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hockeyville88

[Report] Canucks MIGHT retire Pavel Bure's #10

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So, by those standards, I'm expecting Fin's jersey retirement announcement soon?

Honestly, Bure was touted a superstar in the NHL for a reason....and you're right....it wasn't for any off ice contributions that he was making. Leaving only his brilliance on ice to capture that status, right? People can say what they want (although, none of us really has the full, behind the scenes story), but there is NO denying his talent. Anyone trying to do that just makes themself look foolish. He is truly deserving of the recognition he's currently getting. And to suggest he "liked" being a superstar completely goes against his actions. He hated the fishbowl and that was no secret. He also has moved off into obscurity vs sticking on the scene flogging himself, which also proves his desire for privacy and to simply lead his life. Nothing wrong with that.....

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The problem is, of course, the Buffalo Sabres aren't idiots. But let's put their collective hockey wisdom aside and trust in the wisdom of Baggins, right? And the wisdom regarding regarding the Lafontaine jersey retirement was what? 'It is a mystery to me' I see. Well, Sherlock, i think i've solved it for you already. See: Three major factors already listed above.

These criteria are very high indeed.

As for who 'saved the franchise', well it was the Arthur Griffiths, of course, who financed the building of GM Place. He took on more than he could handle, bringing in the NBA, etc., but nobody can deny that he was a hero for this town.

However, would GM Place have gotten the go-ahead without a superstar golden ticket onboard? It can be said that GM Place was the house that Bure built. Bure was the highlight reel. He was the reason people around the league went to Canuck road games. Hell, he was the Canucks for a significant period of the franchise's history.

Certainly he did as much as Naslund did. It's interesting that some label Naslund a 'team saviour' after the Messier era now when in his prime years he received much of the same criticism as Bure. Not a real leader? Vacant personality? etc. Remember that? When Naslund had his jersey hung up, that opened the door for Bure. Bure had done more for this team in a shorter amount of time than Naslund ever did. Certainly that should be respected and honoured with a jersey retirement.

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The way I see it, there were several reasons to retire the Smyl, Linden, and Naslunds numbers. Length of service, high level of play, community service, long term captains, franchise records. I've only seen one reason to retire Bures. High level of play. I just don't see that as enough of a reason for a guy that only played a little more than 400 games here. You see I'm not ignoring anything. I'm looking at the overall picture of Bure's time here. Other than talent, I don't see much on the checklist.

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I don't know how many times it has to be said Deb, NOBODY is questioning Bure's talent. The question is: is talent enough to retire his number. If your answer is yes then I'll make a case for Luongo.

Six seasons with the franchise

2 Vezina Nominations (2007, 2011)

1 Hart Nomination (2007)

1 Pearson nomination (2007)

1 Jennings Trophy Win (2011)

1 Mark Messier Leadership Award (2007)

That's more league wide elite level recognition as a Canuck than Bure had in his entire NHL career.

Canuck Goaltending Records:

Most career wins franchise

Most shutouts franchise

Most games played single season

Most wins single season

Most shutouts single season

Longest shoutout streak

Most playoff wins in one playoffs (tied Maclean)

Most shutout in one playoffs (tied Maclean)

Most shots faced in a playoff game

Most saves in a playoff game

My knock on Luongo: Without a Stanley Cup victory on his resume he wasn't here long enough. But based on the above, if Bure's number is retired, then Loungo's has to be as well.

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If Bure can make the HHoF, then the Sedins can too. They have just as many league trophys each as Bure and have made a Cup Final. They'll likely finish their NHL careers with over 1000 games played, close to a PPG pace, and they've done more for the community than Bure.

As for reasons for retiring their jerseys: They'll be the top 2 scorers in franchise history, they've both won the Art Ross, and have a Hart and Lindsay between them, they were the leaders of a Canucks team that made it to Game 7 of the Cup Final, all at a time where Crosby, Ovechkin, and Malkin are in their prime.

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But he makes it so easy to argue for Bure. Maybe he's actually a huge Bure fan and is playing devils advocate just to get everyone to realize how great a player Bure actually was?

Well played, Douche Baggins, well played

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I'm not buying what your selling. GM Place was in planning before Bure was even here. The endgame was the NBA franchise and Griffiths was rolling the dice on it. The attendance numbers show that Bure did not put butts in the seats here.

A simple question: Do you agree with the Avs retiring Bourques number?

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Hell, is the Naslund jersey retirement justified or not?

Remembering a lengthly debate about this as well, and in the end the Canucks chose the high road. Probably for the best.

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Here's a snippet from a whiney local blog about the Naslund jersey retirement, and how it 'lowers the bar.'

It is easy to argue that Naslund does not belong in the company of Smyl and Linden simply because as a leader he did not accomplish the post season success that they did. Nor did he embody their workman-like heart and soul; qualities that are typically more likely to win over the adoration of the fan base in this market.
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Here is the difference between the 94 players and the 2011 players.

IN 94, we made it to the final based on heart, determination and skill and came up short after leaving everything on the ice.

2011 made it on skill alone, then Luongo crap the bed in the biggest games of his career and the Sedins got thumped out, making the Canucks into the biggest joke in locker rooms across the NHL

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No heart? Did you see how beat up this team was? The 2011 team made to game 7 with a team of walking wounded. Good God people here see what they want. Game 7 versus the Rangers where was Bure's heart? That's way too simple. The real joke here is the fans.

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I kinda agree that the real joke is the fans.

A lot of people around here misremember '94 and think that we actually won.

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Here's a snippet from a whiney local blog about the Naslund jersey retirement, and how it 'lowers the bar.'

First off, what post-season success? Linden, Smyl, Naslund and Bure have one thing in common: No cups.

So enter the 'workman-like heart and soul.' ie. Things that loser franchise fans hang onto when they're skill-deprived. These intangibles are things that a lot of former Canucks have had, yet do not have their jersey's hung up. Are they really all that important compared to superstar-level skill? Or is that a good ol' Vancouver myth?

In either case, the Naslund retirement opens the door for a Bure retirement and everyone knew that when it happened.

imo A Bure retirement raises the bar, considering he is our only superstar. But you keep your workman-like 'heart and sole' players in your old treasure chest if you want. Perhaps Dan Cloutier should be honoured. He had heart. Jovo? Greg Adams? Cliffy? They all had heart too. Where exactly does the 'he had heart' argument end? It doesn't. Because it's a freakin' myth.

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Naslund, Luongo, and the Sedins all have one thing in common, the inability to get it done when it matters most.

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Naslund was a significant Canuck. So was Bure. But what's most significant about Naslund's jersey retirement as it pertains to this thread is that it has opened the door to Bure's jersey retirement, on account of the reasons already explained in why Naslund's apparently 'lowered the bar.' Was Naslund's jersey retirement here as automatic as you claim? Nope. On account of the lack of playoff success.

Again, Bure and Naslund have had similar impacts on this franchise. Bure just had a shorter amount of time to accomplish what he did. Yes, you keep beating this games played thing over our heads, and while it's important to hang around, it's also important to be great, to be successful, and to get the city behind you in celebration. Bure did all those things while he was here, moreso than Naslund in terms of playoff success especially.

Bure ticks off the playoff success checkmark, including franchise playoff run records for goals and points, while Naslund ticks off the longevity checkmark, including his regular season totals. The two cancel each other out.

Bure ticks off the hall of fame checkmark, while Naslund ticks off this 'who cares?' community service as captain checkmark.

The two jersey's can both go up.

Meanwhile, you've touched on this, but one fairly important aspect of Naslund's success here was Todd Bertuzzi. While Bure had (and needed) virtually no support to score all those goals, Naslund prospered greatly from Big Todd rumbling up the ice with him. Fyi, Bure being able to do it all on his own is generally regarded as a much better superstar-quality player than Naslund, the Sedins, who have each other or any other Canuck ever. Not many players in hockey history could do what Bure did. PS. It's why he's in the hall of fame and Naslund will not be. (Will the Sedins get into the hall? We'll see.)

In any event, if a jersey retirement for Lafontaine and Naslund was based on the 'checkmarks' acheived for their respective franchises, then Bure is equally qualified, if not moreso, on account of his playoff successes.

If the Naslund retired jersey opened the door for a Bure one, then the Bure hall-of-fame nod likely made it a done deal. And it's well-deserved. He's done enough for this franchise and city. He scored the greatest goal in franchise history, without which Linden's rise to any playoff success would not be at all possible. Sortof a comparison that you won't agree with, but us not honouring Bure is like Canada shunning Paul Henderson if he left for the states. Yeah i know, it's a stretch. But the point is that Bure is indeed worthy of the honour just as much as Naslund, certainly.

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Naslund was a significant Canuck. So was Bure. But what's most significant about Naslund's jersey retirement as it pertains to this thread is that it has opened the door to Bure's jersey retirement, on account of the reasons already explained in why Naslund's apparently 'lowered the bar.' Was Naslund's jersey retirement here as automatic as you claim? Nope. On account of the lack of playoff success.

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