything. Some things in life are tough and the answers are not obvious, this is one of them.
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"What players need is the right kind of strength and power. That includes learning to understand that leverage and positioning can be just as important as raw strength when it comes to winning battles in the game. It's more about timing and athleticism --and avoiding injury--than it is about how much you can bench press. I don't know how many times I've seen a guy with the physique of a defensive end line up a guy half his size, only to bounce off when he connects. Sure, there is room in the game for big guys who can throw their weight around. But for the most part, players are smart enough to see them coming--and strong enough to protect the puck when they arrive. There are trainers out there who know how to devlop hockey-specific strength--though a trainer can help only if a player follows the program. All too often, I've seen players sign up with the best trainer, but not show up for their workouts and never to reap the benefits."

 

Bobby Orr - ORR MY STORY Viking 2013


#270 ronthecivil

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 10:59 AM

Maybe enjoying the warmth of the sun or the company of others (including you) might not seem like much, but for many animals these are basic interests that they have. Doesn't that matter?


I have spoken to many cows and they have assured me that they are totally cool with me eating them.
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