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Top 10 Most Dominant Players of All Time


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#1 nowhereman

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 07:10 PM

I guess these are the kind of threads that pop up, when you're in the midst of a mind-numbing lockout but at least a little bit of hockey discussion can stoke the fires.

This thread is a bit different than the "Greatest Players of All Time" thread, in that I'd like to see who people think are the most dominant players of all time. For instance, Eric Lindros would make my top 10 list, even though fortune didn't exactly smile on his health and his legacy ended up a shadow of what it could be. As such, I consider him one of the most dominant players of all time but definitly not one of the "greatest". I also rank Lemieux ahead of Gretzky, even though Gretzky's career accomplishments are more impressive than Mario's. And Hasek, I think, is ahead of Roy, Sawchuk, and Plante, based purely on how he controlled a game and not how many cups he's won or records he's set.

I guess you could say this less about stats but more about performance.

My top 10:

1. Mario Lemieux
2. Bobby Orr
3. Wayne Gretzky
4. Jaromir Jagr
5. Dominik Hasek
6. Gordie Howe
7. Guy Lafleur
8. Sidney Crosby
9. Eric Lindros
10. Raymond Bourque

HM: Doug Harvey, Peter Forsberg, Valeri Kharlamov

Edited by nowhereman, 17 November 2012 - 02:51 AM.

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#2 TACIC

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 07:16 PM

modern: Ovechkin. he hits,scores and plays hard
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#3 Nas19

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 07:23 PM

modern: Ovechkin. he hits,scores and plays hard


Used to. 65 points in a year isn't dominating.

Edited by Nas19, 31 October 2012 - 07:24 PM.

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#4 DeNiro

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 07:23 PM

Forsberg should be top 10.

Forsberg in his prime was just a beast. He should be at least number 5 on there.

And if career length doesn't matter, Bure should at least be an honorable mention.

Edited by DeNiro, 31 October 2012 - 07:25 PM.

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#5 Pineapples

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 07:24 PM

Interesting idea. Maybe you should do a poll for 1st, then 2nd, etc.
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#6 nowhereman

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 07:30 PM

Forsberg should be top 10.

Forsberg in his prime was just a beast. He should be at least number 5 on there.

And if career length doesn't matter, Bure should at least be an honorable mention.

Forsberg was one of the reasons I created the thread, along with Lindros and Crosby (all of whom have trouble with injuries). I ended up with him as an HM but that last few were a toss up for me. I don't know if I'd have him in the top 5, ahead of Hasek and Howe but he is certainly one of the best examples of what this thread is about: dominance and not stats.
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#7 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 07:31 PM

If your going by when they're in their prime, then Ovechkin has to be on there, he was unstoppable.

Bure?
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#8 Pears

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 07:33 PM

I think the top 3 always has to be Gretzky, Lemieux, and Orr. Then the rest might look like this: (if we're only doing past greats)

4) Gordie Howe
5) Dominik Hasek
6) Jamior Jagr
7) Peter Forsberg
8) Ray Bourque
9) Eric Lindros
10 Mike Bossy
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

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#9 Garrison

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 07:41 PM

If your going by when they're in their prime, then Ovechkin has to be on there, he was unstoppable.

Bure?


If Ovechkin was unstoppable, where is his ring? He was good but couldn't get it done when it mattered,
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#10 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 07:49 PM

If Ovechkin was unstoppable, where is his ring? He was good but couldn't get it done when it mattered,


Lol, have you ever played hockey? Why do people always need to bring this up? It takes a good team and a lot of luck to win a cup, not just one player.

I guess Bure wasn't elite since he didn't win a cup.

Lebrons considered the best basketball player in the world and couldn't win the championship till he was on a team with two other superstars, and they didn't even win it the first year...

Edited by TheGame., 31 October 2012 - 07:50 PM.

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#11 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 07:54 PM

All I know is Orr is #1, other than that it is tough to judge the rest there are so many good candidates
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#12 ba;;isticsports

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 07:58 PM

I guess these are the kind of threads that pop up, when you're in the midst of a mind-numbing lockout but at least a little bit of hockey discussion can stokes the fires.

This thread is a bit different than the "Greatest Players of All Time" thread, in that I'd like to see who people think are the most dominant players of all time. For instance, Eric Lindros would make my top 10 list, even though fortune didn't exactly smile on his health and his legacy ended up a shadow of what it could be. As such, I consider him one of the most dominant players of all time but definitly not one of the "greatest". I also rank Lemieux ahead of Gretzky, even though Gretzky's career accomplishments are more impressive than Mario's. And Hasek, I think, is ahead of Roy, Sawchuk, and Plante, based purely on how he controlled a game and not how many cups he's won or records he's set.

I guess you could say this less about stats but more about performance.

My top 10:

1. Mario Lemieux
2. Bobby Orr
3. Wayne Gretzky
4. Jaromir Jagr
5. Dominik Hasek
6. Gordie Howe
7. Guy Lafleur
8. Sidney Crosby
9. Eric Lindros
10. Raymond Bourque

HM: Doug Harvey, Peter Forsberg, Valeri Kharlamov


Lindros top 10 really ?
Bossy and Forsberg belong
I would have Gretzky above Lemieux
Too soon for Crosby (imo)
what about Patrick Roy (Patrick Waaa) and Messier (disliked him Him after Edmonton)
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#13 biznasty

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 08:31 PM

Jordan
Kobe
Shaq
Wilt
Bird
Magic
Kareem
Russel
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#14 Pineapples

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 08:44 PM

If Ovechkin was unstoppable, where is his ring? He was good but couldn't get it done when it mattered,


Ovechkin in his prime was a lot better than any of the Kings forwards who all just won a cup.

Cup rings don't mean anything when evaluating an individual hockey player.
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#15 nowhereman

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 09:30 PM

Lindros top 10 really ?
Bossy and Forsberg belong
I would have Gretzky above Lemieux
Too soon for Crosby (imo)
what about Patrick Roy (Patrick Waaa) and Messier (disliked him Him after Edmonton)

Lindros, when he was healthy, was a 6ft 5" monster who could go through you or around you. I don't know that the league had ever seen a skillset quite like his. IMO, he's the definition of dominance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWqyNCs8i3g

I don't think the term "too soon" really applies to this thread. Personally, I feel that Crosby is better than Forsberg, so even though he's only 25, I think he deserves mention. If not for his injuries, he'd already have one of the most impressive trophy cases in the history of the league.

Edited by nowhereman, 31 October 2012 - 09:31 PM.

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#16 ajhockey

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 09:45 PM

So basically, for me, it's the same thing as the "greatest players" except that you ignore longevity. I was gonna make a simple list, but you know me, I had to go on and expand on each player and stuff.

1. Wayne Gretzky
Gretzky is the most dominant player, period. He controlled the ice like none other. It seemed like he always knew exactly what was going to happen.

2. Bobby Orr
No defense man ever dominated like Orr. He could change the speed of the game with just one rush.


3. Mario Lemieux
Lemieux dominated with such an unstoppable force during his reign.

4. Mike Bossy
One of the best snipers of all-time. He could make nothing turn into a goal with a good shot.

5. Dominik Hasek
He gets bonus points for his nick-name. :P. The Dominator really dominated when he was at the top of his game. Some others were more consistent, but few were better during their best moments.

6. Joe Malone
If you've never heard of Joe Malone, look him up. He's the only player with more than 100 games that has scored MORE than 1 goal per game. He scored a mind boggling 44 goals in 20 games in 1917-18. He also scored 7 goals in one game, another record.

7. Marcel Dionne
Over 1.3 points per game over his career. Dionne had six seasons of 50 goals or more as well as six seasons of 120 points or more, including three consecutive 130+ point seasons.

8. Pavel Bure
No bias here. Seriously. Most of this list is based off statistics. The stat that put Bure on this list is his career goals per game. He has the 3rd highest goals-per-game of players since 1940 (min. 100 games).

9. Sidney Crosby
Thus far Sidney Crosby has slowly been dominating the league more and more. When he started in the NHL he was one of the most dominant players in the league. Now, he's pretty much the undisputed most dominant player in the league. He hasn't finished his career yet, but so far he's been very dominant when he's healthy.

10. Valeri Kharlamov
The only non-NHLer on the list, Kharlamov completely dominated with the Red Army team in the 1970s. He didn't let up against Canada in the 1972 Summit Series, when Canada had to get Bobby Clarke to break his ankle to stop him from almost single handedly beating the Canadians.
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#17 DeNiro

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 11:10 PM

Some people seem to be forgetting how dominant Forsberg was in this thread. Not too many players brought the mix of skill and brute force that he did. And not many players enjoyed physical punishment more than him.

If we're talking about being a dominant player, it has to include being physically dominant too, does it not? If that's the case, there's no way Crosby is more dominant than Forsberg. Forsberg put up similar numbers to Crosby when he was younger, while being an absolute freight train on skates.

For those who forget:


Edited by DeNiro, 31 October 2012 - 11:10 PM.

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#18 Nas19

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:27 AM

Some people seem to be forgetting how dominant Forsberg was in this thread. Not too many players brought the mix of skill and brute force that he did. And not many players enjoyed physical punishment more than him.

If we're talking about being a dominant player, it has to include being physically dominant too, does it not? If that's the case, there's no way Crosby is more dominant than Forsberg. Forsberg put up similar numbers to Crosby when he was younger, while being an absolute freight train on skates.


Well Crosby is definitely not as physical as Forsberg but if you're looking at the numbers Crosby puts up more points per game than Forsberg did. And Crosby may not hit like Forsberg did but Crosby is almost impossible to knock off the puck. Crosby's legs are like tree stumps. Kinda like Forsberg.

They are very close in build. Forsberg is 6'0 205 pounds. Crosby is 5'11 200.

I think Crosby and Forsberg are very similar players. Crosby puts up more points but doesn't hit that much. Forsberg didn't put up as many points as Crosby but is more physical.

EDIT: I don't remember Forsberg ever dominating the league like this:



I could be wrong though. My memory of the early 2000's and 1990's isn't that good.

Edited by Nas19, 02 November 2012 - 01:46 PM.

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#19 Captain Aerosex

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:54 AM

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Bobby Orr was the best at everything when he played. Easily him. He could control the game completely since he played from the back end.

Ken Dryden said Bobby Clarke was the only player (other than Orr of course) that he considered capable of dominating a game completely.
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#20 DownUndaCanuck

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 01:15 AM

Don't forget that guys like Crosby and Ovechkin are controlling games and putting up historic numbers despite playing in a league where checking is much tighter, defences are far better and goalies are leagues better than what they were with new technologies helping their equipment.

No disrespect to Gretzky and Lemieux, but they wouldn't be anywhere near as dominant in todays league as they were during their eras and it's something we shouldn't forget when comparing players of different times.
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#21 ajhockey

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 03:14 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRtrQ1YrCzw


Watching that video made me realize how, more than ever, I have a huge hole in my life left from NHL hockey. Ugh, it seems so sad and empty. I need hockey back dangit.
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#22 CanucksHD

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 04:23 AM

Yzerman, Sakic, Modano
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#23 Burnsey

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 05:49 AM

why are people saying 'Ovechkin in his prime'... The guy is 27, he isn't 40 and won't retire for some time. I think he is yet to hit his prime. The Sedins started their prime in their late 20's/early 30's like a lot of other NHLers. He has had 65 and 85 point seasons the past 2 years which have been considered bad. If those stats are bad then what do you consider good or amazing. This year our top players (stats-wise) were the Sedins with 81 and 67.
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#24 Langdon Algur

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 08:48 AM

Lindros top 10 really ?
Bossy and Forsberg belong
I would have Gretzky above Lemieux
Too soon for Crosby (imo)
what about Patrick Roy (Patrick Waaa) and Messier (disliked him Him after Edmonton)


He's talking about players that have proven they are dominant on the ice, not players that have had teh greatest overall carrers. Therefore how can it be too soon for Crosby? He's already proven he's dominant by having the 4th highest PPG for any player with over 500pts, won a Cup and Olympic Gold and multiple inividual players awards. Lindros as much as I hate to admit it was also dominate in his prime when he was healthy and is deserving of this list too as much as it pains me to admit it.
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#25 Langdon Algur

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 09:26 AM

My top 10

1) Wayne Gretzkey- how can anyone with the NHL record for most points, assists and goals in both the regular season and playoffs not be dominate
2) Mario Lemieux- only player whose skills and stats compare with the Great One
3) Bobby Orr- putting on the numbers like he did as a defencemen show's he was able to dominate.
4) Mike Bossy- 2nd all time for PPG, 3rd all time for PPG and winner of 4 Stanley Cups.
5) Patrick Roy- 3 Conn Smythe trophies show Roy could dominate win it counts
6) Gordie Howe- could hurt you physically and on the score board, a dominate player in the NHL for decades
7) Sidney Crosby- Fourth highest PPG of any player with more than 500pts despite playing in today's tight checking NHL, scored the golden goal and is youngest ever captain to win a Stanley Cup.
8) Pavel Bure- one of the most exciting players to ever play the game, was impossible to stop when he was in his prime.
9) Maurice "the Rocket" Richard- the orginal Rocket. Like Pure he was impossible to stop when in full stride and was one of the most existing players to watch as fan but one of the hardest to play against.
10) Eric Lindross- Showed flashes of brillance and when heathly proved he was amongest the best power forwards in the game.

Honorable Mention

1) Scott Stevens- Just ask number 10 on my list how hard Scott Stevens was to play against, dominated by intimidating his oppendents with big hits.

2) Dominik Hasek- the nickname say's it all really.

3) Mark Messier- if you don't think he can dominate just ask the 94 Canucks.

4) Peter Foresberg- one of teh best two way players to ever play the game, dominated the league when healthy.

5) Valeri Kharlamov- it took a cheap shot from Bobby Clarke to shut him down and help Canada win the Summit Series.
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#26 Bodee

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 10:00 AM

I would like to see Peter Stastny get a mention.
  • 1st player in NHL history to collect over 100 points in rookie year (109). Note: Wayne Gretzky had 137 points in his first year in the NHL (1979–80), but was not considered a "rookie", due to his time spent with the World Hockey Association's Indianapolis Racers and Edmonton Oilers, where he won the rookie of the year award in that league during the 1978–79 season with 104 points.
  • One of four players to record 1000 or more points in the decade of the 1980s (1059). Previously, only Phil Esposito had topped 1000 points in one decade.
  • One of 7 players in NHL history to record at least 6 consecutive 100+ point seasons.
  • Shares NHL record for assists by a rookie (70) with Joé Juneau.
  • Holds NHL record for points in a game by a rookie with 8 (four goals and four assists on February 22, 1981 against Washington Capitals).
  • Holds NHL record for points in a road game with 8 (four goals and four assists on February 22, 1981 against Washington Capitals).
  • Holds NHL record for points in 2 consecutive games with 14 (3 goals and 3 assists on February 20, 1981 against Vancouver Canucks and 4 goals and 4 assists on February 22, 1981 against Washington Capitals).[1]
  • Recorded 100th NHL point with an assist on March 29, 1981 against the Montreal Canadiens. He was the first official NHL rookie to accomplish the feat.
  • Recorded 1000th NHL point on October 19, 1989 with a goal against the Chicago Blackhawks, and was the second European-born player, and first trained in Europe, in NHL history to do so. Stan Mikita, the first European-born player to score 1000 points, was born in Slovakia, but raised in Canada.
  • 4th fastest player in NHL history to score 200 points (131 GP) behind Wayne Gretzky (117), Mario Lemieux (128) & Cy Denneny (130)
  • 2nd fastest player in NHL history to score 300 points (186 GP) behind Wayne Gretzky (159) tied with Mario Lemieux (186)
  • 3rd fastest player in NHL history to score 400 points (247 GP) behind Wayne Gretzky (197) & Mario Lemieux (240)
  • 3rd fastest player in NHL history to score 500 points (322 GP) behind Wayne Gretzky (234) & Mario Lemieux (287)
  • 3rd fastest player in NHL history to score 600 points (394 GP) behind Wayne Gretzky (273) & Mario Lemieux (323)
  • 3rd fastest player in NHL history to score 700 points (457 GP) behind Wayne Gretzky (317) & Mario Lemieux (363)
  • 4th fastest player in NHL history to score 800 points (531 GP) behind Wayne Gretzky (352) & Mario Lemieux (410) & Mike Bossy (524)
  • 4th fastest player in NHL history to score 900 points (599 GP) behind Wayne Gretzky (385) Mario Lemieux (463) & Mike Bossy (582)
  • 4th fastest player in NHL history to score 1000 points (682 GP) behind Wayne Gretzky (424) Mario Lemieux (513) & Mike Bossy (656)
Also as the poster above said Joe Sakic must also be in with a shout.

Edited by Bodee, 01 November 2012 - 10:03 AM.

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#27 susraiders

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:27 PM

I would consider Scott Stevens to be an honorable mention as well as Ovechkin. As much as people hate him, he can single handedly manhandle any team on any given day.
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#28 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 02:22 PM

why are people saying 'Ovechkin in his prime'... The guy is 27, he isn't 40 and won't retire for some time. I think he is yet to hit his prime. The Sedins started their prime in their late 20's/early 30's like a lot of other NHLers. He has had 65 and 85 point seasons the past 2 years which have been considered bad. If those stats are bad then what do you consider good or amazing. This year our top players (stats-wise) were the Sedins with 81 and 67.


Players hit their primes at different times. Ovechkin plays a fast power game and players who play that way usually are in their primes at a younger age because it takes a toll on your body as you get older.

Sedins are the least physical players in the league so they should be able to stay in their prime longer then a player like Ovechkin.

Ovechkin was pretty much in his prime when he entered the league.

Imo Sedins and Ovechkin are both on their decline, but a steady slow decline.

Edit: If you watch Ovechkin now compared to his first years when he entered the league he doesn't have the same explosiveness and power but he still has the same skill, which is why I think he was on roids, but tons of players use them.

He's not even in the top 30 for scoring in the KHL........... I think Yakupov has as many or really close to as many points as him playing on a way weaker team with less ice time.

Edited by TheGame., 01 November 2012 - 03:01 PM.

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#29 ajhockey

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 03:19 PM

I would like to see Peter Stastny get a mention.

  • 1st player in NHL history to collect over 100 points in rookie year (109). Note: Wayne Gretzky had 137 points in his first year in the NHL (1979–80), but was not considered a "rookie", due to his time spent with the World Hockey Association's Indianapolis Racers and Edmonton Oilers, where he won the rookie of the year award in that league during the 1978–79 season with 104 points.
  • One of four players to record 1000 or more points in the decade of the 1980s (1059). Previously, only Phil Esposito had topped 1000 points in one decade.
  • One of 7 players in NHL history to record at least 6 consecutive 100+ point seasons.
  • Shares NHL record for assists by a rookie (70) with Joé Juneau.
  • Holds NHL record for points in a game by a rookie with 8 (four goals and four assists on February 22, 1981 against Washington Capitals).
  • Holds NHL record for points in a road game with 8 (four goals and four assists on February 22, 1981 against Washington Capitals).
  • Holds NHL record for points in 2 consecutive games with 14 (3 goals and 3 assists on February 20, 1981 against Vancouver Canucks and 4 goals and 4 assists on February 22, 1981 against Washington Capitals).[1]
  • Recorded 100th NHL point with an assist on March 29, 1981 against the Montreal Canadiens. He was the first official NHL rookie to accomplish the feat.
  • Recorded 1000th NHL point on October 19, 1989 with a goal against the Chicago Blackhawks, and was the second European-born player, and first trained in Europe, in NHL history to do so. Stan Mikita, the first European-born player to score 1000 points, was born in Slovakia, but raised in Canada.
  • 4th fastest player in NHL history to score 200 points (131 GP) behind Wayne Gretzky (117), Mario Lemieux (128) & Cy Denneny (130)
  • 2nd fastest player in NHL history to score 300 points (186 GP) behind Wayne Gretzky (159) tied with Mario Lemieux (186)
  • 3rd fastest player in NHL history to score 400 points (247 GP) behind Wayne Gretzky (197) & Mario Lemieux (240)
  • 3rd fastest player in NHL history to score 500 points (322 GP) behind Wayne Gretzky (234) & Mario Lemieux (287)
  • 3rd fastest player in NHL history to score 600 points (394 GP) behind Wayne Gretzky (273) & Mario Lemieux (323)
  • 3rd fastest player in NHL history to score 700 points (457 GP) behind Wayne Gretzky (317) & Mario Lemieux (363)
  • 4th fastest player in NHL history to score 800 points (531 GP) behind Wayne Gretzky (352) & Mario Lemieux (410) & Mike Bossy (524)
  • 4th fastest player in NHL history to score 900 points (599 GP) behind Wayne Gretzky (385) Mario Lemieux (463) & Mike Bossy (582)
  • 4th fastest player in NHL history to score 1000 points (682 GP) behind Wayne Gretzky (424) Mario Lemieux (513) & Mike Bossy (656)


Yeah, Stastny was close to making my list.
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#30 Tiburon

Tiburon

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 07:49 AM

If Ovechkin was unstoppable, where is his ring? He was good but couldn't get it done when it mattered,


Is Ryan Shannon better than Ovechkin?
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