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Israel takes out top Hamas commander after missiles launched from Gaza


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#301 Edler0023

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 07:39 PM

No: Israel has the most technically advanced and efficient military in the world. Believe it or not the fact that only 100 Palestinians have been killed so far this week is a sign of severely limited engagement. Keep in mind Gaza is a tiny strip of land with 1.7 million people in it...



*only 100 have died* - quite an achievement eh
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#302 Tearloch7

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 08:07 PM

If you heard that then chances are Hamas did too. The perfect place to store weapons. When you can guarantee 100% those sites are clear of any terror weapons such as unguided missiles let me know. Until then too bad Hamas will use any place they can to hide their munitions safely. This is war not a picnic. Innocent people including journalists could become casualties. Perhaps they should avoid the area or ask Hamas to stop launching their indiscriminate rockets. I'm sure Hamas will be all ears(cut off their ears).


NO WAY .. all you pseudo-Israeli folks just KNOW they store the weapons with the women and children .. what an f'ing joke ..
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"To Thine Own Self Be True"

 

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#303 Tearloch7

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 08:09 PM

Since "might seems to mean right" to so damn many people here, if all the Arab nations rose up and wiped Israel off the face of the earth before the US could intervene, then that would be alright, no? .. just according to your "logic"

Edited by Tearloch7, 19 November 2012 - 08:10 PM.

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"To Thine Own Self Be True"

 

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#304 Lancaster

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 08:14 PM

I am saying that the rest of the world thinks that how the israeli's have treated the palestinians is wrong, and you trying to discredit that is a bunch of crap .


Context is key.

The "rest of the world" happens to be a lot of dictators, extreme theocracies, blatant human rights abusers, etc..... their opinions don't really mean much.

When Israel gets more condemnation than countries like North Korea, Sudan, or even China, something is obviously broken.
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#305 Special Ed

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:12 PM

Let me throw a senario out there:

Right now you are in a room full of Hamas militants or Israeli soldiers. While both are being bombarded. Then you have to choose one of two options.

1) you are in a room full of Israeli soldiers. You tell them; 'they should leave Israel and hope they are all killed by Hamas militants'.

2) you are in a room full of Hamas Islamic militants. You tell them; 'Palestine should not exist and hope they are all killed by Israeli soldiers'.

Now... Think about these two senarios carefully and honestly tell me you feel more confident in accepting senario #2.


No takes on option #2? Is there one single person here who would feel 'safe' openly defying Hamas militants over Israeli soldiers? My opinion is the most you get from option #1 is the butt end of a rifle in your face. Option #2 to me is certain death, just a matter how how.

What my point here is some people are quick to demonize the Israelis. But if you had to choose which side to put yourself at mercy to it would most definitely not be Hamas. Why is that? Because even though Hamas would be the first to embrace you as a supporter and put you through the propaganda wheel. Hamas would also be the first to slit your throat when you openly defy them. Kind of similar to the world war near the end when all the remaining Germans ran to the allies instead of being captured by the Russians.

Edited by Special Ed, 19 November 2012 - 09:23 PM.

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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#306 taxi

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:22 PM

You are eithernot reading , or not comprehending what i have posted on this terrorist action

The Dier Yassin Massacre

Early in the morning of Friday, April 9, 1948, commandos of the Irgun, headed by Menachem Begin, and the Stern Gang attacked Deir Yassin, a village with about 750 Palestinian residents. It was several weeks before the end of the British Mandate. The village lay outside of the area that the United Nations recommended be included in a future Jewish State. Deir Yassin had a peaceful reputation and was even said by a Jewish newspaper to have driven out some Arab militants. But it was located on high ground in the corridor between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem and one plan, kept secret until years afterwards, called for it to be destroyed and the residents evacuated to make way for a small airfield that would supply the beleaguered Jewish residents of Jerusalem.

By noon over 100 people, half of them women and children, had been systematically murdered. Four commandos died at the hands of resisting Palestinians using old Mausers and muskets. Twenty-five male villagers were loaded into trucks, paraded through the Zakhron Yosef quarter in Jerusalem, and then taken to a stone quarry along the road between Givat Shaul and Deir Yassin and shot to death. The remaining residents were driven to Arab East Jerusalem.

That evening the Irgunists and the Sternists escorted a party of foreign correspondents to a house at Givat Shaul, a nearby Jewish settlement founded in 1906. Over tea and cookies they amplified the details of the operation and justified it, saying Deir Yassin had become a concentration point for Arabs, including Syrians and Iraqis, planning to attack the western suburbs of Jerusalem. They said that 25 members of the Haganah militia had reinforced the attack and claimed that an Arabic-speaking Jew had warned the villagers over a loudspeaker from an armored car. This was duly reported in The New York Times on April 10.

A final body count of 254 was reported by The New York Times on April 13, a day after they were finally buried. By then the leaders of the Haganah had distanced themselves from having participated in the attack and issued a statement denouncing the dissidents of Irgun and the Stern Gang, just as they had after the attack on the King David Hotel in July 1946. A 1987 study undertaken by Birzeit University's Center for Research and Documentation of Palestinian Society found "the numbers of those killed does not exceed 120".

The Haganah leaders admitted that the massacre "disgraced the cause of Jewish fighters and dishonored Jewish arms and the Jewish flag." They played down the fact that their militia had reinforced the terrorists' attack, even though they did not participate in the barbarism and looting during the subsequent "mopping up" operations.

They also played down the fact that, in Begin's words, "Deir Yassin was captured with the knowledge of the Haganah and with the approval of its commander" as a part of its "plan for establishing an airfield."

Ben Gurion even sent an apology to King Abdullah of Trans-Jordan. But this horrific act served the future State of Israel well. According to Begin:


Arabs throughout the country, induced to believe wild tales of "Irgun butchery," were seized with limitless panic and started to flee for their lives. This mass flight soon developed into a maddened, uncontrollable stampede. The political and economic significance of this development can hardly be overestimated.
Of about 144 houses, 10 were dynamited. The cemetery was later bulldozed and, like hundreds of other Palestinian villages to follow, Deir Yassin was wiped off the map. By September, Orthodox Jewish immigrants from Poland, Rumania, and Slovakia were settled there over the objections of Martin Buber, Cecil Roth and other Jewish leaders, who believed that the site of the massacre should be left uninhabited. The center of the village was renamed Givat Shaul Bet. As Jerusalem expanded, the land of Deir Yassin became part of the city and is now known simply as the area between Givat Shaul and the settlement of Har Nof on the western slopes of the mountain.

The massacre of Palestinians at Deir Yassin is one of the most significant events in 20th-century Palestinian and Israeli history. This is not because of its size or its brutality, but because it stands as the starkest early warning of a calculated depopulation of over 400 Arab villages and cities and the expulsion of over 700,000 Palestinian inhabitants to make room for survivors of the Holocaust and other Jews from the rest of the world

so are you now going to tell me that that jewish newspaper lied ?

And the maasarce of innocent people in their homes is not an act of war , it is an act of TERRORISM


No it's you who isn't listening and choosing to be very selective with your facts. What went on at Dier Yassin was horrible, but you should also look at it in context. It happened in a state of total war (look that term up) when Israel was invaded by many arab armies. Arab armies that had sworn to kill every jew and throw them into the sea. By that point riots had already broken out all over the Arab world, which involved killing hundreds of Jews at a time.There is no evidence to show the massacre was planned. The act was exploited by both sides afterwards. Both used it to create fear and hantred towards the Jews. The Arabs used it as rallying cry. The Jews used it to cause fear. Also, if you look through 60 years of warfare just about every nation has committed a similar act. By your logic, Germans should be able to burn down allied town because the allies burnt down Dresden 60 years ago. And some lame Op-Ed piece written 50 years after the fact proves absolutely nothing. Also, your position of: "I'm not saying terrorist acts are justified, they're just not wrong because Israel deserves it, but I still condone all violence"...is really tiring.
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#307 taxi

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:28 PM


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#308 Tearloch7

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:48 PM

Propaganda is a double edged sword don't you think?? .. as I said, the Jewish people learned a lot from Herr Goebbels ..
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"To Thine Own Self Be True"

 

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#309 taxi

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:55 PM

Propaganda is a double edged sword don't you think?? .. as I said, the Jewish people learned a lot from Herr Goebbels ..


Please stop the comparisons to nazis.  They aren't useful in any way.  Facts and perspectives you disagree with, are not propaganda. I am, however, going to post this video from a different perspective:

Edited by taxi, 19 November 2012 - 10:18 PM.

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#310 Special Ed

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:03 PM

Please stop the comparisons to nazis. They aren't useful in any way. Facts and perspectives you disagree with, are not propaganda. I am, however, going to post this video from a different perspective:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb6IiSUxpgw


Any comparisons of Israelis to nazis is a blatant flaw of logic. I wonder what those people would think if the Israelis sent millions of Palestinians to the gas chambers. If the Israelis were treating the Palestinians as the nazis treated jews. Well then that would really be something to complain about. If there were even any Palestinians left.
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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#311 inane

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:12 PM

Except that I actually have posted previously on topic in this thread.

:rolleyes:



What Tearloch7 said.........


Oh I didn't realize there was an entry requirement for people to post, my bad. I know this is serious stuff, no place for anything other than some serious discussion and serious wikipedia quoting.

My bad former mod.
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#312 Tearloch7

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:14 PM

I will make whatever comparisons I wish to make, Mr. Ed .. discount or ignore them as you will .. glorifying acts of war, and "spinning facts" to discredit those you wish to displace, was perfected in the late 1930's .. those lessons were not lost on the peoples they were perpetrated against .. just as the Palestinian "terrorists" learned from the brave "Jewish Freedom Fighters", who were also called "terrorists" at the time ..

T'is said that one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter .. until the hypocrisy of your collective "spin" is admitted, I and others will speak out in favor of De-escalation of this muddle ..

"When a man has got nothing, he has nothing to lose" .. too many Palestinians have more to die for than to live for .. much like many Jewish people must have felt after a few months in an "internment camp" ..

Such a sad, sad state of affairs .. history and "God" will judge accordingly ..

Edited by Tearloch7, 19 November 2012 - 10:15 PM.

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"To Thine Own Self Be True"

 

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#313 taxi

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:16 PM

Any comparisons of Israelis to nazis is a blatant flaw of logic. I wonder what those people would think if the Israelis sent millions of Palestinians to the gas chambers. If the Israelis were treating the Palestinians as the nazis treated jews. Well then that would really be something to complain about. If there were even any Palestinians left.


If the Israelis treated the Palestinians like the Nazis treated the Jews, there would be no conflict, because there would be no Palestinians. Instead the Palestinians are one of the fastest growing populations in the world. They also have a higher life expectancy than their arab contemporaries outside of Israel.
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#314 Special Ed

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:21 PM

I will make whatever comparisons I wish to make, Mr. Ed .. discount or ignore them as you will .. glorifying acts of war, and "spinning facts" to discredit those you wish to displace, was perfected in the late 1930's .. those lessons were not lost on the peoples they were perpetrated against .. just as the Palestinian "terrorists" learned from the brave "Jewish Freedom Fighters", who were also called "terrorists" at the time ..

T'is said that one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter .. until the hypocrisy of your collective "spin" is admitted, I and others will speak out in favor of De-escalation of this muddle ..

"When a man has got nothing, he has nothing to lose" .. too many Palestinians have more to die for than to live for .. much like many Jewish people must have felt after a few months in an "internment camp" ..

Such a sad, sad state of affairs .. history and "God" will judge accordingly ..


People have been displace all over the world and throughout history. Now you want to replace a stable well developed democracy for a group who's leaders can't even control various militias? I haven't even heard one reasonable suggestion of how that could be accomplished. The Israelis are just suppose to 'magically' find a new home so the 'peaceful' Palestinians can live in harmony... And then you woke up.
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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#315 DonLever

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:21 PM

"Not too surprising given the propaganda given out by Hollywood with the hundeds if not thousands of movies/books/tv shows about the Holocaust. "

Wow, any respect I ever had for you as a poster has completely dissipated. I am at a complete and utter loss of words here for the most part..at least ones that are permissible to be posted here. You actually believe this *%#!....

I'm flabbergasted and that doesn't happen often. Like there's some grand conspiracy in Hollywood, amongst book publishers or television companies to make movies/television programs/publish books....oh, I'm sorry, 'propaganda'.......to make all these programs/books/movies etc about the Holocaust just to shore up support for Israel.

JFC, just when you think you've heard/read the max on CDC ignorance and stupidity.


Well, how many major Hollywood films have taken up the Palestinean side of the issue? Name one!

I am not denying the Holocaust. It happened.

But why does the Jews have to keeping bring out the Holocaust memorials and museums when EVERONE suffered in WWII. Are they so special? 20 to 30 Million Russian killed. Millions killed by the Japanese. The Rape of Nanking, the medical experiments done by the Japanese to the Chinese.
Or the millions killed by the Kmer Rouge in Cambodia. Where are all the memorials in North America to those horrific acts?
How about the genocide of the Armenians in WWI by the Turks? Where are all the films about it made by Hollywood?

Am I the first or the only one to say the the state of Israel was built because people sympathized with the suffering of the Jews throughout history? No, many other people besides me have said the same thing. The Jews have been using the victimization argument to support the State of Israel for decades. Even they themselves say they are surrounded by enemies. That however is a big lie because they have the most pwerful military in the Middle East. They are the bullies, not the other countries.

You call me ignorant and stupid. Why do you have to resort to such language? I never call anyone names just because I disagree with. It just reflects badly on you. Read this article. He explains it better than me.

http://www.gtr5.com/...srael_lobby.htm

Read "Western Guilt" And "Anti-Arab Racism".

Also, the link between Jews and Hollywood has been well documented. I did not not make it up as part of a "conspiracy" theory. PBS aired a documentary on it a few years ago and there was a prize winning book about it.
http://en.wikipedia....ented_Hollywood

Edited by DonLever, 19 November 2012 - 10:56 PM.

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#316 Special Ed

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:26 PM

If the Israelis treated the Palestinians like the Nazis treated the Jews, there would be no conflict, because there would be no Palestinians. Instead the Palestinians are one of the fastest growing populations in the world. They also have a higher life expectancy than their arab contemporaries outside of Israel.


I wonder if the nazis would varify a hostile target is clear of civilians before firing...

http://www.liveleak....=612_1353364533

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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#317 Tearloch7

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:27 PM

People have been displace all over the world and throughout history. Now you want to replace a stable well developed democracy for a group who's leaders can't even control various militias? I haven't even heard one reasonable suggestion of how that could be accomplished. The Israelis are just suppose to 'magically' find a new home so the 'peaceful' Palestinians can live in harmony... And then you woke up.


You are confusing me with others who have spoken out .. I have offered only one pragmatic solution .. total nuclear devastation and start over .. reduce all the "Tribes" to rubble and start over when Jesus returns .. simple and effective .. something both Germanic and Jewish peoples could admire ..
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"To Thine Own Self Be True"

 

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#318 Tearloch7

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:28 PM

I wonder if the nazis would varify a hostile target is clear of civilians before firing...

http://www.liveleak....=612_1353364533


How effective have they been .. 100 civilians dead? .. maybe the US should ship em some new guidance systems? ..
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"To Thine Own Self Be True"

 

"Always tell the Truth. That way, you don’t have to remember what you said"  ~ Mark Twain ~
 


#319 Special Ed

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:34 PM

How effective have they been .. 100 civilians dead? .. maybe the US should ship em some new guidance systems? ..


What do you think happened with that 100 civilians? That Israel was like 'ok guys lets bomb some random persons house'. Would you prefer if Israel switched to launching hundreds of random rockets at gaza? Then it would be fair right?

Or wait you want Israel to throw in a missile defense into the deal too right? Maybe pass them a nuke while we're at it. I'm sure the Palestinians could control themselves and refrain from detonating a nuclear device as Israel has.....




Not.

Edited by Special Ed, 19 November 2012 - 10:36 PM.

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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#320 taxi

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:34 PM

How effective have they been .. 100 civilians dead? .. maybe the US should ship em some new guidance systems? ..

it's 100 total dead, which includes military targets.
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#321 Tearloch7

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:38 PM


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"To Thine Own Self Be True"

 

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#322 DonLever

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:49 PM

Sorry, double post.

Edited by DonLever, 19 November 2012 - 10:52 PM.

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#323 mau5trap

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:53 PM

Posted Image
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Posted Image


#324 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:57 PM

Oh I didn't realize there was an entry requirement for people to post, my bad. I know this is serious stuff, no place for anything other than some serious discussion and serious wikipedia quoting.

My bad former mod.



Now you're just being deliberately obtuse. Not that that is any surprise. The point was made about how you could have just bypassed a thread you had no interest in posting in to discuss the topic except to come into a thread just to bitch about how the thread discussion just goes 'round and 'round and about some of the posters in here. You alluded to the fact passively aggressively to get a shot in that I had done the same. You were wrong. Yes, your bad, thank you for admitting it.


*wonders what my being a former mod has to do with anything*



You are confusing me with others who have spoken out .. I have offered only one pragmatic solution .. total nuclear devastation and start over .. reduce all the "Tribes" to rubble and start over when Jesus returns .. simple and effective .. something both Germanic and Jewish peoples could admire ..


One can't help but wonder if in fact this would be the only way peace could ever come to this area of the world and a resolution could be reached. Which is a sad, sad realization to come to.

Edited by Bertuzzi Babe, 19 November 2012 - 11:06 PM.

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"Sursumredditio" non usquam in hac mea loquantur!



Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem.....



#325 inane

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 11:02 PM

Now you're just being deliberately obtuse. Not that that is any surprise. The point was made about how you could have just bypassed a thread you had no interest in posting in to discuss the topic except to come into a thread just to bitch about how the thread discussion just goes 'round and 'round and about some of the posters in here. You alluded to the fact passively aggressively to get a shot in that I had done the same. You were wrong. Yes, your bad, thank you for admitting it.


My original post had nothing to do with you, stop being so self-centered. And good job dragging this along on the pretense that I'm doing just that and that's bad --hypocritical and self-centered look ugly on you.
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#326 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 11:05 PM

My original post had nothing to do with you, stop being so self-centered. And good job dragging this along on the pretense that I'm doing just that and that's bad --hypocritical and self-centered look ugly on you.


Wasn't even talking only about your first post any longer. geez, catch up, will ya? :lol:

Edited by Bertuzzi Babe, 19 November 2012 - 11:11 PM.

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"Sursumredditio" non usquam in hac mea loquantur!



Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem.....



#327 Special Ed

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 11:18 PM

New clip of Israeli Air Force doing their best to avoid civilians:

http://www.liveleak....=931_1353386508

It seems in at least in this instance and in a previous video I posted a page back, we have evidence of Israel trying to avoid civilians. If they don't release these videos haters complain about civilian casualties, but call this propaganda. It doesn't matter what Israel does some people are just unreasonable. Interestingly enough those targets in the videos is Hamas placing weapons and firing from... Surprise! Civilian areas. It's like they actually want Israel to hit civilians or something...

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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#328 لني

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 11:28 PM

Well, how many major Hollywood films have taken up the Palestinean side of the issue? Name one!

I am not denying the Holocaust. It happened.

But why does the Jews have to keeping bring out the Holocaust memorials and museums when EVERONE suffered in WWII. Are they so special? 20 to 30 Million Russian killed. Millions killed by the Japanese. The Rape of Nanking, the medical experiments done by the Japanese to the Chinese.
Or the millions killed by the Kmer Rouge in Cambodia. Where are all the memorials in North America to those horrific acts?
How about the genocide of the Armenians in WWI by the Turks? Where are all the films about it made by Hollywood?

Am I the first or the only one to say the the state of Israel was built because people sympathized with the suffering of the Jews throughout history? No, many other people besides me have said the same thing. The Jews have been using the victimization argument to support the State of Israel for decades. Even they themselves say they are surrounded by enemies. That however is a big lie because they have the most pwerful military in the Middle East. They are the bullies, not the other countries.

You call me ignorant and stupid. Read this article. He explains it better than me.

http://www.gtr5.com/...srael_lobby.htm

Read "Western Guilt" And "Anti-Arab"


^^^Such a gross post.


Armenian genocide:

The armenians have a massive lobby in the US. In fact one of the heros of Nagorno Karabakh war is Monte Malkonian, an american.

Steven Speilberg is apparently looking at doing a film on the genocide.

Another film called The Armenian Genocide was done.

Also The Armenians: A Story of Survival.

Syl Stallone also looked at doing an adaptation of The Forty Days of Musa Dagh which is about the genocide.

Armenian Genocide Museum of America - Washington, DC

Armenian Genocide Martyrs Monument - Montebello, CA, USA

Armenian Heritage Park - Boston, MA, USA

Armenian Martyra Memorial - Providence, RI, USA

Armenian Genocide Monument - San Fran, CA, USA

Armenian Genocide Memorial - Philly, PA, USA

Russia:


Not quite sure what you are even referring to in your reference to russia. WW2? The purges?

A large majority were killed by russians themselves. Not to mention the lack of openess to tell the stories under the iron curtain.


Cambodian atrocities:

Cambodian American Heritage Museum and Killing Fields Memorial. Chicago, IL, USA




Erna and Authur Salm Holocaust and Genocide Memorial Grove (dedicated to all acts) - Sonoma State University

As an example.


Not surprisingly you are all over the map with your attempts to compare.

What makes the holocaust significant was not only the numbers but the extent that was taken both system-wise and technology-wise to exterminate a group of people.

Not to mention the process taken to get to the final solution from Hitlers diatribes regarding old tried and true anti-semitic rants, to the enactment of laws that segregated jews of german citizenship from other citizens (marriage laws etc), to the expulsion and transfers, to the use as forced labour, to imprisonment and starvation, to ultimately the elimination through efficient death factories.

Nazis did not want to enslave the jews they wanted to exterminate them. Period.

Also the full horrors of the holocaust came at a time when pretty much the entire planets focus was on one region and one subject: the defeat of nazi germany, in europe.

I say this as someone who has been to Auchwitz, Bosnia, Cambodia, Armenia and Nagorno Karabakh, Uganda, Borneo and visited the various "monuments" to these various atrocities.

Edited by لني, 19 November 2012 - 11:34 PM.

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It is not my intent to get in circular arguments with anybody. The reason i have avoided saying anything specific is because i know you or someone else will attempt to find an alternate explanation to my points which i intern will have to defend. I see no point in getting involved with the circular argument that is already well under way in this thread. I simply intended to voice my opinion on the subject. In the end either you accept the possibility of corruption and conspiracy or you don't.

Also i find your comments to be very childish. Does taking what i say out of context, paraphrasing and misquoting it make you feel good about yourself? Grow up.


Logic at its finest.

#329 Tearloch7

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 11:34 PM

What else do the Palestinians have but "civilian" areas .. they have been compressed into a small area and are over-crowded almost to ghetto levels .. and, as a point of fact ,, just because someone disagrees with you does not make them a "hater" .. if that was the case, you would be a "hater" .. both sides are wrong in this .. some folks will accept the reality of that fact .. others wear blinders that allow them to overlook the needless suffering that is taking place ..

I hope when you who glorify this conflict get to lay your heads down upon your pillow this night to sleep, and close your eyes and ears .. I hope you do not hear the echo of a child crying or replay images of a child suffering .. imagine the long term effects on these children on both sides, and thank your "God" it is not you or your child ..

Edited by Tearloch7, 19 November 2012 - 11:36 PM.

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"To Thine Own Self Be True"

 

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#330 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 11:34 PM

Well, how many major Hollywood films have taken up the Palestinean side of the issue? Name one!

I am not denying the Holocaust. It happened.

But why does the Jews have to keeping bring out the Holocaust memorials and museums when EVERONE suffered in WWII. Are they so special? 20 to 30 Million Russian killed. Millions killed by the Japanese. The Rape of Nanking, the medical experiments done by the Japanese to the Chinese.
Or the millions killed by the Kmer Rouge in Cambodia. Where are all the memorials in North America to those horrific acts?
How about the genocide of the Armenians in WWI by the Turks? Where are all the films about it made by Hollywood?


Am I the first or the only one to say the the state of Israel was built because people sympathized with the suffering of the Jews throughout history? No, many other people besides me have said the same thing. The Jews have been using the victimization argument to support the State of Israel for decades. Even they themselves say they are surrounded by enemies. That however is a big lie because they have the most pwerful military in the Middle East. They are the bullies, not the other countries.

You call me ignorant and stupid. Why do you have to resort to such language? I never call anyone names just because I disagree with. It just reflects badly on you. Read this article. He explains it better than me.

http://www.gtr5.com/...srael_lobby.htm

Read "Western Guilt" And "Anti-Arab Racism".

Also, the link between Jews and Hollywood has been well documented. I did not not make it up as part of a "conspiracy" theory. PBS aired a documentary on it a few years ago and there was a prize winning book about it.
http://en.wikipedia....ented_Hollywood


I responded to the comment you made about Hollywood having made all these movies, publishing houses have published all these books, television has made all these programs/shows about the Holocaust purely as propaganda to further the cause of Israel. Which is offensive to me, to many others who are not Jewish and to those of Jewish faith.

Here's a clue.....not every reference to the Holocaust or every memorial has been designed or created by Jews. I hate to tell you what your post smacks of........

Why shouldn't those of Jewish faith all over the world keep the Holocaust and what happened to them in the forefront of their consciousness? Or world consciousness? What happened was horrible, tragic and should never be allowed to happen again. Every other ethnicity, country etc.has been free to do the same. Some have, some haven't. But you're going to blame those of Jewish faith for refusing to allow this deliberate attempt at eradicating them as a people disappear from the public view? Okaaaay........

Oh, and you can have the most powerful military in the world and still have enemies. Having the one doesn't preclude the other. Bullies? Please don't make me laugh.


And I did not specifically call you stupid....or ignorant. The sentiment of every Hollywood film, every book, every television program about the Holocaust being propaganda as you expressed it in your post is that which I find ignorant, stupid and repugnant.


Damn, Wickipedia being cited as a reliable source again.... :sadno:


For the record: This is not the first time I've been involved in a thread like this and been one of a very few who have posted in support of Israel. There have been several very long threads that went back and forth over a period of time of which I was a part. Frankly, I'm not doing it again for a third time. It's pointless and only the more ridiculous of posts will get a response. I researched and cited facts and figures til I was blue in the face but the bottom line is, those with closed minds will never accept that there might be a different side of this that deserves respect and support as well. The funny thing is, when I first posted in threads like this, I was originally a supporter. on the Palestine side. Then I educated myself, read a lot of books by proponents of both sides of this conflict. I did not arrive at my decision of which side to support without gaining knowledge and learning about both sides.

I'm done.


Baruch dayan emet....Shalom alecha ......

Edited by Bertuzzi Babe, 19 November 2012 - 11:46 PM.

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