Baggins Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 All the more reason to retire his number I would say. For a guy who wanted nothing to do with this team he sure did a damn good job here. Just imagine also if this team's management hadn't screwed him around from day 1. Things probably would've ended up a lot different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Pavel Bure wanted NOTHING more than to play in Vancouver. He could have easily stayed in Russia and re entered the draft later. Instead he gets MARRIED to some women he doesnt know all to get a US visa.............all so that Brian Burke can leave him stranded in California for 10 days. Then Quinn makes him pay his own Russian transfer cash. A move that is outright embarrassing for the Canucks organization. Bure does everything asked of him, including winning the Calder then scoring 60 goals twice. Quinn refuses to give him a raise until finally Bure asks to be traded out of there. Bure was USED and Abused by the canucks and yet he still played for us for many years until the team was so TRASHED he couldnt take it anymore. Linden was trashed, messier and keenan were running the team. Players were all sold off like Courtnall and Ronning. The guy couldnt take it anymore. Pavel Bure is generational talent we may never see again . He spent from age 20 to age 28 in a Canuck uniform. The best years of his professional life. If we had treated him like we treat the Sedins, he would have NEVER left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Well ian or whatever your name is, that is a wager you would lose. I wasn't a child watching Bure play but it did take a few years for the truth to come out regarding the circumstances of his arrival in Canada and his mishandling at the hands of the canucks. Facts are all out there now, if you care to recognize them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowest common denominator Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Actually I said he doesn't deserve it because he only played 428 games here. Which means the first two are true. Do try to keep up. I don't recall comparing Bure to Orr but I'll humor you. Orr won 2 Art Ross, 8 Norris, 3 Hart, 2 Conne Smyth, 1 Pearson and 2 Stanley Cups. Bure won none of those. So no, Bure truly isn't Bobby Orr. Feel better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowest common denominator Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 The name is Baggins. It's right there in the top left on every one of my posts. Ultimately I don't see how, nor why, he left as an issue regarding retiring his number. The only issue is the lack of games in combination with very little in major acheivements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowest common denominator Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 The Canucks management and officials from the Soviet Ice Hockey Federation met in late-October 1991 in a Detroit court, where they bartered for a cash settlement. After the Canucks offered $200,000, Bure stood up in the courtroom to offer an additional $50,000, bringing the total to $250,000. The Soviet officials accepted, and Canucks management paid the full $250,000.[3][25] Bure signed a four-year contract worth a reported $2.7 million with an $800,000 signing bonus soon thereafter.[8] The deal made Bure the Canucks' second highest paid player behind team captain Trevor Linden, who had just recently signed a four-year, $3.7 million contract. http://en.wikipedia....99.2C_p._18_7-0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowest common denominator Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Well Bure did love his paycheck and there was only one way to get a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowest common denominator Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 No, it's John Cerruti. Is that you, Casper Jr? And I do not care about your opinion on the matter either. See? We're establishing so much common ground here. And people are saying that you're a "douche". Well, I'd never say that. Yup. I have acknowledged the possibility of such in my posts. This must be an understanding or retention issue on your part. This does not change that, to my mind, Bure did not want to be here regardless of the situation with management. Hamhuis ain't bad. Sundin, albeit he was past his prime, liked the money enough to come here (sorta'). Willie Mitchell is still well thought of, by some. Yeah, there might be something to your perspective on this. On the other hand, have you looked at other, related issues which could affect a UFA choice on whether or not to sign here? I'm sure you have, but I'll note some of them anyways for the rest of the folks reading this: a.) Who would he be playing with, or behind? Vancouver has had a number of decent 1st lines or top d-men for the past while. Yeah, there wasn't a Suter or Weber in the bunch, but they weren't that bad, and just because a guy is a UFA doesn't mean he will automatically sign with the team of your choice. Shocking, isn't it? b.) What about cap hit? maybe the Canucks couldn't afford what the player was asking? (also, see d) c.) Travel schedule. This can be a real grind. d.) Maybe they didn't like some of the personalities on the team, or the team ownership/management. The coaching situation was a bit weird after Quinn left the job in '94. There was what, four coaches in five years? And some of those were with Keenan. Him being here probably caused a lot of players to think twice about signing here. Maybe some UFA's were turned off by the rather tight belts of the Canucks' ownership during these times. In any event, working on the assumption that Quinn was a bad, bad man, he hasn't been here since 1997. Are you suggesting that UFA's are not signing here because of Pat Quinn? Gee, Harold Ballard was a S.o.B. Does this mean that players don't want to sign with the Leafs, even though he's been dead for over 20 years? Yeah, you might be on to something. regards, G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Pavel Bure wanted NOTHING more than to play in Vancouver. He could have easily stayed in Russia and re entered the draft later. Instead he gets MARRIED to some women he doesnt know all to get a US visa.............all so that Brian Burke can leave him stranded in California for 10 days. Then Quinn makes him pay his own Russian transfer cash. A move that is outright embarrassing for the Canucks organization. Bure does everything asked of him, including winning the Calder then scoring 60 goals twice. Quinn refuses to give him a raise until finally Bure asks to be traded out of there. Bure was USED and Abused by the canucks and yet he still played for us for many years until the team was so TRASHED he couldnt take it anymore. Linden was trashed, messier and keenan were running the team. Players were all sold off like Courtnall and Ronning. The guy couldnt take it anymore. Pavel Bure is generational talent we may never see again . He spent from age 20 to age 28 in a Canuck uniform. The best years of his professional life. If we had treated him like we treat the Sedins, he would have NEVER left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drybone Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Not entirely accurate..... Shortly after arriving in North America from Moscow with his father and brother on September 6, 1991 (his mother Tatiana arrived two months later),[8] Bure married an American fashion model in a civil ceremony five days later. The model was later revealed to be Jayme Bohn. The marriage was allegedly set up by Bure's agents as a preventative measure against deportation in the event Bure and the Canucks could not come to terms with a contract. The Canucks management and officials from the Soviet Ice Hockey Federation met in late-October 1991 in a Detroit court, where they bartered for a cash settlement. After the Canucks offered $200,000, Bure stood up in the courtroom to offer an additional $50,000, bringing the total to $250,000. The Soviet officials accepted, and Canucks management paid the full $250,000.[3][25] Bure signed a four-year contract worth a reported $2.7 million with an $800,000 signing bonus soon thereafter.[8] The deal made Bure the Canucks' second highest paid player behind team captain Trevor Linden, who had just recently signed a four-year, $3.7 million contract. http://en.wikipedia....99.2C_p._18_7-0 He didn't get married to get into the US, he got married to stay in the US in case he couldn't come to contract terms withs the Canucks. At the time it was reported Bure "offered" to pay the $50k difference out of his $800k signing bonus because he wanted the contract and get playing. I'm not so sure Bure "wanted nothing more than to play in Vancouver". It was well known he hated the attention he got every time he went out here. In a recent interview Gino even mentioned that Bure loved the fact that he could go out in Florida and not be recognized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drybone Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I believe that Bure wanted nothing more than to play in the NHL. This is markedly different than him wanting to play in Vancouver. He would not be pining for the Canucks had another team thought to try and draft him before the Canucks got around to it (in the 6th round). Why did Bure jump to the NHL as soon as he did? Was it to fulfill his childhood dream of playing with the Canucks' crest on his chest, or was it so he could start collecting an NHL salary as soon as possible? Did Bure score lots of points, and did he have issues with Canucks' management? Yup. I've acknowledged these things before so you aren't telling me anything new or with which I disagree. I like Bure as a player, however I do not see him as a Canuck in the same sense that Smyl or Linden were Canucks (maybe can still be viewed as being Canucks). Bure was a guy who played well while he was here, and then he moved on. regards, G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowest common denominator Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I believe that Bure wanted nothing more than to play in the NHL. This is markedly different than him wanting to play in Vancouver. He would not be pining for the Canucks had another team thought to try and draft him before the Canucks got around to it (in the 6th round). Why did Bure jump to the NHL as soon as he did? Was it to fulfill his childhood dream of playing with the Canucks' crest on his chest, or was it so he could start collecting an NHL salary as soon as possible? regards, G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I don't follow the casper jr reference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Your post is well thought out and is not biased. I respect your opinion. It does not seem based on spite or hatred or seeing what we want to see. I do have to disagree however. I was at the first game Bure played in Vancouver against the Jets. The guy I saw was different as he was a young cocky russian, but there was no doubt in my mind he wanted to play here. As in play here just as much as anywhere else. He was not DYING to get out of here. Its my opinion that Pat Quinn, Mike keenan and to a smaller degree Brian Burke made that happen. In the end he was willing to go to Iraq to play hockey rather than stay in Vancouver. And I believe he should have his number retired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowest common denominator Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Look it up. From my perspective, you are speaking an opinion. Your opinion is hardly "truth". And while we're having this little chat, I should once again assert that I am not anti-Bure. He was a very talented and gifted player who got lots of points while he was here. The fact that he got all of those points while he was here was, in my opinion, secondary to Bure's main goal which was to play in the NHL. Anywhere in the NHL.1 So I'm supposed to start making up names or something? The Canucks (under Gillis) signed two of the most sought after UFA d-men in the last couple of years (assuming Suter and RFA Weber as perhaps the two most sought after). This was a pretty good result. The Canucks offered Mitchell a contract. LA offered more because they were more desperate for blue liners than were the Canucks. Mitchell chose to sign in LA. Mitchell managed to have a good season, and I'm happy for him. Deal with it. You have a very poor opinion of the players on this team.2 It makes me question if you are a Canucks supporter or merely a troll. And the best you can come up with is that Quinn mistreated Bure over a decade ago the a reason why UFA's don't want to come here?3 Some of the moves made by Gillis might not be popular. Not offering Mitchell the kind of deal he got from LA, or not offering Ehrhoff the sort of deal he got from Buffalo, were sound business decisions on his part. Your dietary wants and needs are not of any interest to me.4 regards, G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 What does it matter? History will show that he did indeed play for the canucks and gave every bit of his being in his time here. History will also show that Bure was the best hockey player to ever wear the canucks jersey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 There has been alot of Casper Jr's throughout history, surprisingly enough. I still don't get it. Maybe I'll file that one beside #19 in the wtf? folder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowest common denominator Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Indeed, what does it matter? It matters in that it is part of the process by which a guy gets his number retired. You are only looking at the glitter while I am looking at the entire package. And he was sought after by the NHL because he had the skills. Once again, this is not in doubt or dispute. Not hanging anything on anyone. What I do suggest is that Bure's primary motivations for jumping to the NHL from the Red Army team wasn't so he could play with the Canucks. He was interested in playing in the NHL (the best hockey league) and in getting an NHL salary. I do not knock him for this. What I do point out is that the guy was not (in my opinion) a "true Canuck" and that any team would have suited his purpose, whether we are talking about when he was first drafted or later in his career. regards, G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bure's triple deke Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Roy with Montreal.... 11 seasons Calder trophy 2 Conne Smythe Trophies 4 William Jennings Trophies 3 Vezina Trophies 2 Stanley Cups I'd say that although Roy had a bitter parting with Montreal he also has a considerable number of reasons to have his number retired. In both of the cup wins in Montreal he was the playoff MVP. Although Montreal retires numbers like a Pez dispenser I'd have a tough time arguing against Roys number going up. Actually, the only possible argument would be how he left. That's certainly offset by his accomplishments as a Hab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bure's triple deke Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Not entirely accurate..... Shortly after arriving in North America from Moscow with his father and brother on September 6, 1991 (his mother Tatiana arrived two months later),[8] Bure married an American fashion model in a civil ceremony five days later. The model was later revealed to be Jayme Bohn. The marriage was allegedly set up by Bure's agents as a preventative measure against deportation in the event Bure and the Canucks could not come to terms with a contract. The Canucks management and officials from the Soviet Ice Hockey Federation met in late-October 1991 in a Detroit court, where they bartered for a cash settlement. After the Canucks offered $200,000, Bure stood up in the courtroom to offer an additional $50,000, bringing the total to $250,000. The Soviet officials accepted, and Canucks management paid the full $250,000.[3][25] Bure signed a four-year contract worth a reported $2.7 million with an $800,000 signing bonus soon thereafter.[8] The deal made Bure the Canucks' second highest paid player behind team captain Trevor Linden, who had just recently signed a four-year, $3.7 million contract. http://en.wikipedia....99.2C_p._18_7-0 He didn't get married to get into the US, he got married to stay in the US in case he couldn't come to contract terms withs the Canucks. At the time it was reported Bure "offered" to pay the $50k difference out of his $800k signing bonus because he wanted the contract and get playing. I'm not so sure Bure "wanted nothing more than to play in Vancouver". It was well known he hated the attention he got every time he went out here. In a recent interview Gino even mentioned that Bure loved the fact that he could go out in Florida and not be recognized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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