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Israel takes out top Hamas commander after missiles launched from Gaza


Special Ed

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Even if what you're saying is true, how does that affect Israel's right to self-defence? Let's pretend in this day in age, it's acceptable to send a suicide bomber into a restaurant or wedding. I'd also like for you to point to the specifics facts where Israelis did things like that.

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This is post no.24 on this thread

The Dier Yassin Massacre

Early in the morning of Friday, April 9, 1948, commandos of the Irgun, headed by Menachem Begin, and the Stern Gang attacked Deir Yassin, a village with about 750 Palestinian residents. It was several weeks before the end of the British Mandate. The village lay outside of the area that the United Nations recommended be included in a future Jewish State. Deir Yassin had a peaceful reputation and was even said by a Jewish newspaper to have driven out some Arab militants. But it was located on high ground in the corridor between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem and one plan, kept secret until years afterwards, called for it to be destroyed and the residents evacuated to make way for a small airfield that would supply the beleaguered Jewish residents of Jerusalem.

By noon over 100 people, half of them women and children, had been systematically murdered. Four commandos died at the hands of resisting Palestinians using old Mausers and muskets. Twenty-five male villagers were loaded into trucks, paraded through the Zakhron Yosef quarter in Jerusalem, and then taken to a stone quarry along the road between Givat Shaul and Deir Yassin and shot to death. The remaining residents were driven to Arab East Jerusalem.

That evening the Irgunists and the Sternists escorted a party of foreign correspondents to a house at Givat Shaul, a nearby Jewish settlement founded in 1906. Over tea and cookies they amplified the details of the operation and justified it, saying Deir Yassin had become a concentration point for Arabs, including Syrians and Iraqis, planning to attack the western suburbs of Jerusalem. They said that 25 members of the Haganah militia had reinforced the attack and claimed that an Arabic-speaking Jew had warned the villagers over a loudspeaker from an armored car. This was duly reported in The New York Times on April 10.

A final body count of 254 was reported by The New York Times on April 13, a day after they were finally buried. By then the leaders of the Haganah had distanced themselves from having participated in the attack and issued a statement denouncing the dissidents of Irgun and the Stern Gang, just as they had after the attack on the King David Hotel in July 1946. A 1987 study undertaken by Birzeit University's Center for Research and Documentation of Palestinian Society found "the numbers of those killed does not exceed 120".

The Haganah leaders admitted that the massacre "disgraced the cause of Jewish fighters and dishonored Jewish arms and the Jewish flag." They played down the fact that their militia had reinforced the terrorists' attack, even though they did not participate in the barbarism and looting during the subsequent "mopping up" operations.

They also played down the fact that, in Begin's words, "Deir Yassin was captured with the knowledge of the Haganah and with the approval of its commander" as a part of its "plan for establishing an airfield."

Ben Gurion even sent an apology to King Abdullah of Trans-Jordan. But this horrific act served the future State of Israel well. According to Begin:

  • Arabs throughout the country, induced to believe wild tales of "Irgun butchery," were seized with limitless panic and started to flee for their lives. This mass flight soon developed into a maddened, uncontrollable stampede. The political and economic significance of this development can hardly be overestimated.

Of about 144 houses, 10 were dynamited. The cemetery was later bulldozed and, like hundreds of other Palestinian villages to follow, Deir Yassin was wiped off the map. By September, Orthodox Jewish immigrants from Poland, Rumania, and Slovakia were settled there over the objections of Martin Buber, Cecil Roth and other Jewish leaders, who believed that the site of the massacre should be left uninhabited. The center of the village was renamed Givat Shaul Bet. As Jerusalem expanded, the land of Deir Yassin became part of the city and is now known simply as the area between Givat Shaul and the settlement of Har Nof on the western slopes of the mountain.

The massacre of Palestinians at Deir Yassin is one of the most significant events in 20th-century Palestinian and Israeli history. This is not because of its size or its brutality, but because it stands as the starkest early warning of a calculated depopulation of over 400 Arab villages and cities and the expulsion of over 700,000 Palestinian inhabitants to make room for survivors of the Holocaust and other Jews from the rest of the world

I am not going to continue this circle of hatred , that seems to mirror the conflict between these 2 countries , i have had my say and i do not want to antagonise you .

I really hope these 2 warring people can find some common ground , so that they can live in peace

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Looks like things are heating up:

http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/hamas-rockets-hit-jerusalem-israel-calls-reserves/article4102786.ece

Hamas rockets hit Jerusalem, Israel calls reserves

Hamas rocket squads aimed at Jerusalem for the first time on Friday, along with commercial hub Tel Aviv, showing off their expanded reach as Israeli airstrikes pounded the Palestinian territory for a third day. Israel called up 16,000 reservists, moving a step closer to a possible ground offensive in the Palestinian territory.

Air raid sirens sounded in the two cities which unlike population centres in Israel’s south had not been exposed to rocket fire from Hamas-ruled Gaza before the current round of cross-border fighting. No injuries were reported, but Hamas’ latest attempts to hit Israel’s heartland could push Israel closer to sending ground troops into Gaza.

Over the past three days, Israel has relentlessly pounded suspected rocket launching sites and other Hamas targets in Gaza with scores of airstrikes, while Hamas has fired more than 450 rockets toward Israel. The overall death toll rose to 30; 27 Palestinians and three Israelis.

The Islamic militant group was badly bruised during its last full-fledged confrontation with Israel four years ago that ended with an informal truce, although rocket fire and Israeli airstrikes on militant operations continued sporadically. The Islamic militant group appeared better prepared this time with a more powerful arsenal.

Just a few years ago, Palestinian rockets were limited to crude, homemade devices manufactured in Gaza. But in recent years, Hamas and other armed groups have smuggled in sophisticated, longer-range rockets from Iran and Libya, which has been flush with weapons since Muammar Qadhafi was ousted last year.

Most of the rockets do not have guided systems, limiting their accuracy, though Israeli officials believe the militants may have a small number of guided missiles that have not yet been deployed.

The air raid sirens sounded in Jerusalem after the start of the Jewish Sabbath in the holy city, claimed by both Israel and the Palestinians as a capital and located about 75 kilometres (47 miles) from Gaza. Israeli police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said the rocket landed in an open area southeast of the city.

Earlier Friday, Gaza militants fired toward Tel Aviv and an explosion was heard in the city, but no injuries were reported. Hamas had first targeted Tel Aviv on Thursday, an unprecedented achievement for the group.

“We are sending a short and simple message. There is no security for any Zionist on any single inch of Palestine and we plan more surprises,” Abu Obeida, spokesman for the Hamas militant wing, said of the rockets aimed at Israel’s two main cities.

A senior Hamas official said that Egypt, which often mediates between Hamas and Israel, was working behind the scenes to arrange a truce.

The official, speaking on condition of anonymity because he was discussing a sensitive diplomatic matter, said Hamas was demanding an end to the offensive, limits on Israeli ground activities along the border, a permanent halt in assassinations of Hamas leaders and an end to Israel’s blockade of Gaza.

“These conditions must be honoured and sponsored by a third party,” he said. “We will stop all armed activities out of Gaza in return.”

Israel is unlikely to accept some of the demands, particularly a permanent halt to military operations against Hamas.

An Israeli official refused to say whether Egypt or any other country was involved in ceasefire efforts but said Israel would not settle for anything less than a complete and longstanding halt to the rocket fire. “We’re not interested in a timeout that returns us to square one,” he said, speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not allowed to discuss the matter with the press.

Despite the Gaza fighting, Mr. Abbas said he was determined to seek U.N. recognition of a Palestinian state in the West Bank, Gaza and east Jerusalem on Nov. 29. Such recognition of Palestine as a non-member observer state would be a largely symbolic step, but Israel and the U.S. oppose the idea, saying it’s an attempt to bypass negotiations.

In Israel, military spokeswoman Lt. Col. Avital Leibovich said no decision has been made yet on a ground offensive but all options are on the table. Dozens of armoured vehicles have been moved to Israel’s border with Gaza since fighting intensified Wednesday, following Israel’s assassination of the Hamas military chief.

She said 16,000 reserve soldiers were called up Friday, and the army could draft an additional 14,000 soldiers. She did not say where the reservists were being deployed.

Defence Minister Ehud Barak asked the Cabinet at a special meeting Friday night for authorization to activate additional soldiers.

The violence has widened the instability gripping the region, straining already frayed Israel-Egypt relations. The Islamist government in Cairo, like Hamas linked to the region-wide Muslim Brotherhood, recalled its ambassador in protest and dispatched Prime Minister Hesham Kandil to show solidarity with Gaza.

Kandil called for an end to the offensive while touring Gaza City’s Shifa Hospital with Ismail Haniyeh, the Gaza prime minister who was making his first public appearance since the fighting began.

In one chaotic moment, a man rushed toward the two leaders, shouting as he held up the body of a 4-year-old boy. The two prime ministers cradled the lifeless boy who Hamas said was killed in an Israeli airstrike a claim Israel denied.

Fighting to hold back tears, Mr. Kandil told reporters that the Israeli operation must end.

“What I saw today in the hospital, the wounded and the martyrs, the boy ... whose blood is still on my hands and clothes, is something that we cannot keep silent about,” he said.

Israel said it halted its incessant air attacks on militant targets in Gaza during Kandil’s visit, though Hamas security claimed three airstrikes hit the territory during that period.

Militants, meanwhile, fired off more than 60 rockets after Kandil arrived in Gaza. The pace of cross-border fighting quickly resumed after the Egyptian leader’s departure.

In Egypt’s two largest cities, Cairo and Alexandria, thousands protested the Israeli offensive Friday in marches organized by Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi’s Muslim Brotherhood. Protesters waved Palestinian flags and chanted slogans against Israel. In Cairo’s Tahrir Square, a few hundred protesters burned an Israeli flag.

Prominent Brotherhood figures took part, many brandishing the checkered Palestinian scarf, or keffiyeh, during the marches.

Small anti-Israeli demonstrations occurred in east Jerusalem and the West Bank. Police dispersed the crowds with tear gas and stun grenades. And in Iran, a close Hamas ally, thousands of people took to the streets in the capital Tehran. The demonstrators carried banners denouncing Israel. They chanted “Death to the U.S.” and “Death to Israel.”

In Europe, reaction was mixed. Germany held Hamas responsible and urged Egypt to pressure the Islamists to halt the violence, while Britain cautioned Israel against launching a ground offensive.

“When Israel has entered into ground invasions in other conflicts that is when they have lost a good deal of international sympathy and support, and of course civilian casualties become much harder to avoid in that situation,” Foreign Minister William Hague told reporters in London.

U.N. chief Ban Ki-moon announced plans to visit the Mideast region soon in a bid to reduce tensions, but his spokesman Martin Nesirky refused to discuss specific sites, countries or dates for the visit.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu appeared determined to move forward. “The Israeli military “continues to strike hard against Hamas and is prepared to expand its action into Gaza,” he said.

At least 27 Palestinians, including 14 militants and six children, as well as three Israelis have been killed in the fighting a relatively low toll compared to the beginning of Israel’s previous major offensive against Hamas four years ago. Netanyahu has said the air force is trying to strike surgically and avoid harm to civilians.

The 4-year-old boy whose body had been handed to Kandil and Haniyeh was killed along with a young man earlier Friday when an Israeli missile struck close to their homes in the town of Jebaliya near Gaza City, relatives said.

The area near the boy’s home showed signs that a projectile had exploded there, with shrapnel marks in the walls of surrounding homes and shattered kitchen windows. But neighbours said security officials quickly took what remained of the projectile, making it impossible to verify who fired it.

Mr. Kandil’s visit came after a night of fierce exchanges, with dozens of rocket barrages setting off sirens throughout southern Israel, an area with a population of about 1 million.

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Listen taxi , i am sick of your lies .

I have offered the olive branch , i have tried to make peace with you , but you are so consumed by your hatred you see only what you want to see .

Show me where i said that i condone or justify terrorist actions by hamas , or anyone else for that matter .

I abhor terrrorism , i have pointed out historical facts , that contributed to this conflict ,as pointed out , these facts are easily verifiable , but you know that by trying to confuse and cloud the issue some people will not listen to the facts .

I PITY YOU , living in your world of hatred ,

I say again , SHALOM YEHUDI , and i hope you find some happiness in your life .

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Man are you messed up. Your Zionist education is leaking through at the seams. Could you be anymore obtuse about the lies and atrocities perpetrated by the Zionists in the name of their god? The proof is there for all to see yet you keep falling back on tired old zionist propaganda. I would post links but the truth is obviously not your forte,so I'm not going to waste my time.:(

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Man are you messed up. Your Zionist education is leaking through at the seams. Could you be anymore obtuse about the lies and atrocities perpetrated by the Zionists in the name of their god? The proof is there for all to see yet you keep falling back on tired old zionist propaganda. I would post links but the truth is obviously not your forte,so I'm not going to waste my time. :(

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Ok first off, Ratio hasn't explicitly taken a side, so the frustration directed to him is unwarranted. If you want to go after an Arab leaning liberal, go after me. Provide all the proverbs and anecdotes you want, fact of the matter is Israel was the initiator, and that is never justifiable.

In the mean time, I hope we can discuss the events that are occurring as impartial as possible. The entire thing is ugly from both sides, let's report, not argue.

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As well I believe that the only answer strategically to the rocket launches is a ground invasion. With Hamas fighting within cities and beside the civilian population what do you expect will happen? Of course there will be Palestinian civilian casualties in high numbers. Maybe you can ask Hamas nicely to fight outside the cities and clear their areas of civilians. Good luck with that. In fact Hamas will purposely use civilian buildings as fighting positions KNOWING that Israel wants to avoid civilian casualties...What does that tell you?

Civilian casualties are good for Hamas they will video tape every one. When if they really cared Hamas could easily evacuate fighting areas of civilians or choose to fight in different locations themselves. From what I understand the Palestinian militias have been upgraded with more powerful weapons from Iran. That will make a ground offensive more difficult and cause more civilian casualties when eventually the Israeli will have to use artillery to clear areas.

Maybe to be 'fair' Israel should just do what has been done to them. Suicide on tourist buses, assassinate the Palestinian Olympic team and launch rockets randomly towards Gaza. Then the Palestinians would really have something to complain about.

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As well I believe that the only answer strategically to the rocket launches is a ground invasion. With Hamas fighting within cities and beside the civilian population what do you expect will happen? Of course there will be Palestinian civilian casualties in high numbers. Maybe you can ask Hamas nicely to fight outside the cities and clear their areas of civilians. Good luck with that. In fact Hamas will purposely use civilian buildings as fighting positions KNOWING that Israel wants to avoid civilian casualties...What does that tell you?

Civilian casualties are good for Hamas they will video tape every one. When if they really cared Hamas could easily evacuate fighting areas of civilians or choose to fight in different locations themselves. From what I understand the Palestinian militias have been upgraded with more powerful weapons from Iran. That will make a ground offensive more difficult and cause more civilian casualties when eventually the Israeli will have to use artillery to clear areas.

Maybe to be 'fair' Israel should just do what has been done to them. Suicide on tourist buses, assassinate the Palestinian Olympic team and launch rockets randomly towards Gaza. Then the Palestinians would really have something to complain about.

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Yet it's perfectly alright for others to conveniently neglect to balance their anti-Israel education and material to acknowledge the atrocities perpetrated by others against Israel. Alrighty then.........the proof is there for all to see yet folks keep falling back on tired old anti-Israel propaganda..........

Baruch dayan emet....Shalom alecha ......

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"All is fair in love and war" .. rocks against tanks is fair? .. maybe Hamas should assassinate the Israeli Defense Minister? .. I am sure they would if he was not hiding in a bunker somewhere .. this ludicrous situation will not stop until the World cares enough to get involved ..

The Arab League needs to take Hamas and the other factions "in-hand", and the US of A needs to put Bebe and the Israeli's back on their leash .. "muzzle dem dogs" ..

This is the 21st Century is it not??

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Rocks against tanks? You do realize that Hamas has used IEDs and missiles to destroy many Israeli tanks in previous fighting right? Maybe they should assassinate the Israeli DM? You don't think Hamas wouldn't love to lol? Usually these wars are only resolved when one side wins and crushes the other, forcing it to submit to terms. The world prevents an Israeli victory which could easily be had and allows Hamas to get stronger. Making the conflict drag on longer and the list of civilian casualties on both sides will only grow.

The Arab league can't control the militias who operate independently and are not subject to agreements. That's why you have so much conflict in the Islamic world mainly because of radical ideologies and militias. Very difficult to live with or around a combination of those two elements. It's the 21st century only for some of us.

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I would nuke the whole region and start over .. but pragmatism aside, I guess if Iran can get a bomb and defeat Israel it will be OK? .. as long as there is a definitive "winner"?? .. the Muddle East .. just another of "Gods" blunders ..

EDit: I agree with you .. it is just so frustrating .. I think of the innocents on both sides and weep inside ..

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Well Israel has nukes too so it would be very foolish for Iran to consider such a thing. If anything Iran would smuggle a nuke to militias in order to get the dirty work done. And that's why Israel is trying to stop them. Israel has nukes but hasn't used any. How long do you think it would take one of the Palestinian militias before they used a nuke that was smuggled to them? Hmmmmm?

In reply to your edit- wars are a part of humans. Even to create what North America is today the most unimaginable horrors were set upon the natives. It's not a part of our history I'm proud of but it happened. Now we deal with it and the Europeans settlers should all have a profound respect for native Americans. Who were subject to massacres, forced onto reserves and given small pox(in some cases British officers gifted natives blankets infected with small pox). That's how brutal it was and the natives were no angels either. They regularly massacred each others villages. Human nature.

This conflict between Israel and Palestine seems to me similar to 'settlers VRS natives' scenario with a dash of religious fundamentalism plus interference of other nations. It will not be easily solved and I believe will only be solved after a large war + decisive victory.

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