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Israel takes out top Hamas commander after missiles launched from Gaza


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#91 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 07:34 PM

Ok first off, Ratio hasn't explicitly taken a side, so the frustration directed to him is unwarranted. If you want to go after an Arab leaning liberal, go after me. Provide all the proverbs and anecdotes you want, fact of the matter is Israel was the initiator, and that is never justifiable.

In the mean time, I hope we can discuss the events that are occurring as impartial as possible. The entire thing is ugly from both sides, let's report, not argue.
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#92 Special Ed

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 07:42 PM

As well I believe that the only answer strategically to the rocket launches is a ground invasion. With Hamas fighting within cities and beside the civilian population what do you expect will happen? Of course there will be Palestinian civilian casualties in high numbers. Maybe you can ask Hamas nicely to fight outside the cities and clear their areas of civilians. Good luck with that. In fact Hamas will purposely use civilian buildings as fighting positions KNOWING that Israel wants to avoid civilian casualties...What does that tell you?

Civilian casualties are good for Hamas they will video tape every one. When if they really cared Hamas could easily evacuate fighting areas of civilians or choose to fight in different locations themselves. From what I understand the Palestinian militias have been upgraded with more powerful weapons from Iran. That will make a ground offensive more difficult and cause more civilian casualties when eventually the Israeli will have to use artillery to clear areas.

Maybe to be 'fair' Israel should just do what has been done to them. Suicide on tourist buses, assassinate the Palestinian Olympic team and launch rockets randomly towards Gaza. Then the Palestinians would really have something to complain about.

Edited by Special Ed, 16 November 2012 - 07:47 PM.

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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#93 Tearloch7

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 07:55 PM

As well I believe that the only answer strategically to the rocket launches is a ground invasion. With Hamas fighting within cities and beside the civilian population what do you expect will happen? Of course there will be Palestinian civilian casualties in high numbers. Maybe you can ask Hamas nicely to fight outside the cities and clear their areas of civilians. Good luck with that. In fact Hamas will purposely use civilian buildings as fighting positions KNOWING that Israel wants to avoid civilian casualties...What does that tell you?

Civilian casualties are good for Hamas they will video tape every one. When if they really cared Hamas could easily evacuate fighting areas of civilians or choose to fight in different locations themselves. From what I understand the Palestinian militias have been upgraded with more powerful weapons from Iran. That will make a ground offensive more difficult and cause more civilian casualties when eventually the Israeli will have to use artillery to clear areas.

Maybe to be 'fair' Israel should just do what has been done to them. Suicide on tourist buses, assassinate the Palestinian Olympic team and launch rockets randomly towards Gaza. Then the Palestinians would really have something to complain about.


"All is fair in love and war" .. rocks against tanks is fair? .. maybe Hamas should assassinate the Israeli Defense Minister? .. I am sure they would if he was not hiding in a bunker somewhere .. this ludicrous situation will not stop until the World cares enough to get involved ..

The Arab League needs to take Hamas and the other factions "in-hand", and the US of A needs to put Bebe and the Israeli's back on their leash .. "muzzle dem dogs" ..

This is the 21st Century is it not??

Edited by Tearloch7, 16 November 2012 - 07:58 PM.

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"To Thine Own Self Be True"

 

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#94 ThaBestPlaceOnEarth

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 08:04 PM

I don't think this is really about Hamas or Gaza at all. Israel is trying to send a message to the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, a warning. Gaza is just a proxy.
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Ceterum censeo Chicaginem delendam esse


#95 canucks since 77

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 08:05 PM

Yet it's perfectly alright for others to conveniently neglect to balance their anti-Israel education and material to acknowledge the atrocities perpetrated by others against Israel. Alrighty then.........the proof is there for all to see yet folks keep falling back on tired old anti-Israel propaganda..........


Baruch dayan emet....Shalom alecha ......

I am not anti-Isral. I am anti-Zionist. The root problem of the Israely people. Please read before you leap.
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Politeness is the first step to respect!

#96 Special Ed

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 08:12 PM

"All is fair in love and war" .. rocks against tanks is fair? .. maybe Hamas should assassinate the Israeli Defense Minister? .. I am sure they would if he was not hiding in a bunker somewhere .. this ludicrous situation will not stop until the World cares enough to get involved ..

The Arab League needs to take Hamas and the other factions "in-hand", and the US of A needs to put Bebe and the Israeli's back on their leash .. "muzzle dem dogs" ..

This is the 21st Century is it not??


Rocks against tanks? You do realize that Hamas has used IEDs and missiles to destroy many Israeli tanks in previous fighting right? Maybe they should assassinate the Israeli DM? You don't think Hamas wouldn't love to lol? Usually these wars are only resolved when one side wins and crushes the other, forcing it to submit to terms. The world prevents an Israeli victory which could easily be had and allows Hamas to get stronger. Making the conflict drag on longer and the list of civilian casualties on both sides will only grow.

The Arab league can't control the militias who operate independently and are not subject to agreements. That's why you have so much conflict in the Islamic world mainly because of radical ideologies and militias. Very difficult to live with or around a combination of those two elements. It's the 21st century only for some of us.

Edited by Special Ed, 16 November 2012 - 08:14 PM.

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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#97 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 08:14 PM

I am not anti-Isral. I am anti-Zionist. The root problem of the Israely people. Please read before you leap.


Oh I read it, and my words were chosen very carefully, thanks all the same.
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Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem.....



#98 Tearloch7

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 08:16 PM

Rocks against tanks? You do realize that Hamas has used IEDs and missiles to destroy many Israeli tanks in previous fighting right? Maybe they should assassinate the Israeli DM? You don't think Hamas wouldn't love to lol? Usually these wars are only resolved when one side wins and crushes the other, forcing it to submit to terms. The world prevents an Israeli victory which could easily be had and allows Hamas to get stronger. Making the conflict drag on longer and the list of civilian casualties on both sides will only grow.

The Arab league can't control the militias who operate independently and are not subject to agreements. That's why you have so much conflict in the Islamic world mainly because of radical ideologies and militias. Very difficult to live with or around a combination of those two elements. It's the 21st century only for some of us.


I would nuke the whole region and start over .. but pragmatism aside, I guess if Iran can get a bomb and defeat Israel it will be OK? .. as long as there is a definitive "winner"?? .. the Muddle East .. just another of "Gods" blunders ..

EDit: I agree with you .. it is just so frustrating .. I think of the innocents on both sides and weep inside ..

Edited by Tearloch7, 16 November 2012 - 08:17 PM.

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"To Thine Own Self Be True"

 

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#99 Special Ed

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 08:21 PM

I would nuke the whole region and start over .. but pragmatism aside, I guess if Iran can get a bomb and defeat Israel it will be OK? .. as long as there is a definitive "winner"?? .. the Muddle East .. just another of "Gods" blunders ..

EDit: I agree with you .. it is just so frustrating .. I think of the innocents on both sides and weep inside ..


Well Israel has nukes too so it would be very foolish for Iran to consider such a thing. If anything Iran would smuggle a nuke to militias in order to get the dirty work done. And that's why Israel is trying to stop them. Israel has nukes but hasn't used any. How long do you think it would take one of the Palestinian militias before they used a nuke that was smuggled to them? Hmmmmm?

In reply to your edit- wars are a part of humans. Even to create what North America is today the most unimaginable horrors were set upon the natives. It's not a part of our history I'm proud of but it happened. Now we deal with it and the Europeans settlers should all have a profound respect for native Americans. Who were subject to massacres, forced onto reserves and given small pox(in some cases British officers gifted natives blankets infected with small pox). That's how brutal it was and the natives were no angels either. They regularly massacred each others villages. Human nature.

This conflict between Israel and Palestine seems to me similar to 'settlers VRS natives' scenario with a dash of religious fundamentalism plus interference of other nations. It will not be easily solved and I believe will only be solved after a large war + decisive victory.

Edited by Special Ed, 16 November 2012 - 08:49 PM.

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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#100 Tearloch7

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 09:38 PM

Well Israel has nukes too so it would be very foolish for Iran to consider such a thing. If anything Iran would smuggle a nuke to militias in order to get the dirty work done. And that's why Israel is trying to stop them. Israel has nukes but hasn't used any. How long do you think it would take one of the Palestinian militias before they used a nuke that was smuggled to them? Hmmmmm?

In reply to your edit- wars are a part of humans. Even to create what North America is today the most unimaginable horrors were set upon the natives. It's not a part of our history I'm proud of but it happened. Now we deal with it and the Europeans settlers should all have a profound respect for native Americans. Who were subject to massacres, forced onto reserves and given small pox(in some cases British officers gifted natives blankets infected with small pox). That's how brutal it was and the natives were no angels either. They regularly massacred each others villages. Human nature.

This conflict between Israel and Palestine seems to me similar to 'settlers VRS natives' scenario with a dash of religious fundamentalism plus interference of other nations. It will not be easily solved and I believe will only be solved after a large war + decisive victory.


More like a very un-happy marriage where the proponents hate each other, but canna get away from the relationship .. like having a migraine tooth ache ..
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"To Thine Own Self Be True"

 

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#101 MoneypuckOverlord

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 09:48 PM

I am extremely worried. The problem is escalating. Israel has recalled 75000 reserves. Not sure what they are planning to do. A nation will usually recall it's reserves when it's in National emergency. I hope this doesn't get out of control. A lot of proficies did say, that ww3 was going to start in Middle east. It's extremely scary, as Iran will definelty support any country that is in a conflict with Israel. Israel also has a lot of back up too, like Canada, USA Britian and France. I hope nothing happens.
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Players Nikolaj Ehlers have been compared too by the fan base of the Vancouver Canucks.

 

1 Pavel Bure

2 Markus Naslund

3 Nathan Mackkinon

4 Jonathan Drouin.

5 Jonathan Tavares

 

http://bleacherrepor...d-top-prospects

combine results.  Ehlers 5'11 162 lbs of solid rock.  


#102 DarthNinja

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:49 PM

In this conflict, there is one side that is brutally oppressed and the other side are the brutal oppressors. There is one side under brutal occupation for decades and another side that has been brutally occupying the other.

Merely repeating the nonsense that is regularly spouted by the zionist propaganda ministers (both Israeli and non) does not change anything except to lead people further down the well of delusion. This has nothing to do with zionists defending themselves and everything to do with zionists pullinh the wool over the eyes of the TV-watchers and claiming the right to create and cause more suffering, oppression and brutality against a people.

Israel’s Goebbels at work over Gaza provocation

By Alan Hart

I imagine I am not the only one who feels the need to vomit (dictionary definition: “to throw up the contents of the stomach through the mouth”) when Israel’s Goebbels justifies the Zionist state’s ferocious and monstrously disproportionate attacks by air and sea on the Israeli-blockaded Gaza Strip, the prison camp which is home to 1.5 million besieged and mainly impoverished Palestinians.

The Israeli to whom I am referring is, of course, Australian-born Mark Regev, the prime minister’s spokesman, for which read spin doctor. The more I see and hear him in action, the more it seems to me that he makes Nazi Germany’s propaganda chief look like an amateur.

In a piece for the Observer on 6 June 2010, Ruth Sutherland wrote the following.

If the men from Mars ever wanted to manufacture a PR man, they would model their robot on Regev. No matter how formidable the interviewer, or how aggressive the questioning, he never buckles under pressure. His disarming Aussie accent and unfailing politeness – he calls interviewers “Sir” and uses phrases like “I beg to disagree” – almost lulls listeners into overlooking his aggression. He is always regretful about death and horror – he regrets that the non-Israeli victims brought their fate on themselves. Viewers are reduced to a trance of slack-jawed amazement at what he is prepared to say with a straight face. He is unlikely to win sceptics to Israel’s cause, but as a PR performer he is horribly compelling.

Compelling he certainly is but, as Sutherland indicated (I will be more explicit), only to Westerners and Americans in particular who have been conditioned for decades by Zionist propaganda and, as a consequence, know nothing or little worth knowing about the truth of history as it relates to the making and sustaining of the conflict in and over Palestine that became Israel.

In the immediate aftermath of Israel’s targeted assassination of Hamas’s military commander, Ahmed Jabari, Regev was at his best. His main message to the Western nations, conveyed via the BBC and many other networks, was that Israel is just like them – democratic and civilized. “I would ask them all,” he said, “how would you act?” (respond to rocket fire from “terrorists”). By obvious implication, he was saying something very like, “You would take all necessary action against the terrorists to defend and protect your people, and that’s why I am sure you will understand and support what we are doing.”

…Israel is not like the Western nations. It is a brutal occupying power, and the cause of the incoming rockets is its occupation and on-going colonization and ethnic cleansing of the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and its blockade of the Gaza Strip.

The flaw in that presentation is that Israel is not like the Western nations. It is a brutal occupying power, and the cause of the incoming rockets is its occupation and on-going colonization and ethnic cleansing of the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and its blockade of the Gaza Strip. That plus the fact that Israel’s leaders have no interest in peace on terms the Palestinians could accept.

Regev also appealed for Western understanding and support on the grounds that “they” (Hamas) say my country should be wiped off the map”.

That’s one of the many big, fat Zionist propaganda lies. The truth is that Hamas is firmly on the record with the statement that while it will never recognize Israel’s right to exist, it is prepared to live in peace with an Israel inside its 1967 borders.

Regev’s master, Binyamin Netanyahu, was also up to his old tricks – diverting attention. He played the Iranian nuclear threat card to get Palestine off the international community’s agenda. With Israel’s next election less than 70 days away, one of his reasons for authorizing Operation Pillar of Defence was, as a report in The Times of Israel put it, “to divert public discourse from social justice to security issues and silence the government’s critics”.

The Mossad’s motto is “By way of deception, thou shall do war.”

Netanyahu obviously believes that by way of deception he can not only retain power but emerge from Israel’s next election with more power than ever. (Enough to tell Obama to go to hell if that ever becomes necessary).

The support (by default if not design) of Western governments for Israel’s latest ferocious and monstrously disproportionate attacks also makes me want to vomit.

http://www.redresson...za-provocation/


Edited by DarthNinja_S19Blade, 16 November 2012 - 11:14 PM.

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**RETIRED...**

"Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens & the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We (Allah) parted them? And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?" (Qur'an 21:30)

11477626583_2368927097.jpg     49997_b70e6ae14ce1652fa11bd1dda624afd1.g   7649118508_ce3e8a74a1_o.jpg

"Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure--one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.” (David Rockefeller)


#103 Special Ed

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 11:31 PM

http://www.redressonline.com/2012/11/in-defence-of-un-palestine-rapporteur-richard-falk/


Took a quick look at that site... Lol

Lets compare a few article titles from that web site....

Israeli hypocrisy at Mavi Marmara trial
Israelís catalogue of savagery
Israelís formula for a starvation diet
Israelís professional liars
Ect

VRS

Still weeping for Gaza
Palestinian history on a billboard vs Israeli fanaticism on the ground
Rebuilding the Palestinian national movement
In defence of UN Palestine rapporteur Richard Falk
Ect.

Hilarious website bias and comedy gold. With links such as 'Zionism' 'stooges' 'America' I had a good chuckle. The next title is going to be, 'Hamas sends over innocent children holding fluffy bunnies to negotiate peace while Israeli vampires enslave the children and cook the bunnies'.

Edited by Special Ed, 16 November 2012 - 11:34 PM.

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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#104 DarthNinja

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 11:35 PM

Took a quick look at that site... Lol

Lets compare a few article titles from that web site....

Israeli hypocrisy at Mavi Marmara trial
Israel's catalogue of savagery
Israel's formula for a starvation diet
Israel's professional liars
Ect

VRS

Still weeping for Gaza
Palestinian history on a billboard vs Israeli fanaticism on the ground
Rebuilding the Palestinian national movement
In defence of UN Palestine rapporteur Richard Falk
Ect.

Hilarious website bias and comedy gold. With links such as 'Zionism' 'stooges' 'America' I had a good chuckle.


Good to see that reality amuses you.
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**RETIRED...**

"Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens & the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We (Allah) parted them? And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?" (Qur'an 21:30)

11477626583_2368927097.jpg     49997_b70e6ae14ce1652fa11bd1dda624afd1.g   7649118508_ce3e8a74a1_o.jpg

"Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure--one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.” (David Rockefeller)


#105 Special Ed

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 11:45 PM

Good to see that reality amuses you.


Yeah the reality of completely biased web sites that can rant on and on about one side, yet conveniently leave out simple things like the 'hundreds of indiscriminate missiles being fired' really amuses me. It's one big hilarious joke.

Edited by Special Ed, 16 November 2012 - 11:46 PM.

  • 0

If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#106 DarthNinja

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 11:49 PM

Yeah the reality of completely biased web sites that can rant on and on about one side, yet conveniently leave out simple things like the 'hundreds of indiscriminate missiles being fired' really amuses me. It's one big hilarious joke.


Did your TV tell you that?
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**RETIRED...**

"Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens & the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We (Allah) parted them? And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?" (Qur'an 21:30)

11477626583_2368927097.jpg     49997_b70e6ae14ce1652fa11bd1dda624afd1.g   7649118508_ce3e8a74a1_o.jpg

"Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure--one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.” (David Rockefeller)


#107 Special Ed

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 12:00 AM

Did your TV tell you that?


Are you denying that Hamas is launching missiles into Israel? I don't expect a reply to my question from you, even though its rather obvious. Just can't admit it can you. So simple just to say the truth darth, 'yes Hamas is launching indiscriminate missiles at Israel'. Well some people remain silent on the truth and stick to only what suits them.

http://www.liveleak....=b82_1353117412

Edited by Special Ed, 17 November 2012 - 12:29 AM.

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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#108 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 12:26 AM

If I saw 2 children fighting in the street, then stopped them. Then I told one child he deserved to be hit and scolded him for hitting the other chile, then I said nothing about the other child's behaviour, you don't think that sends a message?


I would reprimand both of them ,BUT the kid who STARTED the fight is the one i would be concentrating on , which is exactly what i am doing in this thread .
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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#109 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 12:41 AM

Post links and dig through as much history as you want. Fact: Palestinian militias constantly bombard Israel with missiles. So at the VERY LEAST both parties are to blame and anyone solely blaming Israel at this time is completely misguided. As well as anyone trying to justify the bombardment of Israel by historical documents. By that thinking the entire world should be at war and the native Americans should be 'justified' in launching rockets and suiciding on North American civilians.

If the military capabilities were reversed I believe the Jews would be completely annihilated. Every Islamic nation has wanted to eliminate the Jews throughout history and still do. Not just 'peacefully take their land back' it's 'from the river to the sea' the complete destruction of an entire people. At this moment Israel has shown tremendous restraint and only answering to attacks recently. I have noticed this conflict ONLY reaches the news when Israel fights back and that to me is propaganda that you're falling for.


You really do not know much about history do you

The Siege of Jerusalem was part of a military conflict which took place in the year 637 between the Byzantine Empire and the Rashidun Caliphate. It began when the Rashidun army, under the command of Abu Ubaidah, besieged Jerusalem in November 636. After six months, the Patriarch Sophronius agreed to surrender, on condition that he submit only to the Rashidun caliph. In April 637, Caliph Umar traveled to Jerusalem in person to receive the submission of the city.
The Muslim conquest of the city solidified Saracen control over Palestine, control which would not again be threatened until the First Crusade in the late 11th century. Thus, it came to be regarded as a holy site by Islam, as well as by Christianity and Judaism. This stabilized control of Palestina Prima. In 613, the Jewish revolt against the Byzantine Heraclius culminated with the conquest of Jerusalem in 614 by Persian and Jewish forces and establishment of Jewish autonomy. The revolt ended with the departure of the Persians and an eventual massacre of the Jews in 629 by the Byzantines ending 15 years of Jewish autonomy.
Following the Muslim conquest of Jerusalem, Jews were once again allowed to live and practice their religion with more freedom in Jerusalem, 8 years after their massacre by the Byzantines and nearly 500 years after their expulsion from Judea by the Roman Empire.[2] It also resulted in the Covenant of Umar in 637, that outlines the rights and the restrictions of Christians and Jews under Muslim rule, conferring on them the status of dhimmis.

As you can see when the muslims first conquered jerusalem , they let the jews keep their religion , their commerce , they even let them keep their temple ,{which is a sacred place to islam }, and built their temple close by .
Back then islam was an enlightened religion .
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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#110 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 12:57 AM

Yet it's perfectly alright for others to conveniently neglect to balance their anti-Israel education and material to acknowledge the atrocities perpetrated by others against Israel. Alrighty then.........the proof is there for all to see yet folks keep falling back on tired old anti-Israel propaganda..........


Baruch dayan emet....Shalom alecha ......


BB i certainly do not want you to think i am defending the actions of terrorists , or that i condone violence of any sort , especially against women and children .

The terrorist actions of the irgun ,and the stern gang , that taxi so calvierly writes off as actions from the past had a direct impact on my family.
One of my fathers closest friends ,a 20 year old kid who charged up the beach beside him on D-Day was killed on the 22nd of july 1946 in the bombing of the king david hotel .
This man risked his life to carry my father to safety when dad was shot multiple time's on d-day .

As many people who have travelled to palestine have said , what is reported in the media , and what actually happens are 2 very different things.
  • 1

The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#111 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 01:01 AM

Ok first off, Ratio hasn't explicitly taken a side, so the frustration directed to him is unwarranted. If you want to go after an Arab leaning liberal, go after me. Provide all the proverbs and anecdotes you want, fact of the matter is Israel was the initiator, and that is never justifiable.

In the mean time, I hope we can discuss the events that are occurring as impartial as possible. The entire thing is ugly from both sides, let's report, not argue.


Thanks Ossi , i appreciate your support mate .
  • 0

The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#112 Special Ed

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 08:20 AM

You really do not know much about history do you

The Siege of Jerusalem was part of a military conflict which took place in the year 637 between the Byzantine Empire and the Rashidun Caliphate. It began when the Rashidun army, under the command of Abu Ubaidah, besieged Jerusalem in November 636. After six months, the Patriarch Sophronius agreed to surrender, on condition that he submit only to the Rashidun caliph. In April 637, Caliph Umar traveled to Jerusalem in person to receive the submission of the city.
The Muslim conquest of the city solidified Saracen control over Palestine, control which would not again be threatened until the First Crusade in the late 11th century. Thus, it came to be regarded as a holy site by Islam, as well as by Christianity and Judaism. This stabilized control of Palestina Prima. In 613, the Jewish revolt against the Byzantine Heraclius culminated with the conquest of Jerusalem in 614 by Persian and Jewish forces and establishment of Jewish autonomy. The revolt ended with the departure of the Persians and an eventual massacre of the Jews in 629 by the Byzantines ending 15 years of Jewish autonomy.
Following the Muslim conquest of Jerusalem, Jews were once again allowed to live and practice their religion with more freedom in Jerusalem, 8 years after their massacre by the Byzantines and nearly 500 years after their expulsion from Judea by the Roman Empire.[2] It also resulted in the Covenant of Umar in 637, that outlines the rights and the restrictions of Christians and Jews under Muslim rule, conferring on them the status of dhimmis.

As you can see when the muslims first conquered jerusalem , they let the jews keep their religion , their commerce , they even let them keep their temple ,{which is a sacred place to islam }, and built their temple close by .
Back then islam was an enlightened religion .


The year I had in mind was 1967 or 1948. But I suppose if you want to dig far enough you may find some small detail somewhere... Such as the year 637. During the Jurassic period I also do believe that no Jews were under threat :P

Edited by Special Ed, 17 November 2012 - 08:29 AM.

  • 0

If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#113 taxi

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 10:12 AM

You really do not know much about history do you

The Siege of Jerusalem was part of a military conflict which took place in the year 637 between the Byzantine Empire and the Rashidun Caliphate. It began when the Rashidun army, under the command of Abu Ubaidah, besieged Jerusalem in November 636. After six months, the Patriarch Sophronius agreed to surrender, on condition that he submit only to the Rashidun caliph. In April 637, Caliph Umar traveled to Jerusalem in person to receive the submission of the city.
The Muslim conquest of the city solidified Saracen control over Palestine, control which would not again be threatened until the First Crusade in the late 11th century. Thus, it came to be regarded as a holy site by Islam, as well as by Christianity and Judaism. This stabilized control of Palestina Prima. In 613, the Jewish revolt against the Byzantine Heraclius culminated with the conquest of Jerusalem in 614 by Persian and Jewish forces and establishment of Jewish autonomy. The revolt ended with the departure of the Persians and an eventual massacre of the Jews in 629 by the Byzantines ending 15 years of Jewish autonomy.
Following the Muslim conquest of Jerusalem, Jews were once again allowed to live and practice their religion with more freedom in Jerusalem, 8 years after their massacre by the Byzantines and nearly 500 years after their expulsion from Judea by the Roman Empire.[2] It also resulted in the Covenant of Umar in 637, that outlines the rights and the restrictions of Christians and Jews under Muslim rule, conferring on them the status of dhimmis.

As you can see when the muslims first conquered jerusalem , they let the jews keep their religion , their commerce , they even let them keep their temple ,{which is a sacred place to islam }, and built their temple close by .
Back then islam was an enlightened religion .


Well golly gee...Maybe the Israelis should totally ignore the massacres, depositions of property, anti-Jewish riots, pogroms, special tax rates, etc etc they have experienced at the hands of muslims for the last 1300 years or so and just submit to muslim rule. Your own article says the jews were made Dhimmi. Take a look at what that means.There are currently what...25 muslim/arab countries in the middle east. How many of them have functioning democracies with rights for minorities? How many of them have perpetrated massive massacres agaisnt minority populations? Do you honestly think it's the Jews who've started this entirely? If it wasn't for them everyone in the middle east would just be living in state of equality?
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#114 Dazzle

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 11:39 AM

World Peace ain't happening.

I don't like the fact that the United Nations just stands idly pat because some of its members are closely aligned with Israel. The United Nations are meant to represent all countries. This is why the United Nations is a failed organization.
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Posted Image --> THANKS EGATTI.

I have to say Dazzle's was the coolest. ROTFLOL


#115 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 12:45 PM

The year I had in mind was 1967 or 1948. But I suppose if you want to dig far enough you may find some small detail somewhere... Such as the year 637. During the Jurassic period I also do believe that no Jews were under threat :P


To learn off other people's mistakes is one of the best waysi know of learning not how to make those same mistakes yourself .

If you study history , you will see that humans beings are like the village idiot , they keep on making the same mistakes , over , and over and over again :sadno:
  • 0

The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#116 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 12:58 PM

Well golly gee...Maybe the Israelis should totally ignore the massacres, depositions of property, anti-Jewish riots, pogroms, special tax rates, etc etc they have experienced at the hands of muslims for the last 1300 years or so and just submit to muslim rule. Your own article says the jews were made Dhimmi. Take a look at what that means.There are currently what...25 muslim/arab countries in the middle east. How many of them have functioning democracies with rights for minorities? How many of them have perpetrated massive massacres agaisnt minority populations? Do you honestly think it's the Jews who've started this entirely? If it wasn't for them everyone in the middle east would just be living in state of equality?


What i know is that the israeli's are the people who came to palestine , and drove out many of the people who were already living there , using fear and terror to do so .

I know that the PLO, hamas and hezbollah, have retaliated using fear and terror as well and i condemn them all , human filth is what all terrorists are .

This is a song i listen to every day , it was written by Fat mike Burkett , who is a jew , and a man i admire greatly .

72 Virgins {will never stop a war }

Edited by The Ratiocinator, 17 November 2012 - 12:59 PM.

  • 0

The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#117 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 01:15 PM

AS IT HAPPENS: Israel, Hamas trade blows in bloody Gaza conflict
  • From: News Limited Network
  • November 18, 2012 6:45AM
DFAT travel advice: JUST DON'T GO




Smoke rises during an explosion from an Israeli forces strike in Gaza City. Israel bombarded the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip with nearly 200 airstrikes early Saturday, the military said, widening a blistering assault on Gaza rocket operations. Picture: Hatem Moussem








Recommended Coverage




Posted Image


Waiting for the sky to fall in Tel Aviv

THE only thing on people's minds yesterday morning in Tel Aviv was when the next attack might come.


Posted Image


Israeli air strike kills Hamas leader



Posted Image


In Tel Aviv as air raid sirens ring out

SPECIAL REPORT: THE orange streaks raced upwards. Six of them. In volleys of two.


Posted Image


Israeli airstrikes on Gaza Strip






Egyptian PM denounces Gaza bombardment






Israel bombs Gaza's Interior Ministry


End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar.

THE Middle East is once again at flashpoint, as Israel and Hamas trade bloody body blows in Gaza and Tel Aviv.
6:40am: Four Palestinians were killed in new Israeli air strikes on central Gaza, raising the death toll from 72 hours of raids to 44, the emergency services said.
A statement first announced two deaths in a strike on Deir al-Balah, then added an additional two deaths in a strike on the Masdar area, also in central Gaza. There were no immediate details on whether the four were civilians or militants.
At least four people were injured in the strike in Deir al-Balah, which followed multiple strikes during the day that killed 10 Palestinians, eight of them militants.
The statement added that at least two Palestinians were in critical condition after an air strike on their car in the Zeitun neighbourhood of Gaza City, adding that another two were also in serious condition after a strike on a motorbike in Khan Yunis, in central Gaza.

Nine Israelis including four soldiers were hurt by rocket fire, medics said.
The bloodshed raised to 44 the total number of Palestinians killed in just over 72 hours of Israeli air strikes, while another 393 were injured, Gaza's emergency services said.
Over the same period, three Israelis have been killed by rockets and another 18 injured, 10 of them soldiers, police and the army said.
6:20am: Hundred of protesters have demonstrated near the Israeli embassy in London, waving placards and chanting slogans like "From London to Ramallah organise the intifada".
Speakers on a podium condemned the British government after Foreign Secretary William Hague said the Hamas regime running the Gaza Strip bore "principal responsibility" for the escalation of violence.
The rally was called by the left-wing Stop the War Coalition, the Palestine Solidarity Campaign (PSC) and the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament.
"We are insisting that the British government uphold international law and human rights and tells Israel to end its war now," PSC director Sarah Colborne said. "It's very clear what is happening here: Gaza is under siege, Israel started this by assassinating the person who was trying to negotiate a long-term truce with Israel," she said.
5:50am: The Guardian's Glenn Greenwald's writes here about why the US can't pretend it is not involved in the dispute.
A central premise of US media coverage of the Israeli attack on Gaza - beyond the claim that Israel is justifiably "defending itself" - is that this is some endless conflict between two foreign entitles, and Americans can simply sit by helplessly and lament the tragedy of it all.
The reality is precisely the opposite: Israeli aggression is possible only because of direct, affirmative, unstinting US diplomatic, financial and military support for Israel and everything it does.
This self-flattering depiction of the US as uninvolved, neutral party is the worst media fiction since TV news personalities covered the Arab Spring by pretending that the US is and long has been on the side of the heroic democratic protesters, rather than the key force that spent decades propping up the tyrannies they were fighting.
  • 0

The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#118 Mr. Ambien

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 01:39 PM

http://www.ustream.t...pillar-of-cloud

Harry Fear's livestream, he's been updating news from Gaza City (edit: at posting this he's updating on recent deaths), I've heard a few explosions in the background, and I also saw him doing a live webcast interview on a second computer with CBC a few hours ago which aired minutes ago on CBC.

Edited by zaibatsu, 17 November 2012 - 01:42 PM.

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#119 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 01:44 PM

Anonymous Hackers Hit Israeli Sites In Retaliation For Gaza Attacks




Posted Image
A screenshot from an Israeli site defaced by Anonymous hackers.
As the Israeli army rains shells on the Gaza strip Thursday, it’s also gone on the offensive online, posting videos of its attacks on Hamas targets and live-tweeting its campaign. Now the hacker group Anonymous has responded with a digital bombardment of its own.
In a series of attacks it’s calling “OpIsrael,” Anonymous went on a spree of website defacement and takedown attacks Thursday, calling on members to flood forty sites with junk web traffic designed to knock them offline and defacing websites including the privacy firm Israeli Security Academy and a blog the group described as belonging to the Israeli Defense Forces. “We Anonymous will not sit back and watch a cowardly Zionist State demolish innocent people’s lives.” reads one message posted to a defaced site, along with an image of smoke rising over what appears to be a Palestinian city.
Move down
Posted Image Israel Live-Blogs and Tweets Attack on Hamas, Uploads Killing To YouTube Posted ImageKashmir HillForbes Staff
Posted Image Meet Telecomix, The Hackers Bent On Exposing Those Who Censor And Surveil The Internet Posted ImageAndy GreenbergForbes Staff
Perhaps a bit hyperbolically, the message added, “We have taken down your top security and surveillance website.”
Another message on a hacked site attributes the attack to Pakistani Anonymous hackers: “The people of Pakistan are always supporting the brave people of Gaza, we love you!”
Anonymous Twitter accounts provided links to what they described as an Anonymous Gaza Care Package with tools for staying online if Israel cuts Internet service the Gaza Strip during its military action. Another hacker group, Telecomix, provided its own detailed instructions in English and Arabic for using dial-up connections, a technique it first suggested during the Egyptian Internet outage surrounding the Arab Spring protests there last year.
“To the people of Gaza and the “Occupied Territories”, know that Anonymous stands with you in this fight,” reads a press statement from the hacker group. “We will do everything in our power to hinder the evil forces of the IDF arrayed against you. We will use all our resources to make certain you stay connected to the Internet and remain able to transmit your experiences to the world.”
Gazan and Israeli forces have traded volleys of fire over the last day, inflicting damage on both military and civilian targets. By CNN’s latest count, three Israelis and 13 Palestinians had died as a result of the conflict.
Anonymous’ attacks, as usual, achieve more as propaganda than in actual damage. Most of its target sites seem to have remained online, and several downed and defaced sites seemed like random low-hanging fruit: A manufacturing an export company and a real estate law firm, for instance.
But the online attacks draw attention to the Gazan side of an information war in which Israel has been unusually aggressive: In the days leading up to its attack, the official Israeli Defense Force twitter feed has provided a constant stream of messages about its offensive in the region as well as Israeli civilian and military casualties caused by Hamas rockets fired from Gaza. Its tweets have linked to aerial videos posted to YouTube, showing the assassination of a Hamas leader and the bombing of what the IDF described as a “rocket warehouse.” By the IDF feed’s latest count, it had attacked 250 terrorist sites in retaliation for 274 rockets launched from Gaza, in addition to 105 intercepted by its “Iron Dome” missile defense system.
In one message, a popular Anonymous account offered its gratitude to the IDF for riling so many hackers with its public tweets about the conflict. “We may need to thank [the IDF twitter account],” the message read. “You bonded a lot of Anons together again. Gaining Momentum.”

Edited by The Ratiocinator, 17 November 2012 - 01:44 PM.

  • 0

The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#120 Special Ed

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 01:46 PM

^ greenwald pointing out the obvious. And yet fails to mention the similar support that Hamas gets to continue their aggression. I think the US support is quite obvious and the article is just grasping straws. israel needs to complete a ground offensive and extend the range from which missiles can be fired at them. That's what I think happens next.

Israel is rightfully defending itself. Hamas should be completely pushed from the region and any steps taken to prevent further missile attacks on Israel. Civilian casualties are all because of Hamas as far as I'm concerned.

Edited by Special Ed, 17 November 2012 - 01:50 PM.

  • 0

If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.





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