Captain Aerosex Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Thats just a complete joke, Lemieux came out of a 5 yr retirement in 2000-2001 and played 43 games and had 76 points at 35 yrs old in what is considered the dead puck era and you say Crosby and Ovechkin are supertor in dominance ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucksnihilist Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Depends on the definition Truly Elite: Meaning that they were literally way better than any other player on the ice, and could take control of a game no matter who was playing on the other side. When they were on the ice, every shift was an event, when they had the puck, they almost always did something that generated a scoring chance or was just really smart that other players wouldn't even dream of. Only 4 really, in no particular order: Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Howe. And this only is referring to their primes of course, up to early-30s. Past that none of them were truly elite. (mind willing, body can't follow ;( Elite: Meaning that they can perform on a number of different levels better than their peers. They can take control of some games, but it depends on the opposition and match-ups to some extent. They consistently perform at a top level but are kind of predictable over time, and rarely show any "magic". I would lump all of today's stars into this category. None of them is miles above the other, not really. For example: The top "Truly Elite" players never had a problem beating a goalie that was standing on his head, not in their primes. They had some magic that was amazing to watch - they would find a way to score that wasn't a garbage goal either, it would be due to some unbelievable creativity. It would often really blow your mind (Lemieux putting the puck between Bourque's legs - turning a norris trophy defense-man inside-out is often a highlight reel clip). That just isn't there in any player in the game today, they are wonderful players, but not the same. If you never saw any of the 4 truly elite players play, you will never know what I'm talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AJ- Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Something tells me you have not even watched or seen majority of these guys play so the opinion your giving with your choice of them in your top 10 seems laughable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHL rocks Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Take out Crosby and add in OV. Only player in the history of the NHL to score 300 goals and 300 assists in his first 6 season while NOT playing in the 1980's is Ovechkin. Pure dominance. click link and be amazed. http://www.hockey-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=combined&year_min=&year_max=&season_start=1&season_end=6&age_min=0&age_max=99&birth_country=&franch_id=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=S&handed=&c1stat=goals&c1comp=gt&c1val=299&c2stat=assists&c2comp=gt&c2val=300&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Karlsson Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Take out Crosby and add in OV. Only player in the history of the NHL to score 300 goals and 300 assists in his first 6 season while NOT playing in the 1980's is Ovechkin. Pure dominance. click link and be amazed. http://www.hockey-re...order_by=points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowhereman Posted November 4, 2012 Author Share Posted November 4, 2012 Take out Crosby and add in OV. Only player in the history of the NHL to score 300 goals and 300 assists in his first 6 season while NOT playing in the 1980's is Ovechkin. Pure dominance. click link and be amazed. http://www.hockey-re...order_by=points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHL rocks Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Outside of OV's one peak season (in 07-08), I always thought Crosby was the better player. He did more with less, controlling the pace of a game like no other player in the NHL and doing it with a revolving door of wingers that included Nils Ekman, Pascal Dupuis, Colby Armstrong, Ryan Malone, and Chris Kunitz. Can you imagine what he could have done skating alongside a player of Backstrom's caliber and playing on a team whose entire system was built around feeding him the puck? Ovechkin didn't have very many dimensions to his game. He hit and he scored. Crosby, at this point in his career, is more multi-dimensional than OV could ever hope to be. Had he been healthy, Crosby would already have more than 800 points, compared to Ovechkin's 679. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowhereman Posted November 4, 2012 Author Share Posted November 4, 2012 Had Crosby been healthy blah blah blah..... Had I been Bill Gates blah blah blah..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowhereman Posted November 4, 2012 Author Share Posted November 4, 2012 Bobby Orr was the best at everything when he played. Easily him. He could control the game completely since he played from the back end. Ken Dryden said Bobby Clarke was the only player (other than Orr of course) that he considered capable of dominating a game completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHL rocks Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Your comment would seem more relevant, if the entire point of this thread wasn't an effort to look beyond stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowhereman Posted November 4, 2012 Author Share Posted November 4, 2012 And yeah, you failed to mention Crosby plays the PP with Malkin, and gets double shifted with Malkin. Not sure how much of Crosby you watched but I watched most of Crosby and OV's games for the 1st few years of their careers (satellite). OV hands down every day and twice on Sat night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Most definitely not. Colin Fraser has two. Colin Fraser > majority of the NHL. Yeah, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucksnihilist Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Ovechkin was better than crosby. then he stopped caring. had some magic but isn't interested anymore by the looks of it. Crosby was a better playmaker. then he got a concussion and had to change his game. he's a poor man's sakic now, could have been an yzerman. gotta love how the NHL protects it's stars - pathetic. can you imagine the NFL letting Joe Montana get beaned in his prime? Neither come even close to Gretzky or Lemieux though... seriously those 2 blew people's minds. regardless of era. Ovechkin is like a Mark Messier on the wing (or could be if he cared), Crosby like a Marcel Dionne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas19 Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Ovechkin was better than crosby. then he stopped caring. had some magic but isn't interested anymore by the looks of it. Crosby was a better playmaker. then he got a concussion and had to change his game. he's a poor man's sakic now, could have been an yzerman. gotta love how the NHL protects it's stars - pathetic. can you imagine the NFL letting Joe Montana get beaned in his prime? Neither come even close to Gretzky or Lemieux though... seriously those 2 blew people's minds. regardless of era. Ovechkin is like a Mark Messier on the wing (or could be if he cared), Crosby like a Marcel Dionne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowhereman Posted November 4, 2012 Author Share Posted November 4, 2012 Ovechkin was better than crosby. then he stopped caring. had some magic but isn't interested anymore by the looks of it. Crosby was a better playmaker. then he got a concussion and had to change his game. he's a poor man's sakic now, could have been an yzerman. gotta love how the NHL protects it's stars - pathetic. can you imagine the NFL letting Joe Montana get beaned in his prime? Neither come even close to Gretzky or Lemieux though... seriously those 2 blew people's minds. regardless of era. Ovechkin is like a Mark Messier on the wing (or could be if he cared), Crosby like a Marcel Dionne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Aerosex Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Crosby was a better playmaker. then he got a concussion and had to change his game. he's a poor man's sakic now, could have been an yzerman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uber_pwnzor Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Take out Crosby and add in OV. Only player in the history of the NHL to score 300 goals and 300 assists in his first 6 season while NOT playing in the 1980's is Ovechkin. Pure dominance. click link and be amazed. http://www.hockey-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=combined&year_min=&year_max=&season_start=1&season_end=6&age_min=0&age_max=99&birth_country=&franch_id=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=S&handed=&c1stat=goals&c1comp=gt&c1val=299&c2stat=assists&c2comp=gt&c2val=300&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I love how this became a thread about Crosby Vs. Ovie. It's almost as never ending as XBOX vs. PS3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sting Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 1 Lemieux 2 Orr 3 Gretzky 4 Messier 5 Jagr 6 Crosby 7 Hasek 8 Roy 9 Lindros 10 Forsberg HM- Sakic, Yzerman, Bure, Sundin, Ovechkin, Brodeur, Selanne, Pronger, Lidstrom, Iginla, Trottier. My criteria was.1 modern day players 2 Impact on the game from the position of match up. 3. Physical strength or athletic and skill dominance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langdon Algur Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 How is Rocket Richard not in any of these conversations? He is just as good as Howe if not better. I generally agree with the list otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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