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Israel takes out top Hamas commander after missiles launched from Gaza


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#451 Tearloch7

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:34 PM

........... Never refuse to do a kindness unless the act would work great injury to yourself, and never refuse to take a drink- under any circumstances .......... Mark Twain
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"To Thine Own Self Be True"

#452 taxi

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:41 PM

...........  Never refuse to do a kindness unless the act would work great injury to yourself, and never refuse to take a drink- under any circumstances .......... Mark Twain


Hmm...Mark Twain...huh?He has some other interesting quotes, that might apply to this debate:"“….. A desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds… a silent mournful expanse…. a desolation…. we never saw a human being on the whole route…. hardly a tree or shrub anywhere. Even the olive tree and the cactus, those fast friends of a worthless soil, had almost deserted the country.”-Mark Twain 1867 in reference to what is not Israel
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#453 ThaBestPlaceOnEarth

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:51 PM

Israel really comes out of this quite well because it's now made clear to everyone that Cairo and the Muslim Brotherhood are holding the leash of HAMAS and are ultimately responsible for Gaza. Next time they start firing rockets, Israel doesn't have to go to Gaza, they can go to Cairo, and that's something they couldn't necessarily do before this latest round of conflict. It puts Israel in a much stronger position diplomatically. As for HAMAS, they come out having shown they can still tangle with Israel and live to tell the tale, and Iran's shown that they can hit Israel from the south as well as the north. The big losers are the Egyptians, they take on a lot more risk and responsibility for very little gain, I think Morsi is showing his inexperience and that of his government.
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Ceterum censeo Chicaginem delendam esse


#454 Tearloch7

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:21 PM

Israel really comes out of this quite well because it's now made clear to everyone that Cairo and the Muslim Brotherhood are holding the leash of HAMAS and are ultimately responsible for Gaza. Next time they start firing rockets, Israel doesn't have to go to Gaza, they can go to Cairo, and that's something they couldn't necessarily do before this latest round of conflict. It puts Israel in a much stronger position diplomatically. As for HAMAS, they come out having shown they can still tangle with Israel and live to tell the tale, and Iran's shown that they can hit Israel from the south as well as the north. The big losers are the Egyptians, they take on a lot more risk and responsibility for very little gain, I think Morsi is showing his inexperience and that of his government.


Any guesses or speculation as to who stands to make the greatest gain from this "incident"? .. there is some very delicate "diplomacy" being played out here .. we live in historic times .. often it is so easy to get wrapped up in the minutiae, and miss the broad strokes history uses when true change takes place ..

When combined with climate changes, this earth and its societies are undergoing very strenuous tests of of collective "will" .. it is happening sooner than I, for one, thought ..

"Before I had chance in another war, the desire to kill people to whom I had not been introduced had passed away" ..MT .
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"To Thine Own Self Be True"

#455 Primus099

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:33 PM

It seems to me the only winners in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict will be the arms dealers.
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#456 Tearloch7

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:38 PM

It seems to me the only winners in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict will be the arms dealers.


"Brought to you thru the combined efforts of the Military Industrial Complex and your local Mortuary" ..
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"To Thine Own Self Be True"

#457 Tearloch7

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:47 PM

"Man is the only animal that deals in that atrocity of atrocities, War. He is the only one that gathers his brethren about him and goes forth in cold blood and calm pulse to exterminate his kind. He is the only animal that for sordid wages will march out...and help to slaughter strangers of his own species who have done him no harm and with whom he has no quarrel. ..And in the intervals between campaigns he washes the blood off his hands and works for "the universal brotherhood of man"--with his mouth" .. MT
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"To Thine Own Self Be True"

#458 Lancaster

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 12:05 AM

Syria only oppresses its own citizens .. Israel is an equal-opportunity oppressor ..


Save for the fact that the West Bank has had no parts in this conflict. Reason why? They've recognized the right of Israel to exist and are now growing economically and socially.
Fatah has realized that if you don't start trouble with the Israelis, you get no trouble.

The only Palestinians that are asking for trouble is Hamas, they are the problem here.

"Man is the only animal that deals in that atrocity of atrocities, War. He is the only one that gathers his brethren about him and goes forth in cold blood and calm pulse to exterminate his kind. He is the only animal that for sordid wages will march out...and help to slaughter strangers of his own species who have done him no harm and with whom he has no quarrel. ..And in the intervals between campaigns he washes the blood off his hands and works for "the universal brotherhood of man"--with his mouth" .. MT


Not entirely true. Chimpanzees troops will systematically hunt down another troops nearby, one at a time until there's none of the other group left. Not just little raid/skirmishes, but even "wars" lasting for 4 years.

http://www.lessonsfo...n.asp?abc_id=47
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#459 Tearloch7

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 12:14 AM

Save for the fact that the West Bank has had no parts in this conflict. Reason why? They've recognized the right of Israel to exist and are now growing economically and socially.
Fatah has realized that if you don't start trouble with the Israelis, you get no trouble.

The only Palestinians that are asking for trouble is Hamas, they are the problem here.



Not entirely true. Chimpanzees troops will systematically hunt down another troops nearby, one at a time until there's none of the other group left. Not just little raid/skirmishes, but even "wars" lasting for 4 years.

http://www.lessonsfo...n.asp?abc_id=47


"often it is so easy to get wrapped up in the minutiae, and miss the broad strokes history uses when true change takes place"
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"To Thine Own Self Be True"

#460 MoneypuckOverlord

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 01:19 AM

A win for hamas, as more lives will not be lost.

The last time there was a Gaza and Israel was at war, Gaza had a total of 1600 deaths, (militants and civilians)
Israel lost a total of 13 lives. 4 milatery 9 civilians. Israel can literally level gaza no problem. If Gaza does shoot rockets again, Egypt is unable to stop gaza from firing their rockets, the IDF will go in.
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November 20th 2013, Canucks just lost their 5th straight game. Last time this happened the Canucks, they missed the playoffs.

#461 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 01:36 AM

A win for hamas, as more lives will not be lost.

The last time there was a Gaza and Israel was at war, Gaza had a total of 1600 deaths, (militants and civilians)
Israel lost a total of 13 lives. 4 milatery 9 civilians. Israel can literally level gaza no problem. If Gaza does shoot rockets again, Egypt is unable to stop gaza from firing their rockets, the IDF will go in.


I do not think any one is winning in this conflict



I believe that what the israeli kid vocalise's at 36 seconds into this video, sums up this conflict .

Why do kids have to turn into adults :sadno:
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"These are the things to keep in mind. These are not just academic exercises. We're not analyzing the media on Mars or in the eighteenth century or something like that. We're dealing with real human beings who are suffering and dying and being tortured and starving because of policies that we are involved in, we as citizens of democratic societies are directly involved in and are responsible for, and what the media are doing is ensuring that we do not act on our responsibilities, and that the interests of power are served, not the needs of the suffering people, and not even the needs of the American people who would be horrified if they realized the blood that's dripping from their hands because of the way they are allowing themselves to be deluded and manipulated by the system."
Noam Chomsky

Jesus didn’t say yes to everyone. I mean Jesus knew that there was a place for everything and it is not necessarily everyone’s place to come to Australia
Tony Abbott......Current Australian PM

#462 لني

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 01:43 AM

Khaled Mishal was adamant that Palestinians won during his speech.


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View Postnhlconspiracy, on 21 April 2011 - 02:05 PM, said:

It is not my intent to get in circular arguments with anybody. The reason i have avoided saying anything specific is because i know you or someone else will attempt to find an alternate explanation to my points which i intern will have to defend. I see no point in getting involved with the circular argument that is already well under way in this thread. I simply intended to voice my opinion on the subject. In the end either you accept the possibility of corruption and conspiracy or you don't.

Also i find your comments to be very childish. Does taking what i say out of context, paraphrasing and misquoting it make you feel good about yourself? Grow up.

Logic at its finest.

#463 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 01:54 AM

Khaled Mishal was adamant that Palestinians won during his speech.


Tell that to these girls

Posted Image
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"These are the things to keep in mind. These are not just academic exercises. We're not analyzing the media on Mars or in the eighteenth century or something like that. We're dealing with real human beings who are suffering and dying and being tortured and starving because of policies that we are involved in, we as citizens of democratic societies are directly involved in and are responsible for, and what the media are doing is ensuring that we do not act on our responsibilities, and that the interests of power are served, not the needs of the suffering people, and not even the needs of the American people who would be horrified if they realized the blood that's dripping from their hands because of the way they are allowing themselves to be deluded and manipulated by the system."
Noam Chomsky

Jesus didn’t say yes to everyone. I mean Jesus knew that there was a place for everything and it is not necessarily everyone’s place to come to Australia
Tony Abbott......Current Australian PM

#464 لني

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 02:02 AM

Tell that to these girls

Posted Image


I think you mean Mr Mishal should.
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Sent from my iPhone Canucks App

View Postnhlconspiracy, on 21 April 2011 - 02:05 PM, said:

It is not my intent to get in circular arguments with anybody. The reason i have avoided saying anything specific is because i know you or someone else will attempt to find an alternate explanation to my points which i intern will have to defend. I see no point in getting involved with the circular argument that is already well under way in this thread. I simply intended to voice my opinion on the subject. In the end either you accept the possibility of corruption and conspiracy or you don't.

Also i find your comments to be very childish. Does taking what i say out of context, paraphrasing and misquoting it make you feel good about yourself? Grow up.

Logic at its finest.

#465 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 02:21 AM

I think you mean Mr Mishal should.


That is exactly what i meant .
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"These are the things to keep in mind. These are not just academic exercises. We're not analyzing the media on Mars or in the eighteenth century or something like that. We're dealing with real human beings who are suffering and dying and being tortured and starving because of policies that we are involved in, we as citizens of democratic societies are directly involved in and are responsible for, and what the media are doing is ensuring that we do not act on our responsibilities, and that the interests of power are served, not the needs of the suffering people, and not even the needs of the American people who would be horrified if they realized the blood that's dripping from their hands because of the way they are allowing themselves to be deluded and manipulated by the system."
Noam Chomsky

Jesus didn’t say yes to everyone. I mean Jesus knew that there was a place for everything and it is not necessarily everyone’s place to come to Australia
Tony Abbott......Current Australian PM

#466 Special Ed

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 12:46 PM

http://www.ottawacit...1143/story.html

Interesting article which I completely agree with. As I have been saying since the start of this thread and I will take a quote from the article...

"The root problem is the proliferation of radical Islamist movements across the region, of which Hamas is a local representative. For as long as such movements continue to hold power, Israel has little choice but to hit them back hard, and then to remain vigilant until the next round, which will surely come."

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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#467 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 02:21 PM

These guys better get their crap together

"Coming Up Next! The Resurrection! Live!": "If the Messiah descends from the Mount of Olives as foretold in the Bible," wrote the Los Angeles Times in an October dispatch from Jerusalem, the two largest Christian television networks in the U.S. promise to cover the arrival live from a hilltop in the city. Daystar Television has already been beaming a 24/7 webcam view, and Trinity Broadcasting Network bought the building next door to Daystar's in September and has already begun staging live and pre-recorded programs using the broad expanse of the Holy Land city as background. [Los Angeles Times, 10-1-2012]
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"These are the things to keep in mind. These are not just academic exercises. We're not analyzing the media on Mars or in the eighteenth century or something like that. We're dealing with real human beings who are suffering and dying and being tortured and starving because of policies that we are involved in, we as citizens of democratic societies are directly involved in and are responsible for, and what the media are doing is ensuring that we do not act on our responsibilities, and that the interests of power are served, not the needs of the suffering people, and not even the needs of the American people who would be horrified if they realized the blood that's dripping from their hands because of the way they are allowing themselves to be deluded and manipulated by the system."
Noam Chomsky

Jesus didn’t say yes to everyone. I mean Jesus knew that there was a place for everything and it is not necessarily everyone’s place to come to Australia
Tony Abbott......Current Australian PM

#468 Special Ed

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 02:56 PM

Israel has made an arrest in the bus bombing. An individual with connects to Hamas. Anyone else shocked?

http://www.cnn.com/2...ests/index.html

(CNN) -- An arrest has been made in Wednesday's bombing in Tel Aviv of a bus, an Israel Defense Forces spokeswoman Thursday.
"He is an Arab-Israeli from Taybe & was a member of Hamas," said the spokeswoman, Avital Leibovich, in a Twitter posting about the attack, in which 24 people were wounded. Taybe is a village in the West Bank.
Israeli police said that the bomb was detonated by a cell phone and that the suspect was from Ramallah on the West Bank.
A police spokesman said three of the victims were seriously wounded in the lunchtime attack, which occurred near the Defense Ministry headquarters.
The attack occurred a few hours before the declaration of a cease-fire that ended eight days of hostilities between Gaza and Israel.
Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal told CNN on Wednesday that Hamas was not involved in the attack, which he blamed on Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
"Who created the circumstances that led to this?" he asked. 'It is Benjamin Netanyahu with his crimes, in killing the kids of Gaza, and the continuity of aggression."

------

Who created the circumstances which led to this? Well how about the people who armed and trained a guy to go blow up some random bus full of civilians. Good thing they were only 'seriously wounded'. That makes it 'ok' according to some geniuses.

Edited by Special Ed, 22 November 2012 - 03:04 PM.

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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#469 Tearloch7

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 03:21 PM

Israel has made an arrest in the bus bombing. An individual with connects to Hamas. Anyone else shocked?

http://www.cnn.com/2...ests/index.html

(CNN) -- An arrest has been made in Wednesday's bombing in Tel Aviv of a bus, an Israel Defense Forces spokeswoman Thursday.
"He is an Arab-Israeli from Taybe & was a member of Hamas," said the spokeswoman, Avital Leibovich, in a Twitter posting about the attack, in which 24 people were wounded. Taybe is a village in the West Bank.
Israeli police said that the bomb was detonated by a cell phone and that the suspect was from Ramallah on the West Bank.
A police spokesman said three of the victims were seriously wounded in the lunchtime attack, which occurred near the Defense Ministry headquarters.
The attack occurred a few hours before the declaration of a cease-fire that ended eight days of hostilities between Gaza and Israel.
Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal told CNN on Wednesday that Hamas was not involved in the attack, which he blamed on Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
"Who created the circumstances that led to this?" he asked. 'It is Benjamin Netanyahu with his crimes, in killing the kids of Gaza, and the continuity of aggression."

------

Who created the circumstances which led to this? Well how about the people who armed and trained a guy to go blow up some random bus full of civilians. Good thing they were only 'seriously wounded'. That makes it 'ok' according to some geniuses.


Did Jesus start it all by accusing his fellow Jews of usury? .. perhaps so .. they started down the wrong path centuries ago .. -_-
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"To Thine Own Self Be True"

#470 Aleksandr Pistoletov

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 03:23 PM

Israel has made an arrest in the bus bombing. An individual with connects to Hamas. Anyone else shocked?

http://www.cnn.com/2...ests/index.html

(CNN) -- An arrest has been made in Wednesday's bombing in Tel Aviv of a bus, an Israel Defense Forces spokeswoman Thursday.
"He is an Arab-Israeli from Taybe & was a member of Hamas," said the spokeswoman, Avital Leibovich, in a Twitter posting about the attack, in which 24 people were wounded. Taybe is a village in the West Bank.
Israeli police said that the bomb was detonated by a cell phone and that the suspect was from Ramallah on the West Bank.
A police spokesman said three of the victims were seriously wounded in the lunchtime attack, which occurred near the Defense Ministry headquarters.
The attack occurred a few hours before the declaration of a cease-fire that ended eight days of hostilities between Gaza and Israel.
Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal told CNN on Wednesday that Hamas was not involved in the attack, which he blamed on Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
"Who created the circumstances that led to this?" he asked. 'It is Benjamin Netanyahu with his crimes, in killing the kids of Gaza, and the continuity of aggression."

------

Who created the circumstances which led to this? Well how about the people who armed and trained a guy to go blow up some random bus full of civilians. Good thing they were only 'seriously wounded'. That makes it 'ok' according to some geniuses.

If you wanna go back a reasonable amount of time obviously the conflict persists because of their (holy) land being taken from Palestinians. Can't blame them for being upset.

Then, currently, with that history in mind, given the impositions against the Palestinians which include sanctions and illegal settlements, I can't say I blame them. I guess what I'm saying is, I'm perfectly okay with this. If Israel really wants peace and to compromise they'll rightfully make concessions rather than provocations. If Israel would genuinely help Palestinians rather than only keep them somewhat around to make justifiable their outrageous military spending on a ton of missiles to target a few nuts with rockets that hardly pose any threat whatsoever.. they'd probably find people more friendly. If I was in the circumstance of being thrown out of my home/holy land by foreign nations at the behest of people that already co-existed with Palestinians, I'd probably that an extreme amount of hatred too. Who wouldn't?

Edited by zaibatsu, 22 November 2012 - 03:30 PM.

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#471 Special Ed

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 03:32 PM

If you wanna go back a reasonable amount of time obviously the conflict persists because of their (holy) land being taken from Palestinians. Can't blame them for being upset.

Then, currently, with that history in mind, given the impositions against the Palestinians which include sanctions and illegal settlements, I can't say I blame them. I guess what I'm saying is, I'm perfectly okay with this. If Israel really wants peace and to compromise they'll rightfully make concessions rather than provocations.


Please define what you call 'reasonable' amount of time to go back. I'm assuming you mean a 'reasonable' time to go back and suit the purpose of your argument right? So just go back enough time you want? Go ahead and clarify. And while you're at it I'm still waiting to hear any reasonable 'solution' from anyone regarding Israel's land 'violations'. Which hopefully don't intend on giving terrorist groups more power.
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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#472 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 03:39 PM

If you wanna go back a reasonable amount of time obviously the conflict persists because of their (holy) land being taken from Palestinians. Can't blame them for being upset.

Then, currently, with that history in mind, given the impositions against the Palestinians which include sanctions and illegal settlements, I can't say I blame them. I guess what I'm saying is, I'm perfectly okay with this. If Israel really wants peace and to compromise they'll rightfully make concessions rather than provocations. If Israel would genuinely help Palestinians rather than only keep them somewhat around to make justifiable their outrageous military spending on a ton of missiles to target a few nuts with rockets that hardly pose any threat whatsoever.. they'd probably find people more friendly. If I was in the circumstance of being thrown out of my home/holy land by foreign nations at the behest of people that already co-existed with Palestinians, I'd probably that an extreme amount of hatred too. Who wouldn't?


Zaibatsu , you are applying reason and logic as to the root issue's at the core of this conflict .

Unfortunately some users posting in this thread cintinually refuse to do this .
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"These are the things to keep in mind. These are not just academic exercises. We're not analyzing the media on Mars or in the eighteenth century or something like that. We're dealing with real human beings who are suffering and dying and being tortured and starving because of policies that we are involved in, we as citizens of democratic societies are directly involved in and are responsible for, and what the media are doing is ensuring that we do not act on our responsibilities, and that the interests of power are served, not the needs of the suffering people, and not even the needs of the American people who would be horrified if they realized the blood that's dripping from their hands because of the way they are allowing themselves to be deluded and manipulated by the system."
Noam Chomsky

Jesus didn’t say yes to everyone. I mean Jesus knew that there was a place for everything and it is not necessarily everyone’s place to come to Australia
Tony Abbott......Current Australian PM

#473 Aleksandr Pistoletov

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 03:40 PM

Please define what you call 'reasonable' amount of time to go back. I'm assuming you mean a 'reasonable' time to go back and suit the purpose of your argument right? So just go back enough time you want? Go ahead and clarify. And while you're at it I'm still waiting to hear any reasonable 'solution' from anyone regarding Israel's land 'violations'. Which hopefully don't intend on giving terrorist groups more power.

Reasonable time as in historically enough time for the living population to have either had their parents killed in the war that ensued from this oddball land grab, or somehow, although improbable for that region, be alive to see their land to be taken. If the argument is you should go back thousands of years, good luck looking reasonable.

Personally I don't care what both Palestinians and Israelis do to each other, they can both annihilate each other for all I care as both of their conflicts arise from the stupidity of religion.. I just find it funny that Israelis and their fervent supporters are up in arms as to why Israel gets the backlash it does. Really? Wow.

Here let me, with an international community, take (holy) land from this group of people, then as we proudly feign innocence because a number of countries subjectively recognize our legitimacy from thousands of years ago, further take land from the people who we took land from. WHAT? They are firing rockets randomly at it? WHOA they hit an empty park or road somewhere in our land we took from them! Bomb them! Expand settlements! Wait, why are you people so mad? Posted Image

How you do not find irony from this.. beyond me. :lol: I guess being a fervent supporter of Zionism has it's drawbacks in lacking reason.

Edited by zaibatsu, 22 November 2012 - 03:47 PM.

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#474 Tearloch7

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 03:46 PM

I do believe hell just froze over .. I gave zaibatsu

Zaibatsu , you are applying reason and logic as to the root issue's at the core of this conflict .

Unfortunately some users posting in this thread cintinually refuse to do this .


Hell must have froze over .. I just used three +'s for zaibatsu posts .. :lol:
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#475 Special Ed

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 06:06 PM

Reasonable time as in historically enough time for the living population to have either had their parents killed in the war that ensued from this oddball land grab, or somehow, although improbable for that region, be alive to see their land to be taken. If the argument is you should go back thousands of years, good luck looking reasonable.

Personally I don't care what both Palestinians and Israelis do to each other, they can both annihilate each other for all I care as both of their conflicts arise from the stupidity of religion.. I just find it funny that Israelis and their fervent supporters are up in arms as to why Israel gets the backlash it does. Really? Wow.

Here let me, with an international community, take (holy) land from this group of people, then as we proudly feign innocence because a number of countries subjectively recognize our legitimacy from thousands of years ago, further take land from the people who we took land from. WHAT? They are firing rockets randomly at it? WHOA they hit an empty park or road somewhere in our land we took from them! Bomb them! Expand settlements! Wait, why are you people so mad? Posted Image

How you do not find irony from this.. beyond me. :lol: I guess being a fervent supporter of Zionism has it's drawbacks in lacking reason.


Call me a 'Zionist supporter' all you want. I'm not a Jew nor have even befriended one. Never been to Israel and don't plan to go. If being against radical Islamic factions who currently terrorize the world on a global scale makes me a 'Zionist supporter' well I guess I must be.
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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#476 لني

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 08:19 PM

Reasonable time as in historically enough time for the living population to have either had their parents killed in the war that ensued from this oddball land grab, or somehow, although improbable for that region, be alive to see their land to be taken. If the argument is you should go back thousands of years, good luck looking reasonable.

Personally I don't care what both Palestinians and Israelis do to each other, they can both annihilate each other for all I care as both of their conflicts arise from the stupidity of religion.. I just find it funny that Israelis and their fervent supporters are up in arms as to why Israel gets the backlash it does. Really? Wow.

Here let me, with an international community, take (holy) land from this group of people, then as we proudly feign innocence because a number of countries subjectively recognize our legitimacy from thousands of years ago, further take land from the people who we took land from. WHAT? They are firing rockets randomly at it? WHOA they hit an empty park or road somewhere in our land we took from them! Bomb them! Expand settlements! Wait, why are you people so mad? Posted Image

How you do not find irony from this.. beyond me. :lol: I guess being a fervent supporter of Zionism has it's drawbacks in lacking reason.


Reasonable has absolutely nothing to do with it and its that thinking that keeps each side locked in to the cycle of unreasonableness.

All sides think they are reasonable and the others are not.


Israel is far from surprised at the response.

Edited by لني, 22 November 2012 - 08:20 PM.

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View Postnhlconspiracy, on 21 April 2011 - 02:05 PM, said:

It is not my intent to get in circular arguments with anybody. The reason i have avoided saying anything specific is because i know you or someone else will attempt to find an alternate explanation to my points which i intern will have to defend. I see no point in getting involved with the circular argument that is already well under way in this thread. I simply intended to voice my opinion on the subject. In the end either you accept the possibility of corruption and conspiracy or you don't.

Also i find your comments to be very childish. Does taking what i say out of context, paraphrasing and misquoting it make you feel good about yourself? Grow up.

Logic at its finest.

#477 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 08:22 PM

Ya... hell definitely just froze over, I had to plus Zaibatsu again.
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Credit to -Vintage Canuck-


#478 Coda

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 09:24 PM

If you wanna go back a reasonable amount of time obviously the conflict persists because of their (holy) land being taken from Palestinians. Can't blame them for being upset.

Then, currently, with that history in mind, given the impositions against the Palestinians which include sanctions and illegal settlements, I can't say I blame them. I guess what I'm saying is, I'm perfectly okay with this. If Israel really wants peace and to compromise they'll rightfully make concessions rather than provocations. If Israel would genuinely help Palestinians rather than only keep them somewhat around to make justifiable their outrageous military spending on a ton of missiles to target a few nuts with rockets that hardly pose any threat whatsoever.. they'd probably find people more friendly. If I was in the circumstance of being thrown out of my home/holy land by foreign nations at the behest of people that already co-existed with Palestinians, I'd probably that an extreme amount of hatred too. Who wouldn't?


I challenge you to find any country in the world ever being constantly bombarded by a neighbour being more helpful than the Israelis have been to the Palestinians. I expect an answer to this challenge or else I'll just assume you are spouting nonsense.

Israel's humanitarian aid efforts

Israel has a long-standing tradition of extending aid to alleviate hunger, disease and poverty, as well as in the wake of natural disasters and terrorist attacks beyond its borders. Posted Image
Israeli medical and rescue teams extend aid after Haiti earthquake - Jan 2010 (Photos: IDF Spokesperson)
Israel on the frontline of international aid

A first response team after the devastating Haiti earthquake; decades of humanitarian assistance and capacity building in Africa; emergency medical aid and transfers into Gaza: the Israeli government and its people show exemplary levels of humanitarian aid, both internationally and locally.
Even after years of provocation, rocket attacks, and bombings, Israel defies terror organizations and works to uphold the highest standards of assistance and support to civilians everywhere, whether it's in Asia, Africa, Europe, Iraq, or the West Bank and Gaza.
Israel has a heightened sense of humanitarian awareness and responsibility. With aid teams poised to respond in the wake of natural or man-made disasters anywhere in the world, Israel's 200-strong relief team was the first on the scene in January 2010 after the earthquake hit Haiti. Israel helped save thousands of lives. In March 2011 following the devastating earthquakes in Japan, Israel was one of the first countries to send aid according to the needs and request of the Japanese government, and one of the first states to send a medical team and set up a field clinic.
By tragic circumstance, Israel is a world leader in handling mass casualties. No other country can dispatch search and rescue teams and field hospitals as fast and effectively.

Israeli efforts also include relief to New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina, and first response aid in the wake of the 2004 tsunami with 60 tons of international aid to Indonesia, and 82 tons of relief to Sri Lanka alone.

Posted Image
Tsunami - January 2005:
Sri Lankan child receives medical treatment


After the 2005 earthquake in Kashmir, the Israeli Flying Aid group sent a mission to give supplies and shelter for thousands of families. In 2009, Israel medical teams provided relief to storm victims in the Philippines and food aid a year earlier to the Congo.
Israel's inclusion in the OECD, the 31-member economic forum, in 2010 demonstrates Israel’s commitment to upholding the highest levels of humanitarian commitment.
IDF aid missions help thousands around the world: Over the last 26 years, Israel has sent out 15 aid missions to countries struck by natural disasters. Immediately upon arriving in these countries, IDF doctors set up field hospitals. Overall, medical care was given to more than 2,300 people in afflicted areas, and 220 were saved from certain death.



A history of helping beyond borders


Through various governmental organizations like MASHAV, Israel's Agency for International Development Cooperation, and non-governmental organizations, Israel has a long-standing tradition of coordinating relief to alleviate disease, hunger, and poverty.
Starting 10 years after its founding, Israel adopted an official humanitarian aid agenda, providing vital relief to more than 140 countries. Among those countries receiving aid are nations that do not maintain diplomatic relations with Israel.
Since 1959, Israeli doctors have been offering eye camps to treat ocular diseases to people throughout the developing world.
In 1970 Israel started opening its doors to the world's refugees. It has saved non-Jewish people in distress and those seeking refuge from countries such as Lebanon, Egypt, Iran, Vietnam, Bosnia, Kosovo, Eritrea and Sudan.
Since 1995 Israeli doctors acting through Save a Child's Heart have been giving kids from around the world, including from the Palestinian Authority (PA), Iraq, Jordan and other Arab nations free life-saving heart operations. Since the organization first started 2,300 children have been treated, and almost half are from the PA, Jordan and Iraq.

More on YouTube: Israeli humanitarian aid



The Gaza Strip: The humanitarian lifeline

Despite attacks by Hamas, Israel maintains an ongoing humanitarian corridor for the transfer of perishable and staple food items to Gaza. This conduit is used by internationally recognized organizations including the United Nations and the Red Cross. The Gaza Coordination and Liaison Administration works together with international organizations to respond to the needs of the Palestinian population in Gaza.

Posted Image
Food, medicine and ambulances are delivered to Gaza
via the Kerem Shalom crossing (Photos: IDF Spokesperson)


In 2009 -
  • 738,576 tons (30,576 trucks) of humanitarian commodities were transferred to the Gaza Strip.
  • 22,849 Palestinians exited the Strip, among them 10,544 patients and their companions, exiting for medical treatment in Israel.
  • 21,200 international organization staff members entered the Gaza Strip.
  • 4,883 tons of medical equipment and medicine entered the Strip, in 572 trucks, based on requests made by the PA and the international community.
At the Cabinet meeting of 22 March 2009, the Government of Israel instructed the bodies dealing with the matter, to enable the entry - without restriction - of foodstuffs to the residents of Gaza from all relevant sources in the framework of the humanitarian efforts.
At the Security Cabinet meeting of June 2010, the Government outlined its new policy towards the Gaza Strip. It was agreed to:
  • Liberalize the system by which civilian goods enter Gaza.
  • Expand the inflow of materials for civilian projects that are under international supervision.
  • Continue existing security procedures to prevent the inflow of weapons and war materiel
Since the decision of June 2010, the number of trucks delivering goods to the Gaza Strip has steadily increased - from a daily average of 120 in April 2010 to 247 in September 2011.
Posted Image
Trucks bringing goods to Kerem Shalom (Photo: IDF)

Posted Image
Trucks bringing goods to Kerem Shalom (Photo: IDF)

Posted Image


Well over a million tons of humanitarian supplies entered Gaza from Israel from January 2009 - May 2010, equaling nearly a ton of aid for every man, woman and child in Gaza. Food and supplies are shipped from Israel to Gaza six days a week, channeled through aid organizations or via Gaza's private sector. Millions of dollars worth of international food aid continually flows through the Israeli humanitarian apparatus, ensuring that there is no food shortage in Gaza.
Essential food products including meat, chicken and fish, grains and legumes, oil, flour, oil, salt and sugar, fresh vegetables and dairy products, in addition to agricultural produce, animal feed, hygiene products, clothing and medicals supplies are among the goods that are regularly delivered to Gaza. Fertilizers that cannot be used to make explosives are shipped into the Strip regularly, as are potato seeds, eggs for reproduction, bees, and equipment for the flower industry.
Israel also coordinates the transfer of medical supplies and school equipment supplied by UNRWA including notebooks, school bags, writing implements and textbooks, and laptops for Gaza schoolchildren.
Gas for domestic use (cooking and heating) is supplied according to Palestinian demand and is not subject to any limitation by Israel. After the fuel depot at Nahal Oz was repeatedly attacked by Palestinian terrorists from the Gaza Strip, it was forced to limit its operations. The Kerem Shalom crossing has since been adapted to the transfer of fuel and a new gas line with double the capacity to transfer gas was built.
Coordination and processing of requests regarding humanitarian infrastructure, such as water, sewage and electricity systems, in the Gaza Strip is conducted between COGAT and the Palestinian Authority. While the import of cement and iron has been restricted into Gaza since these are used by the Hamas to cast rockets and bunkers, monitored imports of truckloads of cement, iron, and building supplies such as wood and windows are regularly coordinated with international parties.
Israel maintains a corridor for the transfer of medical patients out of Gaza, and about 200 medical staff members go through the crossings every month. In addition to medical evacuations, the Erez Crossing enables two-way traffic of international organizations' staff between Israel and Gaza as well as Gaza residents with various humanitarian needs.
In August 2011, the Coordinator of Government Activities in Territories reported that since the Cabinet's decision, 149 new internationally funded projects have been approved. The Cabinet specified that projects in the fields of education, water, sewage, housing and health would be prioritized, and projects in these fields constitute 72% of all the projects approved for implementation in the Gaza Strip. At the end of June 2011, 33 projects were complete and 59 others were in the implementation stages. A total of 279,781 tons of construction materials were transferred to Gaza for these projects.


More on YouTube: Israeli aid to Gaza



Improving Palestinian quality of life in the West Bank

The quality of life in West Bank cities like Nablus, Ramallah, and Qaliqilya is on the rise. Culture and leisure activities are increasingly available to West Bank Palestinians who enjoy movies, health clubs, malls, restaurants, and music festivals.
In 2009, the West Bank enjoyed a significant economic recovery, with economic growth reaching an unprecedented 8% - a continuation of positive trends reported in 2008. Macroeconomic conditions in the West Bank improved during 2009, mainly thanks to measures taken by Israel to support economic activity, improvements in the security situation in the West Bank, the continued financial support of the international community to the Palestinian Authority and increased foreign investment. This economic growth is reflected in an improved quality of life for the Palestinian population. There is an increase in new real estate projects, both residential and commercial. Rawabi, the first planned Palestinian city, is being built with the help of Israeli consultants. The West Bank boasts one of the world's strongest stock exchanges, the Palestinian Securities Exchange, (PSE), which grew 12.5% last year. It is ranked 33 among international stock exchanges and second in the region in terms of investor protection.
An Israeli Cabinet Ministerial Committee, chaired by the Prime Minister, was established in May 2009, dedicated to facilitating economic projects for the Palestinian population in the West Bank and removing obstacles to economic growth. The establishment of this Committee reflects the high priority accorded by the government to Palestinian economic development. Its objectives include examining ways to encourage the movement of goods and people, removing impediments to the progress of economic projects in the West Bank, as well as eliminating bureaucratic impediments in this area.
After two consecutive years of impressive economic growth in the West Bank, the Palestinian economy now faces a slowdown. According to IMF estimates, in the first half of 2011 real GDP growth amounted to approximately 4% (compared to real GDP for the first half of 2010), a decline from the 8% annual growth rate the previous year.
There has been a substantial improvement of access and movement in the West Bank. Major Israeli checkpoints have been reduced from 41 to 14 today, greatly eliminating the restrictions imposed on Palestinians due to security concerns following terrorist attacks. Remaining checkpoints are now open 24 hours a day in most cases. In 2009, Israel issued 54,318 employment permits to Palestinians for work in Israel. Some 1,500 high profile Palestinian business people have open entry permits to Israel (2009).
In 2009, Israel made intensive efforts to upgrade and improve the capacity of the commercial crossings, including the Allenby Bridge Terminal to Jordan and upgrading the commercial crossings between Israel and the West Bank.

Posted Image
Vered Jericho checkpoint (Photo: IDF Spokesperson)


A number of infrastructure projects are currently in different stages of implementation in the West Bank. These projects will help improve the standard of living for the local population, including among others the upgrading of water, electriticy and sanitation infrastructures.


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#479 Coda

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 09:30 PM

Reasonable time as in historically enough time for the living population to have either had their parents killed in the war that ensued from this oddball land grab, or somehow, although improbable for that region, be alive to see their land to be taken. If the argument is you should go back thousands of years, good luck looking reasonable.

Personally I don't care what both Palestinians and Israelis do to each other, they can both annihilate each other for all I care as both of their conflicts arise from the stupidity of religion.. I just find it funny that Israelis and their fervent supporters are up in arms as to why Israel gets the backlash it does. Really? Wow.

Here let me, with an international community, take (holy) land from this group of people, then as we proudly feign innocence because a number of countries subjectively recognize our legitimacy from thousands of years ago, further take land from the people who we took land from. WHAT? They are firing rockets randomly at it? WHOA they hit an empty park or road somewhere in our land we took from them! Bomb them! Expand settlements! Wait, why are you people so mad? Posted Image

How you do not find irony from this.. beyond me. :lol: I guess being a fervent supporter of Zionism has it's drawbacks in lacking reason.


Interesting. I'm guessing most of the Anti-Israelis on this forum are Caucasians living in North America. I suppose you would think it a reasonable response for the native population to start blowing up buses in your city, suicide bombing civilians, and shooting hundreds of rockets from reserves into neighbouring towns. I suppose you'd think the angry response would be "ironic" and condemn the governments from responding to stop the attacks.

Actually...no you wouldn't.
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#480 Tearloch7

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 09:50 PM

Of course it is totally the Palestinians fault for their current plight, despite the benevolence of the all-giving Israeli government .. get yer head out of yer arse! .. it's clouding yer vision .. :picard:
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