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Chinese submarines soon to carry nukes, U.S. report


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#1 key2thecup

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 07:49 PM

China submarines soon to carry nukes, draft U.S. report says


(Reuters) - China appears to be within two years of deploying submarine-launched nuclear weapons, adding a new leg to its nuclear arsenal that should lead to arms-reduction talks, a draft report by a congressionally mandated U.S. commission says.

China is alone among the original nuclear weapons states to be expanding such deterrent forces, the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission said in a draft of its 2012 report to the U.S. Congress.

Beijing is "on the cusp of attaining a credible nuclear triad of land-based intercontinental ballistic missiles, submarine-launched ballistic missiles, and air-dropped nuclear bombs," the report says.
China has had a largely symbolic ballistic missile submarine capability for decades but is only now set to establish a "near-continuous at-sea strategic deterrent," the draft said.

The deployment of such a hard-to-track submarine-launched leg of China's nuclear arsenal could have significant consequences in East Asia and beyond. It also could add to tensions between the United States and China, the world's two biggest economies.

For instance, any Chinese effort to ensure a retaliatory capability against a notional U.S. nuclear strike "would necessarily affect Indian and Russian perceptions about the potency of their own deterrent capabilities vis-à-vis China," the report said.

China is party to many major international pacts and regimes regarding nuclear weapons and materials. But it remains outside of key arms limitation and control conventions, such as the New Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty signed in April 2010 and the 1987 Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty. The United States historically has approached these bilaterally with Russia.
Congress should require the U.S. State Department to spell out current and planned efforts to integrate China into existing and future nuclear arms reduction, limitation, and control discussions and agreements, the draft said.

In addition, Congress should "treat with caution" any proposal to unilaterally, or in the context of a bilateral deal with Russia, reduce operational U.S. nuclear forces without clearer information being made available to the public about China's nuclear stockpile and force posture, it said.
A spokesman for the Chinese embassy in Washington, Geng Shuang, did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

China is estimated by the Arms Control Association, a private nonpartisan group in Washington, to have a total of 240 nuclear warheads. The United States, by contrast, has some 5,113, including tactical, strategic and nondeployed weapons.

The Pentagon declined to comment directly on China's march toward creating a credible nuclear "triad" involving strategic bombers, intercontinental ballistic missiles and submarine-launched ballistic missiles.

"We monitor carefully China's military developments and urge China to exhibit greater transparency regarding its capabilities and intentions," Lieutenant Colonel Monica Matoush, a Defense Department spokeswoman, said by email.

Any assessment of China's ability to have a nuclear triad would be an intelligence matter and likely be classified in nature, she added.

The final version of the report is to be released next Wednesday by the U.S.-China commission, a 12-member bipartisan group set up in 2000 to report to U.S. lawmakers on security implications of U.S.-China trade.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/08/us-china-usa-military-idUSBRE8A705720121108


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#2 Armada

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 08:01 PM

Thank god Romney wasn't elected or else it would have already been thermonuclear war.
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#3 Offensive Threat

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 09:13 PM

This type of thing is why Japan and Australia are joining forces to try to get a NATO style defense pact going with other Southeast Asian nations. China is getting too powerful. They are still communists. Everybody seems to forget that.
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#4 key2thecup

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:50 PM

US draft report: China to deploy submarine-launched nukes within two years



Washington, Nov. 8, 2012

While the United States and Israel have been preoccupied with trying to pre-empt Iran from developing nuclear weapons, in a latest disturbing development it appears that China is just two years short of deploying its own submarine-launched nuclear weapons among other nukes, states a US draft report.

This revelation has been made in the draft by the 12-member, US-China Economic and Security Review Commission, which has thecongressional mandate to look into the same. The latest bunch of nuclear weapons is sure to add a new leg to Beijing’s current nuclear arsenal.

Among the original nuclear-equipped nations such as the US, Russia, UK and France, it is only China which is going ahead and developing such deterrent forces, states the draft 2012 report to the US Congress. This latest development could well trigger off fresh round of arms race in the region. Therefore, the report recommends an arms-reduction talk with China in the near future.

Beijing, which is appointing a new president today, is “the most threatening” power in cyberspace and poses the biggest challenge to US supply chain integrity, the US draft report says. It goes on to inform that China is now on the brink of acquiring “a credible nuclear triad of land-based intercontinental ballistic missiles, submarine-launched ballistic missiles, and air-dropped nuclear bombs."

China already owns a hugely symbolic ballistic missile submarine capability for decades, but it is only now all set to establish a "near-continuous at-sea strategic deterrent," the report informs. What is quite disturbing is that the deployment of such stealth Chinese submarine-launched nukes will have serious consequences in East Asia and beyond.

It is, undoubtedly, going to add to the tensions between the US and China, the globe’s two largest economies. For instance, any Chinese effort to ensure a retaliatory capability against a hypothetical US nuclear strike "would necessarily affect Indian and Russian perceptions about the potency of their own deterrent capabilities vis-a-vis China," adds the report.

While China is a signatory to several major international pacts and regimes pertaining to nuclear arsenal, however, it remains outside the purview of critical arms limitation and control conventions. These include the key New Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty signed in April 2010 and the 1987 Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty.

It may be noted that in the past the United States has approached these treaties with Russia bilaterally. The draft report recommends that the US State Department, with congressional support, work toward integrating China into present and future nuclear arms reduction, limitation, and control discussions and agreements.

Further, the draft report urges that Congress "treat with caution" any proposal to unilaterally, or in the context of a bilateral deal with Russia, reduce operational US nuclear forces without clearer information being made available to the public about China's nuclear stockpile and force posture.

According to the Arms Control Association (ACA), a private nonpartisan group in Washington, China is estimated to have a total of 240 nuclear warheads, while the United States has around 5,113, including tactical, strategic and non-deployed weapons.
The final edition of the report is to be released next Wednesday by the US-China Economic and Security Review Commission, a 12-member bipartisan group established 12 years ago in 2000 to apprise US lawmakers on security implications of US-China trade.

A request for comment to a spokesman for the Chinese embassy in Washington, Geng Shuang, reportedly did not elicit an immediate response. While Pentagon refused to comment directly on the latest development. Lt. Col. Monica Matoush, a Defense Department spokeswoman replied on the matter by email.

Matoush said that the US is monitoring Chinese military developments carefully and urging it to display more transparency with regard to its capabilities and intentions. She went to to add that any assessment of China's ability to have a nuclear triad would fall in the realm of intelligence matter and hence likely be classified in nature.

Opinion: From China’s point of view, it is clear from the US draft report that it is marching toward creating a viable and credible nuclear deterrent, a "triad" comprising of strategic bombers, intercontinental ballistic missiles and submarine-launched ballistic missiles. However, for the US and rest of the world, it is something that is going to be looked at with increasing alarm and concern.
However, looking at the entire issue of nuclear weapons accumulation/deterrence impartially, the point which needs to be highlighted is that so long as nations around the world continue to develop and retain nuclear weapons, and base their national security on credible nuclear deterrence, nuclear submarines will continue to be made and deployed be it China, Russia, UK, US or any other nation.

Currently for China, its biggest adversary is the United States, which has maintained a massive and expensive nuclear arsenal triad, comprising of heavy bombers, submarine-launched missiles, and intercontinental missiles. For the US it is essential to have a credible and reliable deterrent to adversaries, while at the same time guaranteeing security to its allies

Similarly Beijing, too considers the development of the sea-based leg of the nuclear triad as deterrent against any potential sea-based attack from US and its allies, besides considering it critical for the credibility of its nuclear doctrine of "no first use." Toward this end, it is moving steadily toward putting into operation its latest class of nuclear submarines. Clearly in the case of US and China, both are viewing each other with mistrust and suspicion, hence this nuclear race.

Still, it would do well for Beijing to acknowledge the new dangers that will accompany the latest nuclear-powered submarine capability it is building. Not the least being the sea-based nuclear race it will trigger in the region. Besides this, think of the scenario in the event of an accidental loss of one of its potential nuclear subs. Can China afford it materially, politically, psychologically or environmentally?

It’s critical that not just China but other nations in this mad race for all things nuclear develop a clear understanding of the challenges and potential dangers inherent within. The need of the hour is a certain amount of transparency, including when things go awry. This will help immensely in alleviating unnecessary tensions in the region and beyond.

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/13359057-china-to-deploy-submarinelaunched-nukes-within-2-years-us-draft-report


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#5 MoneypuckOverlord

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 09:23 PM

This type of thing is why Japan and Australia are joining forces to try to get a NATO style defense pact going with other Southeast Asian nations. China is getting too powerful. They are still communists. Everybody seems to forget that.


You have no clue what you are talking about. In your mind set it's "China is bad"
"China is enemy"
"China communist"
"China threat to the world"

Do some research on this country. You will soon realize what I am talking about, and any claims made by American media about China, are is most cases over exaggerated.

Edited by MoneypuckOverlord, 08 November 2012 - 09:42 PM.

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#6 DarthNinja

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 11:05 PM

This type of thing is why Japan and Australia are joining forces to try to get a NATO style defense pact going with other Southeast Asian nations. China is getting too powerful. They are still communists. Everybody seems to forget that.


Sounds like something from the 1980's!
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#7 Electro Rock

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 04:31 PM

China trying to beat the U.S. at seapower is like the U.S. trying to beat the Chinese at bad driving.
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#8 Sanford

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 04:59 PM

And what's wrong with that? Anything the US has other countries can't have?
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#9 Pouria

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 12:04 PM

And what's wrong with that? Anything the US has other countries can't have?


Well, Iran can't have it, it seems.
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#10 Dittohead

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 01:50 PM

Let every country have nukes and lets have it. Pouria wants Iran to have them so then we have to let Saudi have them Bahrain to have them Iraq to have them. heck Pouria would be over joyed to see America get nuked. probably throw a party.
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#11 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 03:54 PM

Let every country have nukes and lets have it. Pouria wants Iran to have them so then we have to let Saudi have them Bahrain to have them Iraq to have them. heck Pouria would be over joyed to see America get nuked. probably throw a party.

Perhaps the point is nobody should have them.
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#12 Gumballthechewy

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 04:43 PM

Maybe another super power is what the world needs to keep America in it's place.
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#13 Coda

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 04:49 PM

Maybe another super power is what the world needs to keep America in it's place.


The United States gets a lot of heat for its role as the policeman of the world, a lot of it deserved. However the alternatives, one version of which will eventually become real whenever the U.S. empire does fall, are probably not desirable.
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#14 Tortorella's Rant

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 05:06 PM

This type of thing is why Japan and Australia are joining forces to try to get a NATO style defense pact going with other Southeast Asian nations. China is getting too powerful. They are still communists. Everybody seems to forget that.


Didn't they acquire their first aircraft carrier a couple weeks ago? Some outdated Ukrainian piece of garbage that actually can't hold any planes. Hardly a threat militarily.
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#15 Lancaster

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 05:59 PM

Didn't they acquire their first aircraft carrier a couple weeks ago? Some outdated Ukrainian piece of garbage that actually can't hold any planes. Hardly a threat militarily.


Some USSR built vessel that was basically sold off for nothing. The Chinese basically retrofitted that and are using it as a template for future carriers.

The biggest threat to the US fleets aren't anything on the surface or below, it's missiles. Apparently the Chinese have missile technology far advanced compared to the US, making aircraft carriers as obsolete as battleships.
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#16 Electro Rock

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 06:43 PM

The U.S. had the technology to build terminally guided antiship ballistic missles since the '80s.

These probably aren't a big threat to an American carrier battle group unless you fired a lot of them and the carrier group was already under heavy attack by the kind of naval and air power that the Chinese don't have and won't have any time soon.


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#17 Ghostsof1915

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 06:55 PM

In this regard I'm so happy that Canada doesn't get mixed up with having nuclear weaponry. We don't need it.
What worries me that very irresponsible people think the only way to get respect is having a few nuclear missiles. It's just a damn recipe for disaster.

I still love this scene:


Edited by Ghostsof1915, 10 November 2012 - 06:58 PM.

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#18 Dittohead

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 09:29 AM

Maybe another super power is what the world needs to keep America in it's place.


Yes we need China to spread Communism because that works out so well for the citizens of those countries. We also need another Nuke buildup and arms race. good thinking that'll teach America.
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#19 Jaimito

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 09:37 AM

Some USSR built vessel that was basically sold off for nothing. The Chinese basically retrofitted that and are using it as a template for future carriers.

The biggest threat to the US fleets aren't anything on the surface or below, it's missiles. Apparently the Chinese have missile technology far advanced compared to the US, making aircraft carriers as obsolete as battleships.


yup, like bayonets and horses.

good for China. they need to beef up their military. so many foreigners have been invading China for last for last 2 centuries.

Keep the japanese and americans from invading.

china is rising, and that is good.
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#20 Gumballthechewy

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 12:00 PM

Yes we need China to spread Communism because that works out so well for the citizens of those countries. We also need another Nuke buildup and arms race. good thinking that'll teach America.


Don't be mad because R-Money lost. America will survive the tyrannical rule of that foreigner Obama.
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#21 6of1_halfdozenofother

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 01:02 PM

Why does it matter? The world's going to end next month anyways... :frantic: :frantic: :frantic: :frantic: :frantic:

:bigblush:
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