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[Report] Canucks MIGHT retire Pavel Bure's #10


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#421 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 01:31 PM

Yes, Naslund's departure wasn't a highlight Canucks moment. However neither was Bure's.

Meh. Just supports the argument that both are worthy of jersey retirement if Naslund's already is.
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#422 Bite me Burr

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 01:55 PM

Yes, Naslund's departure wasn't a highlight Canucks moment. However neither was Bure's.

Meh. Just supports the argument that both are worthy of jersey retirement if Naslund's already is.


There was an epic 50 page thread on Naslund on here about his jersey retirement.
It would be worth the read to see how the Bure smearing is now toned down by some.

Bure deserves the recognition. His determination set him apart from say, Naslund.

Personally, I wouldn't want Bure in the rafters, but since Naslund is, well...

Edited by Jim Lahey, 01 December 2012 - 02:14 PM.

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#423 lowest common denominator

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:42 PM

Yes, Naslund's departure wasn't a highlight Canucks moment. However neither was Bure's.

Meh. Just supports the argument that both are worthy of jersey retirement if Naslund's already is.


If everything is based in relaton to Naslunds jersey being retired, then we better make some room because I can think of a dozen Canucks who are more deserving.

If games played is so important, 1200 games should be the minimum. Naslunds 800+ is pretty insignifigant when you take into account his lack of playoff success,lack of reg season success, pussyfoot style of play,he wasn't drafted here, he didn't finish his career here, I mean honestly, the most forgettable captain I can remember. Having his jersey in the rafters is an absolute joke, but it's only funny if you aren't a vancan fan, because it is an awesome display of pathetically lowered expectations. But hey, that's enough for vancouver fans right? second best, never better.

The bar should not be adjustable. I think it was just lowered momentarily for maintenance and Nazzy hopped over it while no-one was paying attention.

Edited by scottiecanuck, 06 December 2012 - 01:50 PM.

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#424 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:25 PM

Nah. Naslund's jersey is retirement-worthy. So is Bure's.
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#425 lowest common denominator

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:37 PM

Jersey retirement is supposed to be about the embodiement of what it means to be a Canuck.

A player who strives to be in top physical form.
A player who strives to be the Best at their position.
A player who will do what it takes to win, no matter the consequence to the body.
A player who stands up for himself when things get rough, no matter the size or reputation of your opponent..
A playeer with the desire to win.
A player who shows up every night and gives 110% for their team.
A player who shows up every night and gives 110% for the fans.
A player who shows courage and leadership in adverse circumstance.
A player who exemplifies skill at a level like no-one else.
A player who displays a joy and love for the game and for winning.

These are the things that I think best personifies a hockey player, and I wish more canucks would strive for these character qualities. These are the qualities that make champions. Not merely showing up and punching a clock for 10 years.

Bure checks all of these boxes, Naslund not a one.
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#426 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:05 PM

Meh. Naslund's jersey is retired, so that's that. What's important is that Bure's time here is equally honourable.
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#427 Baggins

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 03:04 AM

Jersey retirement is supposed to be about the embodiement of what it means to be a Canuck.

A player who strives to be in top physical form.
A player who strives to be the Best at their position.
A player who will do what it takes to win, no matter the consequence to the body.
A player who stands up for himself when things get rough, no matter the size or reputation of your opponent..
A playeer with the desire to win.
A player who shows up every night and gives 110% for their team.
A player who shows up every night and gives 110% for the fans.
A player who shows courage and leadership in adverse circumstance.
A player who exemplifies skill at a level like no-one else.
A player who displays a joy and love for the game and for winning.

These are the things that I think best personifies a hockey player, and I wish more canucks would strive for these character qualities. These are the qualities that make champions. Not merely showing up and punching a clock for 10 years.

Bure checks all of these boxes, Naslund not a one.


So a player like Gretzky wouldn't have his number retired here.

No scoring titles/NHL records makes Bure's skill level like nobody else?
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#428 Baggins

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 06:51 AM

Emasculating the sport and using debating skillz on the internet to project Naslund as more than Bure is ok if you are admitting that THE WAY YOU PLAY THE GAME is no longer a factor in summing up a body of work and career.
Go on, look up and remember his tax deductable charity work and his classy reputation and his so-so point totals when you see his number. Just tell it straight to your grandkid one day that Naslund also quit the Canucks; that he was a UFA NTC captain who bailed and left us dry, like Bure, the bad guy.


Who said Naslund was "more" than Bure?

Naslund left as a UFA without an offer made from the Canucks. Bure refused to play until he was traded. One is more honorable than the other. That's telling it straight. Not that either situation really factors into this discussion at all. Completely irrelevant to retiring a number as far as I'm concerned.

What does "how you played" have to do with anything? Did Gretzky and Messier play the same way? Did Trottier and Bossy play the same way? In both cases one is was grittier (or chippier) and more physical than the other. I like physical skilled players as well, but I don't see less physical skilled players as unworthy.

My primary reason for the no to Bure is the number: 428. He just didn't play enough games here. I haven't argued his talent nor have I had to resort to mud slinging or demeaning him. That ball is in the pro Bure court. It seems you guys can only justify retiring Bure's number by attempting to demean those who have their numbers retired here. Or by customizing a repetitive list suited to glorifying Bure's manhood. How about sticking to facts instead.

Btw, Naslund's "so-so" numbers put him second in league scoring twice. Fourth was Bure's highest finish. Smyl and Linden never once cracked the top ten in league scoring.
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#429 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 09:16 AM

Y'mean 488.

lol
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#430 Baggins

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 09:21 AM

Y'mean 488.

lol


:frantic:

:lol:
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#431 lowest common denominator

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 09:28 AM

Btw, Naslund's "so-so" numbers put him second in league scoring twice. Fourth was Bure's highest finish. Smyl and Linden never once cracked the top ten in league scoring.


2nd best two times? Intriguing, tell us more.

derp derpa derp derp


The way a player plays is everything if you are a fan of the game called hockey. I repeat, it is EVERYTHING.
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#432 lowest common denominator

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 09:41 AM

So a player like Gretzky wouldn't have his number retired here.

No scoring titles/NHL records makes Bure's skill level like nobody else?


A player like Gretzky probably wouldn't have his number retired here because of the small but vocal few, like yourself, who seem to accept second best as great and run true superstars out of town.

I knew you had never watched Bure play from the first post of yours that I read, this just proves it. Your google machine doesn't have all the answers, you gotta get out in the real world and take some lumps, kid.
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#433 M A K A V E L I 96

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:45 AM

Y'mean 488.

lol


Why are you counting playoff games? Everyone knows that they don't matter. The Canucks are back to back NHL champions. ::D
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#434 lowest common denominator

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 06:09 PM

Baggins, I apologize for calling you Douche Baggins.

It's just too damned juicy :bigblush:
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#435 Baggins

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 07:47 PM

A player like Gretzky probably wouldn't have his number retired here because of the small but vocal few, like yourself, who seem to accept second best as great and run true superstars out of town.

I knew you had never watched Bure play from the first post of yours that I read, this just proves it. Your google machine doesn't have all the answers, you gotta get out in the real world and take some lumps, kid.


Pray tell how I "run superstars out of town". I really want to know how I manage that one.

It's by YOUR standard that The Great One doesn't get his number here. He doesn't fit your profile.


Oh I saw Bure play. I saw Gretzky go after Snepsts. I saw Bobby Orr score his cup winning goal and go flying through the air. I saw Canada win the Summit Series. I was at the Canucks first home game. I even saw Dave Keon play. I'd guess my children (who both have children) are older than you. But yet again, none of that really matters. Try sticking to the facts. Weak attempts at belittling Naslund or myself doesn't change the number of games Bure played here in Vancouver. Which I don't think is enough to deserve the teams highest honor. Ring of Honor yes. Number retirement no.
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#436 Bite me Burr

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 10:05 PM

Who said Naslund was "more" than Bure?

Naslund left as a UFA without an offer made from the Canucks. That's telling it straight. Not that either situation really factors into this discussion at all. Completely irrelevant to retiring a number as far as I'm concerned.

What does "how you played" have to do with anything? Did Gretzky and Messier play the same way? Did Trottier and Bossy play the same way? In both cases one is was grittier (or chippier) and more physical than the other. I like physical skilled players as well, but I don't see less physical skilled players as unworthy.

My primary reason for the no to Bure is the number: 428. He just didn't play enough games here. I haven't argued his talent nor have I had to resort to mud slinging or demeaning him. That ball is in the pro Bure court. It seems you guys can only justify retiring Bure's number by attempting to demean those who have their numbers retired here. Or by customizing a repetitive list suited to glorifying Bure's manhood. How about sticking to facts instead.

Btw, Naslund's "so-so" numbers put him second in league scoring twice. Fourth was Bure's highest finish. Smyl and Linden never once cracked the top ten in league scoring.


Whats this about Naslund, the NTC unwaiving UFA leaving because he had no offer from the Canucks? Didn't he sign on July 1? Perhaps I don't see it as clean as you.Also, when you mention those stats, like Naslund was some kind of offesnsive machine, just how many 80+ pont seasons did he have... as a one dimensional offensive player? 4? I understand your claims here, but 4 80+ point seasons should not qualify a jersey in the rafters if you didnt also bleed. Because when Naslund wasnt scoring he wasnt out there being a Steamer or a Linden.Bure was raped by this team, if he had a NTC, Im sure he would have waived it, unlike our Captain.
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#437 Baggins

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:08 PM

Whats this about Naslund, the NTC unwaiving UFA leaving because he had no offer from the Canucks? Didn't he sign on July 1? Perhaps I don't see it as clean as you.Also, when you mention those stats, like Naslund was some kind of offesnsive machine, just how many 80+ pont seasons did he have... as a one dimensional offensive player? 4? I understand your claims here, but 4 80+ point seasons should not qualify a jersey in the rafters if you didnt also bleed. Because when Naslund wasnt scoring he wasnt out there being a Steamer or a Linden.Bure was raped by this team, if he had a NTC, Im sure he would have waived it, unlike our Captain.

Any evidence at all Naslund refused to waive his NTC or was ever even asked to?

Naslund was in the top 5 in the scoring race as a Canuck more times than Bure was he not?

The reason Naslunds number is in the rafters is 800+ games, longest serving captain, heavy community involvement, and a boatload of team records when he retired. It was a no-brainer retiring his number.

But this thread is about Bure not Naslund. So go ahead and convince me 400+ games is enough to retire a number. That's the real stumbling block, not Bure's skill.
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#438 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:20 PM

Wondering what Naslund being top-5 in NHL scoring in a season has to do with Canucks-related accomplishments.

If we're putting league-related accomplishments on the table, then Bure's HOF nod trumps anything Naslund has done.

But if we're talking Canucks-related accomplishments, then Bure has done enough to be honoured by the Canucks as much as Naslund.


Hey, meanwhile there's no hockey. This could be a long thread.
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#439 lowest common denominator

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:28 PM

So go ahead and convince me 400+ games is enough to retire a number. That's the real stumbling block, not Bure's skill.


It really is more of a 500- than a 400+

The you think, hmmm... if Bure wasn't so royally phukked by the Nuxmanagement in every way from the very beginning, maybe he would have played his entire career in Vancouver.

And when you start to compare Bure to Naslund (which wouldn't have to be done if #19 wasn't in the rafters(I know it is painful for some)), you come to some realizations

Quantity over quality


Good enough rather than best


B vs A+


Pretty good vs stand up out of your seat cuz that was awesome










Bures 488 gp >>>>>>>>Naslund 1000gp

Edited by scottiecanuck, 08 December 2012 - 12:07 AM.

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#440 CookieCrumbs

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 03:23 AM

scottiecanuck wins.

full stop.
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#441 Baggins

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 08:52 AM

It really is more of a 500- than a 400+

The you think, hmmm... if Bure wasn't so royally phukked by the Nuxmanagement in every way from the very beginning, maybe he would have played his entire career in Vancouver.

And when you start to compare Bure to Naslund (which wouldn't have to be done if #19 wasn't in the rafters(I know it is painful for some)), you come to some realizations

Quantity over quality


Good enough rather than best


B vs A+


Pretty good vs stand up out of your seat cuz that was awesome










Bures 488 gp >>>>>>>>Naslund 1000gp


If the reason he left was because he was screwed here then please explain why he sat out and demanded a trade after EVERYBODY that screwed him was gone. I don't buy the reason.

You don't retire a number for what could have been, you do it for what actually was.


Making the Naslund/Bure comparison shouldn't Tanti's number have been retired due to Smyl's? He was more skilled, scored more goals blah, blah. Quality over quantity. The truth is Naslund stacks up quite well to the other two numbers up there.
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#442 Baggins

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 09:40 AM

Wondering what Naslund being top-5 in NHL scoring in a season has to do with Canucks-related accomplishments.

If we're putting league-related accomplishments on the table, then Bure's HOF nod trumps anything Naslund has done.

But if we're talking Canucks-related accomplishments, then Bure has done enough to be honoured by the Canucks as much as Naslund.


Hey, meanwhile there's no hockey. This could be a long thread.


We've already covered (repeatedly) that HHoF is a career accomplishment while number retirement is a franchise honor.

When comparing players skill level in different era's you have to compare how they stacked up against their respective peers. In 92/93 there were 14 players with 50 or more goals. In the 2000/01 season there were none. Did players suddenly become less skilled or was the game simply different? More defensive, goaltending changed, refs letting far more go, equipment changes. It was called the dead puck era for a reason after all. So to judge a players skill you comparehow they stacked up against their peers of their time. Naslund finished top five in the scoring race more times than Bure. Which means Naslund was one of the most skilled players in the league in his time. Yet you guys seem to try to portray him as average. He wasn't average. It's like saying Bure was an average goal scorer in 92/93 because Selanne scored 76 goals to Bure's 60. Or that Bure was an average goal scorer because Gretzky scored 92 goals in 81/82. You don't score 60 goals unless you're a very skilled player. Just as you don't finish 2nd in league scoring twice unless you're a very skilled player. During their time as a Canuck Naslund stacked up better against his peers than Bure did. There's nothing average about that.

Take a look at Lindens numbers. He never once came close to a sniff at top 10 in the league let alone top 5. He was a player of average skills in comparison to Naslund and Bure. The same could be said of Smyl.
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#443 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 10:16 AM

Still, you're making a pro-skill argument for Naslund and then go on to say that Bure's superior skill doesn't matter. Straw man argument.

Anyway, two major factors in Naslund's offense is 1: The powerplay and 2: Todd Bertuzzi. Without whom, Naslund has no room. Their best season together was powerplay-driven. Hello, Bert push-off play?

Bure did it all himself. That seperates star and superstar status. Bure was our only one. That's why he's in the hall and Naslund will not be, despite a shorter career.

Won't repeat all the other stuff that makes Bure as worthy as Naslund for jersey retirement.
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#444 lowest common denominator

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 10:19 AM

If the reason he left was because he was screwed here then please explain why he sat out and demanded a trade after EVERYBODY that screwed him was gone. I don't buy the reason. Also, the teammates he had come to know and trust as friends and confidants were all gone and we were left with a hodgepodge pile of crap lead by Messier the Puke and Keenan. +The Van media had mostly turned on him, in their wholly unproffesional approach, so he was left to fend for himself. Who knows, Bure had had enough crap after giving his all to the team and city and wanted out? You would really have to ask him, but judging from what I can see, he was well within his rights.

You don't retire a number for what could have been, you do it for what actually was.
What it actually was was a hhof career, elite play for his entire time in the NHL, helped to save the franchise, brought a whole new generation of canuck fans and hockey fans in general. Too bad he only played 500- games, kinda like Orr#4.


Making the Naslund/Bure comparison shouldn't Tanti's number have been retired due to Smyl's? He was more skilled, scored more goals blah, blah. Quality over quantity. The truth is Naslund stacks up quite well to the other two numbers up there.12 & 16 are up there for the way they played and the fact they gave it their all, bringing us as close as we could possibly be to greatness and both left everything on the ice. Character, toughness, desire to win and compete, heart, soul, these are qualities of a Canuck Leader. Naslund had none of these qualities. He did have some better than average numbers for a few seasons, that is all.


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#445 lowest common denominator

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 10:24 AM

scottiecanuck wins.

full stop.


Haha thanks cooke Im not trying to win against Baggins though. Just trying to give support to Bure because he was the greatest canucks player of all time and his name has been dragged through the mud in Vancity for too long. It is disgusting and it needs to stop.
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#446 canucklehead44

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 11:07 AM

Naslund is the longest serving captain and still has the team record for goals and assists. Not to mention he finished near the top 5 in the scoring race three times. Naslund played in a VERY low scoring era.

03-04: 4th
02-03: 2nd
01-02: 2nd

I think Bure had a lot more talent than Naslund and I would take a Bure in his prime over a Naslund in his prime but it is hard to argue that Bure had a better tenure here. If he was on the Canucks as long as Naslund he probably would have had his jersey retired already.
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#447 lowest common denominator

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 11:22 AM

Naslund is the longest serving captain and still has the team record for goals and assists. Not to mention he finished near the top 5 in the scoring race three times. Naslund played in a VERY low scoring era.

03-04: 4th
02-03: 2nd
01-02: 2nd

I think Bure had a lot more talent than Naslund and I would take a Bure in his prime over a Naslund in his prime but it is hard to argue that Bure had a better tenure here. If he was on the Canucks as long as Naslund he probably would have had his jersey retired already.


Naslund was second best a few times is nice but actually horse crap when speaking in terms of jersey retirement. 800+ games is nothing special. 1200 games? Now you have some basis for glorification if that is your only laurel to rest upon.

Again, you have to look at the reasons why Bure played 500- games here, then you will see what a travesty it was for canucks fans.

Edited by scottiecanuck, 08 December 2012 - 11:23 AM.

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#448 Drybone

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 11:49 AM

Baggins is butt hurt because everyone gave him a hard time about retiring Naslunds jersey so now hes got to dish it out for Bure fans.
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#449 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 12:00 PM

Jersey retirement is supposed to be about the embodiement of what it means to be a Canuck.

A player who strives to be in top physical form.
A player who strives to be the Best at their position.
A player who will do what it takes to win, no matter the consequence to the body.
A player who stands up for himself when things get rough, no matter the size or reputation of your opponent..
A playeer with the desire to win.
A player who shows up every night and gives 110% for their team.
A player who shows up every night and gives 110% for the fans.
A player who shows courage and leadership in adverse circumstance.
A player who exemplifies skill at a level like no-one else.
A player who displays a joy and love for the game and for winning.

These are the things that I think best personifies a hockey player, and I wish more canucks would strive for these character qualities. These are the qualities that make champions. Not merely showing up and punching a clock for 10 years.

Bure checks all of these boxes, Naslund not a one.

^^^^^
This









is really really stupid.


You don't need to **** talk one guy to glorify another. Naslund was/is worthy of having his jersey retired. If not for all the bull**** surrounding Bure there would be no question about his being retired as well.

Edited by EmployeeoftheMonth, 08 December 2012 - 12:04 PM.

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#450 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 12:01 PM

Baggins is butt hurt because everyone gave him a hard time about retiring Naslunds jersey so now hes got to dish it out for Bure fans.


lol...irony
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